brobin Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Couple of thoughts.. yes, this will probably work in the short term. The team will play with more effort and do a bit better. Most UFA will bail anyways and some will sucker Gainey into signing them to a big contract (since their performance was Carbo's fault). I still firmly believe that the only hope Gainey has of keeping his job is to dump the older core. At some point he has to realize that when a team can't keep a coach more then 2 years, it says more about the core of the team. If he resigns Kovalev and Koivu, we will be firing the next coach in 2 years. Dump these guys and get players who will support the coaches and lead by example. When Kovy and Koivu bail on the coaches, they set that as an example. By the way, Carbo has a better win/loss record as a coach then Gainey does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canajun Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 +1 I couldn't articulate my feelings any better, so let me just say "ditto". Colin and NHfarber and me are correct.... settle down Kozed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Gainey destiny is in the players hand. Lever has assistant coach is the best thing that could happened to this team. Why the sarcasm?? He is the one that saw and develop most of the players on that team. He is no way a Muller type. He's not a boot shiner and the water boy. Did you ever heard of his comments after a losing streak. He's not afraid to go right to the guys and give them a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nilan25 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I know I have been bashing Carbo in the heat of the moment alot but this doesnt feel like a good thing. That's exactly how I feel. Players quit. he doesn't want to coach again in NHL I think, the job was his in NJ and he didn't want it?! (Am I wrong?) How about Rejean Tremblay or bitter Jean Perron? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Well, that was a very straightforward press conference from Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFT77 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 shouldn't have play on Pokerstars waiting for the press conference as pissed as I am, just lost 40$ :puke: I was playing there too, when i was surfing the net and saw the news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I wish Carbo could have stayed but it's hard not to be happy that Gainey's getting behind the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Colin and NHfarber and me are correct.... settle down Kozed. No. I'm sorry, but this is just the same bullshit all over again. Same players who are supposed to lead quit on the coach because "waaaaaah, he's not nice enough with me, whaaaaa". Lazy millionaires that dont like being told he has to get his ass into gear. Lazy millionaires that pouts. Lazy millionaires who go whine to the owner, who really has less knowledge about hockey than any of us here. I can't stand this shitty trend anymore. Can't stand to see the real culprits get away with it, once again. Gotta have blinders on not to see this is just more of the same knee-jerk reaction that will lead nowhere. Enough. Ya basta. Assez c'est assez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I wish Carbo could have stayed but it's hard not to be happy that Gainey's getting behind the bench. Gainey has a proven track record as a head coach He took the North Stars to the Stanley Cup Finals He almost led Montreal to an upset in 2006, if it wasn't for Saku's injury and Stillman's deflected shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nilan25 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) Kozed: It's business. Players may be pukes but the coach has to get the best out of the pukes. By the bye think your avatar sucks. You have an agenda, clearly. Edited March 9, 2009 by Nilan25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 You have an agenda, clearly. Says the guy who has Koivu listed as Fav Habs player. I'm not letting anything slide anymore, that's all. Win or go away. Nothing else will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 No. I'm sorry, but this is just the same bullshit all over again. Same players who are supposed to lead quit on the coach because "waaaaaah, he's not nice enough with me, whaaaaa". Lazy millionaires that dont like being told he has to get his ass into gear. Lazy millionaires that pouts. Lazy millionaires who go whine to the owner, who really has less knowledge about hockey than any of us here. I can't stand this shitty trend anymore. Can't stand to see the real culprits get away with it, once again. Gotta have blinders on not to see this is just more of the same knee-jerk reaction that will lead nowhere. Enough. Ya basta. Assez c'est assez. Watch Bob get the most out of these "culprits" If Bob does it then it is the coach's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nilan25 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Kozed: You are using the firing of a good man, a guy who bleeds bleu blanc et rouge, who was clearly let down by his players to blame Koivu??