Permanent Rumour Thread

[SAKS-AVENUE]

His cap hit 5.5M, it's doable, we wouldn't even need to move anyone to fit him under the cap.

I think it would be a waste of money and space. How does it go from Sundin to Schneider? We don't need him. Not going to happen. If Gainey gets us another player it WILL BE a centre.

[Gman]

I think it would be a waste of money and space. How does it go from Sundin to Schneider? We don't need him. Not going to happen. If Gainey gets us another player it WILL BE a centre.

If there is no quality centre available then it may not be a centre that Gainey brings in. Remember, Carbo has stated that Sergie K could be moved to centre. If that happens then there would be a spot on the wing. That means we could bring in one of the top tier players available, such as Selanne, Shanahan or another winger via trade.

Now, I know Selanne is a long shot at best but Shanahan may be more realistic with his expressed interest to play in Mtl two seasons ago. I personally would love to see Shanahan in a Habs jersey: amazing shot, great on the PP, invaluable veteran leadership, and 3 Stanley Cup rings.

[Habsfan]

Now, I know Selanne is a long shot at best but Shanahan may be more realistic with his expressed interest to play in Mtl two seasons ago. I personally would love to see Shanahan in a Habs jersey: amazing shot, great on the PP, invaluable veteran leadership, and 3 Stanley Cup rings.

You can forget about these old geysers. SUndin was worth it because even though he is 37 years old, he can still skate and produces like a star. Shanahan is finished, he can't even keep up with the younger legs, and his salary demands would be too much for what he brings. Selanne will NEVER LEAVE CALIFORNIA. You can say whatever you want about the Teemu, but he loves California and will not leave it.

One possible solution qwould be to make a trade with Phily. They are presently above the cap, and are desperate for some good defensement. Maybe we could convince them to trade Carter to Montreal and offer them a couple of promising young d-men (don't touch Komisarek)?? WHo knows, maybe Phily is desperate enough to make this trade?

[Gman]

You can forget about these old geysers. SUndin was worth it because even though he is 37 years old, he can still skate and produces like a star. Shanahan is finished, he can't even keep up with the younger legs, and his salary demands would be too much for what he brings. Selanne will NEVER LEAVE CALIFORNIA. You can say whatever you want about the Teemu, but he loves California and will not leave it.

One possible solution qwould be to make a trade with Phily. They are presently above the cap, and are desperate for some good defensement. Maybe we could convince them to trade Carter to Montreal and offer them a couple of promising young d-men (don't touch Komisarek)?? WHo knows, maybe Phily is desperate enough to make this trade?

I agree that Selanne is no option. I disagree with you however in regards to Shanahan. Shanny had 23 goals and 46 points in 73 games on a low scoring Rangers team (24th in the NHL). Older players have proven that they can play and do more than just contribute and I don't see anything to support your claim that he is washed up.

I also think you play too many video games. Why on earth would Philly trade Carter to a conference rival and possible cup contender for only a defensive prospect? Carter would contribute now and for many years, while the prospect (Weber, McDonough, Fischer, etc.) may or may not develop into a solid NHL player. This trade doesn't make sense unless Philly was a team looking to develop for the future.

[habs rule]

If you listened to Bob the other day he said quite clearly that he has no intention of signing Shanny apparently that ship has sailed.

[Chris]

I think this is the team right now. If Sundin signs, great. If not he goes with the current lineup. On paper they are better then last year and that was good enough for first. I don't think they'll manae that again, (2 young goalies) but I think they have a shot at there division.

definitely a playoff team with no additions.

[Habsfan]

I also think you play too many video games. Why on earth would Philly trade Carter to a conference rival and possible cup contender for only a defensive prospect? Carter would contribute now and for many years, while the prospect (Weber, McDonough, Fischer, etc.) may or may not develop into a solid NHL player. This trade doesn't make sense unless Philly was a team looking to develop for the future.

Instead of spewing nonesense, you should try to understand my comments a little more. Why would Phily trade Carter? Because they are already over the Cap. They have guys ike Gagné, Brière, Timonnen and Richards who earn alot of money, and this cap situation they have will only get worse over the next few years.

