Have we finally arrived or are we playing over our heads?

[tokyohabs]

We've arrived.

[Habsfan]

We've arrived.

Agreed! Go :hlogo: Go!!!

[brobin]

To be fair, I think the biggest positive factor this year has been team health. Most of the other teams have had some significant injuries to overcome, while we didn't (at least until now). That has allowed the Habs to get gain momentum and confidence. We also have had much better goaltending this year from Huet, Price, and Halak.

If the team was not so sick last year and Huet had not been injured so long, we would have ended up around 6th or 7th in the east last year. Think back to all the games Aebi tossed down the drain last year.

So I suspect that we were not as bad last year as it seemed, and we are not quite as good this year as it seems. Would we have swept the Bruins this year if they had all their players? What if we had been missing Kovalev for a month, like they missed Bergeron all year???

I would say we are improved from last year, but there is more improvement to go. We are clearly on the way up and a clear playoff bound team for the next few years, barring disaster. It is a fine line these days in the NHL. If Price blows a knee next year for 5 months, we could be fighting for a playoff spot. If Kovalev reverts to his old ways next year, we could be fighting for a playoff spot... Look at the Sens.. from Gods to Goats in a few months...

[The Iron Lung]

Playing over our heads?!?! What?!?!

#1 Offense, #1 Power Play, Division Champs, 3rd Best Road Record... and one of the younger teams in the league.

Some of you guys just can't accept the fact that we're one of the best teams in the league and will be for years to come. I just don't understand why you don't believe. Why are some of you so negative... constantly? I'd hate to have some of you as teammates.

[brobin]

Playing over our heads?!?! What?!?!

#1 Offense, #1 Power Play, Division Champs, 3rd Best Road Record... and one of the younger teams in the league.

Some of you guys just can't accept the fact that we're one of the best teams in the league and will be for years to come. I just don't understand why you don't believe. Why are some of you so negative... constantly? I'd hate to have some of you as teammates.

I don't think people are being negative, just realistic. We are a good team for sure, but the difference between us and number eight is not as great as you think. Welcome to the world of parity.

Remember that Ottawa has imploded. Boston is beaten up like crazy, etc. If they were in better shape, we could be in 6th place.

I am very happy with the team progress, but I don't think we are looking at a dynasty team just yet.

[TheAussiePosse]

We have the best record against the conference too.

Realistically, we're nowhere close to dynasty yet.

But with Gainey at the helm, Muller and Melanson commanding the lower deck, our young and loyal core manning tha sails, and our incredible scouting team (including the genius we plucked from Ottawa earlier last year) on the lookout, it could be the beginning of one.

< / ship analogies >

[Habsfan]

Playing over our heads?!?! What?!?!

#1 Offense, #1 Power Play, Division Champs, 3rd Best Road Record... and one of the younger teams in the league.

Some of you guys just can't accept the fact that we're one of the best teams in the league and will be for years to come. I just don't understand why you don't believe. Why are some of you so negative... constantly? I'd hate to have some of you as teammates.

Wax on, wax off. Breath In, Breath out! Geez buddy, take a breath there...you might just pass out!

I don't think people are being negative, just realistic. We are a good team for sure, but the difference between us and number eight is not as great as you think. Welcome to the world of parity.

Brobin is right. Had we only lost 3 games vs the Bruins this year ( a 5-3 record instead of an 8-0 record) the Habs would be second in the North East.

We aren't saying that the Habs aren't good. We're just saying that things are soooo close now in the "new" NHL, that anythign can happen any year! One big injury and the season could be done!

[InsaneHABSfan]

Those opposed to this being a good team should take a step back like I did and look at what they accomplished this year.

Forget the position they are in and the number of points.

1. Kovalev

2. Obyrne

3. Price

The team now has an offensive weapon. A new hard hitting defenceman to give Krex a break. A goaltender who is starting to prove he belongs.

What I noticed this year, beating NJD, beating Ottawa when it counts. No on ice spectacles like the Ribero chicken flop or the Kovalev disappearing act. Sure Ryder is not scoring but do you see how he checks now! Way to go Ryder...

The best thing about this team is that they are fast, fun to watch and made me put my foot in my mouth.

Way to go Habs, my un-scientific observations but they have captured my trust.

[warrior27]

First time post:

HABS are for real!

Stats say it all, Goals for #1 in the league. What I always remembered and still remember in hockey, you score more often than other teams, you end up winning more games.

Carey, priceless in pressure situations.

Alex K, turns it on whenever the teams needs

Sergei K, real deal, not afraid to mix it up

Begin, the human pinball machine

Saku, leader with all the heart in the world

Higgins, tough to get him off the puck when he wants it.

