Trizzak Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Sportsnet.ca: "We consider Andrei an elite player in the NHL," said general manager Bob Gainey. "His experience, his statistics... he's an important part of our team and he's an important part of the Russian national team, which is always an indication of an elite player." FACE! Subtle dig at Kovalev there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 I too think Bob overpaid, but that has been his habit. Whatever else Bob is, he is not a great negotiator of salaries. The impact of that is he has less to pay a true elite player. Markov is a great defenseman and clearly the Habs best, but he has never raised his game consistently to the elite level. This year he scored 6 goals? He was decent defensively, but he was not stunningly good in that department either. We laughed when they paid McCabe and Kaberle those big salaries, how are Markov and Souray different? In any case, I am sure Souray will now want similar money, and all the players will expect big raises. What is done is done, and I sure hope there is still money in the bank to pay an elite center, since this team clearly needs one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcR Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 I'm happy with the deal, as others said, probably a little high, but he was important to keep. It's quite possible that Gainey watched a few of the Bulldogs games and panicked when he saw the brutal puck movement on the powerplay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFT77 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Great news today! Very happy with the signing! 5 million per would have been great, but i have no problem with 5.75. The habs key d-man is signed up for 4 more years. Next is Souray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Gainey paid what equates to market value - probably a lot less than he would have to on July 1st to get the same talent. Fact is every NHL manager is overpaying for defenceman of this calibre... not just Gainey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 (edited) Now I see Bob grasping and giving Souray some huge deal and wave buh bye to any 1st line centerman we had our hopes on. I'm gonna say this right now, we sign Souray we will be right back here come next year, outside looking in. If this happens Gainey better be on the first train outta town. Edited May 29, 2007 by OneSharpMarble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Niklas Lidstrom, Zdeno Chara, Scott Niedermayer, Chris Pronger and Rob Blake are the only defensemen in the league who make more than Andrei Markov. Don't know if that was the best move, although I wholeheartedly agree that Markov is the best defender on the team. I had a feeling that Gainey would be generous, but it seems a bit much for a player who has never made it to an allstar game and does not carry the pedigree of the individuals mentioned above. As someone mentioned above, Markov has not jumped into the first tier of NHL defensemen yet, but he's being paid like he has. Will it be the right move? Only time will tell, if Markov jumps into the top tier anytime soon that Gainey will be looking quite smart. If not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted May 29, 2007 Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 Now I see Bob grasping and giving Souray some huge deal and wave buh bye to any 1st line centerman we had our hopes on. I'm gonna say this right now, we sign Souray we will be right back here come next year, outside looking in. If this happens Gainey better be on the first train outta town. Not necessarily. Based on 10 mill going to both Markov and Souray, we had about 8 mill for a UFA. This is based on all the RFA's getting an average of 2 million each. Bonk and Johnson are out of this equation I believe. Niinimma, Aebischer etc. have been shed. That's why I think Gainey is going youth up (Chipchura) front and freeing up some money to get that "player". Problem is the 8 million bubble has now shrank to 5 million if Souray neeeds 6 mill. And, the 2 million average figure for UFA's is optimistic I will admit. But I figure that's the plan overall. The sheding might come in other ways. Gainey is going to be busy for sure. I think by October we shall be happy....farts and all. Trust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Niklas Lidstrom, Zdeno Chara, Scott Niedermayer, Chris Pronger and Rob Blake are the only defensemen in the league who make more than Andrei Markov. Hang on, I thought Jovanoski and Redden were well over $6 mil each? Better Markov than Jovo, at least. It's the contrast with Kaberle that makes me queasy. The two are comparables, and by that measure Bob just made John Ferguson Jr look like a genius for a signing that I found bloated at the time. Oh, well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 The money may be because he is our MVP really. It's arguable I know but when he's out of the lineup WE SUCK we had our biggest losing streaks when he was out of the lineup. Gainey paid what equates to market value - probably a lot less than he would have to on July 1st to get the same talent. Fact is every NHL manager is overpaying for defenceman of this calibre... not just Gainey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 say we are stubborn with Markov and play hard ball... July 1st, he signs @ 6M ANYWHERE!! ANY WHERE. ANY team would offer him 6M... Now now now... TRY, just TRY to get same quality for 5.75M... old man Rafalski? 