huzer Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 28 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said: I just read a headline about Engstrom. Isn't Bogdan Konyushkov also a strong prospect? For sure, the prospect pipeline has been fixed, notably by MB stubbornly insisting on not trading prospects and HughGort using expiring contracts and veterans smartly on trades for young talent. Now, it is time to start putting a team that competes together. cough *Sergachev* cough. Bergevin was decent at the trade table, but I don't think he was terribly stubborn about not trading prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 2 hours ago, Plutarch said: All i can think about is what we are going to end up doing with hte blue line! Matheson-Guhle Harris-Savard Struble-Mailloux Xhejak-Kovacevic Hutson-Barron Trudeau-Reinbacher Would we really have this in the AHL? Hutson-Reinbacher Xhejak/Struble-Barron/Mailloux Trudeau In the NHL having... Matheson-Guhle Harris-Savard Xhejak/Struble-Mailloux/Barron Kovacevic Obviously pairings subject to completely change. Do we see keeping Harris, Xhejak, Struble, Barron, Mailloux around to battle for the spots... Then flip who doesn't make it? I figure Kovacevic is our 7th... Just wild My guess is that at least one of those Dmen won’t be on the roster next season. I frankly love the amount of competition for a roster spot now. I do expect some players to be in Laval that are ready for NHL while they sort the roster out - Hutson could surely play NHL next year, even if he has stuff to work on but there isn’t a spot for him. I bet Savard is traded at the next deadline and then Reinbacker takes his spot to finish out the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Bruins/Dallas/Florida/Rangers/Vancouver dressed 10 different d-men this year Aves/Oilers/Carolina dressed 9 different d-men. So NHL-ready depth always needed. e.g. Savard goes down in Oct and Reinbacher or Mailloux recalled earlier than wanted. And also seems a given, that at least 1 d-man will be traded before the fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Another statistical tidbit: only five Habs regulars with a positive +/- rating: Savard/Evans were next at -1. Matheson and Gallagher ended the year tied at -24. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 14 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Another statistical tidbit: only five Habs regulars with a positive +/- rating: Savard/Evans were next at -1. Matheson and Gallagher ended the year tied at -24. So three guys of these guys never really have the puck -and are usually chasing the play, but hey they have positive +/- ratings. I’ll take Matheson’a negative rating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 20 minutes ago, tomh009 said: Another statistical tidbit: only five Habs regulars with a positive +/- rating: Savard/Evans were next at -1. Matheson and Gallagher ended the year tied at -24. Kovacevic is a very good 3rd pair RD at this stage of the Habs rebuild. By this and other metrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Kovacevic is terribly underrated the same way Kulak was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Slafkovsky on the worlds. I love his attitude and competitive spirit. Canada might upend his plans though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plutarch Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: My guess is that at least one of those Dmen won’t be on the roster next season. I frankly love the amount of competition for a roster spot now. I do expect some players to be in Laval that are ready for NHL while they sort the roster out - Hutson could surely play NHL next year, even if he has stuff to work on but there isn’t a spot for him. I bet Savard is traded at the next deadline and then Reinbacker takes his spot to finish out the season. I guess i'm curious if they will 'wait and see' in training camp and who takes the spot... or try and trade guys before that when their value may be higher... I don't know what the right decision is here at all. I'm attached to so many of these guys. Also I have no clue what the value of a Jordan Harris or a Justin Barron actually is? Kovacevic I figure is like a 3rd at absolute very best? So I would just keep him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Kovacevic is terribly underrated the same way Kulak was. Kulak was the 6th in TOI for Oilers amongst their D regulars ... admittedly on a better GAA team than Montréal ... not certain that "terribly" is the right description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 44 minutes ago, Plutarch said: I guess i'm curious if they will 'wait and see' in training camp and who takes the spot... or try and trade guys before that when their value may be higher... I expect the most likely time for any trade will be at, leading up to, the draft or shortly after the initial UFA "excitement". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 hour ago, GHT120 said: Kulak was the 6th in TOI for Oilers amongst their D regulars ... admittedly on a better GAA team than Montréal ... not certain that "terribly" is the right description. I think PMK's point is that he was underappreciated when he played for the Habs. Sixth in TOI with Ducharme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted April 20 Author Share Posted April 20 6 minutes ago, tomh009 said: I think PMK's point is that he was underappreciated when he played for the Habs. Sixth in TOI with Ducharme. That was how I took it ... but still don't think that "terribly" is the right adverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 13 hours ago, GHT120 said: Kulak was the 6th in TOI for Oilers amongst their D regulars ... admittedly on a better GAA team than Montréal ... not certain that "terribly" is the right description. Sure I mean we are talking about bottom pairing Dmen here. I just think both fans and some media don’t appreciate how good these guys actually are - for bottom pairing guys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 18 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Sure I mean we are talking about bottom pairing Dmen here. I just think both fans and some media don’t appreciate how good these guys actually are - for bottom pairing guys exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted April 20 Author Share Posted April 20 1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Sure I mean we are talking about bottom pairing Dmen here. I just think