dlbalr Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Cap hit for next year would be half of $5,062,500, this season would be half of give or take 3 mil by the time the process plays itself out, or about $1.5 mil. Such a move would toss the Habs into actually using LTIR. 4 points in 15 games, that's not exciting me much, he's a bottom 6 player at best now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Cap hit for next year would be half of $5,062,500, this season would be half of give or take 3 mil by the time the process plays itself out, or about $1.5 mil. Such a move would toss the Habs into actually using LTIR. 4 points in 15 games, that's not exciting me much, he's a bottom 6 player at best now. ?!?! Then I take it back, I dont get this half price thing Next year the cap hit is shared between both teams as well?!?!? But next year the team he plays for has to pay him the full 5 mil. yet the cap hit for next year is what? the average of this diminished salary year and the next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 (edited) ?!?! Then I take it back, I dont get this half price thing Next year the cap hit is shared between both teams as well?!?!? But next year the team he plays for has to pay him the full 5 mil. yet the cap hit for next year is what? the average of this diminished salary year and the next? Half the salary/cap hit is absorbed by his old team. So even a 5 year deal would still be half price. You might be confusing it with a buyout. Edited December 14, 2010 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Half the salary/cap hit is absorbed by his old team. So even a 5 year deal would still be half price. You might be confusing it with a buyout. Exactly, it's half of the remaining contract, no matter how long the term. Dallas is still paying Sean Avery half his salary while assuming half of his original cap hit after losing him on re-entry a couple years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 re-entry would be $2.5M per year. That is not a terrible deal. Not sure I want to be on the hook for him at 2.5 for 2011-12, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Not sure I want to be on the hook for him at 2.5 for 2011-12, though. Same here - if he was still a 40 ish point guy, I'd ponder giving him a look but I think even those days may have passed him by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 I don't think there's too much legitimacy to the site I'm about to link to but it poses an interesting name in Niklas Hagman. http://www.gohockeygo.com/site/?p=462 Not sure he'd fit beyond this year though and I do believe he's signed for one more season at 3.5 mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HABSROCK11 Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 I don't think there's too much legitimacy to the site I'm about to link to but it poses an interesting name in Niklas Hagman. http://www.gohockeygo.com/site/?p=462 Not sure he'd fit beyond this year though and I do believe he's signed for one more season at 3.5 mil. We don't need a forward..If anything, with Pacioretty playing like he has, we have an access of top 6 talent, IMO.. A top d-man, would be on my wish list... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 We don't need a forward..If anything, with Pacioretty playing like he has, we have an access of top 6 talent, IMO.. A top d-man, would be on my wish list... I'd prefer a forward. Montreal has already proven they can shutdown any team. They've also proven that when the other team plays a strong shutdown game, the Habs are lucky to score a goal. With another guy like Hagman, they'll have Cup contending forward depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 I'd prefer a forward. Montreal has already proven they can shutdown any team. They've also proven that when the other team plays a strong shutdown game, the Habs are lucky to score a goal. With another guy like Hagman, they'll have Cup contending forward depth. I can't argue with your logic, but I can't help but think if Hamrlik, Spacek, Gill or Gorges goes down for any extended period of time then our D will be a glaring weakness. I'd feel much more comfortable with the acquisition of a Top 4 D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 (edited) I can't argue with your logic, but I can't help but think if Hamrlik, Spacek, Gill or Gorges goes down for any extended period of time then our D will be a glaring weakness. I'd feel much more comfortable with the acquisition of a Top 4 D. Same here but if it's one or the other, I want a forward. I feel like the Habs have a realistic chance in a playoff series against any team but Philadelphia. I think the addition of a guy like Hagman would give us a better chance of beating the Flyers than the addition of a guy like Bieksa. We won't win a war of attrition against them. Edited December 19, 2010 by BTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikohab Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 A top 4-D is a must and I am looking at Regher as a good and solid fit. I think that Regher has 2 more years left in his contract at $4,000,000 per year and that makes good sense to me. Acquiring a player like Regher would ease the physical strain from our defence corp and also help out Price which many of us have already forgotten that he's only human due to his almost supernatural performance thus far this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 A top 4-D is a must and I am looking at Regher as a good and solid fit. I think that Regher has 2 more years left in his contract at $4,000,000 per year and that makes good sense to me. Acquiring a player like Regher would ease the physical strain from our defence corp and also help out Price which many of us have already forgotten that he's only human due to his almost supernatural