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What needs to happen in 2010 for us to be a contender.


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Just a reminder THE OLYMPIC TRADE FREEZE BEGINS MIDNIGHT FEB 12, ENDING MIDNIGHT FEB 28 2010.

The trade deadline is March 3rd. so there really isn’t that much time to get any trades completed

I understand O'Byrne is not making the trip to Washington ??????

Yes. He has some family issues. He went home.

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In 2010 there will be a draft that could make us a contender

in 2015, in the 5 year plan.

Timmins is probably flashing on Riley Sheahan and Cam Fowler, asking Bob

to trade Plek for a pick probably 11 or 12. Some huys named Forbort or Bjugstad.

All american boys by the way.

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What a lot of people forget is that we are probably the team most hurt by the fact it's an Olympic year. With a new core and new coach, a team like ours has to spend a lot of time practicing in order to learn Martin's system an develop chemistry and whatnot. The problem is that, if you read I/O daily, you'll notice Martin is forced to cancel a lot of practices due to the schedule. It's not the only source of our problems but it's one worth noting.

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The only move Bob can REALISTICALLY make is trading Halak...and I'm not even sure he's gonna do it. Mostly because i don't believe Halak's value throughout the NHL is very high!

That might change after the Olympics, but right now, we will NOT get a top 6 forward for Halak.

What the Habs need is to stay healthy and continue to play aggressive hockey. Not the passive crap they were playing just before they went on the road trip!

Correct!!

And Moen to hit Alfredson's Crosby's Gaborik's and likes And LaPierre to spit at the players on the bench!!! and then Laraque to belt the retaliation!

Come on! the Fourth and third line think they are scoring hockey players with J.Martin!!! get your roles figured out people Thats why Gainey got you!!!

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BG can make several moves. Trading Pleks, Hamrlik, Metro, Lapierre, Gorges, O'Byrne etc. and at least 2 more Dmen. You can't have 4 of the top 10 trnover guys in the league on the same defense.

Subban, White and Pyatt will all be on the team next year.

The team currently is playing with 8 forwards, Metro, Lapierre, MAB and Laraque bring NOTHING to the the table. They don't hit, they don't fight, they don't check, they don't score (MAB) PP is the exception.

3rd and 4th liners need to do something out there, hit, check and stand up for your team mates.

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BG can make several moves. Trading Pleks, Hamrlik, Metro, Lapierre, Gorges, O'Byrne etc. and at least 2 more Dmen. You can't have 4 of the top 10 trnover guys in the league on the same defense.

Subban, White and Pyatt will all be on the team next year.

The team currently is playing with 8 forwards, Metro, Lapierre, MAB and Laraque bring NOTHING to the the table. They don't hit, they don't fight, they don't check, they don't score (MAB) PP is the exception.

3rd and 4th liners need to do something out there, hit, check and stand up for your team mates.

What good will rebuilding do us now? As long as we have Gomez on the roster - perhaps barring multiple top 5 picks - this is as talented a lineup as we are going to have.

I could see trading Hamrlik to open up the cap space to upgrade someone else. I can't see a fire sale where we trade our best players and then put our hope in our "good, young players" - who people only like because they are young; once Pyatt, Weber and White are 26 people will be saying to get rid of these role players for some "good, young players."

We're still in a position where we're better off tweaking the roster and hoping to make the playoffs than we are retooling and then finding ourselves in the same position in 2 years.

I also don't see how you can have a problem with Metro. He's been awesome - and it isn't his fault that we don't have a better third line center. O'Byrne has also been doing well this season. Here's another young guy that everyone wanted to play because he was young, but now that they see him play, they want to dump him to make room for a young guy.

Bergeron, Metro, Lapierre, Gorges and O'Byrne are all too economical to be traded (except for maybe Metro). They're good bargains and three of them are young. None of them are even overpaid. For the price we signed MAB at, people should be happy that he's around.

The only two players we have that are totally useless are Laraque and D'Agostini.

Hammer, Halak, Plekanec and Sergei Kostitsyn are the only guys I could see getting traded.

