Habs vs Washington Game Thread

[CerebusClone]

the pp is 29th in the league, all i am hearing out of Carbo is he doesn't know what is wrong with these guys. i am a big Carbo fan but maybe he really does not know what is wrong. If that is the case maybe we need to have someone who has a plan, and get this team back on track. And because he is missing some players now does not explain 2 for 77. Someone needs to know how to fix this mess.

That's part of why I have lost faith in Carbonneau a while ago. I criticized him often before, but was willing to be patient as he's inexperienced... however I'm just not seeing much improvement since he became head coach. I'm hearing the same old fashioned cliches game after game, I'm not seeing the team playing any better on the ice (besides the fact that the team has much more depth and skills), I don't see any identity to this team, even after almost three years this group looks like it was just recently put together (no chemistry, no anticipation), the transition game is still deficient, several players have complained they don't know their role and what's expected of them... in other words this is a big mess.

It's funny I was listening to XM204 as I was picking up my new snowblower this morning (I'm so happy), and they were talking about what happened with Barry Melrose in Tampa Bay. They were talking about how the team had no structure, how his old-school ideas like the left-wing lock and his motivational techniques were outdated, how he didn't provide enough support for a kid like Steven Stamkos... basically very similar things to what I've been saying about Carbonneau for the last 2 years.

I think Carbonneau might be a very good coach for a blue collar team... after all his getting good results from his depth/utility players... however I'm not sure he has what it takes in today's NHL to manage a skilled group of players that on paper can contend for the Cup, especially not a group with many different styles where not everyone is comfortable playing the same North/South, finish-every-possible-check, dump-and chase game.

[sbhatt]

I think I'm gonna be sick.

I could nitpick about several players, but it all comes down to the powerplay...it was the difference yet again. Without a decent powerplay, the Canadiens are a bubble team to make the playoffs. I want to rip on Carbo, but I'll resist the urge because the bottom line is this is BOB GAINEY'S FAULT, not Carbo's. Without a point shot good enough to score, and command the respect of the penalty killers to allow play off the half-boards and down below, the powerplay is not going to work. Any tweaks and juggling of personnel is useless....Bob Gainey needs to stop sitting on his hands and get a pointman who can get quality shots on net before it's too late. If he doesn't, he's an idiot....because the body of evidence that this team needs such a player is staggering!!!!

[MFT77]

I think I'm gonna be sick.

I could nitpick about several players, but it all comes down to the powerplay...it was the difference yet again. Without a decent powerplay, the Canadiens are a bubble team to make the playoffs. I want to rip on Carbo, but I'll resist the urge because the bottom line is this is BOB GAINEY'S FAULT, not Carbo's. Without a point shot good enough to score, and command the respect of the penalty killers to allow play off the half-boards and down below, the powerplay is not going to work. Any tweaks and juggling of personnel is useless....Bob Gainey needs to stop sitting on his hands and get a pointman who can get quality shots on net before it's too late. If he doesn't, he's an idiot....because the body of evidence that this team needs such a player is staggering!!!!

Well stated, the difference tonite was again the Habs lethargic PP.

Again 0 for the night.

Definitely need a shooter for the PP.

Cmon BG.

[MMPL]

I think I'm gonna be sick.

I could nitpick about several players, but it all comes down to the powerplay...it was the difference yet again. Without a decent powerplay, the Canadiens are a bubble team to make the playoffs. I want to rip on Carbo, but I'll resist the urge because the bottom line is this is BOB GAINEY'S FAULT, not Carbo's. Without a point shot good enough to score, and command the respect of the penalty killers to allow play off the half-boards and down below, the powerplay is not going to work. Any tweaks and juggling of personnel is useless....Bob Gainey needs to stop sitting on his hands and get a pointman who can get quality shots on net before it's too late. If he doesn't, he's an idiot....because the body of evidence that this team needs such a player is staggering!!!!

The blame lies on Carbo.

BG gives him players and it is the coaches job to get the most out of the players he has, and Carbo is not doing it.

Because of Carbo's mistakes, it might force BG into making deals that weren't in his future.

It's hard to blame Carbo because I feel he has tried almost everything he could have tried. The players aren't playing for him and that is when you make a coaching change and sometimes it isn't the coaches fault.

[habs rule]

The blame lies on Carbo.

BG gives him players and it is the coaches job to get the most out of the players he has, and Carbo is not doing it.

