Habs @ Senators | Game Thread

[rafikz]

What a game !!!!

[dark_faerie87]

LOL, Tanguay wins it on the most obvious move ever... I am going to back hand it at you... ready.. ready... score.. lol

Full marks for that glove save by Price...

Sometimes the simplest moves are the most effective. :king:

[Habsfan]

Thank You Carey Price for allowinf the habs to not only pick up one point, but thanks for making that HUGE save against Ruutu.

Nice goal by Tanguay...a little on the weird side, but nice nonetheless!

[sbhatt]

Not a very impressive effort...but better than it has been lately, and got a much needed two points.

If they play like this against Boston, they won't be getting any points.

[JLP]

Spectacular save by Price, weird but effective shot by Tanguay. I suppose he wanted to suggest a deke? Very heavy on the stick heheh.

[Wamsley01]

Sometimes the simplest moves are the most effective. :king:

I can tell you as a goaltender that Auld was anticipating a move to the forehand and

guessed wrong. It made him look really bad but it was a great decision by Tanguay.

Auld guessed on Koivu as well, if Koivu had pulled to the forehand he would have had

an easy goal.

Unbelievable stop by Price, I thought that was in for sure.

[MMPL]

Good shootout!!

Still though, we have not played a full 60 this year other than that one Sens game and that Leaf game at the start of year is hard to count.

Get ready for Saturday boys, and BGL warm up them fists

Edited November 21, 2008 by MMPL

[rafikz]

The Sportsnet guys were dis-gus-ted

^_^

[brobin]

2 points, but that effort will lead to a huge embarrassment on Saturday. Will be a real shame on the Roy's night.

[Colin]

Just perused the game thread and I was a little disappointed to see so many negative remarks. Yes, for sure it wasn't a spectacular game, but I'm not sure why people didn't awknowledge the obvious improvement in the team. As compared to last game the effort was better almost all the way around and, despite some naysayers, I thought the lines were much more cohesive.

In particular, I enjoyed the effort from the Koivu-Lats-Tangs line, and I list Tangs last because he was mediocre until late, as I saw it. I sincerely hope there are a few less people on Koivu's back after this one - you saw him encouraging on the bench and also planning; he scored the goal; he was giving hits. Maybe he's not everyone's choice as the best leader, and I can respect opinions, but I would be surprised if fans failed to see him elevate for this one.

I'm highly disappointed in Plekanec and Kovalev - they're mere shadows of what they were last season. Plex has become sadly perimeter and Kovalev isn't giving the second effort that made him so successful. I hope he reads these things, because he apparently likes to prove people wrong. Prove me wrong Alex - put forth that massive effort.

I do agree with the comment that says that one PP in a game means there was less effort, however I'd like to asterisk that comment by saying these refs were particularly permissive. I'm not complaining about them, but the PP situation was one for the Habs and five for the Sens. That's not a whole lot in this NHL.

Carey Price was otherworldly again, that shootout save was one of two or three absolutely outstanding saves. He's making all those clutch saves that allow teams the opportunity to win every night - even when they probably don't deserve it. Josh Georges has impressed me greatly these last couple of games, and he's catching up by leaps and bounds to Komisarek in terms of confidence and overall play. That's not a knock at Komi either; Georges is just playing that well.

O'Byrne, on the other hand, seems to be struggling a little. I'm not sure I'd go so far as to take him out of the lineup, but maybe shortening his ice time and letting him play in situations where he's likely to succeed would be the best for now. Carbo likes to run all four lines and all six d-men most of the game. Maybe O'Byrne needs to be spot shifted against lesser talented lines to boost his confidence. He'd also probably benefit from some more concerted work with footspeed, however I think that's an offseason endeavour.

Over the course of the last few games I've seen modest improvements in the Belarussian duo. The younger moreso than the older, but the older wasn't struggling nearly as much (despite the scoresheet). Andrei, in my opinion, is struggling more because he's been shifted from line to line to line and can't get chemistry. He seems the type of player to thrive when he can go where he needs to go and see the puck appear because someone understands him. While he has oodles of one-on-one game, I don't think he can rely on it night in and night out to create innumerable chances. Sergei, on the other hand, at least seemed to give a poop tonight where last game he was aloof.

