BTH Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 You've really oughtta calm down, Colin. We know you're a big fan of Koivu but he does deserve blame when he doesn't play well. Huet was blamed. Kovalev was blamed. Ryder was blamed. Higgins was blamed. Price was blamed. Gui was blamed. etc.. (Plekanec is NOT blamed because he is NOT slumping) Saying we should get rid of him for a pick is another story. But people have the right to be upset with their captain playing this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Ok, I completed misunderstood the purpose of the Fantasy World forum. Well done, Colin. You and I share the same frustrations with some common postings. Koivu deserves his fair share of criticism, but it isn't necessary or fair to surface in every conceivable manner. And I concur that Pleks isn't slumping. He just needs to keep working hard (as he has done consistently this year) and the points will come. Hitting the empty nets would help greatly in this department. I just hope that Pleks doesn't think he's slumping and mess with his confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAussiePosse Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 You go into the Prospects section of the boards: "Wow, we have a lot of talent on the farm, sell Koivu for a donzen wings with hot sauce and let's call up a centre!" The French section: "Not French enough to be the captain of the Habs, therefore he's no good and should be traded for a few practice sticks." The NHL section: "Poll: Forsberg or Lindros - who would you rather have? I dunno, but they're both better than Koivu, so we should trade him for some pantyhose and a garter and try to bring Lindros out of retirement." Fantasy World section: "I fantasize about getting rid of Koivu." HWL: "Wow, his numbers are hugely inflated. He's not that good. He should be about 70-35-61 OA. Leadership of 12." Even The Lounge: "X-Box or Playstation? Who cares, just trade Koivu already, dammit!" LMAO! I need to start reading these message boards again, some of these posts are hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Come on now, if Koivu had 2 pts in 9 games and was -7 over that span, I bet too many of you would be screaming slump. But I digress, there is no question Plekanec is having a fantastic year. I think it's possible to be a fan of both, anyway. Good points Colin, there's frankly so much drivel and hate being expounded on the team captain. BTH, sure people can be upset. But it's a little unnerving that there's so many people rushing out of the woodwork demanding that he be driven out of town. Have some faith. And if people can't, then fine, but it's ridiculous with the same threads constantly going about Koivu. No one knows why he was struggling this year (heck, he probably doesn't know) but he seems to be getting back into gear and that's obviously best for him and the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesgm Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 well I guess surviving cancer, a career threatening eye injury, multiple career threatening knee injuries and playing on cruddy teams almost his entire career and still managing .576 PPG over his carrer equals a "free-bash" ticket The Canadiens fan base is sometimes really messed when it comes to a season to season basis or even a game to game basis. It is common to see the team go on a 5 game tear and when they lose 1 game the sky is falling? The problem with all this "bashing" is that Koivu is not doing that badly. He is still on pace for his usual amount of PPG and he is the CAPTAIn of a team that is one of the tightest knit in the whole NHL. I can deal with the stupid penalties as many players take them. SOURAY was a main culprit of stupid penalties but he was never bashed religiously like Koivu is being this season. ppl need to get their heads out of their butts in this case. Is it because he doesnt speak French, other than penalties which should NOPT be an issue. I do not see any reason to bash him? AM I MISSING SOMETHING? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) We're in control of our own destiny. This squad is offensively lethal. We all know that the Habs in the regular season are David Banner. It's HULK in the playoffs. There's no time to worry. Only a time to stand behind them and watch them prevail :hlogo: Plekanec is too good for this. He's hasn't even peaked yet Edited February 29, 2008 by Athlétique.Canadien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Plex will be allright, because if need be, Kovy will bank one in off of him to break his scoring drought...he's that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Why can't we all just get along. They all suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 There's no time to worry. "HAVEN'T GOT TIME TO BLEED" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) Well done, Colin. You and I share the same frustrations with some common postings. Koivu deserves his fair share of criticism, but it isn't necessary or fair to surface in every conceivable manner. What you guys don'T seem to be able to see is that This is NOT A THREAD ABOUT KOIVU. I did not start this thread so Koivu lovers can come hear to bash Koivu haters. ppl need to get their heads out of their butts in this case. Is it because he doesnt speak French, other than penalties which should NOPT be an issue. I do not see any reason to bash him? I think you'Re the one who needs to get his head out of his ass. Keep the Koivu talk out of this thread. Once again, this thread is about plex. If you wanna talk about Koivu, i'm sure there are 20 other threads about our dear captain! Edited February 29, 2008 by Habsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) Plekanec is now facing checking lines more often than not, I am sure he will adapt. True, the rest of the league