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First of all, we will be sellers. Presently we have to play (bat) well over 6oo for a remaining games to creep into the play-offs, and we see no indication judging by the play this season that that is even possible. One thing for sure that we have to address, is we can't be out shot by large margins game in game out. We must adjust the style of play to reach that goal. I resolve the goaltending issue pronto. I would be very careful how you would achieve that goal. Clearly you have options. All my defense would be marketable, but I would expect a premium return for Markov, Gorges and O'byrne, the later two just because the are young going forward.

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Bargains?

You can find better players for the price they are paying those guys.

I'd rather have Pyatt and Russel out there then Lapierre and Metro right now. They don't do anything.

Unless MAB is shooting the puck, he is worthless, and Laraque doesn't even need to mentioned with his play all year.

So again, they are playing with 8 forwards, you can't win like that.

You can go out and get 3rd and 4th liners for the same price who do the job better then habs are currently.

You can't win with 1 1/2 physical players, Moen Pacioretty.

The defense speaks for itself, turnovers, soft, slow, out of position.

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What good will rebuilding do us now? As long as we have Gomez on the roster - perhaps barring multiple top 5 picks - this is as talented a lineup as we are going to have.

I could see trading Hamrlik to open up the cap space to upgrade someone else. I can't see a fire sale where we trade our best players and then put our hope in our "good, young players" - who people only like because they are young; once Pyatt, Weber and White are 26 people will be saying to get rid of these role players for some "good, young players."

We're still in a position where we're better off tweaking the roster and hoping to make the playoffs than we are retooling and then finding ourselves in the same position in 2 years.

I also don't see how you can have a problem with Metro. He's been awesome - and it isn't his fault that we don't have a better third line center. O'Byrne has also been doing well this season. Here's another young guy that everyone wanted to play because he was young, but now that they see him play, they want to dump him to make room for a young guy.

Bergeron, Metro, Lapierre, Gorges and O'Byrne are all too economical to be traded (except for maybe Metro). They're good bargains and three of them are young. None of them are even overpaid. For the price we signed MAB at, people should be happy that he's around.

The only two players we have that are totally useless are Laraque and D'Agostini.

Hammer, Halak, Plekanec and Sergei Kostitsyn are the only guys I could see getting traded.

Great post, BTH. I have to laugh sometimes at the way people go cowabunga over unproven young players while crapping all over those same young players when they go through growth pains (Price, Lats, Pacioretty, etc.). In my opinion the real 'rebuild' (if there is one) will unfold in the next 3-5 years, behind this core. It will be done through drafting, development, and hopefully the occasional shrewd acquisition along the lines of Pouilot. In 4-5 years, for instance, we will need to have a #1 C ready to supplant Gomez. Subban will be coming into his own. So will Price. And so forth. (I don't say this is a guarantee; I'm just saying that I believe it's Bob's 'plan').

I heartily agree with your list of possible trade candidates. But you know, while Metropolit is great, and in fact an understated key to this team, he's also 35 years old. I can see the argument for dealing him *if* it gets back a credible pick. (I don't think it would...but I can see him being moved under those circumstances).

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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It's amazing how depressed everyone's become. After two losses, everyone's given up on the playoffs, concluded that all of our players suck, that there are better, cheaper, younger players to be found everywhere that we should go get, and that our team is weak at every area. What's even more surprising is that we don't see the usual counter-attack of posters saying that half the team has been injured for the first half of the season, and now we have Pouliot, and soon Kostitsyn will be back in the line up, and reminding us that the season is only half-way done. It's just all-round, one-sided depression.

Great post, BTH. I have to laugh sometimes at the way people go cowabunga over unproven young players while crapping all over those same young players when they go through growth pains (Price, Lats, Pacioretty, etc.). In my opinion the real 'rebuild' (if there is one) will unfold in the next 3-5 years, behind this core. It will be done through drafting, development, and hopefully the occasional shrewd acquisition along the lines of Pouilot. In 4-5 years, for instance, we will need to have a #1 C ready to supplant Gomez. Subban will be coming into his own. So will Price. And so forth. (I don't say this is a guarantee; I'm just saying that I believe it's Bob's 'plan').