performance thus far this season. Just over $4 mil per year for 2, yep. Regehr does have a full NMC though. He is one of the players I wouldn't mind bringing in that is under contract beyond this season. Given that cap hit though, I'd love for a deal to come later in the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 A top 4-D is a must and I am looking at Regher as a good and solid fit. I think that Regher has 2 more years left in his contract at $4,000,000 per year and that makes good sense to me. Acquiring a player like Regher would ease the physical strain from our defence corp and also help out Price which many of us have already forgotten that he's only human due to his almost supernatural performance thus far this season. I respect BTH's opinion a lot, but as some may recall, this is my view as well. All other things being equal - and no further major injuries - I believe that between Pouliot, Patches, and maybe Eller, we can squeak by at forward; but that we will need to add a top-4 defenceman (preferably Regher) in order to have a really convincing shot of reaching the Finals. Part of it has to do with a general philosophy that a good defenceman is always worth more than a good forward (a longstanding conviction of mine). Part of it is that defence wins championships, especially for a team that is constructed like ours. And part of it is the gigantic hole that Markov's injury leaves us with. A Regher could really raise our defence to a dominant level. I like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HABSROCK11 Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 If Hamrlik, Spacek, and Gill were younger and didn't tend to wear down from logging so many minutes, then yes, a forward would be adequate, but with our stud down for the year (Markov) who plays in every situation, is on the ice for PP and PK and is a major contributor eating up large minutes, the more time added to these 3 will take its toll on our team as a whole..Defensively.. One guy I would love to bring in would be Shea Weber..RFA this coming off season and there are rumblings that NASH will not be able to afford his services..There has been trade history with us..SK for Boyd/Ellis.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 One guy I would love to bring in would be Shea Weber..RFA this coming off season and there are rumblings that NASH will not be able to afford his services..There has been trade history with us..SK for Boyd/Ellis.. Weber is their captain, I think they'll be moving some other pieces to ensure they keep him. Even still, his cost would be much, much greater than the other options out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 (edited) I respect BTH's opinion a lot, but as some may recall, this is my view as well. All other things being equal - and no further major injuries - I believe that between Pouliot, Patches, and maybe Eller, we can squeak by at forward; but that we will need to add a top-4 defenceman (preferably Regher) in order to have a really convincing shot of reaching the Finals. Part of it has to do with a general philosophy that a good defenceman is always worth more than a good forward (a longstanding conviction of mine). Part of it is that defence wins championships, especially for a team that is constructed like ours. And part of it is the gigantic hole that Markov's injury leaves us with. A Regher could really raise our defence to a dominant level. I like that. It is also more likely for a young unknown forward to contribute out of nowhere in the playoffs. Paul Dipietro, Claude Lemieux, John Leclair, Raffi Torres, Mark Lamb, Adam Deadmarsh, Martin Lapointe etc etc. There are 50+ years of names of unknown forwards who produce at 2-3 times their regular rate. Wingers have the easiest defensive responsibility on the ice. You can introduce a young/new player into a system and have them produce immediate results. Veterans can get hot out of nowhere and spark an offense with huge goals that convert an average offense into a strong one. In a small sample size this is a realistic scenario. Now try to list off young/new/veteran defensemen that all of a sudden raise their defensive level in the playoffs to a point where an average defensive team morphs into a dominant or strong one? Young defensemen have one of the hardest jobs to do when they adjust to the NHL, look at some of the brain cramp plays PK made against the Flyers in the Conference Finals. I would rather go into the playoffs with a Regehr or Bieksa and hope that Desharnies, White, Lapierre, Pacioretty, Pouliot or Kostitsyn get hot for 6 weeks than enter the playoffs with the D core they have now and praying if one of them gets hurt that Carle, Weber or Picard will raise their level. I would add a D-man. This team with Regehr would be one of the best defensive teams in the league, with Hagman does anything change? Edited December 19, 2010 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 Weber is their captain, I think they'll be moving some other pieces to ensure they keep him. Even still, his cost would be much, much greater than the other options out there. Suter ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 rer It is also more likely for a young unknown forward to contribute out of nowhere in the playoffs. Paul Dipietro, Claude Lemieux, John Leclair, Raffi Torres, Mark Lamb, Adam Deadmarsh, Martin Lapointe etc etc. There are 50+ years of names of unknown forwards who produce at 2-3 times their regular rate. Wingers have the easiest defensive responsibility on the ice. You can introduce a young/new player into a system and have them produce immediate results. Veterans can get hot out of nowhere and spark an offense with huge goals that convert an average offense into a strong one. In a small sample size this is a realistic scenario. Now try to list off young/new/veteran