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Watch Bob get the most out of these "culprits" If Bob does it then it is the coach's fault. Actually, wrong... It means this gutless pukes quit on their coach. If he came in and changed the strategy and lines, then yes.. tactically better. In this case, it will just prove once again that the leaders of this team screwed their coach. they will play better, exit in the first 2 rounds, and then we will repeat this with the next coach. Gainey absolutely must gut these pukes. I understand that he is desperate right now. He didn't move at the deadline so this is his only option at this point. He has to fire the coach. My hope is he is smart enough to see that he needs to change more then the coach now, and he will do it this summer. PS.. notice how Pleks has really played better lately.. I would suggest he was one of the few who didn't quit on his coach but tried hard to play better. I am not a huge fan, but I give him a big plus for that. I should add that I am not surprised. Gainey had nothing else to do but fire himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Actually, wrong... It means this gutless pukes quit on their coach. If he came in and changed the strategy and lines, then yes.. tactically better. In this case, it will just prove once again that the leaders of this team screwed their coach. they will play better, exit in the first 2 rounds, and then we will repeat this with the next coach. Gainey absolutely must gut these pukes. I understand that he is desperate right now. He didn't move at the deadline so this is his only option at this point. He has to fire the coach. My hope is he is smart enough to see that he needs to change more then the coach now, and he will do it this summer. PS.. notice how Pleks has really played better lately.. I would suggest he was one of the few who didn't quit on his coach but tried hard to play better. I am not a huge fan, but I give him a big plus for that. I am in absolute agreement that our core must go. I also do not believe that Carbo is a bad coach and is entirely to blame. I do believe that Gainey is a better coach than Carbo (and there are better coaches out there) and he will prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) I nominate KoZed for Avatar of The Year Edited March 9, 2009 by sbhatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I am in absolute agreement that our core must go. I also do not believe that Carbo is a bad coach and is entirely to blame. I do believe that Gainey is a better coach than Carbo (and there are better coaches out there) and he will prove it. Well, check out Gainey's record. It is not as good as Carbo's. Gainey will do better, just because as the GM he will command more respect (short term). In any case, it is very rare that a coaching change fixes the long term issues. Usually, the GM or core players go within a year. Ottawa is a recent example, they are still screwed and will be until they get a GM that will fix the core team issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Well, check out Gainey's record. It is not as good as Carbo's. Gainey will do better, just because as the GM he will command more respect (short term). In any case, it is very rare that a coaching change fixes the long term issues. Usually, the GM or core players go within a year. Ottawa is a recent example, they are still screwed and will be until they get a GM that will fix the core team issues. This is clearly a short term solution designed at making the playoffs. Follow this up with dropping Koivu and Kovalev, hiring an experienced NHL coach and starting fresh next year. I will be pissed if Bob brings back the same basic team next season. Then this move will be as stupid as Kozed and you suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mineral Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Well, check out Gainey's record. It is not as good as Carbo's. Carbonneau's coaching record with Montreal was a combined 124-83-23. I think that's pretty damned good for a 'rookie' coach. Gainey's record 1990-91 Minnesota North Stars NHL Head 80 27 39 14 0 0.425 Lost in Finals 1991-92 Minnesota North Stars NHL Head 80 32 42 6 0 0.438 Lost in round 1 1992-93 Minnesota North Stars NHL Head 84 36 38 10 0 0.488 Out of Playoffs 1993-94 Dallas Stars NHL Head 84 42 29 13 0 0.577 Lost in round 2 1994-95 Dallas Stars NHL Head 48 17 23 8 0 0.438 Lost in round 1 1995-96 Dallas Stars NHL Head† 39 11 19 9 0.397 2005-06 Montreal Canadiens NHL Head‡ 41 23 15 3 0.598 Lost in round 1 You do the math. I don't know why half the folks posting here have more confidence in Gainey's coaching ability than Carbo's. He's barely broken the .500 mark his entire coaching career. Should the Habs buck up for him, it's because he's holding the paychecks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Now all of a sudden Bob Gainey's job is on the line in the words of the immortal Mike Boone. Yawn. The media in Montreal is so lazy. 12 months removed from a first place Conference finish and one of the strongest farm systems in the league with a ton of cap room and Gainey's job is on the line? Sigh. Is there a minimum IQ to be hired? Anybody over 100 need not apply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) Well I think its pretty clear that Lever will be the head coach next season (does he speak French?) I was (am) a big Carbo fan but its been clear for the last couple of weeks that this needed to be done. In my view this pretty much guarantees us 5th place or better. I find it interesting that Gainey waited untit just before a long home stand to pull the trigger. Of course, this is the thing GMs usually do but for some reason Gainey doing it surprises me. Edited March 10, 2009 by Peter Puck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Kozed: You are using the firing of a good man, a guy who bleeds bleu blanc et rouge, who was clearly let down by his players to blame Koivu??? I'm not "using" anything, just trying to get the point, the pattern through. The captain represents the players, and the players accomplished nothing yet they're still here while the coaches just keep coming and going. God forbids that the players who had a responsibility to get