2023-24 Montreal Canadiens Discussion Thread

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

I think it's wrong to make the assumption that MSL is not good at working with veterans.  MSL was a veteran player once too so I think he has a pretty good understanding of what veterans go through.  I think Petry loved playing for Marty after playing for DD. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

6 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I think it's wrong to make the assumption that MSL is not good at working with veterans.  MSL was a veteran player once too so I think he has a pretty good understanding of what veterans go through.  I think Petry loved playing for Marty after playing for DD. 

Anderson gets lots of ice time no matter what he does. I’m not sure why Marty treats him this way. He doesn’t seem to have a problem playing vets on the 4th line so I don’t know what to think. 
 

The Anderson problem will be solved before next season anyway. Hughes is going to get that top 6 winger and Anderson will become irrelevant 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

4 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

The Anderson problem will be solved before next season anyway. Hughes is going to get that top 6 winger and Anderson will become irrelevant 

 

I don't look at Anderson as being a problem that needs to be solved, he just needs to play better. His salary makes him difficult to trade. If he can get back to his usual type season (ie. 20 goals, 30 points and playing physical) then he is doing about the most we can expect. Whether he does that on the 2nd or 3rd line doesn't matter. 

 

Having 3 goalies is a problem that needs to be solved. Getting secondary scoring is a problem that needs to be solved although a healthy Dach could help that a lot. 

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

Which veterans (besides Anderson) do you think have suffered from St-Louis coaching? I think Monahan, Matheson, Armia, Kovacevic have all benefited, I think. Savard seems no worse. Gallagher and Pearson?

 

Yup... 

 

Gallagher and Pearson fell off before MSL came around.  Its not a coaching issue with either 

 

 

[GHT120]

18 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Hughes is going to get that top 6 winger and Anderson will become irrelevant 

Except on the cap

 

9 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

Whether he does that on the 2nd or 3rd line doesn't matter.

It does ... a second line should be a cohesive unit ... they can live with a "solo-act" on the third line if they have to.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

15 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I don't look at Anderson as being a problem that needs to be solved, he just needs to play better. His salary makes him difficult to trade. If he can get back to his usual type season (ie. 20 goals, 30 points and playing physical) then he is doing about the most we can expect. Whether he does that on the 2nd or 3rd line doesn't matter. 

 

Having 3 goalies is a problem that needs to be solved. Getting secondary scoring is a problem that needs to be solved although a healthy Dach could help that a lot. 

I agree with your post. 
 

I just think Anderson should play a lesser role until he figures it out. 
 

7 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Except on the cap

 

It does ... a second line should be a cohesive unit ... they can live with a "solo-act" on the third line if they have to.

I mean irrelevant in that Anderson would no longer even be considered for top 6 if a strong player is added. 
 

Perhaps Anderson figures it out for next season 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Anderson is a “problem” playing like he is, on the ticket he is.

 

The best hope is probably that he reboots over the summer and comes back as “normal” Josh Anderson - a player I always liked and defended, even with his considerable limitations. That guy has some value. Not the current guy.

[Sir_Boagalott]

23 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

How do you solve a problem like Josh Anderson? It beats me.

 

This doesn't exactly directly solve the Anderson issue but I thinks its related.  I heard an interesting trade rumour the other day and I'm not sure if it was legit or a fan proposal.  At 1st I thought it could be a good idea, but then changed my mind.  Selfishly, I want the Habs to be the next Canadian team to win the Cup.  The Nucks would probably win the Cup if they had Pezzetta.  

 

I believe the Habs primary problem is that they have too many floaters under contract for next year that aren't doing enough.  ex:  Dvo, Armia, Andy, Gally, + Evans.   Pezz isn't a floater but he doesn't put up a lot of points so if he's replaced with somebody who does that would help balance out the under producing floaters.  Most people say Gally needs to go and he's the most expensive so that makes sense but thats the most unlikely outcome.  Basically, the under production of the entire team can be rectified for next year by removing any 2 of their low producing F's and add 2 that get in the high 40's or low 50's in points.  It would make sense to trade Pezz but I'm not sure if the Nucks are the right team.  