1. would he want to sign here 2. next season, who'll be the best of the two, Markov or Rafalski? Markov is hitting is prime, Rafalski is slowly passing his prime. 3. Some say Markov is "soft"... Rafalski is smaller -> softer... who else? Hannan? not the same role at all... Hamrlik? :puke: Numminen, Timonen... for one season would have been cheaper... but it's one season and he's WAY WAY less efficient that a 10 years younger markov. Schneider for one season? again, we're tryign to build something... We can't build for the future if we sign a guy who'll retire anytime soon... These guys could replace Souray... but not Markov. other "bad" alternatives : Brisebois, Tjarnqvist, Hill, Ozolinsh, Rivet... So... all in all, we signed the BEST Dman available this summer for ONLY 5.75M. Look carefully at the other signings, and you'll think Markov is a good deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_faerie87 Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 say we are stubborn with Markov and play hard ball... July 1st, he signs @ 6M ANYWHERE!! ANY WHERE. ANY team would offer him 6M... Now now now... TRY, just TRY to get same quality for 5.75M... old man Rafalski? 1. would he want to sign here 2. next season, who'll be the best of the two, Markov or Rafalski? Markov is hitting is prime, Rafalski is slowly passing his prime. 3. Some say Markov is "soft"... Rafalski is smaller -> softer... who else? Hannan? not the same role at all... Hamrlik? :puke: Numminen, Timonen... for one season would have been cheaper... but it's one season and he's WAY WAY less efficient that a 10 years younger markov. Schneider for one season? again, we're tryign to build something... We can't build for the future if we sign a guy who'll retire anytime soon... These guys could replace Souray... but not Markov. other "bad" alternatives : Brisebois, Tjarnqvist, Hill, Ozolinsh, Rivet... So... all in all, we signed the BEST Dman available this summer for ONLY 5.75M. Look carefully at the other signings, and you'll think Markov is a good deal. Agreed. Honestly, there are only four defensemen who in my opinion are worth locking up for four years and are better than Markov: Niedermayer, Pronger, Redden and Chara. Lidstrom isn't on there because of his age and neither is Phaneuf because he's an RFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 say we are stubborn with Markov and play hard ball... July 1st, he signs @ 6M ANYWHERE!! ANY WHERE. ANY team would offer him 6M... Now now now... TRY, just TRY to get same quality for 5.75M... old man Rafalski? 1. would he want to sign here 2. next season, who'll be the best of the two, Markov or Rafalski? Markov is hitting is prime, Rafalski is slowly passing his prime. 3. Some say Markov is "soft"... Rafalski is smaller -> softer... who else? Hannan? not the same role at all... Hamrlik? :puke: Numminen, Timonen... for one season would have been cheaper... but it's one season and he's WAY WAY less efficient that a 10 years younger markov. Schneider for one season? again, we're tryign to build something... We can't build for the future if we sign a guy who'll retire anytime soon... These guys could replace Souray... but not Markov. other "bad" alternatives : Brisebois, Tjarnqvist, Hill, Ozolinsh, Rivet... So... all in all, we signed the BEST Dman available this summer for ONLY 5.75M. Look carefully at the other signings, and you'll think Markov is a good deal. You make a good argument, but where is the foresight? Did Gainey not look ahead to this summer and see that Souray and Markov would be the 2 most attractive Defensive Free Agents in 2007? Markov just got close to a 4 million dollar raise. We all knew how important he was last summer, why not offer him 4 million and get it done before hand. I know Bob has a policy of no negotiations throughout the season, but that leads to things like this. Maybe Markov was determined to test the market in which case my point is moot. But I still am a little discouraged that our favourite underated defenceman could have been signed for far less 6 months ago and Gainey let the market play him. Jesus, even Ferguson stole Kaberle for just over 4 million because he slightly overpaid him in February and watched him become underpaid within the next season. It was probably a fluke, but it was a great move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 You make a good argument, but where is the foresight? Did Gainey not look ahead to this summer and see that Souray and Markov would be the 2 most attractive Defensive Free