finally realized that the Plek line is the real #1 line. I am a little worried about Koivu to tell you the truth. Watch Koivu. The old Koivu would fight along the boards, take hits and dig for pucks to make the play. His production has gone up, but he avoids checks like the plague now. I believe he is playing hurt, and has been for a while. Haha, I just read the rest of the thread after my origional post. I am not worried about Plek. (natural segway to #2 centre) however, I am worried about........................... SAKU KOIVU Edited February 29, 2008 by BCHabnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) You've really oughtta calm down, Colin. We know you're a big fan of Koivu but he does deserve blame when he doesn't play well. Huet was blamed. Kovalev was blamed. Ryder was blamed. Higgins was blamed. Price was blamed. Gui was blamed. etc.. (Plekanec is NOT blamed because he is NOT slumping) Saying we should get rid of him for a pick is another story. But people have the right to be upset with their captain playing this way. I try to avoid making these kinds of comments, but your post on Koivu was/is just so ... that I have to criticize it. Koivu deserves no credit for our place in the standings? He has completely failed in his duties as a captain? Give me, and Koivu, a break. Bash Koivu's play if you want although that is improving. Teams whose captain's have failed are not challenging for # 1 in their conference. Bashing a player's performance and claiming that an influential and well respected Captain has done nothing for the team is another. Blame, maybe. Complete dismissal of his role on the team, overdone Edited February 29, 2008 by PMAC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 What you guys don'T seem to be able to see is that This is NOT A THREAD ABOUT KOIVU. I did not start this thread so Koivu lovers can come hear to bash Koivu haters. I think you'Re the one who needs to get his head out of his ass. Keep the Koivu talk out of this thread. Once again, this thread is about plex. If you wanna talk about Koivu, i'm sure there are 20 other threads about our dear captain! And to balance my response to the Koivu- bashing. There is nothing wrong with Plex. Chill people. As long as he continues to play hard the goals and assists will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Gread read colin glad to have you back around!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Thanks! I apologize for hijacking your thread. I was actually trying to make a point (albeit sarcastic) regarding how well I thought Plex was doing, but I guess that was lost when the Koivu stuff started rolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 You've really oughtta calm down, Colin. We know you're a big fan of Koivu but he does deserve blame when he doesn't play well. Huet was blamed. Kovalev was blamed. Ryder was blamed. Higgins was blamed. Price was blamed. Gui was blamed. etc.. (Plekanec is NOT blamed because he is NOT slumping) Saying we should get rid of him for a pick is another story. But people have the right to be upset with their captain playing this way. Did I absolve him of blame? Absolutely not. He has slumped this season, of that there's no doubt. However your blanket statements and comments about his total uselessness were frustrating. Am I a fan of Koivu? Yes. Am I a blind fan of Koivu? I don't believe so. Perhaps I'll give him the benefit of the doubt more often than would some others, but I believe he's earned that respect after everything he's done on the ice in the past. And remember, I said 'benefit of the doubt' and not 'free pass for lousy play.' In particular, I really dislike your last sentence. Perhaps it's just laziness on your part, but you say that fans have the right to be upset when he's "playing this way." You mean 8 points in his last seven games? If you're going to continue making point after point in an argument, it'd be best if you made sure the tense you were using was correct, because when you say he's playing badly now? Well, it makes your argument soft, because it's quite apparent he's doing anything BUT playing poorly now. Unless, of course, I'm completely incorrect and all his points have been second assists after pucks accidentally bounce off him to the eventual goalscorer and his goals were dump ins that the goalie misplayed off a defender into the net. And finally, for the record, I'm completely calm. I'm just tired of sitting idly by while people spout off blanket statements derived from obvious bias. ~~ And to get on topic, I don't think anyone has to worry about Plex. Quite honestly, he's a great player who, interestingly enough, works hard every shift like a certain Saku Koivu has done for about 90% of his career. Or has everyone forgot the really lean years when it was ONLY Koivu out there working his buns off. Ah yes, forgotten because really, what have you done for me lately. Fickle Habs fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAKS-AVENUE Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) Nope! but of course a big lot of you are. Let's argue about it! :puke: Edited February 29, 2008 by SAKS-AVENUE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 And to get on topic, I don't think anyone has to worry about Plex. Quite honestly, he's a great player who, interestingly enough, works hard every shift like a certain Saku Koivu has done for about 90% of his career. Or has everyone forgot the really lean years when it was ONLY Koivu out there working his buns off. Ah yes, forgotten because really, what have you done for me lately. Fickle Habs fans. Thanks for the breath of fresh air Colin. Fickle we can be even myself at times, which is why I try to calm down after a bad game or stretch and just read and laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Fickle we can be even myself at