 

Ironically, I believe Pezz could be the secret sauce Van needs to win the Cup.  They currently lack a player like that and I'm thinking he could be the type of 4th liner thats needed to win.  A lot of Cup winning teams have a 4th line nobody that gets 2.5+x their regular season production.  ex:  a player that gest 6-12g/82gms but gets 5-7 in 24ish gms in 1 playoffs.  I could see Pezz being that guy.  

 

 

[alfredoh2009]

9 hours ago, tomh009 said:

Which veterans (besides Anderson) do you think have suffered from St-Louis coaching? I think Monahan, Matheson, Armia, Kovacevic have all benefited, I think. Savard seems no worse. Gallagher and Pearson?

god question, I was going off memory after going through the lineups of about half the NHL teams about a month ago. It seems like all teams have "an Ylonen" or "a Gallagher" in their lineups: a prospect that doesn't reach the projected level when drafted, and a veteran under a horrendous contract that just cannot perform anymore to that level.

Evans, Anderson, Dvorak this season (when he played) come to mind. My uneducated perception is that some coaches seem to squeeze some role/performance of players like these by playing them a specific way. Limiting their minutes, rotating them in/out of lineup, better matching their lines against opposition, etc.

Maye I am expecting the genius of a Lemaire when he took over, or  the antagonistic approach of Therrien, or the boring steady hand of Demers, or the methodical approach of Julien. Of course for the most part, they had better line-ups... I am just complaining in a lost season.

 

8 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Savard and Matheson seem to be doing fine ... Monahan was doing fine ... Pearson was doing fine before his injury ... Evans is doing fine for "who/what he is" ...Armia is having his best season since 19/20 ... is MSL expected to just tell Anderson to play his one-man game and not bother with defence ... that hardly is progressing the TEAM in their rebuild.

Matheson is -17 and Savard is -12. THe worst of the Ds. They are the most relied upon, but not among the best in the league

Monahan was slated to e a winger or 3C until Dach went down. Let's say that the situation favored him.

Evans is having a good season by his standards, I agree

Armia, like Anderson, Dvorak, Pearson are the vets that I believe could be handled differently. I said something similar near the trade deadline for players like

Dadonov (12g 11a 23pts 0.46ppg 13:09toi -7)

Drouin (10g 22a 32pts  0.58ppg 17:35toi    -2)

Edmundson (1g 3a 4pts 0.11ppg 16:08toi -4) -> not very good

Hoffman (8g 10a 18pts 0.34ppg 14:16toi -18) -> worse than with MSL

 

I do not miss those players, HughGort made the right moves with them. I am just complaining that there is more that other teams have done with the Habs "rejects" that MSL did and it makes me wonder "why ?"

[alfredoh2009]

2 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

This doesn't exactly directly solve the Anderson issue but I thinks its related.  I heard an interesting trade rumour the other day and I'm not sure if it was legit or a fan proposal.  At 1st I thought it could be a good idea, but then changed my mind.  Selfishly, I want the Habs to be the next Canadian team to win the Cup.  The Nucks would probably win the Cup if they had Pezzetta.  

 

I believe the Habs primary problem is that they have too many floaters under contract for next year that aren't doing enough.  ex:  Dvo, Armia, Andy, Gally, + Evans.   Pezz isn't a floater but he doesn't put up a lot of points so if he's replaced with somebody who does that would help balance out the under producing floaters.  Most people say Gally needs to go and he's the most expensive so that makes sense but thats the most unlikely outcome.  Basically, the under production of the entire team can be rectified for next year by removing any 2 of their low producing F's and add 2 that get in the high 40's or low 50's in points.  It would make sense to trade Pezz but I'm not sure if the Nucks are the right team.  

