The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Is Romanov really a “key to the Habs’ future?” Isn’t he more of a #3-4 defenceman? Suzuki, yes - 100%. Him and Caufield. And both are having troubling seasons, given the weight of expectations they carry for the future of the franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Is Romanov really a “key to the Habs’ future?” Isn’t he more of a #3-4 defenceman? Suzuki, yes - 100%. Him and Caufield. And both are having troubling seasons, given the weight of expectations they carry for the future of the franchise. This is a snippet from Wheeler's evaluation of Caufield: Quote There develops a need among fans, as hype builds for a prospect as it did for Caufield, for instant gratification. While most kids are provided with the benefit of time and patience, the best among them are expected to produce immediately and eventually change the fates of their organizations. So, when the most gifted natural goal-scoring prospect in the game shoots one percent for half a season, I understand the urge to panic. But Caufield’s not going to shoot 1 percent forever, eventually he’s going to play 17-18 minutes a night instead of 13-14 minutes a night, and eventually he’s going to be surrounded by more talent. And if I’m being blunt, I’m not worried about his projection or his tools. This season is not nothing in the context of where he’s at and what he’ll become. But given the context of where the Canadiens are at, and the undeniably bad luck he has had, I’m not worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Is Romanov really a “key to the Habs’ future?” Isn’t he more of a #3-4 defenceman? Suzuki, yes - 100%. Him and Caufield. And both are having troubling seasons, given the weight of expectations they carry for the future of the franchise. Is Romanov a primary core guy? Probably not but I'd say it's fair to call him an important building block for the future. Montreal has plenty of prospect depth but how many are projected to be better than that second-pairing role you mentioned? Guhle maybe (he could be a 3/4 as well) and Mailloux is a huge maybe. That's about it. There are lots of others with NHL potential but most project as 4-6 on a depth chart which is a tier below Romanov. If Romanov can play ~20 minutes a night, that's a pretty important piece to have, especially with him under team control for four more years. If he's not a key guy, he's just a small bit below that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Should Lehkonen be traded? Just 26 and every team needs a couple guys like him, dont think a 2nd pick would be worth it, but will teams willing to pay more for his services? Toffolli, Hoffman, Byron, Gallagher, or Armia i would have no 2nd thoughts dealing away today. But; Dvorak/Lehkonen would like to see stay, barring great offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Just now, DON said: Should Lehkonen be traded? Just 26 and every team needs a couple guys like him, dont think a 2nd pick would be worth it, but will teams willing to pay more for his services? Some expert on Vancouver radio was saying that a first rounder could be in play for him. Seems surprising to me, but his underlying metrics are apparently outstanding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Some expert on Vancouver radio was saying that a first rounder could be in play for him. Seems surprising to me, but his underlying metrics are apparently outstanding... A 1st sound good, but if is a contender it may be pick #30-32, which odds of a NHL career are just 30% or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan89 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, DON said: A 1st sound good, but if is a contender it may be pick #30-32, which odds of a NHL career are just 30% or so. Yeah but you can always use that late pick to move up in the draft if a player you like is their. Or in a daft day trade for someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 13 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said: Yeah but you can always use that late pick to move up in the draft if a player you like is their. Or in a daft day trade for someone. But is a late 1st (28-32) much more value to trade on draft day, than the high 2nd (they will have already pick 33-35)) and just keep Lehkonen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 22 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Some expert on Vancouver radio was saying that a first rounder could be in play for him. Seems surprising to me, but his underlying metrics are apparently outstanding... It also seems surprising to me but there is no doubt that his skating ability, defensive diligence and work ethic are highly valued by contending teams. A late 2nd round pick doesn't seem enough but a late 1st round pick seems like a very very good return. If he had a scoring touch we likely wouldn't even be discussing trading him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, DON said: But is a late 1st (28-32) much more value to trade on draft day, than the high 2nd (they will have already pick 33-35)) and just keep Lehkonen. The more picks the better. If they could get a first then I make the trade. I wouldn't trade him for a 2nd round pick as you are unlikely to get a player as good as Lehkonen in the 2nd. He is actually the Habs 4th leading scorer right now (soon to be 3rd). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: It also seems surprising to me but there is no doubt that his skating ability, defensive diligence and work ethic are highly valued by contending teams. A late 2nd round pick doesn't seem enough but a late 1st round pick seems like a very very good return. If he had a scoring touch we likely wouldn't even be discussing trading him. He's actually second on the Habs at even strength (adjusted for TOI). We have many players with subpar performance but he's still credible. Plus a super work ethic, and sets a great example for the kids. Points/60 minutes 5-on-5: Drouin 2.17 Lehkonen 2.00 Pezzetta 1.68 Anderson 1.48 Dvorak 1.38 (Actually he's at 2.14 now. That's 85th in the NHL for forwards.) I wouldn't trade him for a late first, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 What can you get in the late 1st round? Here are the last 10 picks in the 2015 draft, for example. Would you really want to have a random player from this group for Lehkonen? Only six of them played more than a season in the NHL, and only two played more than four seasons. And, no, you can't cherry-pick and say that of course we'd pick Konecny. 10 teams all picked what they thought was the best option, and this shows the low odds of getting a regular NHL player even late in the first. 1 21 Ottawa Colin White C U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 200 33 55 88 87 2020-21 1 22 Washington Ilya Samsonov G Magnitogorsk-2 (Russia Jrs.) 69 0 1 1 2 2021-22 1 23 Vancouver Brock Boeser R Waterloo Black Hawks [USHL] 293 110 124 234 78 2021-22 1 24 Philadelphia Travis Konecny R Ottawa 67's [OHL] 392 102 142 244 225 2021-22 1 25 Winnipeg Jack Roslovic C U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 270 45 74 119 34 2021-22 1 26 Montreal Noah Juulsen D Everett Silvertips [WHL] 53 2 6 8 10 2021-22 1 27 Anaheim Jacob Larsson D Frolunda Jrs. (Sweden) 165 3 21 24 46 2021-22 1 28 NY Islanders Anthony Beauvillier L Shawinigan Cataractes [QMJHL] 369 88 82 170 63 2021-22 1 29 Columbus Gabriel Carlsson D Linkopings Jrs. (Sweden) 55 2 9 11 14 2021-22 1 30 Arizona Nick Merkley R Kelowna Rockets [WHL] 41 4 11 15 11 2021-22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, tomh009 said: He's actually second on the Habs at even strength (adjusted for TOI). We have many players with subpar performance but he's still credible. Plus a super work ethic, and sets a great example for the kids. Points/60 minutes 5-on-5: Drouin 2.17 Lehkonen 2.00 Pezzetta 1.68 Anderson 1.48 Dvorak 1.38 (Actually he's at 2.14 now. That's 85th in the NHL for forwards.) I wouldn't trade him for a late first, no. I get why you wouldn't, he is a valuable guy but if he is in demand then you strike while the iron is hot. I do it for a first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 An early first pick is very, very different from a late first, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, tomh009 said: He's actually second on the Habs at even strength (adjusted for TOI). We have many players with subpar performance but he's still credible. Plus a super work ethic, and sets a great example for the kids. Points/60 minutes 5-on-5: Drouin 2.17 Lehkonen 2.00 Pezzetta 1.68 Anderson 1.48 Dvorak 1.38 (Actually he's at 2.14 now. That's 85th in the NHL for forwards.) I wouldn't trade him for a late first, no. Points per 60 is such a misleading stat though.... if you are a third liner who scores a few points, you may rank high there, but if you add more minutes you can't maintain that pace. Its all about are you playing against the other team's top lines, top defenders ... is it a small sample size increasing your metric, etc... Lehkonen is not a top 6 forward. He's a winger, not a centre, not a premium position. He's never been a big scorer, we've seen his whole career, he's good defensively, gets hot offensively from time to time, but he's not a top 6 guy long term. If its for a late second, i want the team to add a prospect too. If its for a first rounder, I'd drive him to the airport (though I'd see if I could get the 2023 first). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, tomh009 said: An early first pick is very, very different from a late first, though. Of course it is. No way you get an early to mid first round pick for him and I am not suggesting you think they will. However this is supposed to be a pretty good draft year and I would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 hours ago, tomh009 said: What can you get in the late 1st round? Here are the last 10 picks in the 2015 draft, for example. Would you really want to have a random player from this group for Lehkonen? Only six of them played more than a season in the NHL, and only two played more than four seasons. And, no, you can't cherry-pick and say that of course we'd pick Konecny. 10 teams all picked what they thought was the best option, and this shows the low odds of getting a regular NHL player even late in the first. 