everyone to play for the coach gets any sort of negative guilt by association when coaches keeps getting fired yet the results remains the same. Nah... Easier to just put it all on the coache's head. I know there's tons of Saku fans who just dont want to believe anything else than the old tune "great inspirational leader!". Suit yourselves. Then wonder why the quick-fix solution of changing the coach never give better results; why more talent on the team doesnt give better results, why everything changing around the captain always amount to the same thing? Can anyone answer that? Results speak for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Carbonneau's coaching record with Montreal was a combined 124-83-23. I think that's pretty damned good for a 'rookie' coach. Gainey's record 1990-91 Minnesota North Stars NHL Head 80 27 39 14 0 0.425 Lost in Finals 1991-92 Minnesota North Stars NHL Head 80 32 42 6 0 0.438 Lost in round 1 1992-93 Minnesota North Stars NHL Head 84 36 38 10 0 0.488 Out of Playoffs 1993-94 Dallas Stars NHL Head 84 42 29 13 0 0.577 Lost in round 2 1994-95 Dallas Stars NHL Head 48 17 23 8 0 0.438 Lost in round 1 1995-96 Dallas Stars NHL Head† 39 11 19 9 0.397 2005-06 Montreal Canadiens NHL Head‡ 41 23 15 3 0.598 Lost in round 1 You do the math. I don't know why half the folks posting here have more confidence in Gainey's coaching ability than Carbo's. He's barely broken the .500 mark his entire coaching career. Should the Habs buck up for him, it's because he's holding the paychecks. Well there is some base level thinking. Why not factor in bonus OT points for losses and shootout points that would have been OT ties before you judge the records. Then look at the strength of rosters and take in playoff results before you make a real assessment. A proper assesment requires a little more homework than this. Also, Gainey has shown an ability to make his teams play past their capabilities and he also manages to get players to buy into his system. Both things that most people complained about Carbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 (edited) Did anyone watch the (lack of) progression of Carbo as coach? I'm shocked at the numbers of nay-sayers here despite the obvious problems on the ice. Somehow it's blamed on the players, and in particular the existing core of the team, when they somehow can't perform in Carbo's design-less system. From one year to the next, there was always a continual issue in the defensive end, no matter who was brought in and how a defender improved. This disastrous season was down to the SYSTEM (or lack thereof) and the ability of almost every other coach in the league to counter it. You can blame Koivu et al all you like, but when the majority of the players are gone from the Dark Days, it's really not the players who are at issue. This was, pure and simple, an utter lack of coaching ability. Not to say that he can't coach - rather that his ideas were no longer taking in the dressing room and he had no ability to make them stick. The quality of players improved from year to year while Carbo was coached. The depth improved. But the same issues remained from the beginning of his reign until the end. I believe (and this is mostly theory) that Carbo wanted 18 players to be "Carbolesque". Poke the puck, play the blueline, hit, and etc........all other aspects of strategy - and block shots too. It's like he wanted the Habs to be "Mini-Carbo's" Over the course of the last season and glaringly obvious in this one, it occured to me that maybe there were TOO MANY RULES! Too many standards have to be met or then it becomes Steve Bégin. Dandenault isn't happy. Even Halak isn't happy. I hope the players weren't punished for these reasons. It's almost as if Carbo is a perfectionist. You could be strategically awesome in a game but you didn't do this important "Mini Carbo" aspect on 1 facet of your game - IT WAS FOR SHAME! Carbo wanted the kitchen sink from his players. Asking 110% of your team is important but in Carbo's system it just seemed impossible. I'm basing this on some media. It's mostly been what I've seen of the team and what the players and coaches have said. Still, it's just a theory. And please don't come down too hard on me for me being so critical. Carbo was my favourite all time player from my era that I watched live. :( :( Edited March 10, 2009 by Athlétique.Canadien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newf Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Did anyone watch the (lack of) progression of Carbo as coach? I'm shocked at the numbers of nay-sayers here despite the obvious problems on the ice. Somehow it's blamed on the players, and in particular the existing core of the team, when they somehow can't perform in Carbo's design-less system. From one year to the next, there was always a continual issue in the defensive end, no matter who was brought in and how a defender improved. This disastrous season was down to the SYSTEM (or lack thereof) and the ability of almost every other coach in the league to counter it. You can blame Koivu et al all you like, but when the majority of the players are gone from the Dark Days, it's really not the players who are at issue. This was, pure and simple, an utter lack of coaching ability. Not to say that he can't coach - rather that his ideas were no longer taking in the dressing room and he had no ability to make them stick. The quality of players improved from year to year while Carbo was coached. The depth improved. But the same issues remained from the beginning of his reign until the end. nice post colin :bow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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