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16 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

They would survive. Saros is going to be their starter soon. Losing Josi would hurt but the team would endure, just like they did when losing Johansen.

 

It's like everyone forgets when Markov went down twice and the Habs still found ways to make the playoffs. A big part of it was finding a good replacement on the market. I believe strongly had Montreal traded for Reimer they would have made the playoffs in 15-16. Instead Bergevin tanked the year when still at the top of the division and acquired Scrivens. Some might think that was the right decision in order to get a better draft pick but if your goal is to win the Cup, you shouldn't be purposely tanking your season. 

So you add saviour Reimer by trading away something; but, which top 4 d-man replaces Petry and which top six winger replaces Gallagher? And you would simply trade away more picks to stitch a team together to make a highly unlikely cup run and then many would complain got less than nothing left in farm system a couple years later?

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26 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

They would survive. Saros is going to be their starter soon. Losing Josi would hurt but the team would endure, just like they did when losing Johansen.

 

It's like everyone forgets when Markov went down twice and the Habs still found ways to make the playoffs. A big part of it was finding a good replacement on the market. I believe strongly had Montreal traded for Reimer they would have made the playoffs in 15-16. Instead Bergevin tanked the year when still at the top of the division and acquired Scrivens. Some might think that was the right decision in order to get a better draft pick but if your goal is to win the Cup, you shouldn't be purposely tanking your season. 

The rangers lost lundquist for most of the year when we lost Price and they didn't miss a beat.

 

When we lost Price is wasn't initially supposed to be for the whole year, they should have gotten a guy like Reimer than Ben Friggin Scrivens.

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1 hour ago, illWill said:

 

I'm just quoting this so people can read it again

Hahahah agreed, it was a good post.

 

Rational posts are always hold the most weight, and we need some like that to get everyone back down to earth. 

 

But the hot-headed ones are sometimes the most entertaining hahahah

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On 7/4/2017 at 1:39 PM, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Although I just made a post in another thread including Bergevin's name, none of my posts here are really against Bergevin, although this would be the place to do it. They're more about losing out on Radulov. 

Stephane Laporte had a funny about that on Lapresse.ca "mon clin d'oeil" (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/le-clin-doeil-de-stephane-laporte/201707/10/01-5114882-mon-clin-doeil-du-mardi-11-juillet-2017.php)

"Radulov a préféré aller jouer dans un pays dirigé par un Russe."

ruff translation: Radu prefered to go play in a country run by a Russian.

:D:D:D

(edit) is that Markov's hold out? ;)

Edited by ehjay
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5 hours ago, ehjay said:

Stephane Laporte had a funny about that on Lapresse.ca "mon clin d'oeil" (http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/le-clin-doeil-de-stephane-laporte/201707/10/01-5114882-mon-clin-doeil-du-mardi-11-juillet-2017.php)

"Radulov a préféré aller jouer dans un pays dirigé par un Russe."

ruff translation: Radu prefered to go play in a country run by a Russian.

:D:D:D

(edit) is that Markov's hold out? ;)

:lol:

 

That took me a lot longer to understand than it should have. Funny indeed.

 

As for the topic being discussed, I've literally always been a Habs optimist but when we were discussing the loss of Radulov, many people argued that Drouin was better than him, so the loss of Radulov would feel less meaningful. One could have argued that the loss of Radulov due to injury (last season) would have been huge as well but when

we acquired Drouin, the initial reaction was that we had added yet another piece to our offensive unit. When we lost Radulov, it was only then that people seemed to point out that Drouin's ceiling is astronomical and that he could improve our offensive unit single-handedly even with the loss of Radulov. It is in that sense that it makes sense to worry about the "what if" he gets injured. Pacioretty is proven but outside of Galchenyuk, Lehkonen and Gallagher's potential there's not much outside of Drouin and we are weak at center. 

 

I think even those who are "rational" about the team would like to see us in that inner circle of top tier contenders since we hover every year. That list of teams includes Pittsburgh, who should be the current model of success, and they were able to win the cup without a significant piece in Letang. In addition, they could have won had either of their goalies gone down as well. 

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7 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

They would survive. Saros is going to be their starter soon. Losing Josi would hurt but the team would endure, just like they did when losing Johansen.

 

It's like everyone forgets when Markov went down twice and the Habs still found ways to make the playoffs. A big part of it was finding a good replacement on the market. I believe strongly had Montreal traded for Reimer they would have made the playoffs in 15-16. Instead Bergevin tanked the year when still at the top of the division and acquired Scrivens. Some might think that was the right decision in order to get a better draft pick but if your goal is to win the Cup, you shouldn't be purposely tanking your season. 