both fans and some media don’t appreciate how good these guys actually are - for bottom pairing guys Relative to non-NHLers I agree ... I recall a former work colleague talking about some "goon" former NHLer joining his beer league ... turned out he looked like Gretzky in a pee-wee league once he stepped on the ice. But the majority of fans are assessing players in terms of their NHL value ... a 6th defenceman is usually a 6th defenceman for good reason ... maybe a 4/5 on another team it its D is weak enough ... but with something lacking that prevents him from being anything more on a regular basis with an average or better team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 17 hours ago, Plutarch said: I guess i'm curious if they will 'wait and see' in training camp and who takes the spot... or try and trade guys before that when their value may be higher... I don't know what the right decision is here at all. I'm attached to so many of these guys. Also I have no clue what the value of a Jordan Harris or a Justin Barron actually is? Kovacevic I figure is like a 3rd at absolute very best? So I would just keep him. That's sort of the trouble, IMHO. We can talk about "flipping a D for a FW" but guys like Harris, Barron, Struble and Kovacevic are unlikely to command a significant return. The dudes who would bring back a major asset - WiFi, Mailloux, Hutson, Guhle - are the ones we would HATE to see traded. Perhaps the likeliest outcome is that one of our crown jewels on D is actually what gets moved in order to bring back an impact young FW. And we then trust that our blueline depth will allow us to absorb the blow to our D. Rebalancing the roster sounds good but it will probably hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 3 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: The dudes who would bring back a major asset - WiFi, Mailloux, Hutson, Guhle - are the ones we would HATE to see traded. That is true but I also think Barron has more trade value than a lot of people here think. He has 12 goals in 92 games which is pretty good for a 22 year old defensemen plus he is a right D. He could easily be a regular 10-15 goal, 35 -40 point a year guy. Some teams might really value his offensive skills. He has work to do on the defensive side but that is true of most 22 year old defensemen. By himself maybe not a great return but he could significantly enhance a package for the right player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 59 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Perhaps the likeliest outcome is that one of our crown jewels on D is actually what gets moved in order to bring back an impact young FW. And we then trust that our blueline depth will allow us to absorb the blow to our D. I think Hughes will be looking for the advantage, for another GM that values one of our D higher than he does. And maybe has a F that he is giving up on. I'm 90% sure the actual F/D trade, if it happens, will be for a forward we never predicted. Like Dach. Like Newhook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted April 20 Author Share Posted April 20 33 minutes ago, tomh009 said: I think Hughes will be looking for the advantage, for another GM that values one of our D higher than he does. And maybe has a F that he is giving up on. That doesn't necessarily mean there is no chance of his trading a "crown jewel" ... just means his price point would be higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 hour ago, GHT120 said: That doesn't necessarily mean there is no chance of his trading a "crown jewel" ... just means his price point would be higher. are you saying that there is a chance of trading a "crown jewel" (if I take out the double negative), or with the qualifier "necessarily", that it is necessary that he trades a "corwn jewel" at a higher point? IMHO, there is no rush to move any of the young Ds before the return for Savard is maximized. Then, a decision on any of the prospects will be easier to take with more games to base a decision on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 2 hours ago, GHT120 said: That doesn't necessarily mean there is no chance of his trading a "crown jewel" ... just means his price point would be higher. Also, Hughes's definition of "crown jewel" may be different than out definition; he has access to much more data and assessments (and plans!) than we do, so he may determine that "crown jewel 1" is critical while "crown jewel 2" can be traded because there is someone else that will be able to fill that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted April 20 Author Share Posted April 20 3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said: are you saying that there is a chance of trading a "crown jewel" (if I take out the double negative), or with the qualifier "necessarily", that it is necessary that he trades a "corwn jewel" at a higher point? IMHO, there is no rush to move any of the young Ds before the return for Savard is maximized. Then, a decision on any of the prospects will be easier to take with more games to base a decision on. I was responding to Tom009's comment that "Hughes will be looking for the advantage, for another GM that values one of our D higher than he does. And maybe has a F that he is giving up on." I was suggesting that he would not necessarily be looking for a forward the other GM was "giving up on" .... but that would likely necessitate offering a better "package/player(s)", or a "crown jewel" as they were described. While I agree there is no "rush" to move any of the young Ds, it may be necessary to avoid losing out on a player that Hughes et al identify they want/need ... waiting to have more games upon which to make a decision also runs the risk of allowing a player(s) to prove he/they is not worth as much as he is "now" ... management teams have to constantly assess their projection of where a player will "top out" and make their decisions accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Captain Obvious stuff here by Friedman but Im excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted April 21 Author Share Posted April 21 13 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said: Captain Obvious stuff here by Friedman but Im excited. I was disappointed that Freidman went full "cruise control" just to get a mention of the Habs in the column ... ClickBait30 could have done as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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