1 21 Ottawa Colin White C U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 200 33 55 88 87 2020-21 1 22 Washington Ilya Samsonov G Magnitogorsk-2 (Russia Jrs.) 69 0 1 1 2 2021-22 1 23 Vancouver Brock Boeser R Waterloo Black Hawks [USHL] 293 110 124 234 78 2021-22 1 24 Philadelphia Travis Konecny R Ottawa 67's [OHL] 392 102 142 244 225 2021-22 1 25 Winnipeg Jack Roslovic C U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 270 45 74 119 34 2021-22 1 26 Montreal Noah Juulsen D Everett Silvertips [WHL] 53 2 6 8 10 2021-22 1 27 Anaheim Jacob Larsson D Frolunda Jrs. (Sweden) 165 3 21 24 46 2021-22 1 28 NY Islanders Anthony Beauvillier L Shawinigan Cataractes [QMJHL] 369 88 82 170 63 2021-22 1 29 Columbus Gabriel Carlsson D Linkopings Jrs. (Sweden) 55 2 9 11 14 2021-22 1 30 Arizona Nick Merkley R Kelowna Rockets [WHL] 41 4 11 15 11 2021-22 I would maybe pick Boeser if I was cherry picking, Beauvillier has been pretty good, Roslovic had a pretty decent year last year, Colin White has shown flashes of being a good player, of course we know Juulsen had terrible luck with injuries, Larsson has played a number of games in the NHL. Carlsson has played 18 games for Columbus this year. It's not a terrible grouping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Habsfan89 said: Yeah but you can always use that late pick to move up in the draft if a player you like is their. Or in a daft day trade for someone. Agreed. A 1st round pick is good currency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: Agreed. A 1st round pick is good currency. He could easily be traded in the Summer, or next March. No hurry, is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 1 hour ago, DON said: He could easily be traded in the Summer, or next March. No hurry, is there? In my opinion if you get the right offer you jump all over it and Lehkonen is more likely to be highly valued by playoff bound teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanfan Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 11 hours ago, DON said: He could easily be traded in the Summer, or next March. No hurry, is there? Wise words. Take away the question mark and say the last sentence in your best Yoda voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 In the end, for any player, it's a question of what's on offer vs what is the expected value of the player in question to the team. If all we wanted was to maximize the number first-round picks, we could trade Suzuki, Caufield and Romanov, but then it really becomes a scorched-earth rebuild, and I don't expect that's what Hughes is planning. If he has a shorter rebuild/retool/reset/reload cycle in mind, the question will be which of the current players he wants to be part of the team at the end of that rebuild. Those players, be it Romanov or Toffoli, Anderson or Lehkonen, will either be retained, or at least only traded if another team is willing to pay a significant premium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 20 hours ago, dlbalr said: Is Romanov a primary core guy? Probably not but I'd say it's fair to call him an important building block for the future. Montreal has plenty of prospect depth but how many are projected to be better than that second-pairing role you mentioned? Guhle maybe (he could be a 3/4 as well) and Mailloux is a huge maybe. That's about it. There are lots of others with NHL potential but most project as 4-6 on a depth chart which is a tier below Romanov. If Romanov can play ~20 minutes a night, that's a pretty important piece to have, especially with him under team control for four more years. If he's not a key guy, he's just a small bit below that. A well-reasoned post, as always. To some degree, I’m just quibbling, because I agree that a quality second-pairing defenceman is a valuable commodity. But part of what you’re saying is that Romanov has value because he’s basically the ONLY d-man in the system who clearly projects to be top-4. In other words, he’s a “key to the future” in an organization which is pretty pathetic in terms of impact prospects. Nonetheless, yes - I like Romanov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 13 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: In my opinion if you get the right offer you jump all over it and Lehkonen is more likely to be highly valued by playoff bound teams. I simply dont see any hurry to off-load him, unless (of course) Habs cant afford to re-sign him, or get an offer...they cant refuse. We all want more picks-prospects for obvious rebuild to happen, but still need NHL calibre guys next year as this isnt gonna be a quick fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 3 hours ago, DON said: I simply dont see any hurry to off-load him, unless (of course) Habs cant afford to re-sign him, or get an offer...they cant refuse. We all want more picks-prospects for obvious rebuild to happen, but still need NHL calibre guys next year as this isnt gonna be a quick fix. There is zero hurry to unload Lehkonen. Just saying that if a Stanley Cup contender is willing to give a 1st round pick then you grab it. We won't get a 1st round pick for him in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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