Phily is a team that is DESPERATE for a solid defenseman, and the Habs are a team that is loaded with talented defensemen. If you trade Carter for 2 or 3 players who have a combined salary of 5 million$(which is what Carter makes) Phily doesn't improve its situation. They would still be over the cap.

by the way, Silly rabbit, Videogames are for Kids!

Edited August 28, 2008 by Habsfan

[CerebusClone]

Phily is a team that is DESPERATE for a solid defenseman, and the Habs are a team that is loaded with talented defensemen. If you trade Carter for 2 or 3 players who have a combined salary of 5 million$(which is what Carter makes) Phily doesn't improve its situation. They would still be over the cap.

Aside from Mike Komisarek, I don't think we have a defenseman that would interest the Flyers at this point in exchange for Jeff Carter. Mostly they need to get rid of Hatcher and Rathje, and they'll be just fine ; from what heard, both Rathje and Hatcher could be on the IR for a little while anyways. Otherwise, they may have to sacrifice a draft pick or player to unload their contracts to a team like Los Angeles who has a lot of cap room left.

Actually, if we forget that both teams are in the same conference and expect to be fighting for the first place, a trade involving Jeff Carter and Mike Komisarek would make sense. The Flyers have great depth down the middle, but could use a quality young defenseman while the Canadiens have great depth on defense while we could use a quality young centre.

One thing is for sure, it's not a O'Byrne, Carle, Valentenko, or even McDonagh that will allow us to trade for Jeff Carter, and Markov and Hamrlik are too expensive...

[Wamsley01]

Aside from Mike Komisarek, I don't think we have a defenseman that would interest the Flyers at this point in exchange for Jeff Carter. Mostly they need to get rid of Hatcher and Rathje, and they'll be just fine ; from what heard, both Rathje and Hatcher could be on the IR for a little while anyways. Otherwise, they may have to sacrifice a draft pick or player to unload their contracts to a team like Los Angeles who has a lot of cap room left.

Actually, if we forget that both teams are in the same conference and expect to be fighting for the first place, a trade involving Jeff Carter and Mike Komisarek would make sense. The Flyers have great depth down the middle, but could use a quality young defenseman while the Canadiens have great depth on defense while we could use a quality young centre.

One thing is for sure, it's not a O'Byrne, Carle, Valentenko, or even McDonagh that will allow us to trade for Jeff Carter, and Markov and Hamrlik are too expensive...

Remember they were looking to trade Carter for Kaberle before Kaberle used his NTC.

So hoping to get him for a couple prospects is akin to Montreal trading Andrei Kostitsyn for some centre prospects...cap or not.

You do not give away players with Star potential in salary dumps. If you do, you will not be a GM in the league for long

unless your name is Mike Milbury.

The Carter stuff is media speculated drivel. He isn't going anywhere without a huge return

[CerebusClone]

Remember they were looking to trade Carter for Kaberle before Kaberle used his NTC.

So hoping to get him for a couple prospects is akin to Montreal trading Andrei Kostitsyn for some centre prospects...cap or not.

You do not give away players with Star potential in salary dumps. If you do, you will not be a GM in the league for long

unless your name is Mike Milbury.

The Carter stuff is media speculated drivel. He isn't going anywhere without a huge return

Isn't that what I said, in different terms? I'm just trying to figure out whether you are replying to my comment or simply adding to it

Like I said, if we want Jeff Carter, it will take a lot more than a decent young player, and we're probably talking about Mike Komisarek being included in such a trade. That's what would make the most sense for the Flyers.

Edited August 28, 2008 by CerebusClone

[Easy Ryder]

Throwing the name of Komisarek in a trade rumor for whoever is an insult to

any habs fan been waiting desperately 15 years or more to have a defensemen

with no pink jackstrap, throwing hits, blocking shots and intimidate opponents.

We have him, we keep him.

[CerebusClone]

Throwing the name of Komisarek in a trade rumor for whoever is an insult to

any habs fan been waiting desperately 15 years or more to have a defensemen

with no pink jackstrap, throwing hits, blocking shots and intimidate opponents.

We have him, we keep him.

