I hope Bob Gainey is working to sign Huet

[Wamsley01]

You are a King among men.

Your posts in this thread are fantastic and I have loved most if not all of your contributions since you have started posting regularly.

I too am a huge fan of Wamsley01, even if I disagree with him on this specific point. (For instance, Kostityn has really only broken through in the last two months - but for a goalie to take 1/3 of a season to 'break through' could be enough to cost us a playoff spot; also, it's less a question of Price needing 2-3 years to be NHL-ready, and more of the value of giving him the soft landing of a platoon system of the sort enjoyed by Roy). All the same, he always makes a good case.

The feeling is mutual, their are many great posters on this board and you two are definitely among them.

I understand where you are coming from CC, but I will not deviate from what I see as the long term plan (not that it matters to BG).

I am excited about this hockey team right now, but also understand that 2 months ago you would never have uttered the words Stanley Cup in 2009.

So if this team is a Stanley Cup contender next season you really believe the markdown (which I am not convinced will be) from Huet to Price

will cost this team a playoff spot? You are talking a long drop. Look what Ottawa has achieved for years with a carousel of bad goaltending,

look at what the Red Wings used to accomplish with Chris Osgood, Philly with Cechmanek etc etc.

If this team is going to drop from 1st to 9th because of Carey Price, I hate to break it to you, but they were not going to win the Cup.

If going through growing pains with Price next year frees up 4-5 Million in cap space for the next 3 years then who cares. That money will either

A. Keep the core together or B. Add another piece to the puzzle.

Look at New England, by not signing Deion Branch to an overpriced contract last season and trading him for a pick they allowed themselves to

save his salary plus what his bonus would have counted towards the cap this season. That allowed them to add Randy Moss, Adalius Thomas and

Wes Welker. So it possibly cost them the title last season, but now they are 18-0 and a chance to go undefeated. It also gave them the ability to

sign 3 good players instead of one. And put them in a better position going forward.

I am not thinking short term. I am looking at the overall picture and not one of us believes Huet will be the starter in 2 years. So why pay him like a starter

for 4 years?

You are using Roy and his tandem as a comparison. Do you think that the Habs cannot acquire a Hayward type goalie to help him out for a year or 2?

Sign Cujo for 1M a season, or somebody along those lines.

You have had faith in Bo Gainey this far, you have had faith in Timmons. Now there are an abundance of young kids driving this team into a level

where we legitimately feel like they have a Stanley Cup chance. I think I will keep my faith in the guy who got ripped for drafting Price and watched

the kid make him look llike a genius.

The next time the Habs lift the Cup it will be Price yelling "I am going to Disney's Land" not Huet.

If you think it will be Huet (like Brobin), then pay him the money, it is the move to make.

But don't do it because you are afraid that Price will not be ready.

Edited February 3, 2008 by Wamsley01

[Neech]

Well ya. Bob typically tends to over sign players for aboot $500-750K more than they are worth per year. Thats why I say Huet will get 6 mil/yr. No clue why some people are he-ing and ha-ing aboot it. After all Broduer gets 5.25mil/yr. Sure Huet is no Broduer, but who is, not to mention that Broduer is grossly under paid so NJ can be competitive. It was more important to Broduer to make less so his team could remain competitive.

Dont forget that Luongo and Kabibulin get 6.75 mil/yr, DiPietro gets 4.5 mil/yr till he's like 60. Vokoun averages aboot 5.5/yr, Kipper is getting 8mil/yr and he wasnt even a UFA landing on a new team. Lundqvuist gets 4.25 and he is still a RFA. Last years cup winner Giguere gets 5.5, 5.5, 6, 7 mil in his contract. Huet at 6 mil a yr isnt completely unreasonable.

You just mentioned a bunch of goalies who are better than Huet and make 5-7 million a year, so I don't see how that makes a case for him earning that salary, if anything it shows why he should get less than that.

[Sir_Boagalott]

umm, no I didnt.

Your amusing.

Group 2: Turco, Miller, Lundqvist, Vokoun, DiPietro, Huet

According to ZoZed's ranking Huet is at par with these goalies.

btw Turco makes 5.5, 5.5, 5.7. Dal has been a contending team for a long time, but they never seem to do great in the playoffs so even Turco isnt really proven. Vokoun isnt, he's never come close to winning a playoffs series and neither has DiPietro and look at their contracts. Lundqvist is not even UFA eligable yet and look what he's getting, after his current contract is up he will be in the 6 mil ballpark. Luongo is in no way proven, in 7 seasons he's only seen the playoffs once and the series ending goal was almost identical to Stillmans goal on Huet. If you really want to argue even Kipper isnt bonifide, the Flames havent won a playoff series since their Cup run.

The only thing proven about Huet in the playoffs is that when an opponent shoves Huets head inbetween their legs and then jams their stick through Huets 5 hole he cant make a save. :puke:

Edited February 3, 2008 by Sir_Boagalott

[Neech]

The feeling is mutual, their are many great posters on this board and you two are definitely among them.

I understand where you are coming from CC, but I will not deviate from what I see as the long term plan (not that it matters to BG).

I am excited about this hockey team right now, but also understand that 2 months ago you would never have uttered the words Stanley Cup in 2009.