 

Ironically, I believe Pezz could be the secret sauce Van needs to win the Cup.  They currently lack a player like that and I'm thinking he could be the type of 4th liner thats needed to win.  A lot of Cup winning teams have a 4th line nobody that gets 2.5+x their regular season production.  ex:  a player that gest 6-12g/82gms but gets 5-7 in 24ish gms in 1 playoffs.  I could see Pezz being that guy.  

 

 

 

Pezzetta is not a "heavy weight" but he can stand his ground. He has surprisingly good hands for a 4th liner, as he has shown in shootouts. He is nowhere near as talented as Andrew Shaw but he plays with heart, he makes me think of him.

[GHT120]

6 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... but not among the best in the league ...

How in the world does "doing fine" equate to "best in the league"????

And, of course Savard and Matheson are going to be high +/-, the Habs are not a good defensive team (6th worst in GAA).

 

Your point was "MSL does not know yet how to coach veterans to get their best" ... my point was that that really only seemed to apply the veteran you are excusing from playing poorly ... agree to disagree I guess.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

7 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

 I am just complaining that there is more that other teams have done with the Habs "rejects" that MSL did and it makes me wonder "why ?"

 

Don't forget that many of these players went to contending teams, an opportunity for a fresh start in a different environment (ie. Drouin away from the pressure in Montreal). Petry didn't exactly light it up when he was moved. I think you are looking for things to fit a narrative that just isn't there. 

[Commandant]

27 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Don't forget that many of these players went to contending teams, an opportunity for a fresh start in a different environment (ie. Drouin away from the pressure in Montreal). Petry didn't exactly light it up when he was moved. I think you are looking for things to fit a narrative that just isn't there. 

 

Hes making a narrative against the current coach? Shocking.

[hab29RETIRED]

23 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I always thought of Anderson as a very expensive 3rd line winger that could play up the lineup when hot.

I wonder how well he would play in a line like this:

RHP-Gignac-Anderson

(I know RHP is on ir)

 

just wondering with a speedy center and an energy winger with 3rd-line talent

 

Or, for now:

Pearson-Gignac-Anderson

What had Gignac done to you, that you want to punish him so badly!!

[hab29RETIRED]

11 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

 

This doesn't exactly directly solve the Anderson issue but I thinks its related.  I heard an interesting trade rumour the other day and I'm not sure if it was legit or a fan proposal.  At 1st I thought it could be a good idea, but then changed my mind.  Selfishly, I want the Habs to be the next Canadian team to win the Cup.  The Nucks would probably win the Cup if they had Pezzetta.  

 

I believe the Habs primary problem is that they have too many floaters under contract for next year that aren't doing enough.  ex:  Dvo, Armia, Andy, Gally, + Evans.   Pezz isn't a floater but he doesn't put up a lot of points so if he's replaced with somebody who does that would help balance out the under producing floaters.  Most people say Gally needs to go and he's the most expensive so that makes sense but thats the most unlikely outcome.  Basically, the under production of the entire team can be rectified for next year by removing any 2 of their low producing F's and add 2 that get in the high 40's or low 50's in points.  It would make sense to trade Pezz but I'm not sure if the Nucks are the right team.  

 

Ironically, I believe Pezz could be the secret sauce Van needs to win the Cup.  They currently lack a player like that and I'm thinking he could be the type of 4th liner thats needed to win.  A lot of Cup winning teams have a 4th line nobody that gets 2.5+x their regular season production.  ex:  a player that gest 6-12g/82gms but gets 5-7 in 24ish gms in 1 playoffs.  I could see Pezz being that guy.  

 

 

You seriously think Pezatta is the missing piece the Canucks need to win the cup??? Really?? Really?

[Commandant]

12 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

You seriously think Pezatta is the missing piece the Canucks need to win the cup??? Really?? Really?

 

Jesus ####ing christ.