And so on and so on!

[The Iron Lung]

If.... had we... If... had they....

Let's stop living in possibilities and live in realities...

We've arrived. And we're gonna stay. Live with it. Stop looking for the exit.

[Wamsley01]

Wax on, wax off. Breath In, Breath out! Geez buddy, take a breath there...you might just pass out!

Brobin is right. Had we only lost 3 games vs the Bruins this year ( a 5-3 record instead of an 8-0 record) the Habs would be second in the North East.

We aren't saying that the Habs aren't good. We're just saying that things are soooo close now in the "new" NHL, that anythign can happen any year! One big injury and the season could be done!

Well, if we had gone 5-3 against the Bruins but beat Anaheim, San Jose and Dallas we would be in the same place.

WTF does that have to do with anything? The didn't just beat the Bruins, they destroyed the Bruins. They did what they did. Their record is what it is.

They have one of the youngest teams in the league and are 4th overall in the NHL. When do they arrive in some people's minds.

They finally made the leap this year, they believe in themselves, they won everytime we thought they would disappoint us and they

have a kid in Price who has stepped into the NHL at 20 and has been dominant ever since the pressure was dropped on him.

Two Kostitysn's, Plekanec, Latendresse, Lapierre, Komisarek, O'Byrne, Gorges, Higgins all are playing major roles. All of them are going to get better.

They have cap room next season and kids like Paccioretty, Subban, Chipchura, McDonagh etc waiting in the wings.

If you don't feel they have arrived, when will you? Another 100 point season? 3 straight 100 point seasons? A Stanley Cup?

Seeing as things are soooo close in the NHL now, when has a team really arrived? Can they ever?

Because any team that is good will be ripped apart after a couple of years and their depth compromised because of the cap if they don't have a strong farm.

If Jersey lost Brodeur for 5 months how would that effect them? Does that mean they have not arrived? If Crosby was out from November 1st until today instead

of just 10 weeks could the Pens have lost 8-10 points and be in 8th-10th? Does that mean the Pens have not arrived?

When will people believe in this team? In September it was a team that was going to barely make it, then it was when is the collapse, then it was we can't pass the Sens,

then it was well we can't beat Jersey/Rangers/Senators, then it is a mistake to trade Huet etc etc etc.

Jesus Christ, the team just won it's first division title in 16 years, it has a 20 year old goalie playing out of his mind, they came back from 5-0 to win a game, they

have vanquished the Devils and the Christmas road trip, scored 2 goals in the last 2 minutes to destroy the Sabres playoff drive and last night dominated a desperate

Sens team without Koivu and Komisarek.

Gainey has created a team that plays in a team concept, that has cap room, burgeoning stars a stocked farm system and top players locked into reasonable deals.

What else are we looking for? I would rather have this team's structure then the Penguins. We all know the Pens are going to lose at least one of Malkin, Crosby, Staal,

Hossa in the next year or two. Maybe more. Where is their farm depth?

ENJOY IT! For some of you it is the best Habs team of your life that you remember, for some it is the best ride we have been on in 15 years.

If you can't enjoy this without worrying about the legitimacy of this team then I don't know what to tell you.

Edited April 2, 2008 by Wamsley01

[simonus]

If you don't feel they have arrived, when will you? Another 100 point season? 3 straight 100 point seasons? A Stanley Cup?

a cup would be nice... but I get your meaning. I think this team has definitely shown this year that they are a power in the NHL and in a 30 team salary capped, early UFA league that is the most one can reasonably ask for. Of course I am unreasonable... I want cups on top of cups.

As far as the Bruins issue, take away every team's best series and see what happens to their record. I'd imagine most top teams have another team that they have owned this season (although probably not to the tune of 16 pts). Don't forget that the habs have been generally consistent throughout the season - no prolonged slumps.

Another great thing about the 2008 habs is that there is every reason to believe that the 2009 habs could be better.

[PMAC]

Well, if we had gone 5-3 against the Bruins but beat Anaheim, San Jose and Dallas we would be in the same place.

WTF does that have to do with anything? The didn't just beat the Bruins, they destroyed the Bruins. They did what they did. Their record is what it is.

They have one of the youngest teams in the league and are 4th overall in the NHL. When do they arrive in some people's minds.

They finally made the leap this year, they believe in themselves, they won everytime we thought they would disappoint us and they

have a kid in Price who has stepped into the NHL at 20 and has been dominant ever since the pressure was dropped on him.

Two Kostitysn's, Plekanec, Latendresse, Lapierre, Komisarek, O'Byrne, Gorges, Higgins all are playing major roles. All of them are going to get better.