So if this team is a Stanley Cup contender next season you really believe the markdown (which I am not convinced will be) from Huet to Price

will cost this team a playoff spot? You are talking a long drop. Look what Ottawa has achieved for years with a carousel of bad goaltending,

look at what the Red Wings used to accomplish with Chris Osgood, Philly with Cechmanek etc etc.

If this team is going to drop from 1st to 9th because of Carey Price, I hate to break it to you, but they were not going to win the Cup.

Whoa, you are getting ahead of yourself bringing out the Ottawa and Detroit comparisons. We're nowhere near where they have been, being near the top of their conference for a decade or more. This team will not be a Stanley Cup contender without stellar goaltending, but I agree with you that that is most likely going to come from Price.

umm, no I didnt.

Your amusing.

According to ZoZed's ranking Huet is at par with these goalies.

btw Turco makes 5.5, 5.5, 5.7. Dal has been a contending team for a long time, but they never seem to do great in the playoffs so even Turco isnt really proven. Vokoun isnt, he's never come close to winning a playoffs series and neither has DiPietro and look at their contracts. Lundqvist is not even UFA eligable yet and look what he's getting, after his current contract is up he will be in the 6 mil ballpark. Luongo is in no way proven, in 7 seasons he's only seen the playoffs once and the series ending goal was almost identical to Stillmans goal on Huet. If you really want to argue even Kipper isnt bonifide, the Flames havent won a playoff series since their Cup run.

The only thing proven about Huet in the playoffs is that when an opponent shoves Huets head inbetween their legs and then jams their stick through Huets 5 hole he cant make a save. :puke:

Sorry, I didn't mean to question the infallible KoZed.

I disagree with his rankings, Huet would be in the third group of goalies. Every single goalie that you named is much more proven than Huet, they have either had several successful seasons starting the whole way through (which Huet has never done), or had playoff success (which Huet has never done). If Huet was on another team you'd classify him something like Leclaire or Backstrom, but it's hard to look past the home-town bias.

[Wamsley01]

Whoa, you are getting ahead of yourself bringing out the Ottawa and Detroit comparisons. We're nowhere near where they have been, being near the top of their conference for a decade or more. This team will not be a Stanley Cup contender without stellar goaltending, but I agree with you that that is most likely going to come from Price.

Sorry, I didn't mean to question the infallible KoZed.

I disagree with his rankings, Huet would be in the third group of goalies. Every single goalie that you named is much more proven than Huet, they have either had several successful seasons starting the whole way through (which Huet has never done), or had playoff success (which Huet has never done). If Huet was on another team you'd classify him something like Leclaire or Backstrom, but it's hard to look past the home-town bias.

Detroit was not at the top of their conference for a decade in the 90s when they sent out Chevaldae to do the job, nor were they a powerhouse when they sent Osgood out to do the job in 94, They were just ascending actually. When they began to dominate they won Cups in spite of Osgood, jesus one year they won the Cup when he let in 3 goals from centre ice in one playoff year. As for Ottawa, they began their ascent with Ron Tugnutt in 98 and settled on Lalime through the early 2000s. So the comparison is adequate to those teams as they were on the rise.

Take a look at the 1999-2001 Senators and tell me the comparison is not adequate.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues...0000542000.html

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues...0000542001.html

Those teams won 41 and 48 games with Patrick Lalime as their starter.

I could list a lot of teams who had 100 point regular seasons with average to bad starting goalies.

St. Louis - with Johnson and Turek

Philadelphia - with Boucher and Cechmaek

Boston - Raycroft, Dafoe and John Graham

Vancouver - Dan Cloutier

You can nitpick all you want, but you missed the point. Good teams can survive with average goaltending. Cucumber is worried that elevating Price could cost them a playoff spot, but at the same time is contemplating a Stanley Cup run in the same season. I am pointing out that success has been accomplished before with average goaltending. Other than Osgood in Detroit, it will cost you in the playoffs. But if the Habs are a Cup contender they will not miss the playoffs because of Carey Price.

[Habsfan]

I thikn the important question here is, Do you think that huet will take a hometown discount?? Will huet Accept a 2 year 8 million$ contract???

If he does, sign him. If he holds out for a 4 year contract, let him go. If you can compromise on a 3 year deal, that pays 13.5 million$ (MAXIMUM) then you thikn about keeping him for a year or two and then try to trade him(although that might be pretty hard).

My gut feeling is that Price will be ready for the starting job in Montreal by the end of next year(Feb. or Mar.) until then, we need a solid goalie, and Huet seems to be providing that this year!

[Shu]

Good article from TFP :hlogo:

Huet Article

[brobin]

Like I have said before, you are more conservative than I.

Alot of people thought AK46 was not going to be ready this year.

Alot of people thought Pleks ceiling was a 2nd line centre.

These were conversations from 6 months ago. So if you believe that Price is 2-3 years away that is your opinion.

I saw the kid win a Calder Cup with 4 games professional experience by dominating.

I saw him start off strong this year and win a handful of games on his own. So I don't think he is 2-3 years away.

And I am willing to bet that he is strong on his return to the NHL this season.