Because of Carbo's mistakes, it might force BG into making deals that weren't in his future.

It's hard to blame Carbo because I feel he has tried almost everything he could have tried. The players aren't playing for him and that is when you make a coaching change and sometimes it isn't the coaches fault.

Yes unfortunately you are right. If the players don't play and the coach can't figure out how to get them to play then who goes? this team needs a big trade or a coaching change. i am not sure that the players are listening to Guy anymore.

[BCHabnut]

I wish Weber would have been brought up instead of Maxwell. Laps has been playing great, and could centre the 3rd line, while Begin centres the fourth. You now have room for a pointman.

[ForumGhost]

Ugh, c'mon you guys. The only thing sick about this team right now is it's incredibly fickle fans.

We played pretty damn well last night, especially considering that a huge part of our core is out with injury. We controlled a big part of the 2nd and pretty much all of the 3rd. Aside from his penalty, Kovalev played well and look dominant. I bet no one would be riding him had his crossbar ringer gone in. Only in Montreal can a player's worth be decided on a difference of about an inch. You have to hand it to Varlimov who played very well. We had a whole bunch of chances, luck just wasn't on our side. GET OVER IT.

Also, do you people think a trade will be good for the team? The players need confidence and I don't think seeing a teammate shipped out at the first sign of weakness will do any good for their confidence. It will make them nervous and more concerned about their position on the team than the team itself. A trade would be a terrible idea right now and I'm glad we have Gainey as our GM right now since he obviously knows better than to panic when we lose two games in a row, especially two games that could have gone either way.

Some people call me overly optimistic, but I see myself as realist more than anything. Seems like everyone else are just alarmists.

Edited December 14, 2008 by ForumGhost

[MMPL]

We are expected to contend for the Stanley Cup, and so far we are playing like shit, and if we continue to play like shit, we will fall in the standings.

The Hockey Gods have been with us so far because our record really shouldn't be so good.

Imagine our record if A Kost, Plex, Kovy line was good and if Higgy and Sergie would have played decent.. we would have a record like the Sharks.

I ain't giving up faith

:ghg:

[haber]

I ain't giving up faith

:ghg:

Yeah, but the habs are sure "testing" our faith as of late.

[Habitforming]

Looks to me like a few team building excercises are needed.

Kovalev is back to a me vs the world mentality and Pleks is starting to pick up on those habits as well.

There are many others that can have flaws pointed out as well, but they aren't expected to have the impact that those two are.

[Dalhabs]

Dont understand how people can act like this when we play well and loses... Noone ever whines when we play like shit and wins. Last night was just a bad luck night, couldve won 4-1 but some bad bounces and a late garbage goal for the caps made it a loss instead. How many players are we missing as well atm? Koivu, Komisarek, Higgins? More? Oh ye, Price as well. We can play even with top teams (yes, the caps is a top team) while missing key players.

I think we just need to start jumping out quicker and not start playing well in the 2nd period, get the first goal means ALOT.

[habs rule]

Ugh, c'mon you guys. The only thing sick about this team right now is it's incredibly fickle fans.

We played pretty damn well last night, especially considering that a huge part of our core is out with injury. We controlled a big part of the 2nd and pretty much all of the 3rd. Aside from his penalty, Kovalev played well and look dominant. I bet no one would be riding him had his crossbar ringer gone in. Only in Montreal can a player's worth be decided on a difference of about an inch. You have to hand it to Varlimov who played very well. We had a whole bunch of chances, luck just wasn't on our side. GET OVER IT.

Also, do you people think a trade will be good for the team? The players need confidence and I don't think seeing a teammate shipped out at the first sign of weakness will do any good for their confidence. It will make them nervous and more concerned about their position on the team than the team itself. A trade would be a terrible idea right now and I'm glad we have Gainey as our GM right now since he obviously knows better than to panic when we lose two games in a row, especially two games that could have gone either way.

Some people call me overly optimistic, but I see myself as realist more than anything. Seems like everyone else are just alarmists.