They have cap room next season and kids like Paccioretty, Subban, Chipchura, McDonagh etc waiting in the wings.

If you don't feel they have arrived, when will you? Another 100 point season? 3 straight 100 point seasons? A Stanley Cup?

Seeing as things are soooo close in the NHL now, when has a team really arrived? Can they ever?

Because any team that is good will be ripped apart after a couple of years and their depth compromised because of the cap if they don't have a strong farm.

When will people believe in this team? In September it was a team that was going to barely make it, then it was when is the collapse, then it was we can't pass the Sens,

then it was well we can't beat Jersey/Rangers/Senators, then it is a mistake to trade Huet etc etc etc.

Jesus Christ, the team just won it's first division title in 16 years, it has a 20 year old goalie playing out of his mind, they came back from 5-0 to win a game, they

have vanquished the Devils and the Christmas road trip, scored 2 goals in the last 2 minutes to destroy the Sabres playoff drive and last night dominated a desperate

Sens team without Koivu and Komisarek.

ENJOY IT! For some of you it is the best Habs team of your life that you remember, for some it is the best ride we have been on in 15 years.

If you can't enjoy this without worrying about the legitimacy of this team then I don't know what to tell you.

What he said

[brobin]

The point about the bruins is that we went 8-0 because they were very injured. If they had the luck around injuries we had, who knows where they would be.

My point is we have a very good team and we had a GREAT year. The way you stay that way is not to think you have arrived, but to constantly push to get better. If Gainey sat back and said.. we are the best in the east, no changes needed, we could miss the playoffs next year.

We can't deny that we had very good luck this year. Last year we had horrible luck (Flu for example). I suggest that we were in the top eight last year if we had a bit better luck, and we are probably in the top 5 this year (ignoring the stupid division rankings). A few more injuries and we are not top in the east.

There are a several very good teams in the East now. Ottawa is better then they seem. Pens are amazing (even without Crosby, yikes), Boston has been impressive with all the injuries, Washington is looking like they are definitely on the way up the ladder, NYRs are a solid team, etc.

So when we say, have we arrived, it depends on what you mean. I think we have arrived in terms of being a legitimate contender. I don't think we can say we are a dynasty, or even Detroit (regular season). I think we have some good growth left in us however. We are getting better every year and we are young. It could well be us, Pens, and Washington duking it out for the next few years.

[KoZed]

Just to put things in perspective, "being arrived" in my mind has nothing to do with individual players achievements and little to do with regular season stats.

"Being arrived" is mostly about how a team reacts when facing challenges, so lot of it depends on the playoffs and pressure situations.

"Being arrived" has less to do with the 100 pts and N-E clinch and more to do with getting over NJ and Ottawa and that comeback from behind against the Rags.

"Being arrived" has lot to do with not allowing any major slumps and not being satisfied with sloppy performances even when they came out with a win.

"Being arrived" is to face challenges thrown at you but also challenging yourself.

This team is 2 playoffs series of being arrived. They don't make it to the Conference Finals, then their regular season's rank means little. They've raised the bar for themselves.

This team will be "arrived" when they get into a real deathmatch with the other top team of the East, whoever that may be.

[Easy Ryder]

There is still something missing for perennual success. But a sure enjoy this year ride.

A 1A Offensive prospect centre with size.

Other than that we have depth on net, d and wings.

After next year Kovalev, Koivu and Komisarek are UFA.

I don't mind taking Koivu 5.5 and add it to Komo salary but we still have to pay Kovy market value.

This is NHL reality, dynasty are hard to build. The higher we end up the lower we draft.

So keep graduating players, next year, Ryder gone makes room for Pac with a good camp and a contract.

And we will be arrived when Stanley will shine on Ste-Cat.

[Habsfan]

Calm down there Wamsley.

I do believe in this team, but I don'T think we can call them perenial contenders just yet. If they can pull the same thing off again next year...then that will change everyone's perspective of this team, but until they do so, there will always be doubters.

Edited April 2, 2008 by Habsfan

[Chris]

Yep, it's been a long 10 years. Even though i have seen the x by the the habs that they made the playoffs it's still hard for some to beleive in them. But that's what losing does.

I think they are 1 year ahead of schedule, i thought they would do something like this next year.

As many people have said, the future is bright with alot of talent. This is just the beginning.

The playoffs no matter how long they last will be a great experience for the youth.

Did i see Lats outskate someone last night? Anything is now possible

[Wamsley01]

The point about the bruins is that we went 8-0 because they were very injured. If they had the luck around injuries we had, who knows where they would be.

