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Game #9 Habs@Wild 5:00 EST October 20 2019

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Kinkaid 0-2 so far. Tough start. Let’s hope he’ll do better.

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Kinkaid wasnt the problem 

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13 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I agree with you, but its also chicken and egg.  Tired teams take bad penalties when they are chasing the play. 

 

This is one of the youngest teams in the NHL on average.  Twice we've played back-to-back and twice we've been terrible in the second game and lost to bad teams (Detroit and Minny). 

 

Where is the conditioning?  They shouldn't be that bad. 

 

A good point on that. It's a vicious circle of being half a step behind, taking a poor penalty, being half a step behind, getting more tired yet, ...

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5 minutes ago, JCPetit said:

Kinkaid 0-2 so far. Tough start. Let’s hope he’ll do better.

 

He's played both games with a tired team in front of him. As Chris said, he's not the reason they lost tonight.

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I wasn’t impressed in his first outing. Let’s be realistic: we won’t make the playoffs if the backup goalie doesn’t win his share of games.

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39 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

 

I would love to read an analysis of these ... how many of these are undisciplined offensive-zone penalties, justifiable defensive-zone penalties, or something else. I haven't seen enough games this year to have formed any sort of an impression myself.

 

A few of Tatar's were of the terrible variety...I remember wanting to reach through the screen to choke him a couple of times.

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Def don’t think anyone has a right to pin any of that loss on Kincaid.

Team wouldn’t have survived first period without him playing stellar.

He was forced to make numerous huge saves due to defensive laps, not just by defensemen and also played the puck Wisely numerous times to help with breakout. I was impressed by his puck handling, choosing right times and making crafty plays.

 

He was not the issue and anyone claiming he “needs to win his share of games” either isn’t watching, doesn’t have a clue or is trolling. Any backup goalie can’t be expected to steal games when I team takes that many pénalités.

Your starter is suppose to be able to steal games, backups keep you in games which is what he did.

 

Tatar has taken too many penalties, way too useful on the ice when he is out there and team is too weak on pk to afford it.

 

Tired of Mete playing top pairing, he’s an anchor on Weber. We should be taking advantage of Weber by providing him a good partner, not forcing him to carry a top pairing and then wonder why he’s not the stud we demand. 

Hard to believe there is no better left dman available than any of our options given we haven’t had a top pairing left d since Markov.

Everyone knows we’ve needed one, that blames falls on Mgmt. Mete is not Roman Josi 2.0 nor will he become that. He’s not offensive enough to even play pp and takes his best effort, skill and luck just to keep up with average plays, clearing the zone. He has not impressed enough to continue to pretend that problem isn’t holding us back.

if first pairing dman isn’t on pp and also not on pk, are they really a first pairing dman or just a place holder that’s somehow lasted too long in that role. He’s too small for bottom pairing and I don’t trust him with Petry who is perfect on second/1B pairing.

Doesn’t leave much room for him currently. Feel like he was rushed due to lack of options and to his/team’s demise.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, hockeyrealist said:

Def don’t think anyone has a right to pin any of that loss on Kincaid.

Team wouldn’t have survived first period without him playing stellar.

He was forced to make numerous huge saves due to defensive laps, not just by defensemen and also played the puck Wisely numerous times to help with breakout. I was impressed by his puck handling, choosing right times and making crafty plays.

 

He was not the issue and anyone claiming he “needs to win his share of games” either isn’t watching, doesn’t have a clue or is trolling. Any backup goalie can’t be expected to steal games when I team takes that many pénalités.

Your starter is suppose to be able to steal games, backups keep you in games which is what he did.

 

Tatar has taken too many penalties, way too useful on the ice when he is out there and team is too weak on pk to afford it.

 

Tired of Mete playing top pairing, he’s an anchor on Weber. We should be taking advantage of Weber by providing him a good partner, not forcing him to carry a top pairing and then wonder why he’s not the stud we demand. 

Hard to believe there is no better left dman available than any of our options given we haven’t had a top pairing left d since Markov.

Everyone knows we’ve needed one, that blames falls on Mgmt. Mete is not Roman Josi 2.0 nor will he become that. He’s not offensive enough to even play pp and takes his best effort, skill and luck just to keep up with average plays, clearing the zone. He has not impressed enough to continue to pretend that problem isn’t holding us back.

if first pairing dman isn’t on pp and also not on pk, are they really a first pairing dman or just a place holder that’s somehow lasted too long in that role. He’s too small for bottom pairing and I don’t trust him with Petry who is perfect on second/1B pairing.

Doesn’t leave much room for him currently. Feel like he was rushed due to lack of options and to his/team’s demise.