I heartily agree with your list of possible trade candidates. But you know, while Metropolit is great, and in fact an understated key to this team, he's also 35 years old. I can see the argument for dealing him *if* it gets back a credible pick. (I don't think it would...but I can see him being moved under those circumstances).

If we're selling at the deadline, I could also see us trading Metropolit for a 4th round pick or something but it really isn't worth it unless we've already traded Plekanec or Hamrlik. If Metro and Laraque are the only guys we're selling, we may as well just keep Metro as he'll be useful for the rest of the season.

I don't see how we can rebuild while we have this core in place. The only way to get from this quality to Cup contender is to wait for Price to become a franchise goaltender. Trading Plekanec for a 1st rounder will do nothing. Maybe we'll draft another Leblanc or Higgins or Pacioretty (not bad players). That isn't enough. We'll just be even more mediocre.

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BTH, you're right about the attitude since sunday's loss. I think it has alot to do with how important the weekend was. Also, it's sobering, when you consider what sort of pace the team needs to maintain to get into the playoffs.

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If you are referring to me, i don't have a bad attitude, i am simply stating what needs to happen to improve the team.

I want the team to win, and the players that are not cutting it should be looked at and moved if possible to upgrade a position.

I don't know if alot of you watch alot of hockey but the habs need a serious upgrade to the d and 3rd and 4th lines. They aren't good enough to comete with the big boys.

They still have the same problems they have had for years, too soft, too easy to play against, no size on the 3rd and 4th line, the others don't use there size. The D zone is poor at best.

I like the top 6 but they can't afford pleks, they need a replacement for him. I like Moen and Pacioretty as wingers on the third. I don't like the rest.

I like Markov, I like Gill on the 3rd pairing, I like either hamrlik or Spacek on the 2nd pairing, they can move one, they are basically the same player. Subban will make the team next year.

Mara is good team mate, tough, physical and stands up for team mates may be better suited for a partner for Markov.

O'Byrne plays like he is 5'9'' 180 pounds.

Gorges is ok, on a good team he is a 5 or 6, not a yop pairing guy.

I like the work eithic of this years team as well.

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The first issue, in the ‘Sissy’ thread someone had posted Spacek had three years left, it was a three year contract with only two years plus the remainder of this year left. Not too important just a correction. The question I have, is our expectations of Spacek as a goal scorer unrealistic. He scored 10 goals in 99/00 that is ten years ago the rest of his career has been in single digit goals. My problem with BG acquiring him, is he is 35 years old, left handed and we are paying almost $4 million.

Again a reminder L-Handed defense men are playing with a disadvantage on offense and defense when asked to play right Dee. It is not as much a problem for forwards as it is on defense.

I’m reading some posts suggesting that we should be looking for more scoring from our defensemen. I’m watching the same games, and I see the problem more as a breakdown in clearing the area in front of our goaltenders so rebounds are not automatic goals. Gill does a fairly decent job on a regular basis, the rest have their moments. Exception being Bergeron. He is definitely not a Defenseman. Maybe, and just maybe, he might be a forward that can play the PP.

We will all be getting the chance on Wednesday to watch Erik Johnson 2006 #1 pick 6’4” RH D-man.

ASSETS: Has a great shot from the point. Skates extremely well for a big man and has a mean streak that can rattle opposing forwards. Owns all-around upside.

FLAWS: Is still working on his positional skills, as he tends to leave the zone too early on occasion. Must be a more consistent presence and improve his defense.

And David Perron a 2007 first rounder #26 overall a RH right winger who this week has bee moved back from left wing to right wing. A 50 point player last year.

ASSETS: Is a great dangler with the puck. Can play on either side of center and excels in open space. Is both a finisher and playmaker.

FLAWS: Must continue to work on his positioning and defensive-zone coverage in order to maximize his NHL potential. Takes some shifts off.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Ultra-skilled winger.