So if you want to give away $$ go ahead. But $4M a year could be the difference between keeping Komisarek, or Higgins

or Pleks, or Kostitsyn. So you guys continue to believe that you can just trade a goalie no problem and piss away cap money.

I disagree, I will disagree next season, and the season after.

You do not sign a goalie for 4 years and pay starters money unless you are going to start him for 4 years.

Agree, disagree I care not. Time will tell who is right. But from studying the NBA and the NFL you do not throw away

cap money because you are afraid. The reason you are looking at a possible 19-0 NFL team is because they were

aggressive and rid themselves of players that were about to A. either decline or B. had somebody cheaper to take their place.

The habs have 2 players who are cheaper and can take his place. If it costs you next year, it wont in 2 years.

Huet is not Luongo, Brodeur etc.

IMO, nothing is going to change it except for Huet winning the Conn Smythe trophy and the Habs winning the Cup.

I guess you can call me conservative, but I am not sure what you are saving. Regardless of having Huet, that doesn't stop Price from challenging for the job. Its not like we are going to lose Price if we sign Huet.

We have yet to spend to the cap in any case.

I suspect this just comes down to two things. You don't think Huet is a top goalie, and despite zero track record in the NHL, you think Price is. Hence you don't think you are taking much of a risk.

Regardless of whether you think this is high risk or low risk, I don't see signing Huet is hurting us in any way. Since we can't seem to sign expensive forwards anyway, and we have several guys with high salaries we can dump, I don't see any cap issue. Therefore, why take any risk?

[Sir_Boagalott]

I disagree with his rankings, Huet would be in the third group of goalies. Every single goalie that you named is much more proven than Huet, they have either had several successful seasons starting the whole way through (which Huet has never done), or had playoff success (which Huet has never done). If Huet was on another team you'd classify him something like Leclaire or Backstrom, but it's hard to look past the home-town bias.

Hahaha, again your funny.

DiPietro - 20, 10, 50, 62

Vokoun - 1, 37, 33 , 37,

Luongo - 24, 47, 58, 65,

These are the #'s of games they played in the 1st 4 year in the NHL. Basically on par with Huets 12, 41, 36, 42.

5, 20, 28, 58, 41 for Hasek.

In fact in 15 season Hasek has played over 70 games once (72), 60+ only 4 times, 50+ 3 times.

I definitely fail to see any correlation between Elite goaltenders and low amount of games played in the regular season with an inability to win the Cup.

[Neech]

Detroit was not at the top of their conference for a decade in the 90s when they sent out Chevaldae to do the job, nor were they a powerhouse when they sent Osgood out to do the job in 94, They were just ascending actually. When they began to dominate they won Cups in spite of Osgood, jesus one year they won the Cup when he let in 3 goals from centre ice in one playoff year. As for Ottawa, they began their ascent with Ron Tugnutt in 98 and settled on Lalime through the early 2000s. So the comparison is adequate to those teams as they were on the rise.

Take a look at the 1999-2001 Senators and tell me the comparison is not adequate.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues...0000542000.html

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues...0000542001.html

Those teams won 41 and 48 games with Patrick Lalime as their starter.

I could list a lot of teams who had 100 point regular seasons with average to bad starting goalies.

St. Louis - with Johnson and Turek

Philadelphia - with Boucher and Cechmaek

Boston - Raycroft, Dafoe and John Graham

Vancouver - Dan Cloutier

You can nitpick all you want, but you missed the point. Good teams can survive with average goaltending. Cucumber is worried that elevating Price could cost them a playoff spot, but at the same time is contemplating a Stanley Cup run in the same season. I am pointing out that success has been accomplished before with average goaltending. Other than Osgood in Detroit, it will cost you in the playoffs. But if the Habs are a Cup contender they will not miss the playoffs because of Carey Price.

Well you're getting ahead of yourself saying 'if the Habs are a Cup contender,' which next year they certainly are not UNLESS they get stellar goaltending. MAYBE we could survive with average goaltending, I guess we're doing it now, but we certainly won't get 100 points with average goaltending and we won't go anywhere in the playoffs with it either. That's where your comparison with Ottawa and Detroit fails, those teams were good enough to overcome it and get postseason results, whereas we aren't. Not this season, not the next.

Hahaha, again your funny.

DiPietro - 20, 10, 50, 62

Vokoun - 1, 37, 33 , 37,

Luongo - 24, 47, 58, 65,

These are the #'s of games they played in the 1st 4 year in the NHL. Basically on par with Huets 12, 41, 36, 42.

5, 20, 28, 58, 41 for Hasek.

In fact in 15 season Hasek has played over 70 games once (72), 60+ only 4 times, 50+ 3 times.

I definitely fail to see any correlation between Elite goaltenders and low amount of games played in the regular season with an inability to win the Cup.

No, good Sir, it is you who is funny.

For starters, you ignored my comment on the playoff success of the aforementioned goalies. But the main problem with your little comparison of the first four seasons of these players is that you forget that Huet is 32 at the end of his first four seasons and has yet to accomplish either durable starting or postseason success. It's one thing not to play many games when you're up and coming in your 20s, but Huet's next contract may very well be his last. Not to mention the fact that these goalies are all better than Huet. Honestly, Huet had that one half-season of excellence and since has been an average to good goalie, around 10th to 15th in the league.