Don't get me wrong, I love Mike Komisarek . He's a great physical defenseman, and a great role model inside and outise an arena. I was just saying that if we're even thinking of trading for Jeff Carter, his name will likely be mentionned by the Flyers. To get a quality young player, you have to give up quality players... unless you're dealing with either Mike Milbury, Mike O'Connell or Rejean Houle

With that said, as much as I love Mike Komisarek, it might actually be in the best interest of the team to trade him away. Using this Jeff Carter talk as an example, considering our depth at those two positions, it might be easier to replace Komisarek with a McDonagh, O'Byrne, Valentenko, ... than to find a young centre who's very good today, and could quickly become an All-Star.

Edited August 28, 2008 by CerebusClone

[habs rule]

the trade is doable on a player to player basis but as we know it is damn hard to find a stud defence when you aint got one, so no i would not trade him for carter we can develop a centre trade somone else but we need komi hammer and markov to make the cup run. As a matter of fact we are in need of a 7th defence to replace dandy in my opinion. so while we look ok on defence it is not the time take a backwards step.

[Wamsley01]

Isn't that what I said, in different terms? I'm just trying to figure out whether you are replying to my comment or simply adding to it

Like I said, if we want Jeff Carter, it will take a lot more than a decent young player, and we're probably talking about Mike Komisarek being included in such a trade. That's what would make the most sense for the Flyers.

Just replied to last post

[JoeLassister]

I wouldn't even do Carter for Komi straight up...

[Habsfan]

I wouldn't even do Carter for Komi straight up...

Neither would I. Like Easy Ryder mentionned, we've been waiting forever for a solid defensive d-man who can give bone-crunching hits and now that we have one, some are willing to trade him away for an unproven centre(albeit a solid unproven forward!)

[BTH]

I think it would be a waste of money and space. How does it go from Sundin to Schneider? We don't need him. Not going to happen. If Gainey gets us another player it WILL BE a centre.

There's no way to get a second pairing defenceman at a low price (tradewise) without there being some sort of catch. His age is not a problem since we need him gone soon anyway and the salary is not a problem because we could afford him and still have some space under the cap.

And no, Komisarek for Carter wouldn't be in our best interests because, if nothing else, the player that has proven chemistry with your team always beats getting a new player with equally good potential. Carter could easily not work out with our team (see: Samsonov, Ryder) and trading our #2 D for him for him would be a huge risk for limited gain. This team has every chance of leading the league in goals for again and will challenge for the Cup. Our offence is not a problem, if anything, it'll be keeping goals out of our net if we intend to beat Detroit. That's where trading your best defensive D for a goalscorer is going to hurt us.

If you REALLY want a young, top 2 centre, trade people like McDonagh, Valentenko, Emelin, Carle, Subban, Weber and Fischer for him. Komisarek should be out of the question.

[SAKS-AVENUE]

There's no way to get a second pairing defenceman at a low price (tradewise) without there being some sort of catch. His age is not a problem since we need him gone soon anyway and the salary is not a problem because we could afford him and still have some space under the cap.

And no, Komisarek for Carter wouldn't be in our best interests because, if nothing else, the player that has proven chemistry with your team always beats getting a new player with equally good potential. Carter could easily not work out with our team (see: Samsonov, Ryder) and trading our #2 D for him for him would be a huge risk for limited gain. This team has every chance of leading the league in goals for again and will challenge for the Cup. Our offence is not a problem, if anything, it'll be keeping goals out of our net if we intend to beat Detroit. That's where trading your best defensive D for a goalscorer is going to hurt us.

If you REALLY want a young, top 2 centre, trade people like McDonagh, Valentenko, Emelin, Carle, Subban, Weber and Fischer for him. Komisarek should be out of the question.

I'm thinking your reply was not meant for me. I never suggested any of that. I was just saying......Ya if Sundin doesn't work out let's keep looking for the "Big centre" hole to fill. Schnieder would be a waste of time because I don't think we need him, our D will be very competitive for a long while on it's own.

[BTH]

I'm thinking your reply was not meant for me. I never suggested any of that. I was just saying......Ya if Sundin doesn't work out let's keep looking for the "Big centre" hole to fill. Schnieder would be a waste of time because I don't think we need him, our D will be very competitive for a long while on it's own.

Only the first part was meant for you. The rest for Cerberus, I guess.

[CerebusClone]

Neither would I. Like Easy Ryder mentionned, we've been waiting forever for a solid defensive d-man who can give bone-crunching hits and now that we have one, some are willing to trade him away for an unproven centre(albeit a solid unproven forward!)