Being optimistic is great and I have defended Carbo every inch of the way BUT no one can tell me why they lose to bad teams and why the pp is virtually last in the league. This team would have a great record if they could score on the pp. This either a coaching issue or a player issue and one that has to be solved if they are to progress and win the cup. Carbo has stated he don't know what is wrong with these guys, I do not like the sound of that. i know he is frustrated and wants to find the answer and has tried every combo known to mankind but to see how bad the pp is and not do anything about is not BBG's way so something will happen either a trade or coaching change. Or we are not going to be looking for a parade in Montreal any time soon. That is my version of reality. 2 for how many?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Yeah, this 7th overall team sucks, let's trade big parts of the core or else fire Carbo!!! Hell, let's fire Gainey while we're at it. Certainly we should do that rather than listen to Red Fisher, who's seen more games than most of us combined:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/They...4206/story.html

The Canadiens deserved something better than losing 2-1 with fewer than three minutes remaining in regulation. Deserved something better than Michael Nylander fighting off Roman Hamrlik and getting the winner with a shot that sliced off Jaroslav Halak's skate.

On this night, the Canadiens were beaten by a power play that has disappeared into the mists and went uh-oh-for-8 last night.

"It doesn't exist, because we're being outworked when we're on the power play," Guy Carbonneau grunted in the post-game scrum.

Could be. All I know for certain is that the Canadiens were beaten despite outshooting the Capitals 27-15 in the final two periods.

Mostly, though, they were beaten by Simeon Varlamov.

This is why I'm getting fed up with game threads.

[Natural Mystic]

Ditto. From what I watched last night. The habs had great chances and held the momentum most of the game. Pleks is playing amazing, remember the spinorama? Or that sweet deke he pulled in front of Kipper? The end result is never the full story, nor the point of the game. It's like saying, when I am 55 years old I want to have THIS THIS THIS and THAT, and I will totally wain my awareness of seeing the beauty now, and focus on the end result.

It's easy to go online, on a message board and say what you don't like. It's like saying, hey the Illuminati control the whole world, and instead of working on myself to become a better person, I'll just say everything that's wrong with the government to other people, maybe the other people will feel as bad I do about the whole situation, and agree that the world sucks.

[habs rule]

Yeah, this 7th overall team sucks, let's trade big parts of the core or else fire Carbo!!! Hell, let's fire Gainey while we're at it. Certainly we should do that rather than listen to Red Fisher, who's seen more games than most of us combined:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/They...4206/story.html

The Canadiens deserved something better than losing 2-1 with fewer than three minutes remaining in regulation. Deserved something better than Michael Nylander fighting off Roman Hamrlik and getting the winner with a shot that sliced off Jaroslav Halak's skate.

On this night, the Canadiens were beaten by a power play that has disappeared into the mists and went uh-oh-for-8 last night.

"It doesn't exist, because we're being outworked when we're on the power play," Guy Carbonneau grunted in the post-game scrum.

Could be. All I know for certain is that the Canadiens were beaten despite outshooting the Capitals 27-15 in the final two periods.

Mostly, though, they were beaten by Simeon Varlamov.

This is why I'm getting fed up with game threads.

well maybe you know how to fix the power play because as I read red's article he says the pp has disappeared and Carbo sez they were outworked. I agree that Varlomov played well. but the last time we played Washington they beat us with an ahl defence and you think that is good? I don't get it but I am not going to stop airing my opinion because you don't like if the team gets justifiably criticized. Ask Carbo if he thinks this team is performing as it should. I believe the problem may be more deep seated than "another hot goalie". If we can't score on the pp we need to make a change so we can. By the way what is with everybody quitting this board just because someone has a different opinion? I thought what I said was reasonable given this team's performance.

[johnnyhasbeen]

I see no fire, or desire in this team. That scares me. It is one of the most talent ladden lineups we have had in my life, and I was born in the early 60's! Think about that a second. This team should be battling for a Presidents Cup (who really cares though) and be an odds on favourite for the finals. Not so. We would have to hope not to run into Washington or Boston in the playoffs, very unlikely.

However, If or top line of last year, that I use to call the top line but now realize Guy Lafleur was right, 4 2nd lines,

[johnnyhasbeen]

I see no fire, or desire in this team. That scares me. It is one of the most talent ladden lineups we have had in my life, and I was born in the early 60's! Think about that a second. This team should be battling for a Presidents Cup (who really cares though) and be an odds on favourite for the finals. Not so. We would have to hope not to run into Washington or Boston in the playoffs, very unlikely.

However,

If our top line of last year, that I use to call the top line but now realize Guy Lafleur was right, 4 2nd lines, was to refind its form........

If the top 3 lines find the desire of the grinders,

If or younger defenceman was to show signs of wanting his spot (actually Washington was a good game OB!)