And when Huet is anywhere near as good as Hasek was throughout his career, then you can say that his lack of durability is forgivable.

[Sir_Boagalott]

I swear if you keep this up you will be showcased on Just for Laughs.

No, I didnt ignore your playoff success comment of "Every single goalie that you named is much more proven than Huet, they have either had several successful seasons starting the whole way through (which Huet has never done), or had playoff success (which Huet has never done)."

The majority of goalies we are discussing never started an entire season in their 1st 4 years in the NHL but because Huet hasnt apparently its a huge issue. The majority of the goalies you say are way better and "proven" have never won a playoff series either, and they have had significant more years in the NHL than Huet.

Ironically you accuse me of forgetting his age when it is really you that is forgetting his age, and its not just you either. People seem to forget that almost all the goalies that are claimed to be more proven than Huet were all drafted in their teens when Huet was actually 25. So basically the other goalies have a 7 year head start on Huet to pad their stats against his. Dont you think this might have something to do with some of the other goalies being around longer and having slightly better NHL career stats?

Everything aboot Huet is comparable to the other goalies stats except for his age and I've just explained the reason for that. Huet is even at par with most goalies we are discussing in terms of All-Star game appearances when compared with years played in NHL. But no doubt that is also wrong.

[Neech]

I swear if you keep this up you will be showcased on Just for Laughs.

You must be easily amused. Are you also fascinated by balls of yarn?

No, I didnt ignore your playoff success comment of "Every single goalie that you named is much more proven than Huet, they have either had several successful seasons starting the whole way through (which Huet has never done), or had playoff success (which Huet has never done)."

The majority of goalies we are discussing never started an entire season in their 1st 4 years in the NHL but because Huet hasnt apparently its a huge issue. The majority of the goalies you say are way better and "proven" have never won a playoff series either, and they have had significant more years in the NHL than Huet.

But ALL of the goalies mentioned have done at least one of the two (I'll get to your little issue of years in the NHL). And it's really not all on the goalie if the team makes it to the playoffs, Luongo's way out of Huet's league but has only won one playoff series because of the teams he's been on.

Ironically you accuse me of forgetting his age when it is really you that is forgetting his age, and its not just you either. People seem to forget that almost all the goalies that are claimed to be more proven than Huet were all drafted in their teens when Huet was actually 25. So basically the other goalies have a 7 year head start on Huet to pad their stats against his. Dont you think this might have something to do with some of the other goalies being around longer and having slightly better NHL career stats?

How did I forget his age? I said he was 32, was I forgetful? And it is irrelevant that Huet was drafted so late, except to show that he is not as talented as other goalies (or simply a late-bloomer). And these goalies ARE more proven than Huet whether or not it's his fault that he came into the league so late. Having years in the NHL under your belt = proven, period. Basically your whole point here is irrelevant; it doesn't matter that these other guys got a 'head start,' what matters is that they all have more NHL experience than him. And they're younger.

Everything aboot Huet is comparable to the other goalies stats except for his age and I've just explained the reason for that. Huet is even at par with most goalies we are discussing in terms of All-Star game appearances when compared with years played in NHL. But no doubt that is also wrong.

No, the other goalies stats are not comparable to Huet's. They have had playoff success and full years of starting, he has not.

[Fat Tony]

To me, Gainey will not risk another Theodore fiasco by over paying Huet for too long a term. I say 4-4.5 million over one or two years is the most Huet gets,otherwise he gets moved. The one scenario I can see is 5 mil for one year, but I have to be honest...as good as Huey has been, I just don't think he's the guy to lead us to the promised land, sorry, but I've never thought he was. Anyway, Halak just got demoted to Hamilton according to RDS and although it hasn't been announced you can bet Price is already at the airport...so let the controversy begin anew

[Sir_Boagalott]

Neech why dont you go ahead and actually name which goalies you are talking aboot. Obviously they must be different from all the goalies I have talked about and listed stats for which are typical to Huets.

it is irrelevant that Huet was drafted so late, except to show that he is not as talented as other goalies (or simply a late-bloomer).

With comments like that and with the writers strike you might be able to get Lettermans spot with lines like that. Your too much. Please, stop, owe my stitches.

I guess you think that all the local rinks in France are buzzing with NHL scouts Eh. Its not just aboot talent its aboot having somebody notice you. Playing hockey in France wouldnt grant you any attention at all and even playing in Suis still wouldnt get you much and that is right now. It starting to change now but 14 years ago when Huet was 18 practically nobody watched anything going on in Suis let alone France. Its no wonder Huet wasnt found till he was 25.

Striet is 30 and drafted in 2004 so I guess he mustnt be talented either then.

having years in the NHL under your belt = proven, period.

Vokous has 9 years in the NHL so there is proof aboot him. He has proven that he cant last an entire season is what he's proved.

Huet is no good though because he cant finish a season though. Dont forget some of Huets early seasons he didnt get to play in lots of games because he wasnt actually the starter. Also Huet only took 2 years to go from being drafted to playing regularly in the NHL. The other goalies I mentioned 1 took 2 years, 1 took 3 years and the rest took 4+. But I guess thats just more proof Huet isnt in their league.

