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Carbo fired


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perhaps his overuse of Briesbois?

Gainey sighed Breezy, not Carbo...

I will say based on what I have heard that Gainey didn't always see eye to eye. Carbo wanted to sit Kovy a while ago and Gainey wouldn't let him. Carbo was pissed that Huet was dumped on his when he was making a strong playoff run. Carbo was not impressed with no moves at the deadline.

Frankly, I am with Carbo on those. Carbo also was the one that sent little #### down and brought up Stewart instead. It will be interesting to see if Gainey reverses that now.

I also wonder if Halak gets to start anymore, or if Gainey will stick with Price again.

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wow. Shocker... seriously didn't expect that.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/270846.html

Why not?? It was obvious from the last few games that the team has quit on him.

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Pretty surprised - though the team frequently performed as if they wanted this change more than anything.

But surprised. I really hope we do not scrape into the playoffs, lose in the first round, and keep the core of vets that have us treading water for years. They are the ones that need to go.

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when i heard that comment in the press conference I understood it differently than you Koz. I think he was referring to the use of certain players in certain situations. To me he was speaking of the use of non-offensive players continuously in offensive roles.

French quote:

" Je vais avoir des discussions (avec les coachs) pour savoir leur logique pour leur choix d'un joueur sur un autre dans le lineup pour un match ou un autre"

He's talking about a player over another in the lineup for a game or another. Its not players used in situations or another. It's whos dressed and who isnt.

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Lead the way, oh man of high-level thinking.

That MAY bring him close to .500.

Mike Modano, Brian Bellows, Brian Propp, Bobby Smith, Ulf Dalhen (sp), Darien Hatcher, etc. They weren't without a lack of depth on the top-end.

When they made the playoffs, more than 50% of the time they were out in Round 1. We can treat their run to the finals as a one-off -- not quite a re-curring theme in his track record.

Because his winning record proves this? What 'system' has Gainey established in the last 10 years? What systems of our last 3-4 coaches didn't work enough for them to have pretty good careers after coaching the Habs? Vignault, Therrien, Julien? Almost all of them have had Jack Adams seasons after taking off here (albeit with respectable teams).

Once again, the team failed management, and you can't fire a whole team...

I wouldn't trumpet Gainey as being a coaching savior. He's in a position of high power and that'll be what catalyzes the team as they'll always stand up straighter when the Colonel comes out after the drill Sargent has lost his voice.

Bobby Smith? Do you mean the washed up Bobby Smith? THe one who was a half a point per game player at 33 years old?

Mike Modano? A 21 year old in his second season in the league?

Brian Propp? a guy who was out of the league 2 seasons later?

The team was brutal and he took them to within 2 wins of the Stanley Cup.

Carbonneau took a team that almost knocked off the Stanley Cup champion and missed the playoffs the next season.

Then when he does have a 100 pt team he almost loses to an 8 seed and gets bounced against a 6 seed.

Now this season in a team that is supposed to be a contender he has them one loss away from being out of the playoffs.

Sorry if I don't look at records forged under different league rules and different players to make my obvious assessment.

You know, the numbers don't lie. Hell yeah they do! They can be made to dance very easily.

The numbers say that Tim Thomas is the best goalie in the league and Scott Clemmensen is better than Carey Price. They also say that Bernie Federko is a better and more productive player than Mats Sundin, Gilbert Perreault, Brett Hull, Jari Kurri etc.

Yawn. Your research was lazy. Simple as that. Take offense, I don't care.

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French quote:

" Je vais avoir des discussions (avec les coachs) pour savoir leur logique pour leur choix d'un joueur sur un autre dans le lineup pour un match ou un autre"

He's talking about a player over another in the lineup for a game or another. Its not players used in situations or another. It's whos dressed and who isnt.

I'll take your word from it, as I'm only in beginners french.

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I'll take your word from it, as I'm only in beginners french.

" Je (I) vais avoir (will have) des discussions avec eux [coaches] (discussions with them [coaches] pour (to) savoir (know) leur (their) logique (logic) pour (for) leur (their) choix (choice) d'un (of a) joueur (player) sur (over) un (a) autre (other) dans (in) le (the) lineup (lineup) pour (for) un (a) match (game) ou (or) un (a) autre (other)"

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Lead the way, oh man of high-level thinking.

Not to discredit anyone's opinion, but Wamsley is the epitome of poring over stats and analyzing hockey data. He DOES exhibit a higher level of analysis than most.

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Yawn. Your research was lazy. Simple as that. Take offense, I don't care.

LOL... we don't agree, so your research is lazy...

I don't disagree with all your points, but that is a pretty arrogant statement.

Gainey is no genius behind the bench. He will get short term benefit based on the wake up call and his authority. He won't be behind the bench next year, but if he keeps some of these losers, he will be back 2 years from now, when they quit on Don Lever (another rookie nhl coach he will probably hire).