Agents in 2007? Markov just got close to a 4 million dollar raise. We all knew how important he was last summer, why not offer him 4 million and get it done before hand. I know Bob has a policy of no negotiations throughout the season, but that leads to things like this. Maybe Markov was determined to test the market in which case my point is moot. But I still am a little discouraged that our favourite underated defenceman could have been signed for far less 6 months ago and Gainey let the market play him. Jesus, even Ferguson stole Kaberle for just over 4 million because he slightly overpaid him in February and watched him become underpaid within the next season. It was probably a fluke, but it was a great move. oh, for sure, and you think Meehan/Markov would accept 4M for 4-5 years, BEFORE the lucrative year? ya, right... it's no coincidence Markov contract came to an end RIGHT WHEN he became a UFA... it was all calculated by Meehan... Want another example from elsewhere? Paul Kariya signing for 1.2M for 1 year so that he could be UFA the next year at only 28. Want another example? there are plenty, just realise that there are TWO SIDES in negotiations and that the other side has some advantages to wait before signing... wait another year so that there are more arguments for a bigger contract. Why is Ryder signed year after year at 2M? cause he doesn't want to lock himself for more than 1 year at that salary, just in case he gets a 40 goals season (worth 4M?) so that even with the BEST FORESIGHT, no one could ever force him to sign for more than 1 year... unless, that is, you sign him for 4M for 4 years... but is Ryder worth 4M??? no way! Last season if we had wanted to buy Markov's "free agent status" we'd have had to offer... 23M for 4 years. Why? cause even though he hadn't had his "career year" yet, we'd have had to "overpay" (overpay at that time) to "force him" to sign before he got to the juicy status that he was, before signing the contract. There are two sides to negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 (edited) Regarding salaries, Jovo is at 7M, Redden at 6.5M. Neither have really played up to that standard at least this season. Alexstream- I agree with the general sentiment of your post, but not every team in the league could afford to give a player 6M. To be honest he would have gotten at least as much on the free agency market, a team like Edmonton would offer him whatever it took, but it's not like all 30 teams would be lining up with offers. Edited May 29, 2007 by smon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Agreed. Honestly, there are only four defensemen who in my opinion are worth locking up for four years and are better than Markov: Niedermayer, Pronger, Redden and Chara. Lidstrom isn't on there because of his age and neither is Phaneuf because he's an RFA. If Phaneuf is a RFA, why not offer him a 4 year $23M deal? If Calgary does not match (Calgary is cheap town) then HAbs have to give up draft choices. This guy is going to be another Pronger Type, but offensively gifted. Just my 2cents.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 say we are stubborn with Markov and play hard ball... July 1st, he signs @ 6M ANYWHERE!! ANY WHERE. ANY team would offer him 6M... Now now now... TRY, just TRY to get same quality for 5.75M... old man Rafalski? 1. would he want to sign here 2. next season, who'll be the best of the two, Markov or Rafalski? Markov is hitting is prime, Rafalski is slowly passing his prime. 3. Some say Markov is "soft"... Rafalski is smaller -> softer... who else? Hannan? not the same role at all... Hamrlik? :puke: Numminen, Timonen... for one season would have been cheaper... but it's one season and he's WAY WAY less efficient that a 10 years younger markov. Schneider for one season? again, we're tryign to build something... We can't build for the future if we sign a guy who'll retire anytime soon... These guys could replace Souray... but not Markov. other "bad" alternatives : Brisebois, Tjarnqvist, Hill, Ozolinsh, Rivet... So... all in all, we signed the BEST Dman available this summer for ONLY 5.75M. Look carefully at the other signings, and you'll think Markov is a good deal. This is exactly correct. Plus we still need to sign another D-man (Souray?). Furthermore, maybe none of these guys want to come to Montreal. There is going to be a biding war for them. Finally I am sure the cap will continue to rise and this deal will look better and better. Of course everyone (except Markov) would have prefered if he signed for less but I am very happy. I think we got a very good deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I really don't think Markov would have gotten more then $5M on the open market. There are very few defensemen in this league who are getting close to $6 or over and almost all of them were given those big contracts by their own team, not the open market. Yes, Chara got a lot on the open market, and the consensus seems to be that it was not worth it. While I am sure Markov would have