I realize that coaches do like to shorten the bench at critical times in the game, and Carbo is no different. As much as he rolls four lines as much as any coach in the NHL, he does keep off some players towards the end of close games. In this one, I was a little disappointed. I thought Laraque showed more spark tonight than at any other point this season. His feet were moving far faster and he didn't look out of place so much. Begin as well was agitating well and, while I'm not a fight fan, I appreciated his joust as a demonstration of the effort he offered.

Speaking of what I said about Andrei and chemistry, I think the same can be said for Higgins. KoZed has said before that he only seems to click with Koivu, and I think that's probably true because he's mostly played with Koivu. He needs to find a spot on another line, stick there for a good 20 games, and develop that chemistry with someone else. I found it very telling when the Ottawa commentators said that no one on the Habs played on the same line as they did 9 days ago. That, in my opinion, is not good coaching. You cannot develop chemistry that way. I hope Carbo leaves lines basically set from now.

Which brings me full circle to Koivu-Lats-Tangs who were Montreal's best. And while Koivu was pretty much Koivu, I was particularly pleased that, where Tangs may not have been quite as good as usual, Lats was much, much better than I've seen in a while. He was not only winning his battles, but he was using his size to protect the puck and create plays. By holding on a little longer he was able to tire opponents, and with two shifty linemates, his work offered more than a few chances.

If Price gets player of the game from me, then Lats can have the second star. Interesting that the Sportsnet team supported Markov as first star. His game wasn't nearly where it should be in my opinion. Boy I'd hate to be a Sens fan when he gets back to his game.

Perhaps as a fan-base we need to step back and see things in small chunks rather than larger trends. From last game to this game? Massive improvement. There were hits, people were digging twice as hard, and battles were actually won. In fact, this game was rather like the early season games when they won because of skill, and not because of any overriding work ethic. However the improvement was tangible, in my opinion.

And that is trending upwards - even if it's only a two game trend.

[Habsfan]

Not a very impressive effort...but better than it has been lately, and got a much needed two points.

If they play like this against Boston, they won't be getting any points.

Saturday's game will be a huge test for our boys. I am looking forward to see if our boys will come out strong, and try to beat the Bruins at their own game(good forechecking, and lots of bodychecks)!

Once again Colin, Your post was awesome. I' not saying I agreed with all of it, but I do agree with most of it! Especially about the Koivu-Lats-Tanguay line.

I also enjoyed Begin's fight, he got 2 or 3 left handed hooks in that really knocked the sens player down. Carey was awesome tonight. He might have only faced 25 shots, but he made some incredible saves in teh game and during the shootout!

I sure hope Kovy and Plex can get their act together, however I will not panic in this case either. All kovy needs is a couple of multi-point games, and he's back to 1 point per game. Let's not forget that maybe if Plex wasn't struggling as much this year, Kovy might have a few more points as well. I am not saying that all the blame should eb put on Plex's shoulders, I'm just saying that Kovy isn't the only who should be blamed why the Plex-Kovy_Ak46 line isn't clicking this year!

Edited November 21, 2008 by Habsfan

[MMPL]

The Sportsnet guys were dis-gus-ted

^_^

Haha, what was the funniest thing they said?

[lazy26]

I agree that tonight's effort was slightly better than what we've seen in the past, but it's quite clear that the boys have lost their confidence... the shot total shows that they're afraid to try anything.

The biggest disappointments tonight were the puck battles along the boards. This has been an ongoing theme throughout the year: MTL seems to lose far more battles in every zone, and as a result, don't establish possession as much as they should. Even if we won half as many as we've been averaging, I have to believe that our scoring output would be much, much higher.

Kovalev was a close second in disappointment. If I could have reached through the screen to throttle him after that Sen non-goal I would have. I am starting to wonder if he's just lazy, or if he's injured and labouring as a result.

On the plus side, Price was outstanding (2nd goal aside) and he truly kept the Habs in this game tonight. I thought Lats, the 4th line and Gorges were the bright spots as well. Markov, although not playing his best hockey, was playing better than he has been lately.

I have to agree with the overwhelming forum sentiment: we're gonna need a MUCH better effort against Boston on Saturday.