My point is we have a very good team and we had a GREAT year. The way you stay that way is not to think you have arrived, but to constantly push to get better. If Gainey sat back and said.. we are the best in the east, no changes needed, we could miss the playoffs next year.

We can't deny that we had very good luck this year. Last year we had horrible luck (Flu for example). I suggest that we were in the top eight last year if we had a bit better luck, and we are probably in the top 5 this year (ignoring the stupid division rankings). A few more injuries and we are not top in the east.

There are a several very good teams in the East now. Ottawa is better then they seem. Pens are amazing (even without Crosby, yikes), Boston has been impressive with all the injuries, Washington is looking like they are definitely on the way up the ladder, NYRs are a solid team, etc.

So when we say, have we arrived, it depends on what you mean. I think we have arrived in terms of being a legitimate contender. I don't think we can say we are a dynasty, or even Detroit (regular season). I think we have some good growth left in us however. We are getting better every year and we are young. It could well be us, Pens, and Washington duking it out for the next few years.

I think they have arrived as a contender. They have all the pieces to be a contender for an extended stretch.

I believe that Buffalo arrived and was destroyed from within by poor management decisions.

They were a legit contender built around a strong youth based core that made some terrible executive decisions.

And I think that next season they will return to the playoffs because their core is still strong.

Because they missed the playoffs last year does not alter their arrival in 2006.

When I read playing over our heads I agree that the Habs have received some fortune, and have reached the next stage

probably a year early. But it was a stage that was going to happen next year. So I consider it an early arrival, not a fortunate

season. All the tools are there, this team is legit.

As for Boston, well that shit happens every year. What was the Bruins excuse last season? It is 14 in a row is it not?

Last year Toronto had massive injuries and missed the playoffs by a point. Do we go over the Sabres/Sens records and try to descredit their

success last year based on their victories over the Leafs? What if Jersey had the 8 annual points they received from the Habs

removed from their record for the last 10 years? Would it have cost them a couple divisions? Some favourable playoff seedings?

Home ice advantage?

And in return, how would those results have changed some of the Canadiens fortunes over the last 7-8 years?

Would the Habs have snuck into the playoffs last season? Would they have made it in 2000? Could they have moved up

a couple spots instead of being a 7th or 8 seed?

Games are played, games are won and the result is recorded.

[Wamsley01]

Calm down there Wamsley.

I do believe in this team, but I don'T think we can call them perenial contenders just yet. If they can pull the same thing off again next year...then that will change everyone's perspective of this team, but until they do so, there will always be doubters.

I am completely calm. I just don't know why some dwell on the negative when the Habs just won the division.

If this was the 2002 Habs and Theodore was leading the charge and Dackell/Gilmour/Audette were all having career years

I would say this team was overachieving and had not arrived.

But this team has been slowly building to this and I tend to look at it differently than others.

I think the beginning of the ascent was when Gainey replaced Julien and lead them on that charge in 2006. They overachieved and provided

the glimpse. Last season was to be the next step. Unfortunately injuries, flu and youthful inconsistency (Carbo/players) cost them

the next rung on the ladder and they dropped one instead. Which lead us to everybody underestimating this team in 2008. Instead of grabbing the next rung on the

ladder they needed to grab 3 rungs. After a 4 rung leap everybody is in shock at what just happened.

That is why I think this team has arrived. And that is why I think they are legit.

Edited April 2, 2008 by Wamsley01

[brobin]

I don't think anyone is being negative. If saying "hey, I think we had a great year but I don't think we are all the way down the journey yet" is negative, then okay, call me negative.

I think we are ahead of schedule on the team's progress for two reasons. One, some on this team did just great and personally progressed more then expected (Pleks, Big ####, little ####, Streit, etc etc etc). Kovalev is being called comeback player of the year. Carbo went from rookie coach to damn good coach in one year. Second, we stayed healthy. We rarely challenged our depth much. That can't be denied.

I firmly believe however that you have not "arrived" until you have done it more then one year, you have fought through diversity, and you are feared. I think we are partially there, but not all the way.

Pittsburgh has probably arrived. I never would have thought that that team would be number one in the east missing Crosby for large chunks of the season. They are for real and I for one am very impressed with that team.

I will call the Habs "arrived" if they go deep in the playoffs, or if they do reasonable in the playoffs and do well again next year for several months.

It all depends on your definition of arrived. I don't disagree with most of the people who say they have arrived, I just disagree on the requirements to say so. Based on the requirements they state, they are right. So am I, based on my requirements.

I think we can all agree that a) the team has turned the corner and is enjoying success b) They are no longer "hanging in there" and c) They are way better then the leafs.