 

 

 

 

I only read the part where you said Mete is holding back Weber; you cant be serious. Weber looked OK last game, but that guy is not a #1 D-man anymore. He has has cement in his skates these days.

 

You're not actually watching these games, man

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I watched this game via the Minnesota feed. Who knew Wes Walz was still involved in the game as a colour analyst? Not me. 😄 The "homer" slant was egregious but as a whole the broadcast had me feeling rather sorry for the Wild. Despite some talent, including the excellent Koivu, they've had a sad-sack start to the season and their fragility is somewhat pathetic; and really that has been a total "nothing" of a franchise since its inception. Sad, really. I still wasn't happy to see them win the game, though! Poor Kinkaid, he deserved better.

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27 minutes ago, Habber31 said:

I only read the part where you said Mete is holding back Weber; you cant be serious. Weber looked OK last game, but that guy is not a #1 D-man anymore. He has has cement in his skates these days.

 

You're not actually watching these games, man

I kinda agree with hockeyrealist  on this one.

 

Only thing,  like you, I'm not convinced that Weber is a bonified #1 anymore.  He's probably more a #1B dman at this point.

 

Where I meet Realist, is that I too believe that we should be riding another #1B with Weber.  Doing so would greatly improve our chances to see a better Weber.  And Mete is not #1B and will most likely never be.

 

Just like what McAvoy provides with Chara, allowing him to do his thing.

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I absolutely agree, Weber needs a legit partner, but Mete is not dragging Weber down.

 

I do think that We'd probably see Mete's offensive numbers go up playing further down the line up though. 

 

Weber is one of my favorite players, but you can clearly see flaws in his game. It was the same thing with Pleky; no one wanted to admit that his game was slipping, until it fell off.

 

 Weber is far from falling off, but at 34, he's not the player he once was 

 

 

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Weber off to a slow start, still on pace for 46pts.

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The difference again was special teams. Minny didnt have much outside of the PP and some moments early on. With that said, after Zucker calling out everyone no less then a week ago we should of expected minny's supposed best. turns out a bad penalty did us in.

 

 All this Mete talk of not being a top pair is funny. Meanwhile, the truth is he's been exactly that for all of this year, and most of last.. He's only 21 I might add. This is turning out to be the most amazing story for the 6th rounder! an absolute steal in fact!! Cant wait to see how he looks in a couple seasons at only 23 years old! ease up on the kid... hes so ahead of the curve.

 

Seriously... every time we blow a game (on special teams)  we will bang the Weber drum?

 

 

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47 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

The difference again was special teams. Minny didnt have much outside of the PP and some moments early on. With that said, after Zucker calling out everyone no less then a week ago we should of expected minny's supposed best. turns out a bad penalty did us in.

 

 All this Mete talk of not being a top pair is funny. Meanwhile, the truth is he's been exactly that for all of this year, and most of last.. He's only 21 I might add. This is turning out to be the most amazing story for the 6th rounder! an absolute steal in fact!! Cant wait to see how he looks in a couple seasons at only 23 years old! ease up on the kid... hes so ahead of the curve.

 

Seriously... every time we blow a game (on special teams)  we will bang the Weber drum?

 

 

 

He's a steal of a pick, 100% agree. 

But he was an early 4th rounder (100th overall).

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3 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

He's a steal of a pick, 100% agree. 

But he was an early 4th rounder (100th overall).

I meant 4th    😏

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I don't care that he's ahead of his curve.

 

He still isn't playing in the right spot facing other teams top line every night.

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10 minutes ago, JoeLassister said:

I don't care that he's ahead of his curve.

 

He still isn't playing in the right spot facing other teams top line every night.

 

At this point in his career, I agree. 

You need a LHD who can skate, move the puck and is a legit top-pairing defender on the team. 

Kulak-Petry is a good pair. 
Chiarot is fine on the third pair.... might be a rotating cast beside him of Mete, Juulsen, Fleury and Folin if we had a legit #1 pair LHD.

 

That would actually be a good group of 6. 

 

The question is who do you get and what does it cost to get him.   Gustafsson in Chicago, Gostisbehere in Philly, remain options IMO.  

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12 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

At this point in his career, I agree. 

You need a LHD who can skate, move the puck and is a legit top-pairing defender on the team. 

Kulak-Petry is a good pair. 
Chiarot is fine on the third pair.... might be a rotating cast beside him of Mete, Juulsen, Fleury and Folin if we had a legit #1 pair LHD.

 

That would actually be a good group of 6. 

 

The question is who do you get and what does it cost to get him.   Gustafsson in Chicago, Gostisbehere in Philly, remain options IMO.  

I agree hes not a number 1... yet... maybe.