defensemen that all of a sudden raise their defensive level in the playoffs to a point where an average defensive team morphs into a dominant or strong one? Young defensemen have one of the hardest jobs to do when they adjust to the NHL, look at some of the brain cramp plays PK made against the Flyers in the Conference Finals. I would rather go into the playoffs with a Regehr or Bieksa and hope that Desharnies, White, Lapierre, Pacioretty, Pouliot or Kostitsyn get hot for 6 weeks than enter the playoffs with the D core they have now and praying if one of them gets hurt that Carle, Weber or Picard will raise their level. I would add a D-man. This team with Regehr would be one of the best defensive teams in the league, with Hagman does anything change? There is a reason why we can name some many forwards (and goalies) who suddenly emerged as stars in the playoffs and we can't name any Dmen. The reason is that goal scoring stats (or goaltending stats) make these players easy to recognize and they get lots of publicity. Any dman who similarly raises his game will not be noticed by the vast majority of people and so we never hear of them. This doesn't mean that they don't exist, just that we can't name them. I can name one: Subban, although his performance last year wasn't really the same sort of sudden emergence you are looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 It is also more likely for a young unknown forward to contribute out of nowhere in the playoffs. Paul Dipietro, Claude Lemieux, John Leclair, Raffi Torres, Mark Lamb, Adam Deadmarsh, Martin Lapointe etc etc. There are 50+ years of names of unknown forwards who produce at 2-3 times their regular rate. Wingers have the easiest defensive responsibility on the ice. You can introduce a young/new player into a system and have them produce immediate results. Veterans can get hot out of nowhere and spark an offense with huge goals that convert an average offense into a strong one. In a small sample size this is a realistic scenario. Now try to list off young/new/veteran defensemen that all of a sudden raise their defensive level in the playoffs to a point where an average defensive team morphs into a dominant or strong one? Young defensemen have one of the hardest jobs to do when they adjust to the NHL, look at some of the brain cramp plays PK made against the Flyers in the Conference Finals. I would rather go into the playoffs with a Regehr or Bieksa and hope that Desharnies, White, Lapierre, Pacioretty, Pouliot or Kostitsyn get hot for 6 weeks than enter the playoffs with the D core they have now and praying if one of them gets hurt that Carle, Weber or Picard will raise their level. I would add a D-man. This team with Regehr would be one of the best defensive teams in the league, with Hagman does anything change? I would love to see Regher in a Habs uniform, especially if PG can fleece Suter for him. :hlogo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 rer There is a reason why we can name some many forwards (and goalies) who suddenly emerged as stars in the playoffs and we can't name any Dmen. The reason is that goal scoring stats (or goaltending stats) make these players easy to recognize and they get lots of publicity. Any dman who similarly raises his game will not be noticed by the vast majority of people and so we never hear of them. This doesn't mean that they don't exist, just that we can't name them. I can name one: Subban, although his performance last year wasn't really the same sort of sudden emergence you are looking for. Subban had 1 good game in the Philly series. The rest of it was filled with poor decisions that killed them against a team that was counterpunching on offense. That is my point though, it is to be expected. I wasn't referring to points only. Leclair produced at a lower rate in the playoffs than he did in the regular season, but he was a dominant presence in the Stanley Cup Final. A guy who would have been totally ignored when assessing the Canadiens Stanley Cup chances in March. The 93 Habs rolled the same 6 D all season. They had Dufresne and Ramage should an injury occur. I have looked over 10 years of finals rosters and no defenseman jumped out at me as particularly dominant from a lower pairing or all of a sudden getting a major minute increase. Why? Because of allotment of minutes and roles. It is harder to put a Hal Gill/Gorges on the top pairing and expect success in such a different role, but you could see a guy like Pouliot or Eller being moved up to the top pair and catching fire. The learning curve in a different environment is just way beyond the responsibility of filling a wing role. There are number one defensemen who changed teams and had strong playoffs, but it is rare for a guy to make a leap in the playoffs. I would love to see Regher in a Habs uniform, especially if PG can fleece Suter for him. :hlogo: We would probably be the first team who doesn't fleece Sutter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 (edited) I would love to see Regher in a Habs uniform, especially if PG can fleece Suter for him. :hlogo: Have you guys actually seen Regher play the last two seasons??? He used to be a solid #2 dman. Now he isn't even consistently been a #3 or #4. His plus minus is a bit deceiving if you actually watch him play. He was never fast, but used to be hard hitting and positionally sound - that's no longer the case. IMO opinion he really isn't much better then Obyrne would have been, if the penguin gave him a chance. Besides, while i agree that the habs greatest need is at defence, what we need is a puck moving dman that can help the PP and is also a physical presence and is defensively sound. Alternatively we could try and move the spaceman and try and get one solid physical dman and in another move pick up a puck moving dman. Id be open