Carolina @ Montreal GDT: March 31st, 2010

[Wamsley01]

Both goalies have seen that crap.. This myth that Price has been fantastic in every game but the team has let him down is just nonsense. This team has played like crap for both of them, and played great for both of them.

If this team comes out and plays like they are in a drive for the playoffs, both our goalies can get them a win. If they don't show up, then it is up to the goalie to get them a win, which is not something you want to rely on

Early in the season, Price was very inconsistent which is why he lost the number one job. Since the break, he has been much better and I see no issue. We have two goalies playing well. The problem now is that the rest of the team is playing very inconsistently..

Really? Maybe you should look at the numbers.

Price has played 24 games in which the Canadiens scored 2 goals or less.

In those 24 games Price has a .918 SV% and is 3-19-2 in those games.

Halak has played 14 games in which the Canadiens scored 2 goals or less.

In those 14 games Halak has a .898 SV% and is 2-10-2 in those games.

So have both goalies equally seen "that crap"? What would Halak's record be if he had faced 10

extra games of that goal support? I guess it wouldn't affect their win totals at all.

Halak's record with 3 or more goals of support? 22-2-1

Price's record with 3 or more goals of support? 10-1-3

"Same crap"? Halak's goal support is 3.09 goals per game.

Price's goal support? 2.39 goals per game.

So on average Halak gets 3 goals a game, a support level that has both goalies at a +.800 winning percentage.

This has ZERO correlation to his win totals, right?

Once again, NOT the "same crap".

Price has played a tougher schedule. It is reality. Take a look at the schedule.

I have crunched the numbers, feel free to take the time to do it yourself.

I guess facing the Capitals 4 times is not more difficult than facing the Panthers 4 times?

Seeing as league wide goaltenders have a .883 SV% against the Caps and .912 against the Panthers

that it has ZERO impact. I guess 3 games against the Leafs and their .921 SV% has zero effect?

The strongest team Halak has faced is the Devils, the high scoring Devils who come in a .913.

Put your head in the sand, it is ignorant to dismiss those numbers. What would Price's record be if his goal support

was at the same level as Halak? What would Halak's be in reverse?

That is why the comment was made, that is why I agreed. Games like tonight have happened to him all season. Strange goals,

lack of offensive support etc. Halak, as much as you would like to submit that he has had the same problems, is poorly researched

and disingenuous, he hasn't.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Wamsley01

[Wamsley01]

I'm getting the feeling the Habs D dont like Price. Every time Price starts, there's always one or two goals that only get in because it deflects off a Habs D or something. Tonight it was Hamrlik.

It is poor luck, these goals will not happen next season.

[Seb]

It is poor luck, these goals will not happen next season.

It blows my mind when I think about how many goals go in on Price off skates, defensemen, lucky bounces, etc.

If Price's luck is even neutral next season (as opposed to very bad this season), we'll all be blown away by what he can do.

I just hope he doesn't get run out of town and loses confidence in himself before he gets that chance. He's getting tougher mentally with every game, and that's a good thing. Not to mention it's the time to do it, with a more than capable replacement who'll balloon his market value and be dealt in the off-season.

Price is an unbelievable goalie. Wamsley can support it with statistics (and as an engineer, I very much appreciate, btw), and everyone at home can be convinced of it if they just watched him play. Ignore the stats, and just watch. It's unbelievable.

[KoZed]

It is poor luck, these goals will not happen next season.

[enter worn-out sport cliché about making your own luck and etc.]

Bad luck is part of it, but poor communication can also factor in. Put aside the bad-luck-goals and look at the way Price handles the puck. The Habs D never seem to know what Price will do and Price never seems to know who he's supposed to pass to because the D's are never in position. Now come back to the bad-luck-goals: goalies and d-men needs to talk all game long, all season long to be clear what they need to do in X or Y situation. For example, I remember Roy would kill any teammate who'd screen him on shots from far out, so the players learned that if a shot was coming and they couldnt get to the shooter in time, they had to get out of the way or dive. Every goalie has his own quirks and preferences, and it's up to the d-men to adapt but the need for communication is crucial. Seems like from the beginning of the season Price and the D's have never been on the same page.

[sakiqc]

Anyone noticed Hal Gill tonight? One of maybe the best game I recall seeing him play with the Habs. Besides his solid hit, he made a few good plays defensively and pinched in the offensive zone at an appropriate time to keep the pressure. If the Pens were using him a lot in the playoffs last year (we all remember him being on the final shift to secure the Cup win), let's just hope it's good sign for the Habs and that we have a dman that elevates his play when the time is crucial.

[Chris]

Funny how it's back to goaltending and defense. They have SCORED 2 goals or less in the last 6 games and lost 5 of them. 2 empty netters against Florida and that's it. You aren't making the playoffs playing like that.