 

But that doesn't mean he needs to be trashed as nothing. Hes performed admirably in that role and it's not like hes looked completely out of place on the top pair either. Hes also only 21! If he was taller we'd all be drooling over him. HIS BIGGEST issue is immaturity, he is not mature/ ready to help elevate Weber. But, hes not making him any worse either. 

 

I highly doubt he would go from top LD pair to rotating on the bottom pair. Most likely  one of our LD would be going the other way in a deal for a top LD.

 

With that said, I'd love to get my hands on Slavin, Werenski or Fowler in a trade. Sure it's a pipe dream but I think any 1 of those 3 would really compliment Weber's game.

I'd prefer Gustafsson over Gostisphere personally.

 

Although I'm perfectly happy playing through this season, promoting kids when merited and finding a diamond like Petry at the deadline.

The UFA market for LD in 2020 is vast. Maybe one of them could be targeted at the deadline.

 

 

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On 10/21/2019 at 12:12 PM, Habber31 said:

I only read the part where you said Mete is holding back Weber; you cant be serious. Weber looked OK last game, but that guy is not a #1 D-man anymore. He has has cement in his skates these days.

 

You're not actually watching these games, man

At this point mete isn't the one who is a number one D. The kid still needs to develop. Weber has  to cover a lot of his mistakes. If Weber had a reliable #1 on his Left side   he could just worry about his own game. This is why this should of been the number one priority in the off season, either through trade of free agency.

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maybe we need a D to play with our current #1D.... Jeff Petry

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2 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

maybe we need a D to play with our current #1D.... Jeff Petry

He has been more reliable ever since Weber went down last year and he became the #1 guy. 

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40 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

maybe we need a D to play with our current #1D.... Jeff Petry

 

Kulak-petry is a legit top.pairing.  ive done the numbers on kulak before.  Easily the most underrated player on this team.  Hes legit.

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12 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

I agree hes not a number 1... yet... maybe.

 

But that doesn't mean he needs to be trashed as nothing. Hes performed admirably in that role and it's not like hes looked completely out of place on the top pair either. Hes also only 21! If he was taller we'd all be drooling over him. HIS BIGGEST issue is immaturity, he is not mature/ ready to help elevate Weber. But, hes not making him any worse either. 

 

I highly doubt he would go from top LD pair to rotating on the bottom pair. Most likely  one of our LD would be going the other way in a deal for a top LD.

 

With that said, I'd love to get my hands on Slavin, Werenski or Fowler in a trade. Sure it's a pipe dream but I think any 1 of those 3 would really compliment Weber's game.

I'd prefer Gustafsson over Gostisphere personally.

 

Although I'm perfectly happy playing through this season, promoting kids when merited and finding a diamond like Petry at the deadline.

The UFA market for LD in 2020 is vast. Maybe one of them could be targeted at the deadline.

 

 

The UFA market is vast... until they all start signing extensions...

To be fair, if we want to get a  LEGIT #1b LD  as I'd like to,  the one going the other way is Mete. Won't achieve that by moving Chiarot...

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3 hours ago, JoeLassister said:

The UFA market is vast... until they all start signing extensions...

To be fair, if we want to get a  LEGIT #1b LD  as I'd like to,  the one going the other way is Mete. Won't achieve that by moving Chiarot...

I said it a week or two ago but it would have to be Mete or Danault.

 

On topic:


Mete is not an ideal 1st pairing defenseman. He can be, but he also could be a third pairing defenseman. The same thing can be said about Brett Kulak. He can be a first pairing defenseman, but he also could be a third pairing defenseman and no one would blink an eye.

 

I don’t think this means that there’s even a single person who doesn’t like them, or is even criticizing them. I also don’t think it’s true, however that we can say it would be imaginable to see Weber on the third pair. There’s a discrepancy between Weber, Kulak, and Mete.

 

In the modern NHL, there are plenty of teams with speedy puck handling defensemen on their third pairing. Ideally, a first pairing defenseman can either really shut things down, or contribute more on the offensive side of things. 
 

I think it’s also true and arguable that in the modern day NHL, some teams don’t have two bonafide first pairing defensemen, and also that we’re all suffering from a little post-Markov-depression on the left side of our D.
 

 

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I don't see this team moving Danault.  He's necessary. 

 

Domi is not good enough in his own zone to go against other team's top lines.   His offensive contributions are that of a first liner though. 

 

KK is very good defensively in his matchups, but he's 19 years old and in his second year.  He may eventually become an elite two way centre, but he's not there yet. 

 

Danault provides ~50 points of offence and gets selke votes for his defensive contributions.  He's absolutely necessary on this current squad to play that role.  As much as Plekanec was necessary from 2008-2017 or so to play that same role. 

 

You can't look at his offensive numbers.  His role is to be the #1 C defensively and #2 C offensively....  And he's excelled in that role. 

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