I never said we should... just that it could be an opportunity that Gainey - as a good manager - should at least think about at some point during the season with Komisarek becoming an unrestricted free agent. I agree that in the very short run, dealing away a core memebr of the team is risky, but on the longer run, the Habs might benefit from dealing a quality defenseman for a quality centre.

After all, we have great depth at the defense position and almost none at centre, our best prospects (Maxwell and Trotter) being question marks with some interesting upside, but no bonafide star potential. However we have a few young defensemen who could potentially replace Komisarek, starting with Ryan O'Byrne and Valentenko who are both NHL-ready, McDonagh and perhaos Emelin in the very near future, as well as some interesting wild-cards such as Paquet and Stejskal (this kid will suprise many... although maybe not in Montreal because of our depth).

Again, I absolutely love Mike Komisarek (he was my favourite Habs on my profile since I joined until I changed it to Pacioretty after his signed), and would love for him to sign long term with the team. Not only that, but I believe he has more to give us offensively, and that we should give him a chance on the power play this season. But then again, what if Komisarek could land us an equally great young offensive centre such as Carer, Getzlaf, Mueller, etc, ins't that something to at least consider?

[Gman]

Instead of spewing nonesense, you should try to understand my comments a little more. Why would Phily trade Carter? Because they are already over the Cap. They have guys ike Gagné, Brière, Timonnen and Richards who earn alot of money, and this cap situation they have will only get worse over the next few years.

Phily is a team that is DESPERATE for a solid defenseman, and the Habs are a team that is loaded with talented defensemen. If you trade Carter for 2 or 3 players who have a combined salary of 5 million$(which is what Carter makes) Phily doesn't improve its situation. They would still be over the cap.

by the way, Silly rabbit, Videogames are for Kids!

I'll ignore the fact that my comments made perfect sense, even if you disagreed with them, and ask you what defencemen would Montreal trade to get Carter?

You say that Philly is DESPERATE for a solid defenceman, and so I take that to mean they need an NHL-ready player. The only reason Philly is trading Carter is b/c they need to make room under the cap and thus, Markov and Hamrlik are out of the equation. That leaves Bouillon, Dandy, O'Byrne, Komi and Georges.

Komi makes $1.7M, loves Mtl and is developing into one of the best defenceman in the league, so I don't see Montreal even wanting to part with him. Of the remaining defencemen, none fit into a trade for Carter. If Philly is so DESPERATE for a defenceman, they are not going to trade a player of Carter's calibre and potential for a defenceman who is going to play in the fourth, fifth or sixth spot. Yes, O'Byrne and Georges are developing into reliable and solid NHL defencemen but they are no where worth the value of Carter.

Oh, and why is Philly so DESPERATE for a defenceman? Maybe I'm wrong but it doesn't look all that bad: Timmonen, Hatcher, Jones, Cobourn, Eminger, Vaananen and Kukkonen. While not the greatest defence in the league, it is no where close to being the worst. Probably middle of the road at worst. I'd take Timmonen and Cobourn on the Habs any day.

And another thing, according to nhlscap.com the Flyers are only $1.003M over the cap. So why do they need to shed $5M in salary by trading one of their best prospects to the conference rival Habs? Rhetorical question, don't worry.

This trade makes little to no sense and is EA NHL 2006 worthy at best. Thoughts?

[Wamsley01]

I never said we should... just that it could be an opportunity that Gainey - as a good manager - should at least think about at some point during the season with Komisarek becoming an unrestricted free agent. I agree that in the very short run, dealing away a core memebr of the team is risky, but on the longer run, the Habs might benefit from dealing a quality defenseman for a quality centre.

After all, we have great depth at the defense position and almost none at centre, our best prospects (Maxwell and Trotter) being question marks with some interesting upside, but no bonafide star potential. However we have a few young defensemen who could potentially replace Komisarek, starting with Ryan O'Byrne and Valentenko who are both NHL-ready, McDonagh and perhaos Emelin in the very near future, as well as some interesting wild-cards such as Paquet and Stejskal (this kid will suprise many... although maybe not in Montreal because of our depth).