They still have to go 3-2 to get a playoff spot, unfortunately i don't see it happeneing, Atlanta or the Rangers will pass them and it will be the biggest down the stretch choke in a very long time.

What is with all the figure skating moves in the offensive zone? You are suppose to go to the net, not gain the line, spinnorama back towards the blueline and turn it over. The Canes second goal is a perfect example of going to the net. The habs D just watching the puck and leaving someone wide open next to Price.

As much flack as Spacek gets,

Hamrlik seems to get a free ride, he has been brutal at times all year. Whoever made the point about the right side D being slow and can't move the puck, What do you think of Gill and Hamrlik, they are VERY SLOW and don't handle the puck well. Only Markov does.

Unless the Rags or Atlants crap out, the habs aren't going to make it. You heard it here first.

[Toronthab]

Bah on the poor Price.. he played fine and the team came out hot, they just didn't win. People shouldn't judge goalies on wins and losses, those are team stats. Even more, there are two teams in every contest. Sometimes the other team sucks and you get an easy win. That doesn't make you Patrick Roy anymore then losing 2-1 on a night your team can't score makes you red light racicot. Price will be fine, he knows he did well.

This is a classic case of running into a hot goalie and a team out of the playoffs. The boys are gripping the sticks way too tight, but if not for Ward they would have had several goals early and the Canes would have packed it in for the night. Instead, they came out in the third realizing that Ward gave them a chance to steal. We have won plenty of games the same way.

True. It doesn't leave us with a victim to dump our unhappiness on, but it's true. We came out on fire but weren't reWarded. And they probably were feeling the pressure way too much in the third understandably.

They were amazing early on.

GO HABS GO ....PLEEEZE!

Habs fans in TO, can hardly afford to miss the dance.

[bar]

Funny how it's back to goaltending and defense. They have SCORED 2 goals or less in the last 6 games and lost 5 of them. 2 empty netters against Florida and that's it. You aren't making the playoffs playing like that.

They still have to go 3-2 to get a playoff spot, unfortunately i don't see it happeneing, Atlanta or the Rangers will pass them and it will be the biggest down the stretch choke in a very long time.

What is with all the figure skating moves in the offensive zone? You are suppose to go to the net, not gain the line, spinnorama back towards the blueline and turn it over. The Canes second goal is a perfect example of going to the net. The habs D just watching the puck and leaving someone wide open next to Price.

As much flack as Spacek gets,

Hamrlik seems to get a free ride, he has been brutal at times all year. Whoever made the point about the right side D being slow and can't move the puck, What do you think of Gill and Hamrlik, they are VERY SLOW and don't handle the puck well. Only Markov does.

Unless the Rags or Atlants crap out, the habs aren't going to make it. You heard it here first.

If Atlanta passes the habs they deserve the playoffs:

x2 Caps

x1 Pens

x1 New Jersey

[Chris]

They need 3 points to pass the habs.

Unfortunately for the Habs they play to the level of there opponant. I'm not even sure they can beat the Islanders the way they are currently playing.

[bar]

I took a tour of a few sites today, TSN.ca, Gazette, etc, and I was sickened by what I heard from uneducated, lackluster fans. Habs fans claim we are the greatest fans in the world, I am starting to doubt that greatly. The problem is the habs have no one to hate, they have no one to hold accountable. They NEED a captain, this wouldn't be an issue, if there was a strong willed coach, but JM, is a flower wilting under the pressure in Montreal, his interviews offer nothing.

A captain would shelter the very YOUNG goaltending tandem we have, you know the 24 and 22 year old goalies we have. A captain would speak up to media, call themselves out for not defending, for not scoring, for letting THEIR goalies down. The captain would make sure the media furor was on them not misplaced on the goaltending.

You think the goalies have faith in their team right now? It took Markov to come to Prices aid last night when he was getting dog piled, which was STAAL from the Canes. That is what Laps use to do, getting rid of a player like Kostpoulous was a mistake, they use to do that stuff all the time. How many times did Tom get punched in the face last year when trying to cause trouble? The habs are not a hard team to play against, so the goalies suffer. You don't have to be a tough team to play against to succeed, you can be that run and gun, fire wagon hockey that is so exciting. The caps play that, the habs did a few years back. The negative side is that you give up lots of scoring opportunities, but hello, they do that anyway in JMs system, so why not stretch the ice and win 5-4 than lose 3-2.

The TLDR version: Habs fans, place blame on the right people, stop being asshats. Get a captain, firewagon hockey.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Wow, this loss is a real disaster. :puke:

Still, it's been a Jeckyl and Hyde kinda season - we ought to have seen this tailspin coming after that great post-Olympic surge.