 

No that was clearly a mistake, but there was also no clear sign that Price was missing a whole year at the time of the Scrivens trade. The hope at that time was that Price would return after the all star break if I recall. So do you really give up as much as it takes to get a Reimer if you think you might only be 8 weeks away from having your Starter back? The answer could be yes or no at that point, it becomes much more clear when you find out Price is gone the rest of the season. In Hindsight i'm sure Bergevin realizes that trade was not adequate, and if he could do it over again i'm sure he would be more aggressive in a trade. 

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7 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

The rangers lost lundquist for most of the year when we lost Price and they didn't miss a beat.

 

When we lost Price is wasn't initially supposed to be for the whole year, they should have gotten a guy like Reimer than Ben Friggin Scrivens.

 

Go look at Cam Talbot's stats compared to the goalies we had while Price was injured. Of course Rangers didn't miss a beat they got goaltending that was statistically better than Lundqvist that year from Talbot. Our guys here? not even close to what Price was doing that year before his injury

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17 hours ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

 

Yah...current iteration peaked three seasons ago, traded most dynamic player last year, lost most dynamic player this year, and Ales Hemsky wasn't even off the bus when GarbageBin signed the second coming of the Luongo deal. So much winning we will all get tired of winning soon enough.

 

God I can't wait for the season to start so people can actually see how dynamic Jonathan Drouin is. This constant rhetoric on how we have no exciting players left and because of that the team is crashing an burning is a little much. The kid will literally have Highlight of the night moments at least a half dozen times next year just based on the half dozen he had last season in Tampa. 

 

He will quickly quench the thirst for Dynamic Talent and hopefully help folks move past this Radulov thing.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Link67 said:

 

No that was clearly a mistake, but there was also no clear sign that Price was missing a whole year at the time of the Scrivens trade. The hope at that time was that Price would return after the all star break if I recall. So do you really give up as much as it takes to get a Reimer if you think you might only be 8 weeks away from having your Starter back? The answer could be yes or no at that point, it becomes much more clear when you find out Price is gone the rest of the season. In Hindsight i'm sure Bergevin realizes that trade was not adequate, and if he could do it over again i'm sure he would be more aggressive in a trade. 

 

Originally it felt like it would be a month. After the Winter Classic the silence became very deafening. I think the organization knew something was up. 

 

Toronto was in firesale mode and we knew with the Phaneuf deal they would have no issue sending important players to rivals. I don't know what their asking price was in December/January but come trade deadline he went for a fourth rounder and a prospect swap. Would he cost a second? Third? Instead of going with Condon they could have had Reimer so when Price returned, he could be eased in with Reimer getting a lot of the games. 

 

Instead they went all in on a college rookie and Scrivens. It was pathetic. It wasn't trade Cammalleri mid game against the Bruins and then tell him he would have to buy his sweater back pathetic but it killed my confidence in Bergevin. Trading Subban was really just digging up the coffin to add some extra nails. 

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There hasn't been that point for me yet, because for every questionable move, he still also pulls rabbits out of his hat that just remind me that everyone is human and everyone makes mistakes. If he was incompetent he would not be capable of moves that brought in  Petry, Vanek, Benn, Danault, Byron, Drouin, Radulov. That is a solid list there of players who have and will render notable contributions to this team.  He also brought them in with cost of acquisition varying from very reasonable to STEAL. I've said it before and will say it again, he has his shining moments and he has had some notable errors. He has been neither Brilliant or Incompetent, and for that, in my books, he is free to proceed until he mucks things up a lot worse than a division winning team.

 

For every instance he has made me feel like this with his moves

wolf%20of%20wall%20street2.jpg.CROP.thum

 

He has also pulled off stuff that made me feel like this

a561a3c9d__430x224_0481600880.jpg

 

 

 

 

I'll continue to give him the benefit of the doubt as long as the pendulum does not swing too heavily in the negative direction, and a benefit of the doubt is not to be mistaken for unconditional support.

 

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I have found Bergevin's work with the roster acceptable overall. But to not identify the gaping hole in player development, and not only that, to follow the failures up with a round of promotions, is firing material. Zero prospects. Zero. None. Not one. 

 

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38 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

I have found Bergevin's work with the roster acceptable overall. But to not identify the gaping hole in player development, and not only that, to follow the failures up with a round of promotions, is firing material. Zero prospects. Zero. None. Not one. 

 

You serious about this and that you call yourself a Habs fan...sorry Habs nut? :thumbs_down: 

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I'm definitely a fan. I try to stand back and allow things to play out before I judge them. Zero impact players have developed in this system. I've seen your rebuttals and I am not willing to call Andre ghetto or macarron an impact cut. Every team has those guys. It's hard to progress in a cap system when your drafting and development stinks worse than a restaurant dumpster fire. 