If our goaltending ( the place i find fewest problems at the moment) started to steal a game a week.

Maybe, just maybe we can become contenders again.

Kovalev is my biggest problem right now. He looks as interested as he did in NYC his last season.

Guess he plans to play in Russia next year?

Maybe he will sign for a couple mill in the NHL somewhere, but that is a risky signing for any taker.

Started the year thinking he was the UFA forward you have to keep.

Not playing like he is. See his last shift in this game?

2 minutes left, down by 1 he takes a short skate.

No desire what so ever.

Remind me to change my favourite Habs.

He blew it!

Edited December 15, 2008 by johnnyhasbeen

[johnnyhasbeen]

Ugh, c'mon you guys. The only thing sick about this team right now is it's incredibly fickle fans.

We played pretty damn well last night, especially considering that a huge part of our core is out with injury. We controlled a big part of the 2nd and pretty much all of the 3rd. Aside from his penalty, Kovalev played well and look dominant. I bet no one would be riding him had his crossbar ringer gone in. Only in Montreal can a player's worth be decided on a difference of about an inch. You have to hand it to Varlimov who played very well. We had a whole bunch of chances, luck just wasn't on our side. GET OVER IT.

Also, do you people think a trade will be good for the team? The players need confidence and I don't think seeing a teammate shipped out at the first sign of weakness will do any good for their confidence. It will make them nervous and more concerned about their position on the team than the team itself. A trade would be a terrible idea right now and I'm glad we have Gainey as our GM right now since he obviously knows better than to panic when we lose two games in a row, especially two games that could have gone either way.

Some people call me overly optimistic, but I see myself as realist more than anything. Seems like everyone else are just alarmists.

I agree with almost every thing here, however, luck doesn't win cups. Putting that little puck in that great big net does!

Posts and crossbars don't count for much, not even SOG.

Last year, down by 1 goal, Kovalev does not go to the bench as time runs out! That is realism to me.

Ditto. From what I watched last night. The habs had great chances and held the momentum most of the game. Pleks is playing amazing, remember the spinorama? Or that sweet deke he pulled in front of Kipper? The end result is never the full story, nor the point of the game. It's like saying, when I am 55 years old I want to have THIS THIS THIS and THAT, and I will totally wain my awareness of seeing the beauty now, and focus on the end result.

It's easy to go online, on a message board and say what you don't like. It's like saying, hey the Illuminati control the whole world, and instead of working on myself to become a better person, I'll just say everything that's wrong with the government to other people, maybe the other people will feel as bad I do about the whole situation, and agree that the world sucks.

If you get caught up to much in the now and don't look ahead you will be 55 and realize you don't have THIS THIS THAT OR THAT.

As long as you have goals and stayed focussed you can glimpse at the beauty. But stay focussed.

Message boards exist so it is easy to compliment, complain, whine, etc. Why else come here? To give an opinion. Positive or negetive, they are opinions and peoples thoughts on given situations, topics. It is healthy to read others thoughts on topics we spend time contemplating. Also healthy to debate said topics.

Yes the world sucks as do most governments and at the same time, it is the best world I know!

Edited December 15, 2008 by johnnyhasbeen

[brobin]

This is not the first team to struggle on the PP. Once it sucks, it is a confidence issue. Look at Kovalev.. an inch or two one way and he might have gotten two goals last night. He has the yips and just can't score. He is working hard, as evidenced by his point total. He is still setting it up and producing points.

I predict that if Kovalev gets a few breaks, he will be fine and our PP will be better. That said, our PP is not going to be as good as last year until we get a guy who can score from the point. That opens up the defense and makes the entire PP work better. Unfortunately, that mess was created by Gainey, not Carbo. He has tried a lot of guys at the point, he just doesn't have a Souray/Streit guy available. Its not like he has a Streit and he just won't use him...

I still want to see Sundin if possible. I think his skill and scoring ability will shake this team up and give us tremendous depth.

[Chris]

I didn't think they played that bad. They were very soft and the typical deer in headlights look in the first priod. Other then that i thought thye played hard. They just can't score, or frankly get good scoring chances.

They need to look at film on goals against the habs. they are all done a few feet from the net. D'Agi, sometimes A Kosty are the ONLY players besides the 4th liners who crash the net. How many times is Pleks going to skate close to the boards, behind the net then turn over the puck?

