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52 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I actually don’t track this comment…Bergevin had many failings, but he was also one bold MF. 

Agree, but admitting Drouin's birthplace was a factor in Sergachev deal still bugs me the most (didnt like Briere signing one bit, right off the hop also, but not bold) and hope another deal like that those for language reasons dosent happen.

We might always disagree on the Subban trade; but that was a "bold" move for sure.

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2 hours ago, DON said:

Agree, but admitting Drouin's birthplace was a factor in Sergachev deal still bugs me the most (didnt like Briere signing one bit, right off the hop also, but not bold) and hope another deal like that those for language reasons dosent happen.

We might always disagree on the Subban trade; but that was a "bold" move for sure.

That was really the only bold move I can think of.

 

signing Taffoli, or Radulov we’re good moves, while Alzner and Briere, or the Drouin trade were bad moves. but I wouldn’t call them bold.

 

hiring Julien, Therrien, or his childhood buddy Lefebve certainly were not bold moves.

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I guess it depends on what one means by “bold.” He made quite a number of high-profile trades (Drouin, Subban, Vanek, Galy-Domi-Anderson, Pacioretty, Edmundson, Petry was a trade as well) and went all-in on a reconstituted roster in 2021 that led directly to the Finals. He was pretty active with UFAs as well.  I’m not sure how much more “active” folks expect their GM to be, really. 

 

Where you can legitimately argue that MB was uncreative and hidebound was in the organizational side of things. He hired his buddies, idiot Lefebvre and buffoon Therrien, and left them in place for far too long. When he finally fired Therrien it was to bring in the safe and conservative Julien. He ignored advanced stats. He also, admittedly, had this weird thing where he would allow major organizational holes (puck-moving D, backup G) to fester for years and years.

 

Nevertheless, he was not afraid of making a big move and made his share of them IMHO. 

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Bergevin was also a cheap negotiator. Aside from Sergachev for Drouin, he wanted everything for nothing.  This made from a couple great trades, like a 2nd for Petry and a 2nd for Vanek.  It also made for missing out on a lot because he wouldn’t give up anything.  How many trade deadlines was he linked to a big piece and nothing ever materialized, then when the trade was done, the return was more than affordable for Montreal, but we lost out?  I can’t think of the specific off the top of my head of these types of trades.
 

I didn’t add the Subban for Weber trade, because that was more about getting rid of Subban than it was acquiring Weber.

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2 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

signing Taffoli, or Radulov we’re good moves, while Alzner and Briere, or the Drouin trade were bad moves. but I wouldn’t call them bold.

 

Signing a guy who left the NHL on a bad note (for the second time) and went to the KHL for four years to a $5 million contract definitely qualifies as a bold move.  There were articles about that contract being one of the biggest risk-reward plays of that entire offseason.

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1 hour ago, TurdBurglar said:

Bergevin was also a cheap negotiator. Aside from Sergachev for Drouin, he wanted everything for nothing.  This made from a couple great trades, like a 2nd for Petry and a 2nd for Vanek.  It also made for missing out on a lot because he wouldn’t give up anything.  How many trade deadlines was he linked to a big piece and nothing ever materialized, then when the trade was done, the return was more than affordable for Montreal, but we lost out?  I can’t think of the specific off the top of my head of these types of trades.
 

I didn’t add the Subban for Weber trade, because that was more about getting rid of Subban than it was acquiring Weber.

I used to think he was a good negotiator, but when you see what he left - with Gally, Price, Hoffman, Petry, even Drouin, Savard - I’m not sure he doesn’t crack .500 (because he certainly did well on some other contracts)

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4 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

Signing a guy who left the NHL on a bad note (for the second time) and went to the KHL for four years to a $5 million contract definitely qualifies as a bold move.  There were articles about that contract being one of the biggest risk-reward plays of that entire offseason.

From what I remember, It wasn’t the only   offer Radulov had at the time, so it’s not like he was taking a one year flyer on someone others were also considering isn’t really bold. Bold would have been locking him up on a longer term deal.

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4 hours ago, revvvrob said:

I used to think he was a good negotiator, but when you see what he left - with Gally, Price, Hoffman, Petry, even Drouin, Savard - I’m not sure he doesn’t crack .500 (because he certainly did well on some other contracts)

You forgot got the Byron and Armia contracts.

 

His best contract deals were Maxpac, Taffoli, and the he original Petry deal. Otherwise he left a lot of boat anchors, and that’s not even considering the desperation signings he had ealrier in his tenure for washed up guys like Briere (can’t remember if he also signed Semin), or grunts like Prust, Ott, Murray and other fringe players.

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10 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

From what I remember, It wasn’t the only   offer Radulov had at the time, so it’s not like he was taking a one year flyer on someone others were also considering isn’t really bold. Bold would have been locking him up on a longer term deal.

 

Detroit had a lesser offer on the table.  I believe that was the only other NHL team in the mix for Radulov as most were staying away at all costs.

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So is everyone forgetting how MB botched re-signing Radulov?  MB offered Radulov contracts when he wasn’t ready to sign, then nothing until Dallas had an offer for him.

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12 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

You forgot got the Byron and Armia contracts.