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4 hours ago, Link67 said:

 

Go look at Cam Talbot's stats compared to the goalies we had while Price was injured. Of course Rangers didn't miss a beat they got goaltending that was statistically better than Lundqvist that year from Talbot. Our guys here? not even close to what Price was doing that year before his injury

The whole point is the stats of our goalies when Price went down.

 

Who didn't assess the goaltending  situation and picked up a minor league goalie to play with a rookie?  Who traded for Ben friggin Scrivens - who was a downgrade on Condon?  

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2 hours ago, Link67 said:

There hasn't been that point for me yet, because for every questionable move, he still also pulls rabbits out of his hat that just remind me that everyone is human and everyone makes mistakes. If he was incompetent he would not be capable of moves that brought in  Petry, Vanek, Benn, Danault, Byron, Drouin, Radulov. That is a solid list there of players who have and will render notable contributions to this team.  He also brought them in with cost of acquisition varying from very reasonable to STEAL. I've said it before and will say it again, he has his shining moments and he has had some notable errors. He has been neither Brilliant or Incompetent, and for that, in my books, he is free to proceed until he mucks things up a lot worse than a division winning team.

 

For every instance he has made me feel like this with his moves

wolf%20of%20wall%20street2.jpg.CROP.thum

 

He has also pulled off stuff that made me feel like this

a561a3c9d__430x224_0481600880.jpg

 

 

 

 

I'll continue to give him the benefit of the doubt as long as the pendulum does not swing too heavily in the negative direction, and a benefit of the doubt is not to be mistaken for unconditional support.

 

He also signed a washed out Briere.  Semin.  Douglas friggin Murray.  Signed emelin, pleks, Shaw to horrible contracts, while playing hardball with Subban and galchenyuk.  And picked up declining dman for our #1 dman.  

 

The good - vanek, the maxpac contract, the Petry trade (not the subsequent contract), unloading the Cole contract.  Byron. The Drouin contract (still have misgivings about the trade)

 

The indifferent: weisse, Mitchell, Flynn, and the other grunts, Alzner (would be good if it was a 3 year deal). 

 

the bad: contract negotiations and bridge deals to Subban and to a lesser extent galchenyuk, Briere, Murray, contracts for pleks, emelin, Shaw, player development in general and hanging on to MT too long, hanging on to Lefebve, not hiring Robinson.  Not trading for a real backup when Price went down and once he gave up on the season by not address the goaltending, not trying to dump pleks or emelin at the deadline that year

 

the saw off - giving away our only #1 potential d prospect for Drouin. If Sergechev lives up to his potential we may regret this deal.

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1 hour ago, BCHabnut said:

I'm definitely a fan. I try to stand back and allow things to play out before I judge them. Zero impact players have developed in this system. I've seen your rebuttals and I am not willing to call Andre ghetto or macarron an impact cut. Every team has those guys. It's hard to progress in a cap system when your drafting and development stinks worse than a restaurant dumpster fire. 

Your attitude is better than having your head up MB's ass like don and co.

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Honestly, I haven't minded his work overall with the team. There are moves I like and moves I dislike, but the overall resume has been a competitive team. player development is where it all falls apart with me. Why blow the team up when chances are you are just gonna screw up the picks anyway. 

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11 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

Honestly, I haven't minded his work overall with the team. There are moves I like and moves I dislike, but the overall resume has been a competitive team. player development is where it all falls apart with me. Why blow the team up when chances are you are just gonna screw up the picks anyway. 

 

I agree that his NHL moves have been a mixed bag - but feel that they ultimately have a Whack-a-Mole quality to them, never better exemplified than his filling the hole left by Rad's impending departure by trading away the team's only elite prospect. Those who say that Drouin replaces Radu are forgetting the price we paid to stand still.

 

But the real case for firing Bergevin rests on his abominable negligence in drafting and development. To keep him around in light of that is practically a guarantee of disaster once this core ages.

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13 hours ago, BCHabnut said:

I'm definitely a fan. I try to stand back and allow things to play out before I judge them. Zero impact players have developed in this system. I've seen your rebuttals and I am not willing to call Andre ghetto or macarron an impact cut. Every team has those guys. It's hard to progress in a cap system when your drafting and development stinks worse than a restaurant dumpster fire. 

Juulsen, Sergachev, Poehling, Lehkonen, McNivan, Lindgren, Reway, Ikonen are all dumpster fire kids are they...some might disagree with your lame gloom and doom.

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15 hours ago, Link67 said:

 

I'll continue to give him the benefit of the doubt as long as the pendulum does not swing too heavily in the negative direction, and a benefit of the doubt is not to be mistaken for unconditional support.