to reghyr if we moved Spacek for him (a bit of cap savings for the flames and would be in line with lousy trades Sutter has been making). Wouldn't Buffilynn (spelling?) look good right now. He was the guy I had hoped the Habs would go after in the summer. He is the kind of big guy we need to finally get by Philly. Although I have to say, I can't believe how well the experiment to put him in d has worked - I thought Atlanta was nuts! Edited December 20, 2010 by hab29RETIRED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 (edited) We would probably be the first team who doesn't fleece Sutter. That's what worries me the most. If we could get Regher for a Spacek, Moen (I like Moen as a 4th liner, but at least getting rid of him would prevent the Penguin to consistently move him up to the first two lines - although that would probably mean Darche would become the new top two liner for Martin:wacko:), Pyatt, darche or Laps, i'd be okay with it. That would also be in line with usual fleecing of Sutter. But we're talking about the Habs, so we'd probably end up giving up Ak46, which would be highway robbery for the flames. Edited December 20, 2010 by hab29RETIRED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 It is also more likely for a young unknown forward to contribute out of nowhere in the playoffs. Paul Dipietro, Claude Lemieux, John Leclair, Raffi Torres, Mark Lamb, Adam Deadmarsh, Martin Lapointe etc etc. There are 50+ years of names of unknown forwards who produce at 2-3 times their regular rate. Wingers have the easiest defensive responsibility on the ice. You can introduce a young/new player into a system and have them produce immediate results. Veterans can get hot out of nowhere and spark an offense with huge goals that convert an average offense into a strong one. In a small sample size this is a realistic scenario. Now try to list off young/new/veteran defensemen that all of a sudden raise their defensive level in the playoffs to a point where an average defensive team morphs into a dominant or strong one? Young defensemen have one of the hardest jobs to do when they adjust to the NHL, look at some of the brain cramp plays PK made against the Flyers in the Conference Finals. I would rather go into the playoffs with a Regehr or Bieksa and hope that Desharnies, White, Lapierre, Pacioretty, Pouliot or Kostitsyn get hot for 6 weeks than enter the playoffs with the D core they have now and praying if one of them gets hurt that Carle, Weber or Picard will raise their level. I would add a D-man. This team with Regehr would be one of the best defensive teams in the league, with Hagman does anything change? Remember how big a difference Dominic Moore made last season? Just adding one guy like Hagman to the lineup can make a huge difference. It could bump Moen off the second line, Pyatt into the press box, etc. I think it could really jump start our offense. I'm really happy with Pouliot, Eller and Pacioretty but I'm not yet sold on any of them playing like second liners for a long period of time. I think what eliminates us in the playoffs this year will be a lack of scoring depth, not our inability to prevent goals. Habs have been the #2 defensive team with this D - and this is mostly without Markov who I still have hope will return sometime in the playoffs. Habs shut out two elite teams last April with this D (and great goaltending which Price can realistically provide). They didn't do it by having 6 star d-men, they did it by perfecting a 23-man defensive system. Martin's system masks any deficiencies in our six d-men and you need to consider that our top forwards are pretty capable two-way players and that more than half the forwards on the Habs kill penalties. Not every team has a player like Plekanec that can neutralize an opposing superstar forward. Not to mention that Hal Gill, who is currently a number 5 or 6 defenseman, is sure to morph into a monster playing in a completely defensive environment. I would love to have both but I think that if we want to win this year, we'd be better off with a forward. I'm thinking specifically of a series against Philly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 (edited) Habs have been the #2 defensive team with this D - and this is mostly without Markov who I still have hope will return sometime in the playoffs. Habs shut out two elite teams last April with this D (and great goaltending which Price can realistically provide). They didn't do it by having 6 star d-men, they did it by perfecting a 23-man defensive system. Martin's system masks any deficiencies in our six d-men and you need to consider that our top forwards are pretty capable two-way players and that more than half the forwards on the Habs kill penalties. Not every team has a player like Plekanec that can neutralize an opposing superstar forward. Not to mention that Hal Gill, who is currently a number 5 or 6 defenseman, is sure to morph into a monster playing in a completely defensive environment. I would love to have both but I think that if we want to win this year, we'd be better off with a forward. I'm thinking specifically of a series against Philly. The Habs defensive standing was largely due to Price standing on his head. Now that Price isnt lights out like earlier in the year (still playing well, just not #1 or 2 in the league at this point), the defense is being exposed. Second pair D and hall gill should never be said in the same sentence. Gill should not get much ice time outside of pk duties and should not be playing more then 12 or 13 minutes a night. I'd love to see the Habs add more punch to the offense, but I'd rather see at least one upgrade and even some replacements on the D first. Edited December 20, 2010 by hab29RETIRED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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