 

His best contract deals were Maxpac, Taffoli, and the he original Petry deal. Otherwise he left a lot of boat anchors, and that’s not even considering the desperation signings he had ealrier in his tenure for washed up guys like Briere (can’t remember if he also signed Semin), or grunts like Prust, Ott, Murray and other fringe players.

 

I think that when you’re signing guys to what is effectively their UFA deals, you’re gonna pay. Fans fantasize about “hometown discounts” but that is mostly BS wishful thinking.

 

We can rag on the Price contract, for example, but there is not an organization in hockey that would have traded away Carey Price in his prime, let alone allow him to walk as a UFA. Any other franchise would have signed him to the same deal. When you are signing a league MVP, you pay. That’s all there is to it.

 

The real problem is with those mid-roster types, the Byrons and Armias. A strong organization would have young players coming up through the system, which would allow a franchise to let guys like that walk rather than overpay them. Because Bergevin was a disaster at drafting and development, he was in a position where he was always having to overpay those kinds of players. 

 

Gallagher’s contract is maybe the toughest case. Yes, the contract was obviously a boat anchor from the day it was signed. On the other hand, Gally would have been a very difficult player for any organization, except a rebuilding one, to walk away from. What bothered me was MB’s getting choked up at the press conference - suggesting that he really didn’t understand the risk in a player like that, because he was so in love with Gally being a “special player.”  

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4 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

So is everyone forgetting how MB botched re-signing 

No, why?

Glad he didnt overpay for Radulov; but, he did screw up royally by not having a plan 'B' for either Russian free agent if they walked.

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54 minutes ago, DON said:

No, why?

Glad he didnt overpay for Radulov; but, he did screw up royally by not having a plan 'B' for either Russian free agent if they walked.

 

Radulov went on to be a PPG player for the better part of his time after MTL until his injury. Everyone in Dallas pretty much sucked in 2019 in that off year. Whatever bump he wanted more than Dallas offered would have been worth it. MB did screw that up.

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57 minutes ago, mineral said:

 

Radulov went on to be a PPG player for the better part of his time after MTL until his injury. Everyone in Dallas pretty much sucked in 2019 in that off year. Whatever bump he wanted more than Dallas offered would have been worth it. MB did screw that up.

From Radulov’s statements, it seems as if the only contract offers he received from MB were mid-season and he didn’t want to negotiate mid-season.  This isn’t uncommon in the NHL, some players want to focus on hockey instead of contract during the season.  
 

I also do remember hearing MB didn’t offer anything else until after Dallas offered Radulov a contract, then matched that contract.  Which would indicate the previous contract were of lesser value.  What’s also not clear about the situation is if the previous in-season offers were still on the table or not.  Either way, Radulov rather sign somewhere else for the same contract when he said he wanted to stay, which indicates management was the reason he left.

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3 hours ago, mineral said:

 

Radulov went on to be a PPG player for the better part of his time after MTL until his injury. 

 

PPG, not quite.

And $6.25m/yr or $31m for 2 good years, Habs would of had to offer more to match no tax Texas.

image.png

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22 minutes ago, DON said:

 

PPG, not quite.

And $6.25m/yr or $31m for 2 good years, Habs would of had to offer more to match no tax Texas.

image.png

I would call that 3 good years, a good year ruined by injury and a bad year.  I see nothing wrong with that production on that contract.  Contracts considered to be acceptable, in retrospect look far worse than that one.  He had 0.72PPG on that contract, 0.85 PPG removing the last year.  I'm not sure why you would call it just 2 good years.

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3 hours ago, TurdBurglar said:

From Radulov’s statements, it seems as if the only contract offers he received from MB were mid-season and he didn’t want to negotiate mid-season.  This isn’t uncommon in the NHL, some players want to focus on hockey instead of contract during the season. 

 

The asking price from Radulov during the season was borderline insane (believed to be $7.5M x 7).  Montreal and Dallas had the same offer in the end but Radulov opted to take the better take-home pay as he's someone that has chased the money throughout his career.  (And that's fine, Montreal knew that and opted not to up their offer.)

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1 hour ago, TurdBurglar said:

I would call that 3 good years, a good year ruined by injury and a bad year.  I see nothing wrong with that production on that contract.  Contracts considered to be acceptable, in retrospect look far worse than that one.  He had 0.72PPG on that contract, 0.85 PPG removing the last year.  I'm not sure why you would call it just 2 good years.

68 points in the last 3 of years his contract is not great value. Yes he was sorely missed and in 2017-19 would of been great to of had, just would of been costly, thats all. 

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On 8/19/2022 at 4:15 PM, hab29RETIRED said:

That was really the only bold move I can think of.

 

signing Taffoli, or Radulov we’re good moves, while Alzner and Briere, or the Drouin trade were bad moves. but I wouldn’t call them bold.

 

hiring Julien, Therrien, or his childhood buddy Lefebve certainly were not bold moves.

 

How do you still misspell Toffoli?

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2 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

How do you still misspell Toffoli?

Easy😁

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22 minutes ago, DON said:

Another fugly 3rd jersey happening this year? Molson needs to offset Price's semi-retirement salary i suppose.

 

https://dailyhive.com/montreal/jersey-spoiler-canadiens-expos

 

As an Expos fan I would be OK with something like this concept art

image.png

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