 

 

I should steal this to use as my signature on this forum. 

 

It's insane how the views of many have changed since a certain trade last off season. MB could do no wrong up until that point, now he can do no right. 

 

All they did was win their division and then lost to a solid team that had 1 less point than them in the standings. 

 

 

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Guest Stogey24
18 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

I should steal this to use as my signature on this forum. 

 

It's insane how the views of many have changed since a certain trade last off season. MB could do no wrong up until that point, now he can do no right. 

 

All they did was win their division and then lost to a solid team that had 1 less point than them in the standings. 

 

 

This team wasn't a lottery team 2 years ago were they?  

 

They didn't have a disastrous portion of last season where they had to fire their coach and come to the realization that missing the playoffs was a real thing. Even though they were in a piss poor division  

 

This team wasn't starved for goals all season long? Then at the deadline our g.m adds 3 players who are barely nhl caliber( 2 of which aren't even on nhl team's now). 

 

Now once again this team has stood still in the off season(I know it's only july) and gained no ground in the scoring department.

 

None of that makes you wonder if this g.m has lost direction of this team? 

 

This divison isn't going to be a cake walk again next season. The playoffs are going to be a seriously tight race and I'm not sure Bergevin has acquired the horses needed to win it. 

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4 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

This team wasn't a lottery team 2 years ago were they?  

If you want to go back in time, why not go back to when he took over and tell me about his entire body of work, not just the one year they missed the playoffs. 

 

They didn't have a disastrous portion of last season where they had to fire their coach and come to the realization that missing the playoffs was a real thing. Even though they were in a piss poor division  

He fired the coach because he was losing the team or had already lost them. Scooping up the best available coach regardless of language seems like a win to me. 

 

This team wasn't starved for goals all season long? Then at the deadline our g.m adds 3 players who are barely nhl caliber( 2 of which aren't even on nhl team's now). 

Habs actually finished 15th in scoring, which isn't so bad when you consider they had the 4th least amount of goals scored on them. It's no secret that they emphasize defense first and then scoring. 

 

Now once again this team has stood still in the off season(I know it's only july) and gained no ground in the scoring department.

Your definition of staying still is different than mine. Drouin is better than Radulov, Alzner is better than Emelin, picked up Hemsky for nothing, and resigned Price and Galchenyuk. And yes, it's only July 12th. 

 

None of that makes you wonder if this g.m has lost direction of this team? 

No

 

This divison isn't going to be a cake walk again next season. The playoffs are going to be a seriously tight race and I'm not sure Bergevin has acquired the horses needed to win it. 

The division or any division is never a cake walk, even last season. This is why they play the games. 

 

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1 hour ago, DON said:

Juulsen, Sergachev, Poehling, Lehkonen, McNivan, Lindgren, Reway, Ikonen are all dumpster fire kids are they...some might disagree with your lame gloom and doom.

Juulsen new to play for Leferbve,

Sergachev never played for him,

Poehling was just drafted,

McNivan never played for Leferbve,

Lindgren is not really going to make an inpact on the habs now is he?,

Reway never played under Leferbve,

Lehkonen developed in Frölunda in Sweden.

ikonen was also just drafted.

Noone of these players have made any impact yet on the habs except Lehkonen and he never had a chance to be ruined by our poor crappy developement.

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Guest Stogey24

I've posted numerous times about Bergevin's playoffs record. The most recent 

55 minutes ago, illWill said:

 

 are a missed playoffs and first round knockout. For a team that's all in, that ain't pretty.

 

Adding Drouin and losing Radulov basically left us in the same spot. There's no gain there in point totals. 

 

The "defense first" you've mentioned... Ya,  thats all Carey Price. Watch the last 2 games of the playoffs and tell me where the defense was... All season long the defensive lapses were mind boggling. And Just because you call yourself a defense first team, doesn't make it o.k to not score goals  

 

The atlantic divion last year was a cake walk. Tampa lost their #1 centre, Boston is barely a playoff team, leafs were just figuring out who they are , Buffalo shit the bed, Detroit shit the bed, Florida had a considerably down year. Ottawa was the only real threat down the stretch. 

 

 

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Dalhabs said:

Juulsen new to play for Leferbve,

Sergachev never played for him,

Poehling was just drafted,

McNivan never played for Leferbve,

Lindgren is not really going to make an inpact on the habs now is he?,

Reway never played under Leferbve,

Lehkonen developed in Frölunda in Sweden.

ikonen was also just drafted.

Noone of these players have made any impact yet on the habs except Lehkonen and he never had a chance to be ruined by our poor crappy developement.

 

*mic drop*

 

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