[Wamsley01]

Well you're getting ahead of yourself saying 'if the Habs are a Cup contender,' which next year they certainly are not UNLESS they get stellar goaltending. MAYBE we could survive with average goaltending, I guess we're doing it now, but we certainly won't get 100 points with average goaltending and we won't go anywhere in the playoffs with it either. That's where your comparison with Ottawa and Detroit fails, those teams were good enough to overcome it and get postseason results, whereas we aren't. Not this season, not the next.

No, good Sir, it is you who is funny.

That was directed at Cucumber who stated that he felt that they could possibly Cup contenders next season. It was directed at him to prove that good teams can be succesful with bad goaltending, Ottawa and Detroit are both good examples

from their early years. Detroit had early failures in the playoffs as a direct result from weak goaltending, as did the Senators, but it did not stop them from putting up 100 point seasons.

Cucumber is fearful of an inexperienced Price being a weak link on a team that could contend for the Cup and cost them a playoff spot.

If you are not going to look at what I posted in the context of our conversation than you can pick apart at will.

Edited February 4, 2008 by Wamsley01

[Neech]

Neech why dont you go ahead and actually name which goalies you are talking aboot. Obviously they must be different from all the goalies I have talked about and listed stats for which are typical to Huets.

With comments like that and with the writers strike you might be able to get Lettermans spot with lines like that. Your too much. Please, stop, owe my stitches.

No, I will not owe you stitches, get your own.

Ok, here are the goalies that YOU mentioned in that initial post:

Brodeur - no comparison with Huet, obviously

Luongo - not much playoff success (although more than Huet), but also clearly in another league

Khabibulin - has started many seasons, has won a Cup

Dipietro - has started complete seasons and is currently better than Huet

Vokoun - has started complete seasons, around Huet's level (I'd say V. is better)

Kipprusof - has started complete seasons and has playoff success

Giguere - has started complete seasons and has won a Cup

Lundqvist - has started a complete season and more than Huet overall, has more playoff experience along with winning an Olympic Gold, is around Huet's level but I and most others would rate him better

See how ALL of them have more experience than Huet, most of them both in starting complete seasons and in playoff experience.

I guess you think that all the local rinks in France are buzzing with NHL scouts Eh. Its not just aboot talent its aboot having somebody notice you. Playing hockey in France wouldnt grant you any attention at all and even playing in Suis still wouldnt get you much and that is right now. It starting to change now but 14 years ago when Huet was 18 practically nobody watched anything going on in Suis let alone France. Its no wonder Huet wasnt found till he was 25.

Germany isn't a hotbed of hockey, but Kolzig managed to get drafted young. Great talents manage to get noticed wherever they are. I'm not saying Huet isn't talented, he may just be a late-bloomer, but the fact that he was drafted late doesn't work to his defense here, at best it is irrelevant.

Huet is no good though because he cant finish a season though. Dont forget some of Huets early seasons he didnt get to play in lots of games because he wasnt actually the starter. Also Huet only took 2 years to go from being drafted to playing regularly in the NHL. The other goalies I mentioned 1 took 2 years, 1 took 3 years and the rest took 4+. But I guess thats just more proof Huet isnt in their league.

Dude, listen to your defenses of him. "He didn't get to play because he wasn't the starter." Scott Clemmensen is nodding in agreement; the fact of the matter is that if he was good enough to be the starter then he would have started. He also would have made the leap to the NHL quicker if he was good enough. He would have been drafted sooner if he was good enough. Seriously, you have yet to prove why these facts work to his defense at ALL. We rate Huet's worth based on what he has DONE, not on which breaks he did or did not have.

That was directed at Cucumber who stated that he felt that they could possibly Cup contenders next season. It was directed at him to prove that good teams can be succesful with bad goaltending, Ottawa and Detroit are both good examples

from their early years. Detroit had early failures in the playoffs as a direct result from weak goaltending, as did the Senators, but it did not stop them from putting up 100 point seasons.

Cucumber is fearful of an inexperienced Price being a weak link on a team that could contend for the Cup and cost them a playoff spot.

If you are not going to look at what I posted in the context of our conversation than you can pick apart at will.

No, I don't think I'm reading out of context here. He said they could conceivably contend for the Cup, and implied that they wouldn't be able to with a question mark in goal (i.e. Price), and this might even keep them out of the playoffs. You stretched his meaning, in my opinion, by saying that a Cup contender won't miss the playoffs because of mediocre goaltending. I think he meant that this team could contend with good goaltending, but questionable goaltending could keep them from even making the playoffs. More like Calgary or maybe Colorado this year than Ottawa or Detroit. I think he used those teams more as examples of bad goaltending keeping back a good team than really comparing our team to theirs.

[Wamsley01]

I guess you can call me conservative, but I am not sure what you are saving. Regardless of having Huet, that doesn't stop Price from challenging for the job. Its not like we are going to lose Price if we sign Huet.

We have yet to spend to the cap in any case.

I suspect this just comes down to two things. You don't think Huet is a top goalie, and despite zero track record in the NHL, you think Price is. Hence you don't think you are taking much of a risk.

Regardless of whether you think this is high risk or low risk, I don't see signing Huet is hurting us in any way. Since we can't seem to sign expensive forwards anyway, and we have several guys with high salaries we can dump, I don't see any cap issue. Therefore, why take any risk?