Nice to get the win though. Tanguay's SO goal was sneaky. I think Auld read it as a high shot and you could see his frustration at the misread. Backhand shots are so difficult to predict for goalies.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

The issues surrounding the team were not solved tonight. Granted, they played better defensively than they have recently. They did isolate the Ottawa attack and isolate passing zones. The PK was effective. That's a good sign too. Koivu was awesome tonight.

Overall, the key I believe is to play a better game dumping the puck more and having the D in the same zone as the forwards. Working as a 5 man unit. It's also important for the D to be responsible in the (red line) offensive zone to hang back when necessary. That helped them tonight. They played that rather well. Good sign.

The problem with this game for the Habs is that they played trench war with a potentially explosive "Pizza line" team. However, the Sens have not scored many goals lately (have we?). They are the Eastern Conference bums. They took us to a shootout. After this victory I don't feel so confident.

It's time to get the offence going and get some set lines!!! It'd also be nice to see Montreal control and lead in puck possession stats. Far too often they give the puck away on an (not during a change) errant offensive play. I'm still confused with the coaches not getting them to basics.

The best news is overall their game did take a leap positively/defensively/PK wise.

IMO - either put the bros. together or don't Guy. Maybe I'm wrong about that but if not them, please stop flipping lines. It isn't helping

[saskhab]

I didn't catch much of the 3rd, but the guys are definitely trying to set things straight. There was a simplicity in their actions which was refreshing. There weren't a ton of turnovers.

It's a start.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Gorges was everywhere tonight. Was he here? I think I might have tripped over him getting a beer out of the fridge tonight

[rafikz]

Haha, what was the funniest thing they said?

It's not what they said, it's how they were talking...*funerals*

Also, in Hockeycentral, they thought the goal cancellation (when Kovy was called for a penalty) was a bad call

[MFT77]

I thought it was a ugly win tonite that was hardly deserved, but i guess 2 points is 2 points.

Great job by Gorges tonite in logging 27 minutes and also kudos to Begin, Kostopolous and Koivu.

Need to step it up against the B's on Saturday or it will be a long night.

[ForumGhost]

Great effort tonight, what an improvement. Not a shooting gallery, but the chances were there for both sides.

Smart move by Tanguay if you think about how the shot works. He immediately brings it to a position where he can slide it 5 hole and Auld can see it it coming, but if he commits to the butterfly too soon it's an easy backhand flip in for Tanguay. Then as he closes the distance, there was no way Auld would ever have a chance to drop in time since it's up to Tanguay to make the first move and the distance between them is so short.

Edited November 21, 2008 by ForumGhost

[nam]

Side note from being at the game. I did get on the Kiss cam, damn g/f cut it short left me hanging. And I did get into it with Sparty, he uses that tail as a weapon! Tanguay was the best forward out there, Begin and Kostopolous are always working, the Kostitsyns make some little plays together that I never noticed before and am still not sure how they pull it off. Price was spectacular....again. Not sure if Georges will ever score a goal, he had a chance or two, but he is one of only a few that is always physical and will keep the puck in at the offensive blueline. I have a pile of pic's, will see how I can load them for everyone to see. I also have video of all the Canadiens shoot-out attempts, I was in the Ottawa corner so I saw all of the Canadiens goals. There were more habs fans then sens fans in the building and around the city it seemed, always out numbering the home team no matter where we were.

[KoZed]

In particular, I enjoyed the effort from the Koivu-Lats-Tangs line, and I list Tangs last because he was mediocre until late, as I saw it. I sincerely hope there are a few less people on Koivu's back after this one - you saw him encouraging on the bench and also planning; he scored the goal; he was giving hits. Maybe he's not everyone's choice as the best leader, and I can respect opinions, but I would be surprised if fans failed to see him elevate for this one.

I'm glad Koivu had a good game. But Carbo still had to say to the medias that he was waiting for someone to stand up and pull the team before someone actually did it. There's a sense of urgency the players are lacking.

I'm highly disappointed in Plekanec and Kovalev - they're mere shadows of what they were last season. Plex has become sadly perimeter and Kovalev isn't giving the second effort that made him so successful. I hope he reads these things, because he apparently likes to prove people wrong. Prove me wrong Alex - put forth that massive effort.

Plex needs to get away from Kovy. He's starting to play too much for Kovy again, like last year before that line started to click. I have a solution for this, I'll get back to it later down this post.