Yes, Kovalev still pisses me off. I don't want to comment too much on him all the Kovalev lovers would jump me. He is back to me scratching my head going "what the heck was that"? and yes, i would would trade him in a heartbeat.

Defense was ok at times, I really wish someone would stand up and pound someone when the golaie gets run over, i'm tired of it.

This team is still too small, too soft, not enough character guys around. I will add too slow on most nights.

[CerebusClone]

I predict that if Kovalev gets a few breaks, he will be fine and our PP will be better. That said, our PP is not going to be as good as last year until we get a guy who can score from the point. That opens up the defense and makes the entire PP work better. Unfortunately, that mess was created by Gainey, not Carbo. He has tried a lot of guys at the point, he just doesn't have a Souray/Streit guy available. Its not like he has a Streit and he just won't use him...

Actually we have Carle and Weber down in Hamtilton who are doing a pretty good job. Maybe they're ready, maybe not... but they are potential solutions that are easily available. Until he was injured there was also Mike Komisarek who was very successful on the powerplay before playing in the NHL, and Carbonneau never gave him an opportunity. If we're looking for a big shot, we could experiment (at least during practices) with a guy like Ryan O'Byrne.

There are also forward who could perhaps do the job... but for that we would need to work on this during practices, and experiment for more than a half a game. I'm thinking that a guy like Andrei Kostsitsyn could do very well... but he hardy got the opportunity. At some point we need to identify our powerplay leaders, from new strategies around them, and give them enough time to adapt and learn to antipate each other. You can't constantly shuffle around players around, and expect them to play well just by "working hard".

[BTH]

Yeah, this 7th overall team sucks, let's trade big parts of the core or else fire Carbo!!! Hell, let's fire Gainey while we're at it. Certainly we should do that rather than listen to Red Fisher, who's seen more games than most of us combined:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/They...4206/story.html

The Canadiens deserved something better than losing 2-1 with fewer than three minutes remaining in regulation. Deserved something better than Michael Nylander fighting off Roman Hamrlik and getting the winner with a shot that sliced off Jaroslav Halak's skate.

On this night, the Canadiens were beaten by a power play that has disappeared into the mists and went uh-oh-for-8 last night.

"It doesn't exist, because we're being outworked when we're on the power play," Guy Carbonneau grunted in the post-game scrum.

Could be. All I know for certain is that the Canadiens were beaten despite outshooting the Capitals 27-15 in the final two periods.

Mostly, though, they were beaten by Simeon Varlamov.

This is why I'm getting fed up with game threads.

I agree with the point of your post but let's not make the mistake of assuming that Red Fisher is the god of all hockey knowledge just because he's been around for so long. I've never seen Red Fisher say a single thing in an article that the rest of the world didn't already know. ("Know something? The Habs lost tonight because the Sens wanted it more." All his thesis statements are something like that.) His only real uses are having inside information thanks to all of his contacts and being able to share stories of the legends. In those regards, he's almost one of a kind - but - a legend himself? Don't think so.

[JoeLassister]

Actually we have Carle and Weber down in Hamtilton who are doing a pretty good job. Maybe they're ready, maybe not... but they are potential solutions that are easily available. Until he was injured there was also Mike Komisarek who was very successful on the powerplay before playing in the NHL, and Carbonneau never gave him an opportunity. If we're looking for a big shot, we could experiment (at least during practices) with a guy like Ryan O'Byrne.

There are also forward who could perhaps do the job... but for that we would need to work on this during practices, and experiment for more than a half a game. I'm thinking that a guy like Andrei Kostsitsyn could do very well... but he hardy got the opportunity. At some point we need to identify our powerplay leaders, from new strategies around them, and give them enough time to adapt and learn to antipate each other. You can't constantly shuffle around players around, and expect them to play well just by "working hard".

I love Mike Komisarek, he's even my favourite Habs, I own a jersey of him. But when I think power play and offense, he's the last option I'd use.

And I agree with the last part. These guys are, IMO, Kovy-Andrei-Koivu Markov and Sergei/Lang. Get them time to get their game tight as last season and we can always be back with Tanguay-Lang-Plex and IMO, double shift Kovy at the point with Breezer on the 2nd wave.

[MMPL]

We would have to hope not to run into Washington or Boston in the playoffs

As good as Boston is, I would LOOOOVE to see another playoff series with them.

Exciting, spirited playoff hockey.

With BGL to tone Lucic down and both teams fast paced offenses, it would make for an incredible 7 gamer.