If you want to view things in the now, you are welcome to that.

I don't think Price is a top NHL goalie right now, but I think he can reach Huet's level within the next calendar year. I don't think Huet is elite.

So I don't understand the logic that will pay a guy starter money for 4 years when he will not be a starter for 4 years.

You think the cap is not an issue, well take a look at the Flames right now.

What if Price is the backup next year and then has a breakout year in 2010? Is that way out of the realm of possibility?

So now in the new climate of the NHL where GMs are fearful of other teams signing RFA offer sheets the Habs afraid to lose him sign him to 5-6M per year.

Now the Habs have Price and Huet locked up for the next 2 seasons at over 10M just for their goaltending.

Now at the same time the season before Higgins, Komisarek and Plekanec will all be up for raises from their 1.7M per season.

Latendresse will be looking at a raise, as will both Kostitsyn brothers, Lapierre, O'Byrne, Chipchura, etc

Koivu and Kovalev will either be re-upped at the same salaries or will be replaced.

So the salary structure of this team is really unknown at this time. All it takes is one of those guys to have a breakout season before an RFA season

and you could be looking at a $7M player. Bob might go out and sign a $9M player.

So why throw money at a goalie who may be the starter for 1 of those 4 seasons?

It does not make sense. If you want him to be the starter for all 4 years then pay Huet the money. But the Habs have already begun the process

of Carey Price taking over. All of their actions lean in that direction.

I guarantee you that 13 months ago if I told you Price was going to be the WJC MVP and step in at 19 and win the Calder Cup and MVP you would have told me

I am full of shit. So now because of a 3-4 rough outings, a kid who has rocketed to stardom is viewed as so fragile that the Habs MUST sign Huet to

a 4 year deal?

This is all fear and not based in smart cap manipulation. The new NHL system does not allow for luxuries of keeping and paying 2 starting goalies.

If Huet will not sign for 2 years or less, there is the door. This is a business decision. Unfortunately the new NHL involves business and money decisions.

Live in the past, get left behind

[Wamsley01]

No, I don't think I'm reading out of context here. He said they could conceivably contend for the Cup, and implied that they wouldn't be able to with a question mark in goal (i.e. Price), and this might even keep them out of the playoffs. You stretched his meaning, in my opinion, by saying that a Cup contender won't miss the playoffs because of mediocre goaltending. I think he meant that this team could contend with good goaltending, but questionable goaltending could keep them from even making the playoffs. More like Calgary or maybe Colorado this year than Ottawa or Detroit. I think he used those teams more as examples of bad goaltending keeping back a good team than really comparing our team to theirs.

Like I said, take a look at Ottawa's 2000-2001 roster and tell me that they are not comparable to Montreal's emerging talent right now.

Was that team a Cup contender? Did that team start Lalime 60 games? Did that team manage 100 points? in 2001 was that Ottawa team a contender for 10 years?

The comparison is not a stretch. You are entitled to disagree, I stand by it.

[Neech]

Like I said, take a look at Ottawa's 2000-2001 roster and tell me that they are not comparable to Montreal's emerging talent right now.

Was that team a Cup contender? Did that team start Lalime 60 games? Did that team manage 100 points? in 2001 was that Ottawa team a contender for 10 years?

The comparison is not a stretch. You are entitled to disagree, I stand by it.

Yeah, they're comparable and that comparison isn't a stretch (although you could make a worthy comparison with many other teams which would illustrate a different point). What I said is that you stretched his meaning, by saying that such a Cup contender wouldn't miss the playoffs because of average goaltending, while what I took it to mean was that this team could contend for the Cup with good goaltending, but it also could miss the playoffs with a question mark in goal.

But anyways, I hope your comparison is apt and that we do in fact have a young team comparable to the Sens of that era (and it looks like it could be), but that Price turns out to be the next Brodeur as well.

[Wamsley01]

Yeah, they're comparable and that comparison isn't a stretch (although you could make a worthy comparison with many other teams which would illustrate a different point). What I said is that you stretched his meaning, by saying that such a Cup contender wouldn't miss the playoffs because of average goaltending, while what I took it to mean was that this team could contend for the Cup with good goaltending, but it also could miss the playoffs with a question mark in goal.

But anyways, I hope your comparison is apt and that we do in fact have a young team comparable to the Sens of that era (and it looks like it could be), but that Price turns out to be the next Brodeur as well.

I hope Price is the next Brodeur, but he does not have to be to justify not signing Hu-ET to a long term deal.

If Price turns out to be what a lot of us think he can be, well we will probably be celebrating a Cup in the next 5-10 years.

[SAKS-AVENUE]

I hope Price is the next Brodeur, but he does not have to be to justify not signing Hu-ET to a long term deal.

If Price turns out to be what a lot of us think he can be, well we will probably be celebrating a Cup in the next 5-10 years.

Huet's fate in Montreal is obvious. He knows that the open market will put more money in his wallet then Gainey will even consider. The writing is on the wall.

Price and Halak both have the tools to play well for an NHL team. I think Gainey, like he did with Souray will make a fair offer but in the end Huet will walk, or maby sign him and trade him at the draft table in June.