Carey Price was otherworldly again, that shootout save was one of two or three absolutely outstanding saves. He's making all those clutch saves that allow teams the opportunity to win every night - even when they probably don't deserve it. Josh Georges has impressed me greatly these last couple of games, and he's catching up by leaps and bounds to Komisarek in terms of confidence and overall play. That's not a knock at Komi either; Georges is just playing that well.

That's two things this team needs: for the one player the closest to be considered a franchise player (Price) to be a huge difference maker and not just play well, but steal wins.

And you also always needs overachievers like Gorges. The guy was never drafted, never was a highly touted prospect, he was merely a thrown-in in the Rivet deal, was a 7th D for almost a year... and now he's basically filling in for one of the best D in the league (Komo). He sort of reminds me of Robidas. Dude coming out of nowhere without any special set of skills and just making a place for himself by sheer will. Those type of guys can look anyone in the dressing room and say "do your job" with all the credibility in the world.

Speaking of what I said about Andrei and chemistry, I think the same can be said for Higgins. KoZed has said before that he only seems to click with Koivu, and I think that's probably true because he's mostly played with Koivu. He needs to find a spot on another line, stick there for a good 20 games, and develop that chemistry with someone else. I found it very telling when the Ottawa commentators said that no one on the Habs played on the same line as they did 9 days ago. That, in my opinion, is not good coaching. You cannot develop chemistry that way. I hope Carbo leaves lines basically set from now.

2 part answer:

1) The Higgins thing. There's one exception to the rule: Higgins-Plekanec-AKostitsyn. That line clicked well 2 seasons ago when nothing was working on offense. It's at that moment that Higgins & Plex cemented their NHL status. Seems to me that those guys are meant to play together. Higgins is the puck digger, Plex is the 2-way playmaking center and AKost is the finisher.

2) Lines changing is part of the NHL life. Look around the league, lines change constantly everywhere. And wins & points are too important to wait 20 games for results. You also can't "punish" a play by giving less ice-time without having to change lines. This isnt 1977 anymore. No more Shutt-Lemaire-Lafleur together for 5 years.

Which brings me full circle to Koivu-Lats-Tangs who were Montreal's best. And while Koivu was pretty much Koivu, I was particularly pleased that, where Tangs may not have been quite as good as usual, Lats was much, much better than I've seen in a while. He was not only winning his battles, but he was using his size to protect the puck and create plays. By holding on a little longer he was able to tire opponents, and with two shifty linemates, his work offered more than a few chances.

That line worked well early and it seems to still be working well after being dismantled so I think there's some natural chemistry there. Lats always played well with Koivu (or now should we say Koivu plays better with puck-digging LWers) and Tangs seems to be able to adapt to anything.

There's one thing that's starting to bug me with Lats though, and it's that he shoots way too early. I've plenty of times when he had some room to take a few steps to get closer to the net to get a better shot or draw the goalie to set up a teammate.

Couldnt see the game so cant comment, but from the highlights I saw, 4 names stands out: Koivu, Markov, Tanguay and Price. And that's perhaps the team's 4 most talented players.

There's some old truth that never change with age, and one of them is that to win your best players have to be better than the other team's best players. That was this win in a nutshell for me.

[l<OV4L3V]

Side note from being at the game. I did get on the Kiss cam, damn g/f cut it short left me hanging. And I did get into it with Sparty, he uses that tail as a weapon! Tanguay was the best forward out there, Begin and Kostopolous are always working, the Kostitsyns make some little plays together that I never noticed before and am still not sure how they pull it off. Price was spectacular....again. Not sure if Georges will ever score a goal, he had a chance or two, but he is one of only a few that is always physical and will keep the puck in at the offensive blueline. I have a pile of pic's, will see how I can load them for everyone to see. I also have video of all the Canadiens shoot-out attempts, I was in the Ottawa corner so I saw all of the Canadiens goals. There were more habs fans then sens fans in the building and around the city it seemed, always out numbering the home team no matter where we were.

Haha I saw you on the Kiss Cam. Lats once again brought the hits and physical play. O'Pilon is looking pathetic...I think i lost 2 days of my life from stress when he took that selfish and irresponsible penalty that went into OT. He needs a sit down meeting with Jarvis and video analysis so maybe he can see how bad he really does look out there. Why he is logging big minutes is beyond me. O'Pilon lost so many battles along the board...for his size, its simply unacceptable. Loved it when Begin dropped the mits and pumped Bass! And yes, the Habs fans took over Scotiabank Place...Especially after the game!