times, which is why I try to calm down after a bad game or stretch and just read and laugh. Especially this year, that's been my approach. After a loss, or even a few straight losses, I come on here and feel the need to remind everyone: where did we think this team would be at this point? We'd have been happy with 7th, most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesgm Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I think you'Re the one who needs to get his head out of his ass. Keep the Koivu talk out of this thread. ok...so why the need to attack me? It is obvious that this has turned into a Koivu discussion thread so I think YOU need to wake up and smell the roses man! Honestly, did I attack you? NO! if this is what you want: Plex is a good player and he is bound to struggle and slump occasionaly as he is not an ELITE talent. If he didnt have at least one or two slumps a season he would not be a GOOD player he would be a SUPERSTAR, and he is not a SUPERSTAR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I try to avoid making these kinds of comments, but your post on Koivu was/is just so ... that I have to criticize it. Koivu deserves no credit for our place in the standings? He has completely failed in his duties as a captain? Give me, and Koivu, a break. Bash Koivu's play if you want although that is improving. Teams whose captain's have failed are not challenging for # 1 in their conference. Bashing a player's performance and claiming that an influential and well respected Captain has done nothing for the team is another. Blame, maybe. Complete dismissal of his role on the team, overdone The fact is that if he were playing that way he is supposed to, we would be doing even better than we are now. Arguably our team's most major flaw is that only one line has been scoring. If you're making a list of all the people who've contributed most to our season, where does Koivu fall on the list? Probably somewhere around the middle. He hasn't been playing well enough, what more is there to say? If he starts playing better, everyone will be happy. But for now, even with a couple of recent multi-point games, we need more from him - and from his entire line, actually. Imagine how good we'd be if Higgins, Koivu and Ryder had all done as well as we expected them to! We'd probably finish 1st in the East. I mostly credit the "second" line of Kostitsyn, Plekanec and Kovalev for more or less saving our season and holding the fort until the other trio gets (or got, for Colin who is convinced the slump is over) back to from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 The fact is that if he were playing that way he is supposed to, we would be doing even better than we are now. Arguably our team's most major flaw is that only one line has been scoring. If you're making a list of all the people who've contributed most to our season, where does Koivu fall on the list? Probably somewhere around the middle. He hasn't been playing well enough, what more is there to say? If he starts playing better, everyone will be happy. But for now, even with a couple of recent multi-point games, we need more from him - and from his entire line, actually. Imagine how good we'd be if Higgins, Koivu and Ryder had all done as well as we expected them to! We'd probably finish 1st in the East. I mostly credit the "second" line of Kostitsyn, Plekanec and Kovalev for more or less saving our season and holding the fort until the other trio gets (or got, for Colin who is convinced the slump is over) back to from. That is a post I can't argue with. What I was objecting to was the complete dismissal of Koivu's captaincy. He is a captain who is struggling to score not a failing captain. Failing captain's go down with the ship and lead their teams to empty victories when the playoff race is already a memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 The fact is that if he were playing that way he is supposed to, we would be doing even better than we are now. Arguably our team's most major flaw is that only one line has been scoring. If you're making a list of all the people who've contributed most to our season, where does Koivu fall on the list? Probably somewhere around the middle. He hasn't been playing well enough, what more is there to say? If he starts playing better, everyone will be happy. But for now, even with a couple of recent multi-point games, we need more from him - and from his entire line, actually. Imagine how good we'd be if Higgins, Koivu and Ryder had all done as well as we expected them to! We'd probably finish 1st in the East. I mostly credit the "second" line of Kostitsyn, Plekanec and Kovalev for more or less saving our season and holding the fort until the other trio gets (or got, for Colin who is convinced the slump is over) back to from. But now you've just contradicted yourself. Is he completely useless as you've stated repeatedly until this post, or is he somewhere in the middle of the pack in terms of usefulness? If you're going to make a consistent argument that people will sit down, read, and take note, then you might want to make sure you're making the same point post in and post out. What I'm gathering here is that your original posts were much like the Montreal media - alarmist and over-reactionist and meant solely to raise the ire of others. Do you know why Habs fans (and media) are considered the worst of any sporting franchise on the planet? Another point: If Plex scores a goal next game, I guess there will be global relief that he's out of his slump, but Koivu scores 8 points in 7 games, and if we read between the lines of your statement in your final paragraph, you're convinced Koivu is still slumping and that it's just me thinking he's out of his slump. If Koivu doesn't score a point for the next few games, but plays extraordinarily well - like