Montreal will go with Price next year for sure. As a back up plan should Price stumble we'll have Halak, and just to have some sort of insurance like Gainey does every year he'll sign a veteran for reasonable money for depth. Much like Calgary signed CuJo. The stage that the Habs are at? this just seems to be the smartest thing to do. The only way it will change is if like Walmsley said before "Huet wins the Conn Smythe trophy" but that's not going to happen because if Montreal goes that deep in the play-offs Saku will get the trophy. (sorry had to put that in)lol

The only other option we have that could change this, would be if there is a team that really wants Huet. Gainey could trade the rights to negotiate early to that team, much like Nashville and Philly did with Timmonen and Hartnell, but that is more of a May, June thing.

Hopefully Gainey does something creative so that we get a return, but Montreal won't need Huet next year so why kill cap space for nothing.

Welcome to the NEW NHL.

[brobin]

I hope Price is the next Brodeur, but he does not have to be to justify not signing Hu-ET to a long term deal.

If Price turns out to be what a lot of us think he can be, well we will probably be celebrating a Cup in the next 5-10 years.

What if Price doesn't turn out to be what you hope and we let Huet go? We will be in the hunt for a goalie again and look like the friggin leafs. Raycroft anyone?

I firmly believe that Huet will be tradable if Price breaks out. Certainly it won't be worse then Sammy and could be resolved with a waiver trade.

There are lots of goalies that have dominated in the AHL but either never made it at the nhl level, or took way longer then predicted to make it.

All I know is that Huet has proved to me that he is a very good goalie, just below what people call elite (and I think there might be 3 elite goalies) Price has me giddy with excitement for the future, but he has proven nothing!!!!!

People seem to bash Huet because he has not proven he can win a cup, like Brodeur, Kipper, etc.. well... Price hasn't done it either.

If people wanted us to sign Luongo instead of Huet, I could understand the argument, but that is not the case.

The argument seems to be.. let's save cap room on Huet and put all our marbles in the basket called Price. The same people saying this are saying "Four years for Huet.. yikes, don't gamble on that because IF Price is great next year, we will have an extra goalie salary"

I only see one risk in signing Huet. That risk is that he pulls a Theo and tanks. At least in this case, we have Price to come up and replace him. More importantly, I have seen no indication Huet is a one season wonder. He has bad games and sets of games just like all the elite goalies out there. People in Vancouver would tell you that Luongo was washed up at the start of the season, same with Brodeur who struggled.

So while Huet has not won the cup to convince some people he is for real, he hasn't lost a cup when he should have won it either. There was a time when Brodeur was a good goalie who never won anything. Same with Hasek, etc.

I do like this debate, I can just imagine this whole conversation rattling around in Gainey's brain every day as he tries to decide this one. We should just be thankful we are not him, because he is not going to make many people happy regardless of his decision.

[Sir_Boagalott]

Brodeur - no comparison with Huet, obviously <-- Broduer is for sure better, but his 1st 4 years are indeed comparable to Huets

Luongo - not much playoff success (although more than Huet), but also clearly in another league <-- only has 4 60+ game seasons in 7 years, made playoffs once, 1st 4 yrs in NHL comparable to Huet

Khabibulin - has started many seasons, has won a Cup

Dipietro - has started complete seasons and is currently better than Huet <-- 63 games max, not exactly a complete season, hasnt won a playoff series, 1st 3 years comparable to Huets

Vokoun - has started complete seasons, around Huet's level (I'd say V. is better) <--- has 3 60+ game seasons in 9 years, has never won playoff sreries, 1st 5 years comparable to Huets 4

Kipprusof - has started complete seasons and has playoff success <--- 2 70+ seasons, drafted in 95 played in NHL in 01 (5 games), 1st 4 seasons didnt play over 50 games, just like Huet

Giguere - has started complete seasons and has won a Cup <-- 2 60+ game seasons, 1st 5 seasons played a lot less than Huet

Lundqvist - has started a complete season and more than Huet overall, has more playoff experience along with winning an Olympic Gold, is around Huet's level but I and most others would rate him better <-- drafted in 00, didnt play NHL until 06, Huet ascended to NHL faster

See how ALL of them have more experience than Huet, most of them both in starting complete seasons and in playoff experience. <-- no really, the stats dont say that

Case and point that you clearly know what your talking aboot:

Germany isn't a hotbed of hockey, but Kolzig managed to get drafted young. Great talents manage to get noticed wherever they are. I'm not saying Huet isn't talented, he may just be a late-bloomer, but the fact that he was drafted late doesn't work to his defense here, at best it is irrelevant.

rotflmfao.

It must have been uber hard for him to get noticed by Pro scouts while playing Junior in North America. Olaf Kolzig played Junior with the Tri-City Americans in the Western Hockey League.

Kolzig is as much German as Alex Steen is Swedish. Kolzig was born in Johannesburg, South Africa. His parents are of German descent. Both Kolzig and Steen have lived basically their entire lives not residing in the countries they represent in World competitions. I'm sure both speak considerably better English than they do their own Euro language.

