Neech Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, Commandant said: Apparently some teams have carlsson over fantilli. I dont but its possible. Columbus is likely to take a centre at 3. I think thats whoever is left between fantilli and carlsson. The question is San Jose. Do they take him? I'm hoping one of these American teams talks themselves into Smith over Michkov or Carlsson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, DON said: Better than Hoffman, or expect similar? I think you can teach an 18 year old forward the defensive side of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 8 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I think you can teach an 18 year old forward the defensive side of the game. But that is also what GMs/coaches thought about Mike Hoffman.😉 Much has to do with the player being willing to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 hour ago, GHT120 said: But that is also what GMs/coaches thought about Mike Hoffman.😉 Much has to do with the player being willing to learn. Hull would brag "they dont pay me to backcheck". But, when your offense make sup for it... How much offense will Michkov have in him? https://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1984/84117.html Brett Hull Selected in sixth roundNo. 117 overall by Calgary Flames Born August 9, 1964 Position: Right WingHeight: 5-11 Weight: 190 BEFORE THE DRAFT Last Team: Penticton (BCHL) Birthplace: Belleville, Ontario (Canada)Hometown: West Vancouver, British Columbia PRE-DRAFT STATISTICS Year Team League GP G A TP PIM 1982-83 Penticton BCJHL 50 48 56 104 27 1983-84 Penticton BCJHL 56 105 83 188 20 PRE-DRAFT AWARDS AND HONORS BCJHL Records: Most points in one season (188 for Penticton in 1983-84), most goals in one season (105 for Penticton in 1983-84)BCJHL Points Leader: 1983-84 (Penticton) (188 points)BCJHL Goals Leader: 1983-84 (Penticton) (105 goals)Miscellaneous: Not selected in 1982 or 1983 NHL drafts despite being eligible both years. ... Lived in Chicago until he was six years old, while his father was still playing for Black Hawks. ... Moved to Winnipeg with his family in 1972 after Bobby Hull signed with WHA Jets. ... Moved to Vancouver area in 1978 after his parents divorced. ... Weighed as much as 220 during his BCJHL career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 The idea that we wouldn’t draft an offensive phenom because he “won’t back check” - 🙄 I would hope HuGo know better than that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 12 hours ago, DON said: Better than Hoffman, or expect similar? Right now it would be worse than Hoffman. That said he's 18 years old. This is a player who (like most elite players) hasn't learned a lot of defence. When a kid like this is playing against his peers growing up, he isn't forced to learn to play a defensive game, cause whenever he is on the ice, his team is on the attack and has the puck. Then, at 17 you throw him in the deep end of the pool so to speak, by having him play against men in the KHL, and he's the weakest (physically, muscle wise) player on the ice. He's gonna get pushed around in his end of the ice and struggle a bit. So he's got to both bulk up and get physically stronger, as well as learn the defensive side of the game. This is possible, and its a lot easier to teach defence than to take a good defensive player and teach him to score like Michkov can. Its a matter of seeing how much you can teach him and how good he can get. It will take some time. That said, a player like Lehkonen wasn't good defensively at 18 playing against men either. So its something that a young player can learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 3 hours ago, GHT120 said: But that is also what GMs/coaches thought about Mike Hoffman.😉 Much has to do with the player being willing to learn. Of course they have to be willing to learn. My point being is that you are not going to pass on a phenomenal offensive talent because they don't have a well developed defensive game at 18 years old. Some things can be learned, some can't. Michkov can do things that can't be taught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 40 minutes ago, Commandant said: That said, a player like Lehkonen wasn't good defensively at 18 playing against men either. So its something that a young player can learn. Good god, is there a Finn who isnt responsible defensively vs most Russian scorers who typically not big on defending nor would ever challenge Bergeron or anyone for the Selke? Datsyuk or Fedorov are about it arnt they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 https://www.habsworld.net/2023/05/2023-draft-profile-leo-carlsson/ Cant see Carlsson being there at 5, but one can dream. "He was far more comfortable playing in the elite league this season where he scored 25 points in 44 games, before taking over in the playoffs with nine points in 13 games." Tantalizing numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted June 1, 2023 Author Share Posted June 1, 2023 38 minutes ago, DON said: https://www.habsworld.net/2023/05/2023-draft-profile-leo-carlsson/ Cant see Carlsson being there at 5, but one can dream. "He was far more comfortable playing in the elite league this season where he scored 25 points in 44 games, before taking over in the playoffs with nine points in 13 games." Tantalizing numbers. It is a dream, I would love to see the Habs get Carlsson, I am no scout but a very slight chance at 5, might be the perfect compliment to Suzuki, Habs would be set at center for a long time. All it might take is one of the American teams to fall in love with the American guy (Smith). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 NHL combine next week https://www.nhl.com/news/2023-draft-connor-bedard-to-be-in-spotlight-at-nhl-scouting-combine/c-344666024?tid=277764372 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: It is a dream, I would love to see the Habs get Carlsson, I am no scout but a very slight chance at 5, might be the perfect compliment to Suzuki, Habs would be set at center for a long time. All it might take is one of the American teams to fall in love with the American guy (Smith). Yes, it would take Smith going to Columbus and then San Jose wanting Michkov or a defenceman. Habs haven't had a star player from Sweden in a long, long time... probably Naslund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Commandant said: Habs haven't had a star player from Sweden in a long, long time... probably Naslund. I was trying to think of the best Swedish Hab in my fandom (roughly this millenium) and drew a blank. Freakin Crankshaft?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 9 hours ago, Neech said: I was trying to think of the best Swedish Hab in my fandom (roughly this millenium) and drew a blank. Freakin Crankshaft?? Naslund, the last top ten scoring Hab...sad to say how long ago that was. An elite 1st team All-Star Hab forward is long overdue. Bit on the 80s Habs drafting. https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-using-draft-open-next-contender-window/ Yet the 1984 Draft is where then-GM Serge Savard truly opened his Cup window. The top four picks in this draft all played over 1,000 games. There is a two-time 50-goal scorer, a Hall of Fame goaltender, and two All-Star quality players. This draft is still to this day, the greatest draft class for the Canadiens in the modern era. Draft Position Name Position GP G A Pts PIM 5 Petr Svoboda Defence 1,028 58 341 399 1,605 8 Shayne Corson Left Wing 1,156 273 420 693 2,357 29 Stephane Richer Left Wing 1,054 421 398 819 614 51 Patrick Roy Goaltender 1,029 0 45 45 262 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 12 hours ago, Neech said: I was trying to think of the best Swedish Hab in my fandom (roughly this millenium) and drew a blank. Freakin Crankshaft?? For me it's Andreas Dackell who was a decent bottom-six winger for a few years but Murray's on the shortlist. Back in 2020, we did a reader poll for best lineup by each country and Murray made it. https://www.habsworld.net/2020/05/montreals-top-all-time-swedish-line/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 3 hours ago, DON said: Naslund, the last top ten scoring Hab...sad to say how long ago that was. An elite 1st team All-Star Hab forward is long overdue. Bit on the 80s Habs drafting. https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-using-draft-open-next-contender-window/ Yet the 1984 Draft is where then-GM Serge Savard truly opened his Cup window. The top four picks in this draft all played over 1,000 games. There is a two-time 50-goal scorer, a Hall of Fame goaltender, and two All-Star quality players. This draft is still to this day, the greatest draft class for the Canadiens in the modern era. Draft Position Name Position GP G A Pts PIM 5 Petr Svoboda Defence 1,028 58 341 399 1,605 8 Shayne Corson Left Wing 1,156 273 420 693 2,357 29 Stephane Richer Left Wing 1,054 421 398 819 614 51 Patrick Roy Goaltender 1,029 0 45 45 262 Yes, my friends and I used to comment on how much Serge Savard owed to that miracle draft year, back in my Montreal days! Good call, Don. Gainey had a minor version of this in 2007, with McDounagh, Patches, and Subban all being picked in the same year. One thing I notice with 1984 is that the Habs had two picks in the top-10. I wonder how they pulled that off? These days that would be accompanied by enormous excitement and frenzied internet anticipation. Back then it was hardly noticed, LOL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: ... I wonder how they pulled that off? ... Google is great ... all praise Google Canadiens - Traded • Pierre Larouche • 1984 first round pick (#11-Sylvain Cote) • 1985 third round pick (#58-Bruce Racine) to Whalers for • 1984 first round pick (#5-Petr Svoboda) • 1984 second round pick (#26-Brian Benning) • 1985 third round pick (#47-Rocky Dundas) on 1981-12-21Canadiens - Traded • Rick Wamsley • 1984 second round pick (#26-Brian Benning) • 1984 second round pick (#32-Tony Hrkac) • 1984 third round pick (#53-Robert Dirk) to Blues for • 1984 first round pick (#8-Shayne Corson) • 1984 second round pick (#29-Stephane Richer) on 1984-06-09 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Wonder what would actually take to get San Jose or Columbus to consider dropping back a spot or two? Wonder what track record of teams is when trading up? Has it been typically worthwhile, or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 4 hours ago, GHT120 said: Google is great ... all praise Google Canadiens - Traded • Pierre Larouche • 1984 first round pick (#11-Sylvain Cote) • 1985 third round pick (#58-Bruce Racine) to Whalers for • 1984 first round pick (#5-Petr Svoboda) • 1984 second round pick (#26-Brian Benning) • 1985 third round pick (#47-Rocky Dundas) on 1981-12-21Canadiens - Traded • Rick Wamsley • 1984 second round pick (#26-Brian Benning) • 1984 second round pick (#32-Tony Hrkac) • 1984 third round pick (#53-Robert Dirk) to Blues for • 1984 first round pick (#8-Shayne Corson) • 1984 second round pick (#29-Stephane Richer) on 1984-06-09 Nice work, GHT (obvious the 'G' stands for 'Google'). The first trade (Larouche) would have been made by the much-maligned Irving Grundman. Oh, for the days when the Habs could trade 50-goal scorers and not feel mortally wounded by it. The second trade would have been by Serge Savard himself - helping to set himself up nicely for some serious contenders from 1986-1994. He later flipped Corson and the now-forgotten Brent Gilchrist for Vinny Damphousse, in yet another savvy bit of GMing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 4 hours ago, DON said: Wonder what would actually take to get San Jose or Columbus to consider dropping back a spot or two? Wonder what track record of teams is when trading up? Has it been typically worthwhile, or not? It hasn't been done in so long, like 2008, that its impossible to say what the price would be and whether it would be worth it. The last time was the Leafs and Isles and I think that was like a 3rd and 4th to move from 5 to 8. Moving to a top 2 or 3 pick, you are looking at drafts prior to the 2005 lockout and I don't think we can use anything from that era as a reliable precedent for today. Pre-cap is a different world in managing a franchise vs today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 28 minutes ago, Commandant said: It hasn't been done in so long, like 2008, that its impossible to say what the price would be and whether it would be worth it. The last time was the Leafs and Isles and I think that was like a 3rd and 4th to move from 5 to 8. Moving to a top 2 or 3 pick, you are looking at drafts prior to the 2005 lockout and I don't think we can use anything from that era as a reliable precedent for today. Pre-cap is a different world in managing a franchise vs today. So .............. maybe Hoffman and Gallagher would do it? ? ? ? ? KIDDING ....... or dreaming ...... or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 Rumours, rumblings, what have you, are that this kid may be high on Habs list. https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/ryan-leonard-2023-nhl-draft-prospect-profile-scouting-report-rankings-stats-analytics/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 https://theathletic.com/4538998/2023/05/30/nhl-draft-rankings-2023-bedard-pronman/ Interesting sortable ranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 12 minutes ago, DON said: https://theathletic.com/4538998/2023/05/30/nhl-draft-rankings-2023-bedard-pronman/ Interesting sortable ranking. Based on talent/potential ... not draft order ... think it is consistent with what I recall hearing all along ... except perhaps that 2/3 were often reversed ... for the most part, Michkov's talent has not been at issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 Will Smith, folks seem to like him. 5th sees about bang on. I get impression that Carlsson or Michkov likely better options, but Smith's offense seems pretty darn good as well and assume an obvious choice if Carlsson and Michkov both gone. https://www.habsworld.net/2023/06/2023-draft-profile-will-smith/ Ranked #5 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING Ranked #9 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM Ranked #6 by FCHOCKEY Ranked #6 by DAILY FACEOFF Ranked #5 by THE HOCKEY NEWS Ranked #6 by TSN/BOB McKENZIE Ranked #4 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY Ranked #6 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTON Ranked #3 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (NA Skaters) Ranked #4 by SPORTSNET Ranked #5 by RECRUIT SCOUTING Ranked #7 by DOBBERPROSPECTS Ranked #5 by DRAFT PROSPECTS HOCKEY Ranked #6 by SMAHT SCOUTING Makes my brain hurt trying to figure out conditions of Flames 1st rounder; Montreal Canadiens Acquire: Sean Monahan 2025 1st round pick (CGY) [Conditional]* *Conditions: 1. If CGY’s 2024 1st round pick is between 20 and 32, MTL can take that pick instead. Result: TBD Scenario: In the event CGY receives FLA’s 2025 1st round pick: 1. If both CGY AND FLA’s picks are NOT top 10, MTL will receive the better of the CGY and FLA 2025 1st round picks. Result: TBD 2. If CGY’s pick is top 10, AND FLA’s pick is NOT top 10, MTL receives FLA’s pick. Result: TBD Scenario: In the event CGY does NOT receive FLA’s 1st round pick: Sub-scenario: CGY’s pick is NOT top 10 1. MTL will receive the CGY pick, and 2. If FLA’s pick is not top 10, is a better pick than CGY’s, and was transferred to another team due to prior conditions, MTL will also receive CGY’s 2025 4th round pick. Result: TBD Sub-scenario: CGY’s pick is top 10: 1. If CGY’s pick is 1st overall, MTL will receive CGY’s 2025 3rd, and the better of CGY and FLA’s 2026 1st round pick. Result: TBD 2. If CGY’s pick is 2nd to 10th, MTL receives CGY’s 2025 1st round pick. Result: TBD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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