Plex has been doing despite his scoring slump - is that good enough for him, or do we hold Koivu to a different standard because of his salary and captaincy? Or do we hold him to a different standard because of bias, among other things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) But now you've just contradicted yourself. Is he completely useless as you've stated repeatedly until this post, or is he somewhere in the middle of the pack in terms of usefulness? If you're going to make a consistent argument that people will sit down, read, and take note, then you might want to make sure you're making the same point post in and post out. What I'm gathering here is that your original posts were much like the Montreal media - alarmist and over-reactionist and meant solely to raise the ire of others. Do you know why Habs fans (and media) are considered the worst of any sporting franchise on the planet? Another point: If Plex scores a goal next game, I guess there will be global relief that he's out of his slump, but Koivu scores 8 points in 7 games, and if we read between the lines of your statement in your final paragraph, you're convinced Koivu is still slumping and that it's just me thinking he's out of his slump. If Koivu doesn't score a point for the next few games, but plays extraordinarily well - like Plex has been doing despite his scoring slump - is that good enough for him, or do we hold Koivu to a different standard because of his salary and captaincy? Or do we hold him to a different standard because of bias, among other things? Don't know how accurate that is, among the worst yes, but Yankee, Red Sox, Cowboys, Leaf and Laker fans are just as revolting. And I am a fan of 2 of those teams. But I am nitpicking, Koivu has been good the last couple of weeks. But I do fear his best days are behind him, all the shit his body has been through could take their toll very quick. Blown knee numerous times, chemotherapy and eye surgery. I think it would be unrealistic to expect this guy to have the body of a regular 33 year old. Edited February 29, 2008 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 But now you've just contradicted yourself. Is he completely useless as you've stated repeatedly until this post, or is he somewhere in the middle of the pack in terms of usefulness? If you're going to make a consistent argument that people will sit down, read, and take note, then you might want to make sure you're making the same point post in and post out. In my other post, when I said the words "total non-factor" you misunderstood the words. I said I would rather he was a total non-factor than if he does a tad of offence combined with a lot of penalty minutes. Really, the main thing I have against him is the penalties - he has more PIM than Komisarek! If he had an average amount of PIM (and less stupid penalties in the offensive zone) while going at the same scoring pace, that's a decent season for him and for a second line centre and I am atleast satisfied. But is that what he's doing? He had a 40 game stretch in which if you weigh up his offensive (and defensive) production, take into account his PIMs and his +/-, where you have to wonder how much was he helping the team during that stretch. Now, that is half a season! Is there such thing as a slump that lasts half a season? What I'm gathering here is that your original posts were much like the Montreal media - alarmist and over-reactionist and meant solely to raise the ire of others. Do you know why Habs fans (and media) are considered the worst of any sporting franchise on the planet? I was not being reactionary at all considering Koivu had two points last game. If it was a knee-jerk reaction I would wait for Koivu to have a bad game and then start screaming about how much he sucks. In fact, I never really said anything bad about Koivu to begin with, you came into the thread frustrated with why Plekanec was "given a free pass" (for not being in a slump? ) while no one gives Koivu a chance. For the record, I have nothing at all against Koivu, but he is playing poorly and I'm not so sure he deserves a free pass for his overall play this year. If you are so defensive of the guy that you refuse to hear any criticism, maybe it's you being a bit biased for Koivu. Another point: If Plex scores a goal next game, I guess there will be global relief that he's out of his slump, but Koivu scores 8 points in 7 games, and if we read between the lines of your statement in your final paragraph, you're convinced Koivu is still slumping and that it's just me thinking he's out of his slump. If Koivu doesn't score a point for the next few games, but plays extraordinarily well - like Plex has been doing despite his scoring slump - is that good enough for him, or do we hold Koivu to a different standard because of his salary and captaincy? Or do we hold him to a different standard because of bias, among other things? I am not convinced Koivu is still slumping, that is just you being paranoid that someone might be taking shots at your hero. I am simply not convinced that he won't get into another slump. IF Plekanec scores a goal tonight and ends his imaginary slump, I will be happy. If Koivu scores a goal I will be equally happy - they both count for 1 goal for the Habs. If Koivu doesn't score but plays extraodinarily well, I will be happy with his play. I love Josh Gorges and look how many points he has, I used to love Jan Bulis and look how many points he had. I like players that we can rely on, and usually that means Koivu but this season, in general, I think we've relied more on other players, namely Kovalev. Now, stop ruining this poor guy's thread and save it for the next time I talk to you on YIM. (How was curling last night? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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