There is no doubt in my mind, these are the kind of players BG should be looking at. Offer whatever it takes to get them regardless of the cost. If I was BG I would offer for them Price, S Kostitsyn and Hamdlik and if that didn’t get JD’s attention I would throw in Subban . Save AK and Plekanec for a shot at Vermette, A first or second line center under contract for five years at $3,250. Million.

I can’t remember when we had a #1 or #2 draft pick as we finish in the middle of the pack most years so in acquiring high draft pick from other teams you build from strength not from hoping mediocre players will develop the necessary skills all at the same time to become a contender. Pouliot is a start, now he has to finish the ‘Bob the Builder” plan

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It's amazing how depressed everyone's become. After two losses, everyone's given up on the playoffs, concluded that all of our players suck, that there are better, cheaper, younger players to be found everywhere that we should go get, and that our team is weak at every area. What's even more surprising is that we don't see the usual counter-attack of posters saying that half the team has been injured for the first half of the season, and now we have Pouliot, and soon Kostitsyn will be back in the line up, and reminding us that the season is only half-way done. It's just all-round, one-sided depression.

You're right. I thought about counter-attacking, but honestly, I'm sick and tired of all the hysterical negativity and outright rage that explodes after every single loss. It's ridiculous, and trying to stem the tide is futile, so why bother.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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You're right. I thought about counter-attacking, but honestly, I'm sick and tired of all the hysterical negativity and outright rage that explodes after every single loss. It's ridiculous, and trying to stem the tide is futile, so why bother.

+1. What's the point.

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Here is another suggestion from Moneypuck on another site that could be a possibility for Gainey. ‘Moneypuck’ is without a doubt one of very few that could be considered a draft specialist. He follows this area, NA and European players very closely. When he post anything it is from experience and realistic thought.

Not my choice of Goalies to trade, but I could live with it

QUOTE (Moneypuck @ Jan 18 2010, 04:20 PM)

I rarely if ever post a trade suggestion in this thread, but here it goes:

To Dallas:

G Jaroslav Halak

2nd round pick 2010

To Montreal:

F Scott Glennie

G Alex Auld

Analysis:

Dallas gets a goalie who they can keep long-term who is having a great season and is young with potential. They get cheaper and better in net as well as get a good pick.

Montreal gets decent value on a goalie, getting Dallas first round pick from 2009 who is still in junior. Glennie won't be able to help right now and is likely years away, but any sort of upside you can get from trading a goalie is great and Glennie has good upside. Montreal doesn't get better now, but they get better down the line.

Auld is just a depth move and will leave as FA after this season.

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You want to trade Price AND Subban away? You are nuts., glad you are not a GM.

Obviously, you didn’t have the time to read the post as clearly as I might have hoped. I clearly said “only if “ Subban was required. Acquiring Johnson at 21 years old eliminates the need to hope Subban will be everything you think he MIGHT become.

Did you really look at the credentials of the returning players or is it you just don’t want to lose Price and Subban???

Rather than respond now, Let me know what you think after Wednesday’s game perhaps you might see things differently

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BTH: Obviously you are not a numbers man. The chances of the Canadiens making the play-offs is very bleak. I really don't know how long ago that the Canadiens played at .630% clip for over 30 games. They haven't been very good for a long time. The Canadiens will not make the play-off as presently constructed. You bet the farm on it.

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You're right. I thought about counter-attacking, but honestly, I'm sick and tired of all the hysterical negativity and outright rage that explodes after every single loss. It's ridiculous, and trying to stem the tide is futile, so why bother.

+1. What's the point.

+2. I stated at the beginning of the season that this team would live or die with 2 things :

1. Overall health of top 2 lines + Markov and Price.

2. Andrei Kostitsyn emerging into a 30 goals scorer

well...

1. Overall health of top 2 lines + Markov and Price.

2. Andrei Kostitsyn emerging because of point 1.

Edited by JoeLassister
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It's not about negativity or depression. It's what could happen to make this team a contender.

A contender team usually doesn't fight for a playoff spot at game 82.