been sought after by other teams, I think he would have been looking at a bunch of offers in the $5M range and selecting the team he felt most comfortable with. In my view, we paid a premium to convince him to stay in Montreal and not go to a team with better prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan24 Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I really don't think Markov would have gotten more then $5M on the open market. There are very few defensemen in this league who are getting close to $6 or over and almost all of them were given those big contracts by their own team, not the open market. Yes, Chara got a lot on the open market, and the consensus seems to be that it was not worth it. While I am sure Markov would have been sought after by other teams, I think he would have been looking at a bunch of offers in the $5M range and selecting the team he felt most comfortable with. In my view, we paid a premium to convince him to stay in Montreal and not go to a team with better prospects. There is no way Markov doesn't get more then $5 million on the open market. He is probably the best UFA Dman out there this summer. Give or take a bit of money (and remember by bit we are talking sports money "bit") the Habs kept the most important player. IMO ok maybe we paid a little bit to much but then I look at if we lose him and the damage it would do to this team for years down the road. Giving him an extra $1 million or $.75 million is nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsmith Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I like Markov enormously, but I don't see why people think he was guaranteed to get 6 mil on the open market. How many All Star games has Markov been to? None. That means a lot of people have rated him behind a lot of other defencemen. The one thing he really had in his favour was that a few teams (Mtl, Edm) are desperatly short of high-end d and are forced to overpay for it. And so we did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thib46 Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 There is no way Markov doesn't get more then $5 million on the open market. He is probably the best UFA Dman out there this summer. Give or take a bit of money (and remember by bit we are talking sports money "bit") the Habs kept the most important player. IMO ok maybe we paid a little bit to much but then I look at if we lose him and the damage it would do to this team for years down the road. Giving him an extra $1 million or $.75 million is nothing. Does Souray get the money because of his PP effectiveness, because his overall defense is average at best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I think we know all star games are about who fans like not necassarily who is the best player. See Fitzpatrick. Markov is one of the top 10 D in the league, bottom end but there. When forwards are interviewed his name comes up alot about the toughest D to play against. Souray will also get a pretty good size contract i just don't see the Hbas giving it to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan24 Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Does Souray get the money because of his PP effectiveness, because his overall defense is average at best? IMO I don't think he should....but I would not be surprised if he did. Although Sourays defense is average he does bring other things to the table such as his leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I really don't think Markov would have gotten more then $5M on the open market. There are very few defensemen in this league who are getting close to $6 or over and almost all of them were given those big contracts by their own team, not the open market. Yes, Chara got a lot on the open market, and the consensus seems to be that it was not worth it. While I am sure Markov would have been sought after by other teams, I think he would have been looking at a bunch of offers in the $5M range and selecting the team he felt most comfortable with. In my view, we paid a premium to convince him to stay in Montreal and not go to a team with better prospects. ok, I challenge you to find "benchmarks" in this year UFA market... Find a guy same age, slightly better (if there are), and another guy, same age, slightly lesser than Markov. OK THERE ARE NONE!!! HAHA... So let's just take Brian Rafalski, who's "achieved more" but is "worth less" because of his age. at 34, no one would offer him a 4 years contract... However, he could get a 2 years contract worth 10M... IF Rafalski gets 5M or above it means we got a good deal (because of all the circumstances: long term contract, Markov being younger, hitting his prime, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I am completely content with this deal. .250 higher than I thought he might get but the truth is, without him the Habs are screwed. Also, there are no replacements in this years UFA crop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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