Not to discredit anyone's opinion, but Wamsley is the epitome of poring over stats and analyzing hockey data. He DOES exhibit a higher level of analysis than most.

I don't know, when the stats disagree with him, the stats are no longer relevant.

Thomas is one of the best goalies right now. He may be ugly at it, but he is no 20 game wonder.

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Not to discredit anyone's opinion, but Wamsley is the epitome of poring over stats and analyzing hockey data. He DOES exhibit a higher level of analysis than most.

and he smells terrific.

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Gainey is putting himself on the line IMO; the team is built to win now, and they're hovering between in the playoffs and out. However, Gainey has usually got more out of his teams with less. That isn't a statistical analysis, that's perception. Canes take out Koivu and Huet sleeps; they win the cup, and we had them. He takes a less-than-average Stars team to the finals and actually wins a couple of games there.

I think Lever will be the coach, there was some talk of his disappointment last time around when Carbo was hired; he did what Gainey likes to see, the yeoman's work at development in Hamilton, sending up more polished players consistently, improving players sent down. It'll be crash-course Francais at College Platon this summer for him. Plus, his coming will mean a lot of goings: they won't want to saddle him with the same problem players next year, if in fact these players sleepwalk through the rest of the season.

Gainey saw us play poorly for a period (by account - I didn't see the game) and win. He saw a 4-game win streak which featured, at times, abysmal play. If that is as good as it was going under Carbo, he felt he had to make the move. Don't know if he was right or wrong, we'll all know in a month or so. I was in favour of moving problem / chronically underachieving players at the deadline; then the rest of the NTC-ers in the summer, and re-loading for Carbo. I wanted the continuity too; Bob didn't do it, laid down a challenge for the staff and players. Bob didn't see the improvement, and acted, or someone behind him acted. And for all those wishing for a Ruff-type situation, we'd actually have to find a Ruff-type before committing to it.

Watch the Bruins crash and burn with that piece of sh*t Thomas in nets. They're already staggering...and who was complaining about KoZed's avatar????????

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Gainey is putting himself on the line IMO; the team is built to win now, and they're hovering between in the playoffs and out. However, Gainey has usually got more out of his teams with less. That isn't a statistical analysis, that's perception. Canes take out Koivu and Huet sleeps; they win the cup, and we had them. He takes a less-than-average Stars team to the finals and actually wins a couple of games there.

I think Lever will be the coach, there was some talk of his disappointment last time around when Carbo was hired; he did what Gainey likes to see, the yeoman's work at development in Hamilton, sending up more polished players consistently, improving players sent down. It'll be crash-course Francais at College Platon this summer for him. Plus, his coming will mean a lot of goings: they won't want to saddle him with the same problem players next year, if in fact these players sleepwalk through the rest of the season.

Gainey saw us play poorly for a period (by account - I didn't see the game) and win. He saw a 4-game win streak which featured, at times, abysmal play. If that is as good as it was going under Carbo, he felt he had to make the move. Don't know if he was right or wrong, we'll all know in a month or so. I was in favour of moving problem / chronically underachieving players at the deadline; then the rest of the NTC-ers in the summer, and re-loading for Carbo. I wanted the continuity too; Bob didn't do it, laid down a challenge for the staff and players. Bob didn't see the improvement, and acted, or someone behind him acted. And for all those wishing for a Ruff-type situation, we'd actually have to find a Ruff-type before committing to it.

Watch the Bruins crash and burn with that piece of sh*t Thomas in nets. They're already staggering...and who was complaining about KoZed's avatar????????

Interestingly, if we all think back to last year, the difference in points is the difference between beating the bruins constantly and this year, when they have us. People forget how beat up Boston was last year. I too think they are not as good as their current record, but Thomas has some of the best stats in the league for several years now.

We definitely are not playing as good as we could be, but we have also had a brutal season in terms of injuries, and Gainey didn't being in a lang replacement. He fixed the PP a bit with Schneider, but most people feel he should have done more. I am not sure he could have, hard to know unless you know what deals are on the table. I am still convinced he did squat because everyone wanted our youth and he plans to clean out our vets. He needs those youth...

I hope Gainey can cajole this team into the playoffs, but I am not convinced we make the 2nd round.

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Ya Baby!!! I called it a brutal move when they hired him. No head coaching experience and Montreal is not the learning grounds. Boy I hate to be right in this case but I said it here that Carbo couldn't hold Julien's clipboard. Now we need Julien to win coach of the year. I told you sooooooo!

You mean you foresaw that a coach would be fired the day he was hired! Wow!