This team usually has an identity, really stick together good time and most of all when it gets

tough, they find a way to win.

Nobody has doubts in this league that they can win a game against the Habs on the road or at home.

So the only thing that could change this low in the middle team into a contender is a true top prospect.

Give the best young players the chance to find their scoring touch in the AHL. Paccioretti and D'Agostini.

Fire Gainey and Timmins before trade deadline. Dump Spacek, Laraque, Metropolit, Bergeron for draft picks.

Trade the Kots before they move to KHL. Sign Plekanek.

Hire Patrick Roy as GM, Guy Boucher as coach and André Savard as pro scout.

Trade up to get Hall.

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The first issue, in the 'Sissy' thread someone had posted Spacek had three years left, it was a three year contract with only two years plus the remainder of this year left. Not too important just a correction. The question I have, is our expectations of Spacek as a goal scorer unrealistic. He scored 10 goals in 99/00 that is ten years ago the rest of his career has been in single digit goals. My problem with BG acquiring him, is he is 35 years old, left handed and we are paying almost $4 million.

Again a reminder L-Handed defense men are playing with a disadvantage on offense and defense when asked to play right Dee. It is not as much a problem for forwards as it is on defense.

I'm reading some posts suggesting that we should be looking for more scoring from our defensemen. I'm watching the same games, and I see the problem more as a breakdown in clearing the area in front of our goaltenders so rebounds are not automatic goals. Gill does a fairly decent job on a regular basis, the rest have their moments. Exception being Bergeron. He is definitely not a Defenseman. Maybe, and just maybe, he might be a forward that can play the PP.

We will all be getting the chance on Wednesday to watch Erik Johnson 2006 #1 pick 6'4" RH D-man.

ASSETS: Has a great shot from the point. Skates extremely well for a big man and has a mean streak that can rattle opposing forwards. Owns all-around upside.

FLAWS: Is still working on his positional skills, as he tends to leave the zone too early on occasion. Must be a more consistent presence and improve his defense.

And David Perron a 2007 first rounder #26 overall a RH right winger who this week has bee moved back from left wing to right wing. A 50 point player last year.

ASSETS: Is a great dangler with the puck. Can play on either side of center and excels in open space. Is both a finisher and playmaker.

FLAWS: Must continue to work on his positioning and defensive-zone coverage in order to maximize his NHL potential. Takes some shifts off.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Ultra-skilled winger.

There is no doubt in my mind, these are the kind of players BG should be looking at. Offer whatever it takes to get them regardless of the cost. If I was BG I would offer for them Price, S Kostitsyn and Hamdlik and if that didn't get JD's attention I would throw in Subban . Save AK and Plekanec for a shot at Vermette, A first or second line center under contract for five years at $3,250. Million.

I can't remember when we had a #1 or #2 draft pick as we finish in the middle of the pack most years so in acquiring high draft pick from other teams you build from strength not from hoping mediocre players will develop the necessary skills all at the same time to become a contender. Pouliot is a start, now he has to finish the 'Bob the Builder" plan

Go back to your computer game. First off, St Louis would not consider moving either of those two assets. Maybe on your x-box or whatever you kids play now you can get anyone you want by offering tons in return but not in the real world. It doesn't happen! Secondly, why would we trade away the best defensive prospect we have had in longer than I can remember. PK is the best defenceman in the AHL in his first year! He will very likely be as good or better than Johnson and costs us nothing, let alone one of the top young goaltenders in the NHL. Pleks is a better player than Vermette you would throw AK in with him? Ak is one of our few top 6 forwards incase you didn't know. You get my bad post of the month award! Remarkable considering the other foolishness i have read in the last couple weeks. :puke: :puke: :puke: On another note, St Louis has Conklin and Mason, why would they want Price? Hammer and SK? If you were StLouis, would you take those guys to replace your top young forward and D-man, just to get a prospect goalie you don't really need? I think not! It takes to sides that are both happy to make a trade, St Louis isn't run by a Dual-core Pentium last I checked.

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