"He didn't get to play because he wasn't the starter." Scott Clemmensen is nodding in agreement; the fact of the matter is that if he was good enough to be the starter then he would have started. He also would have made the leap to the NHL quicker if he was good enough. He would have been drafted sooner if he was good enough. Seriously, you have yet to prove why these facts work to his defense at ALL.

umm, so just who is the last goalie to go from the AHL directly to being the bonifide #1 starter? Lundqvists 53 games in his rookie year is the most out of all the goalies we are discussing but he took 3 times as long as Huet from being drafted to playing in NHL. All goalies start off slow and dont go directly to 70 games in their 1st season. They are all worked into the NHL slowly not as fast as possible. Listen to what your claiming. Huet is the starter so therefore Price is no good? People read way to much into Huet not having played a complete season. According to you Bryzgalov must suck because he backed up Giguere. Did the Coyotes not sky rocket up the standings after they nabbed Bryz off waivers? Bryz has 1,1, 31, 27 in his 1st 4 years, but has a playoff shutout streak of 229 minutes, 42 seconds which bests Giguere's streak of 217:54 in the 2003 playoffs but Bryz is his backup.

Whatever you do dont take into account any team politics at all. Things like contracts, salary, trade value, etc of that happens when a team has a really good starter and a great backup. If Huet was getting paid 8 mil a year do you think Price would take over his job if Price was considerably better than Huet? No, they'd probably wait till next year. If the do opt to go with Price over Huet than Huets trade value would decrease because he wouldnt be getting the chance to be regularly showing off what he can do. There are all sorts of intricate variables that all go way over your head. Bryz was Gigis backup because Gigi made millions compared to Bryz so why would the highest paid player rid the pine when they are close to the same skill level?

Dude, listen to your defenses of him. "He didn't get to play because he wasn't the starter." Scott Clemmensen is nodding in agreement; the fact of the matter is that if he was good enough to be the starter then he would have started. He also would have made the leap to the NHL quicker if he was good enough. He would have been drafted sooner if he was good enough. Seriously, you have yet to prove why these facts work to his defense at ALL. We rate Huet's worth based on what he has DONE, not on which breaks he did or did not have.

Basically every single goalie we are discussing with the exception of Lundqvist and Khabibulin did not play any complete seasons in their 1st 4 years in the NHL. There is absolutely nothing unusual aboot this. The people who claim this is a huge issue need to get over it. Ranking a goalie by complete games played in 1st 4 years would mean Patrick Roy wouldnt be an elite goalie because he wasnt good enough to play a complete season until he was 6 years in the NHL. (1, 47, 46, 45, 48, 54, 48) and Broduers had 4, 47, 40 in his 1st 3 years. Roy and Broduer are the 2 best goalies since Pelle Lindberg who ironically was 8, 40, 36.

If you truly believe the numbers of games played in a goalies 1st few years in the NHL is the end all be all determining stat of an Elite goalie than your life must be like a box of Chocolates.

[Wamsley01]

Brodeur - no comparison with Huet, obviously <-- Broduer is for sure better, but his 1st 4 years are indeed comparable to Huets

Luongo - not much playoff success (although more than Huet), but also clearly in another league <-- only has 4 60+ game seasons in 7 years, made playoffs once, 1st 4 yrs in NHL comparable to Huet

Khabibulin - has started many seasons, has won a Cup

Dipietro - has started complete seasons and is currently better than Huet <-- 63 games max, not exactly a complete season, hasnt won a playoff series, 1st 3 years comparable to Huets

Vokoun - has started complete seasons, around Huet's level (I'd say V. is better) <--- has 3 60+ game seasons in 9 years, has never won playoff sreries, 1st 5 years comparable to Huets 4

Kipprusof - has started complete seasons and has playoff success <--- 2 70+ seasons, drafted in 95 played in NHL in 01 (5 games), 1st 4 seasons didnt play over 50 games, just like Huet

Giguere - has started complete seasons and has won a Cup <-- 2 60+ game seasons, 1st 5 seasons played a lot less than Huet

Lundqvist - has started a complete season and more than Huet overall, has more playoff experience along with winning an Olympic Gold, is around Huet's level but I and most others would rate him better <-- drafted in 00, didnt play NHL until 06, Huet ascended to NHL faster

You are comparing Huet from the age of 28-33 as his first 4 years to Broduer, Luongo, Dipietro, Vokoun, Giguere and Lundqvist as 20-25 year olds?????

You do realize the comparison should be when Brodeur was winning a Stanely Cup at 23 that Huet was playing for Grenoble and Lugano right.

Luongo is just entering Huet's entry level years, Lundqvist is only 26, Dipietro is only 26, Giguere is 30.

Compare Brodeur's numbers from age 28-33 to Huet's. See how that turns out for you. I don't see two Stanley Cups on Huet's resume.

Does anybody here think it is a legitimate comparison to look at Roy when he was 20, 2 years removed from his draft class and Huet as a 28 year old??

28-32 is an athlete's prime. You are comparing Huet's prime to kids who are adjusting to living on their own for the first time, growing into their bodies, adjusting to the spotlight and learning the life of a pro athlete.

Edited February 4, 2008 by Wamsley01

[sbhatt]

you can bet Price is already at the airport...so let the controversy begin anew

Price would have to play a lot better than he did in his last stint for there to be any real controversy.