 

Pezzetta is barely an NHL player.  If our depth wasnt so shif, hed be in the press box or AHL.

[Commandant]

Why are we using +/- for anything?

 

There are so many better stats available.

 

 

[GHT120]

5 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Why are we using +/- for anything?

There are so many better stats available.

Because it fits a narrative

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Let's keep it civil, s'il vous plait. The guy is entitled to his opinion, respectfully expressed.

 

My take on this is: even if MSL isn't that great in managing veterans, that's not his primary purpose. He is here, above all, to help our prospects and young players develop. On that score, the results are very promising. Personally, I really don't care too much how turds like Dandonov or Drouin are doing without him, nor do I fret over the thought that they might have been borderline adequate 6th forwards with us under a different coach. This is a rebuild.

 

In a year or at most two, the organizational goals will pivot toward winning lots of hockey games. At that point, we will see whether MSL's bench management and veteran management are up to the task. I think he has a chance to be one of those rare Barry Trotz-type coaches who define the team for years and years, but he will have to get over that hump.

 

In terms of probabilities, the likeliest outcome is that a team would ditch the "rebuild" coach once it's time to contend. It's just that MSL is an outside-the-box thinker and has been defying the odds his entire life, so I'd say it's 50/50 in his case.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

33 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Let's keep it civil, s'il vous plait. The guy is entitled to his opinion, respectfully expressed.

 

 

Agreed, I always try and remember that we are all Habs fans that hope for the same thing. Another Stanley Cup. And to crush the Leafs. I don't think Pezzetta is the missing piece either but that is one person's opinion.  

 

I actually think Gallagher might be the missing piece for the Canucks. Or maybe Armia.  Ok, I am being a smart ass now. My apologies. 

[alfredoh2009]

2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

What had Gignac done to you, that you want to punish him so badly!!

you know me, I am a potato-head the torturer

 

Ha! Ha! HA!

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Let's keep it civil, s'il vous plait. The guy is entitled to his opinion, respectfully expressed.

 

My take on this is: even if MSL isn't that great in managing veterans, that's not his primary purpose. He is here, above all, to help our prospects and young players develop. On that score, the results are very promising. Personally, I really don't care too much how turds like Dandonov or Drouin are doing without him, nor do I fret over the thought that they might have been borderline adequate 6th forwards with us under a different coach. This is a rebuild.

 

In a year or at most two, the organizational goals will pivot toward winning lots of hockey games. At that point, we will see whether MSL's bench management and veteran management are up to the task. I think he has a chance to be one of those rare Barry Trotz-type coaches who define the team for years and years, but he will have to get over that hump.

 

In terms of probabilities, the likeliest outcome is that a team would ditch the "rebuild" coach once it's time to contend. It's just that MSL is an outside-the-box thinker and has been defying the odds his entire life, so I'd say it's 50/50 in his case.

I have one person on Ignore, so I did not see any bullying comments.

I agree with you, there is little to fret about

It was how I felt whenever I posted .

 

 

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Agreed, I always try and remember that we are all Habs fans that hope for the same thing. Another Stanley Cup. And to crush the Leafs. I don't think Pezzetta is the missing piece either but that is one person's opinion.  

 

I actually think Gallagher might be the missing piece for the Canucks. Or maybe Armia.  Ok, I am being a smart ass now. My apologies. 

LOL.

I often feel that way: wishing we could dump our deadwood somewhere else

[Commandant]

I dont see how pointing out that a poster had had a narrative that has been against MSL and Hughes/Gorton since the day they were hired is uncivil and/or bullying.

 

I'm just stating my opinion that there has been plenty of axe grinding at this managemeny and I dont feel its deserved.

 

Thats discussing the hockey team and our opinions on it. And thats what a message board is for IMO.

 

 

 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I never meant to suggest bullying - MUCH too strong a word. I just thought there was a scornful tone directed at the poster in a couple of replies. Didn't mean to cause a ruckus or accuse anybody.