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French quote:

" Je vais avoir des discussions (avec les coachs) pour savoir leur logique pour leur choix d'un joueur sur un autre dans le lineup pour un match ou un autre"

He's talking about a player over another in the lineup for a game or another. Its not players used in situations or another. It's whos dressed and who isnt.

the Bob is not the craftiest french speaker, honestly, he could have meant anything regarding "lines" / "lineup" / "roster" / "special units" with that sentence.

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Bobby Smith? Do you mean the washed up Bobby Smith? THe one who was a half a point per game player at 33 years old?

Mike Modano? A 21 year old in his second season in the league?

Brian Propp? a guy who was out of the league 2 seasons later?

The team was brutal and he took them to within 2 wins of the Stanley Cup.

Carbonneau took a team that almost knocked off the Stanley Cup champion and missed the playoffs the next season.

Then when he does have a 100 pt team he almost loses to an 8 seed and gets bounced against a 6 seed.

Now this season in a team that is supposed to be a contender he has them one loss away from being out of the playoffs.

Sorry if I don't look at records forged under different league rules and different players to make my obvious assessment.

You know, the numbers don't lie. Hell yeah they do! They can be made to dance very easily.

The numbers say that Tim Thomas is the best goalie in the league and Scott Clemmensen is better than Carey Price. They also say that Bernie Federko is a better and more productive player than Mats Sundin, Gilbert Perreault, Brett Hull, Jari Kurri etc.

Yawn. Your research was lazy. Simple as that. Take offense, I don't care.

LOL

I love your unconditional love for Bob Gainey :P

mine spreads to most of anything related to the habs, while they are linked to the habs. up to this afternoon, I'd have argued to death that Carbo was the right guy and now, I'm dead certain that Bob is our man! :)

you're right though Bob IMO is in the top 3-5 hockey minds still active (bowman is not active)

I see a winning streak ahead.

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the Bob is not the craftiest french speaker, honestly, he could have meant anything regarding "lines" / "lineup" / "roster" / "special units" with that sentence.

Or shit.. I better come up with something.. i can't say... "nothing different, I just needed to wake these bums up before they got me fired too!"

:blink:

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Carbonneau took a team that almost knocked off the Stanley Cup champion and missed the playoffs the next season.

Then when he does have a 100 pt team he almost loses to an 8 seed and gets bounced against a 6 seed.

Now this season in a team that is supposed to be a contender he has them one loss away from being out of the playoffs.

By the way, we got bounced last because a rookie goalie fell apart in the playoffs and we didn't have a vet goalie to back him up. that was Gainey, not Carbo.

I know you love Price to death, but he blew it last year and he has struggled mightily this year. Don't blame Carbo for that, he was on record as wanting to keep Huet for the run, even if they started Price. there are definitely things you can blame Carbo for (communication issues), but this is not one of them.

I still think Gainey has made some big mistakes (and good decisions) in his tenure, this being one of them.

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I always liked Carbo but not his coaching. However I imagined we'd placed our bets and would stick with him, than maybe make changes in the offseason. Surprising, but seems good news for those who still think we could take a serious run at the cup this season.

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"Quelques décisions de Guy Carbonneau en matière de stratégie et de remaniement de trio ont soulevé du mécontentement. Tout comme l'utilisation des gardiens et le traitement réservé à quelques vétérans, dont Steve Bégin."

Thats a quote from the main Carbo firing article, saying that he'll take some days with his family and to cool off, before commenting. While the Lapresse articles about Carbo's firing doesn't blame the players for having Carbo's head, they do say that there was a lot of discontent in the locker room about the strategies, the lines and the goalie use (which is what that quote actually says).

all the things you didn't like about carbo summed up in a pretty concise and intelligible way, it's worth it to learn french just to read that article. it's by Mathias Brunet (MB), who, like him or not, is really good at hindsight :P

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hockey/20...x-critiques.php

ABSTRACT :

In CGY, after bowling game, etc., he started the game with Max Pax and d'Ago line... the Flames were all over us during the first minute and that set the tone to the game (while MB believes that vets should have started the game, to set the tone)

In pitts, 2-2, 3rd period, Makin and Crosby on the ice, Carbo goes with his 3rd pairing of dmen... Pens scored within 19 seconds and we lost 5-4

In SJ or DET, you'd never see a coach line up a guy like Kosto with 2 minutes to go. Nor Metropolit on a 5 on 3... while d'Ago is out of the lineup. if you want a RH, dress d'Ago...

Carbo relied too much on his "plumbers" (checkers -> Kostopoulos).

MB didn't like Carbo's insistance on dump and chase system while most of the players are carry the puck guys.

MB didn't like nor understand why Kost was used on the LW and Tangs on the RW at the start of the season (till yesterday)

A coach cannot say that he has no solution left, that's not good for the team.

Carbo always failed to communicate.