Again, I absolutely love Mike Komisarek (he was my favourite Habs on my profile since I joined until I changed it to Pacioretty after his signed), and would love for him to sign long term with the team. Not only that, but I believe he has more to give us offensively, and that we should give him a chance on the power play this season. But then again, what if Komisarek could land us an equally great young offensive centre such as Carer, Getzlaf, Mueller, etc, ins't that something to at least consider?

I agree with you. You need to be a progressive thinker in the new NHL. The logic behind what you are saying

is flawless, the problem is seperating the logic from the emotion.

If you have faith in your system then this is the type of deal you need to make. It is ballsy and only brave GMs are willing

to make this type of move.

It is simple math. Markov + Komisarek + Hamrlik = 3

That leaves 3 spots left for O'Byrne, Valentenko, Emelin, McDonagh, Fischer, Subban, Carle, Weber.

You cannot operate in a manner of waiting for your players to develop before you make your decisions anymore.

They have become like stocks. With the depth of defensive talent in the system the Habs are going to lose 2-3 NHL calibre D

for most likely little return.

I am not saying the Habs should make the move, but with the burgeoning talent on this roster, get used to these type of ideas,

because Gainey is not going to just let all that talent just walk.

[Habsfan]

I'll ignore the fact that my comments made perfect sense, even if you disagreed with them, and ask you what defencemen would Montreal trade to get Carter?

You say that Philly is DESPERATE for a solid defenceman, and so I take that to mean they need an NHL-ready player. The only reason Philly is trading Carter is b/c they need to make room under the cap and thus, Markov and Hamrlik are out of the equation. That leaves Bouillon, Dandy, O'Byrne, Komi and Georges.

Komi makes $1.7M, loves Mtl and is developing into one of the best defenceman in the league, so I don't see Montreal even wanting to part with him. Of the remaining defencemen, none fit into a trade for Carter. If Philly is so DESPERATE for a defenceman, they are not going to trade a player of Carter's calibre and potential for a defenceman who is going to play in the fourth, fifth or sixth spot. Yes, O'Byrne and Georges are developing into reliable and solid NHL defencemen but they are no where worth the value of Carter.

Oh, and why is Philly so DESPERATE for a defenceman? Maybe I'm wrong but it doesn't look all that bad: Timmonen, Hatcher, Jones, Cobourn, Eminger, Vaananen and Kukkonen. While not the greatest defence in the league, it is no where close to being the worst. Probably middle of the road at worst. I'd take Timmonen and Cobourn on the Habs any day.

And another thing, according to nhlscap.com the Flyers are only $1.003M over the cap. So why do they need to shed $5M in salary by trading one of their best prospects to the conference rival Habs? Rhetorical question, don't worry.

This trade makes little to no sense and is EA NHL 2006 worthy at best. Thoughts?

For starters you could offer O'Byrne and Valetenko. Both are young. They are both affordable and both are NHL ready(had Valetenko been on almost any other team, he'd probably be in the NHL right now).

Phily's defense is in the bottom 3rd of the league, they need to improve that and they have soo many good young players up front, that they could let go of a talented player like Carter.

Well, according to NHL numbers.com, they are at least 4 million$ over the cap(61million$ payroll, when the cap is at 57 million$) so they need to shed at least 4 million$.

[Wamsley01]

For starters you could offer O'Byrne and Valetenko. Both are young. They are both affordable and both are NHL ready(had Valetenko been on almost any other team, he'd probably be in the NHL right now).

Phily's defense is in the bottom 3rd of the league, they need to improve that and they have soo many good young players up front, that they could let go of a talented player like Carter.

Well, according to NHL numbers.com, they are at least 4 million$ over the cap(61million$ payroll, when the cap is at 57 million$) so they need to shed at least 4 million$.

I don't understand why Philly would give up a blue chip prospect for anything less than a blue chipper back.

If they are over the cap they can dump a lot more players than a young kid who is getting better every game.

O'Byrne and Valentenko will return Carter no more than Ryan Parent and Michael Ratchuk would return A. Kostitsyn.

You don't draft and develop a blue chipper just to toss him away for cap implications

[habs rule]

I remember that we once traded def for offence. I recall we traded desjardins for mark rechi and we threw in john leclair cause he was not going to work out. That trade worked out so well that I don't think we should do it again. Komi stays period.