I agree with everybody that a collective effort is mandatory for Saturdays game...because, lets face it...we stole 2 points last night. However, that is the best I have seen them play since their last good game (in MTL vs Hens)

[Colin]

Plex needs to get away from Kovy. He's starting to play too much for Kovy again, like last year before that line started to click. I have a solution for this, I'll get back to it later down this post.

Probably a very astute observation. Problem there is who does Kovy play with? Obvious answer is Lang and Sergei considering the latter part of your post, and I'd be interested to see if that's where they go eventually.

2 part answer:

1) The Higgins thing. There's one exception to the rule: Higgins-Plekanec-AKostitsyn. That line clicked well 2 seasons ago when nothing was working on offense. It's at that moment that Higgins & Plex cemented their NHL status. Seems to me that those guys are meant to play together. Higgins is the puck digger, Plex is the 2-way playmaking centre and AKost is the finisher.

2) Lines changing is part of the NHL life. Look around the league, lines change constantly everywhere. And wins & points are too important to wait 20 games for results. You also can't "punish" a play by giving less ice-time without having to change lines. This isnt 1977 anymore. No more Shutt-Lemaire-Lafleur together for 5 years.

As to 1) my only question is why Carbo doesn't go back to that and give it another shot. Obviously these three have played together a long time when the AHL is taken into consideration and, as you say, they do complement each other.

2) Yes, line changing is part of the NHL life. But there have been more than a few times when Montreal players don't know who they're going to be out with on the next shift, let alone the next game. I understand and respect the need to shake things up now and again. Hey, maybe taking Lats away from Koivu and Tanguay for a game or two is enough of a shock to the kid to get his game back, but by and large, my opinion is that, to really develop chemistry, the line has to play together for extended periods. I think there will always be instances where pulling a player for a shift or three off a line is a good thing. Some players are defensively berift and shouldn't play late in games. But get those lines back together after that and let them play.

I think Lats Koivu and Tangs should have the season to gel. Sure, each may need to be used in other spots and perhaps shifted to refocus for a game or two, but I'd like to see that line together for the season.

That line worked well early and it seems to still be working well after being dismantled so I think there's some natural chemistry there. Lats always played well with Koivu (or now should we say Koivu plays better with puck-digging LWers) and Tangs seems to be able to adapt to anything.

There seems to be a really good understanding with Koivu and Tangs as I see it. Both seem to know where the other is going. I think back to the zone entry last night where Tangs had the puck, Koivu raced around the defender to the net, and Tangs hit him with a pass on the way through. It just looked so natural. And yes, Lats and Koivu have a good understanding too. I think Koivu has always looked for a player who can park in the slot, and Lats can do that pretty well. He does need to take a second longer to finish more astutely, but that will come with time. He's been demoted and shifted around so much that he's probably down on his confidence some.

[Wamsley01]

I think Lats Koivu and Tangs should have the season to gel. Sure, each may need to be used in other spots and perhaps shifted to refocus for a game or two, but I'd like to see that line together for the season.

Funny when the Habs were 8-1-1 and Lats had 7 points in 10 games they needed to be broken up because

Lats was LIVING off his superior teammates and was not contributing much.

It is like dating Megan Fox in high school, and then marrying Amy Smart and pointing out her flaws for

twenty years because she is not Megan Fox, Amy Smart is still hot.

Lats is not Brendan Shanahan, but he is still a damn good player who is under intense, undeserved scrutiny on this board.

Give the kid an extended run to grow into the offensive player we hope he will be, give him the chance to

develop some chemistry with set linemates.

I thought through all the bitching and moaning on this board in the last three games that he has been one of the

most effective players.

Give the kid an extended shot, if it doesn't work, bash away.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Wamsley01

[saskhab]

Yeah, a lineup like the ones being proposed here sound good to me. I've also wondered how Andrei Kost would look on Saku's wing, but we can keep that one on the backburner. There's a ton of possibilities but I do like the looks of a lineup like this:

Latendresse - Koivu - Tanguay

Sergei - Lang - Kovalev

Higgins - Plekanec - Andrei