I mostly agree with most of it.

however, I still think that carbo was learning from his mistake and that he was improving... but maybe Montreal is not the best place to learn for a coach ;)

another article listing Carbo's 10 worst decisions, it's not so good, but I still summed it below. MB's article is way better though :P

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hockey/20...-carbonneau.php

ABSTRACT :

Price in Vancouver

replace Halak who was had done nothing wrong, with Price, to please Vancouver fans (price is from BC)

No communication with Kovalev

Gainey had to take care of Kovalev two times. that said, only few coaches were able to deal with the artist.

Do nothing with Kovalev.

two years ago, when Kovalev badmouthed to the russian media, Carbo could have set things straight with Kov. he didnt

Lines shuffling.

too much!

Goalies

Be it Price, Huet or Halak, we've never really known who was #1 under Carbo.

Bowling.

to relieve stress of his players! well that turned into a 7-2 loss.

Punitive training.

After the shameful loss in buff, a punitive training? well that led to another shameful loss in buffalo.

No more solutions.

Can't say that in front of the camera. he did.

Offensive strategies.

Max Lapierre, Kostopoulos when the habs were trailing? Laraque on the PP? Not sure all habs players welcomed those decisions.

Think like a player.

Too often Carbo has been thinking like a player, might have cost him his job?

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the Bob is not the craftiest french speaker, honestly, he could have meant anything regarding "lines" / "lineup" / "roster" / "special units" with that sentence.

"Why player A is in lineup and player B is not in lineup for game" That's what he meant, clear and simple.

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By the way, we got bounced last because a rookie goalie fell apart in the playoffs and we didn't have a vet goalie to back him up. that was Gainey, not Carbo.

I know you love Price to death, but he blew it last year and he has struggled mightily this year. Don't blame Carbo for that, he was on record as wanting to keep Huet for the run, even if they started Price. there are definitely things you can blame Carbo for (communication issues), but this is not one of them.

I still think Gainey has made some big mistakes (and good decisions) in his tenure, this being one of them.

That or because we couldn't solve frikkin Biron? look at the score, it's hard to tell... we could barely score 2 goals, so it's a bit harsh to blame the goalie.

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Bobby Smith? Do you mean the washed up Bobby Smith? THe one who was a half a point per game player at 33 years old?

Mike Modano? A 21 year old in his second season in the league?

Brian Propp? a guy who was out of the league 2 seasons later?

The team was brutal and he took them to within 2 wins of the Stanley Cup.

Carbonneau took a team that almost knocked off the Stanley Cup champion and missed the playoffs the next season.

Then when he does have a 100 pt team he almost loses to an 8 seed and gets bounced against a 6 seed.

Now this season in a team that is supposed to be a contender he has them one loss away from being out of the playoffs.

Sorry if I don't look at records forged under different league rules and different players to make my obvious assessment.

You know, the numbers don't lie. Hell yeah they do! They can be made to dance very easily.

The numbers say that Tim Thomas is the best goalie in the league and Scott Clemmensen is better than Carey Price. They also say that Bernie Federko is a better and more productive player than Mats Sundin, Gilbert Perreault, Brett Hull, Jari Kurri etc.

Yawn. Your research was lazy. Simple as that. Take offense, I don't care.

good points wamsley :clap:

:lool: when the bruins get in the playoffs i think that if the other team takes the approach of trying to get under timmy thomas' skin a bit and agitate him then he'll lose it and blow up.. there have been many a game where thomas lets his emotions get the better of him and im personally not convinced he is as good as his numbers would indicate... maybe if he wins a playoff series or two then I might have to rethink that but until then i think he's overblown.

sure ryder is 7th in the league in +/- at a plus 27 :o .. would anyone pick ryder as one of the strongest even strength players in the nhl? the numbers can be deceiving.

montreal has a team +/- at a -19, whereas the bruins are +283, that's pretty sick tho.

timthomas2111506.jpg

don't make him angry.. you won't like him when he's angry... :lool: his equipment looks huge.

53670046.jpg61482787.jpg

:popcorn:

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Frankly, Gainey mentioned all of the same things that have driven people crazy on this site.

-inconsistency from game to game, from period to period, from shift to shift;

-emotionless play during games of enormous importance;

-ridiculous amounts of shots on goal, night after night, and the inability to protect the goalies.

Despite what Pierre Macguire and (shockingly, given that he's been basically calling for Carbo's head for several days now) Mike Boone may say, these things almost certainly have more to do with coaching than with talent or personnel.

Couple that with the fact that he had players coming to him claiming that Carbo was ruining their careers (I assume he means Dandy and Begin, possibly Kovalev), that Begin apparently told Renaud Lavoie of RDS that the players were waiting for Carbo to be fired, and you have a portrait of a team that has quit on their coach. And once that happens, it doesn't matter if you're a great coach or not. You're done.

Does Lever speak French? And how come no one is identifying Jarvis as a potential head coach - ?

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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