Edited April 2, 2008 by brobin

[Habsfan]

I will call the Habs "arrived" if they go deep in the playoffs, or if they do reasonable in the playoffs and do well again next year for several months.

It all depends on your definition of arrived. I don't disagree with most of the people who say they have arrived, I just disagree on the requirements to say so. Based on the requirements they state, they are right. So am I, based on my requirements.

Exactly what I was thinking! the Habs are good, but before we can say that they are in the same league as the Red Wings i'd like to see them make it far in this years playoffs, or have the same kind of season next year!

[Wamsley01]

I don't think anyone is being negative. If saying "hey, I think we had a great year but I don't think we are all the way down the journey yet" is negative, then okay, call me negative.

I think we are ahead of schedule on the team's progress for two reasons. One, some on this team did just great and personally progressed more then expected (Pleks, Big ####, little ####, Streit, etc etc etc). Kovalev is being called comeback player of the year. Carbo went from rookie coach to damn good coach in one year. Second, we stayed healthy. We rarely challenged our depth much. That can't be denied.

I firmly believe however that you have not "arrived" until you have done it more then one year, you have fought through diversity, and you are feared. I think we are partially there, but not all the way.

Pittsburgh has probably arrived. I never would have thought that that team would be number one in the east missing Crosby for large chunks of the season. They are for real and I for one am very impressed with that team.

I will call the Habs "arrived" if they go deep in the playoffs, or if they do reasonable in the playoffs and do well again next year for several months.

It all depends on your definition of arrived. I don't disagree with most of the people who say they have arrived, I just disagree on the requirements to say so. Based on the requirements they state, they are right. So am I, based on my requirements.

I think we can all agree that a) the team has turned the corner and is enjoying success b) They are no longer "hanging in there" and c) They are way better then the leafs.

I think they are ahead of schedule in that I did not forsee Ottawa's spectacular demise. But I stated before the year that in the next season or two they will

climb the ladder and appear as though they did so from nowhere (ie. Buffalo in 2006)

The only ascension I am really shocked about would be S. Kostitsyn, Gorges and to a lesser extent Andrei.

Pleks was pretty dominant in the second half last year, and AK46 showed he was going to be a factor when he played with Higgins and Pleks before he was injured.

Price, well I have been massaging his groin for 10 months now. Komisarek is no surprise either.

But I also feel that Higgins, Ryder and Koivu's major struggles have offset the reemergence of Kovalev and the rise of Kostitysn brothers.

I don't really think this is a major shock.

If everything had gone right, Kovalev would be leading our second line and they would be one of the most offensively dominant teams in years.

Although I feel they have had their share of fortune, they have not exactly caught lightning in a bottle.

[Wamsley01]

Exactly what I was thinking! the Habs are good, but before we can say that they are in the same league as the Red Wings i'd like to see them make it far in this years playoffs, or have the same kind of season next year!

Who is saying they are as good as the Wings? Who is year to year? How does a fan base that has won 3 rounds in 15 years

define arrival as being compared to a 3 time Cup winner and perennial President trophy winner?

They have arrived on the contender scene. That is arrived to me. This is the first time since 1994 that I actually thought Montreal

could legitimately win the Stanley Cup. Would they need some breaks? Probably, but every year since 1994 I knew that they

had no shot in hell.

Nobody will right them off next year as a fluke. With a series win and even a 7 game loss in round 2, coupled with a strong off season...

knowing TSN, THN, Sportsnet that would garner Cup buzz going into 2009!

The media is all over them, the league knows how good they are, and they know how good they are. That is my definition of arrival

Edited April 2, 2008 by Wamsley01

[Neech]

Yes we've arrived. It's reasonable to say that because we have a strong young core that is still improving. Several of these players made the quantum leap this year (Komisarek, Plekanec, Gorges), but who will make it next year? Latendresse? Andrei Kostitsyn (he made a big jump this year, but there's a lot more in him)? Sergei Kostitsyn (same as as his brother)? Guys like Markov and Higgins are still on the upswing as well. We also have a great prospects pool. This team is on the verge of being a powerhouse for several years.

But I'm also on the side of the cautious people. We were fortunate this year by being relatively injury-free. Plus, there was no one for real in the East this year. Those are the two main reasons that we're at the top of our division. Next year we can expect Boston to be better and less injured, same with Buffalo, Ottawa to maybe get their shit together, same with the Rangers, Pittsburgh's young stars to continue to improve, Florida and Washington to be on the rise... And maybe we won't be so lucky with injuries. There's no guarantee that we'll have home-ice going into the playoffs again, not by a long shot.

But yes, we've arrived.