I believe in our core of veterans and I believe that this team will make the playoffs, but it's going to be much more a white-knuckle nightmare than it really should have been. Oy vey.

[ehjay]

I took a tour of a few sites today, TSN.ca, Gazette, etc, and I was sickened by what I heard from uneducated, lackluster fans. Habs fans claim we are the greatest fans in the world, I am starting to doubt that greatly. The problem is the habs have no one to hate, they have no one to hold accountable. They NEED a captain, this wouldn't be an issue, if there was a strong willed coach, but JM, is a flower wilting under the pressure in Montreal, his interviews offer nothing.

A captain would shelter the very YOUNG goaltending tandem we have, you know the 24 and 22 year old goalies we have. A captain would speak up to media, call themselves out for not defending, for not scoring, for letting THEIR goalies down. The captain would make sure the media furor was on them not misplaced on the goaltending.

You think the goalies have faith in their team right now? It took Markov to come to Prices aid last night when he was getting dog piled, which was STAAL from the Canes. That is what Laps use to do, getting rid of a player like Kostpoulous was a mistake, they use to do that stuff all the time. How many times did Tom get punched in the face last year when trying to cause trouble? The habs are not a hard team to play against, so the goalies suffer. You don't have to be a tough team to play against to succeed, you can be that run and gun, fire wagon hockey that is so exciting. The caps play that, the habs did a few years back. The negative side is that you give up lots of scoring opportunities, but hello, they do that anyway in JMs system, so why not stretch the ice and win 5-4 than lose 3-2.

The TLDR version: Habs fans, place blame on the right people, stop being asshats. Get a captain, firewagon hockey.

You have some very valid points.

I think it's high time there is a Captain for this ship.

I will not cave and say it is sin***g yet the helm needs a pilot to weather this mega storm.

I just hope the C does not become a contract neg point to re-sign whoever

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Really? Maybe you should look at the numbers.

Price has played 24 games in which the Canadiens scored 2 goals or less.

In those 24 games Price has a .918 SV% and is 3-19-2 in those games.

Halak has played 14 games in which the Canadiens scored 2 goals or less.

In those 14 games Halak has a .898 SV% and is 2-10-2 in those games.

So have both goalies equally seen "that crap"? What would Halak's record be if he had faced 10

extra games of that goal support? I guess it wouldn't affect their win totals at all.

Halak's record with 3 or more goals of support? 22-2-1

Price's record with 3 or more goals of support? 10-1-3

"Same crap"? Halak's goal support is 3.09 goals per game.

Price's goal support? 2.39 goals per game.

So on average Halak gets 3 goals a game, a support level that has both goalies at a +.800 winning percentage.

This has ZERO correlation to his win totals, right?

Once again, NOT the "same crap".

Price has played a tougher schedule. It is reality. Take a look at the schedule.

I have crunched the numbers, feel free to take the time to do it yourself.

I guess facing the Capitals 4 times is not more difficult than facing the Panthers 4 times?

Seeing as league wide goaltenders have a .883 SV% against the Caps and .912 against the Panthers

that it has ZERO impact. I guess 3 games against the Leafs and their .921 SV% has zero effect?

The strongest team Halak has faced is the Devils, the high scoring Devils who come in a .913.

Put your head in the sand, it is ignorant to dismiss those numbers. What would Price's record be if his goal support

was at the same level as Halak? What would Halak's be in reverse?

That is why the comment was made, that is why I agreed. Games like tonight have happened to him all season. Strange goals,

lack of offensive support etc. Halak, as much as you would like to submit that he has had the same problems, is poorly researched

and disingenuous, he hasn't.

Well, matchups aside, there may be something to the idea that the Habs feel better with Halak in net and consequently play with more confidence, leading to more goals scored. It may be as simple as Halak tending to make the big save at the right moment and Price not doing so, a factor that numbers can't address. The intangibles do count; and I do think that *something* intangible is wrong vis-a-vis Mr. Price - I don't know if it's his attitude, or his puckhandling, or what it is, but he just seems to have this dark cloud over him this season and I don't sense a great vibe of the team wanting to rally behind him and support him. But that's all ultimately speculation - your post, Wamsley, is outstanding as usual, and a necessary corrective to the crude Price-blaming proliferating out there

I will be amazed if Price is still a habs in 2-3 years. I've seen this kind of movie too many times in Montreal to be optimistic about that.

Edited April 1, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[saskhab]

What a sad display. I'm sick of this team.

CC, you may still believe in these veterans, but I sure as hell don't. What's to believe in? That they'll finish with the lowest point total of a playoff team since the 2001-02 Habs (who didn't have the shootout padding that total)? This is the worst Habs team since 2002-03, and they were truly awful. It's time to just accept that these guys aren't anywhere near good. The NHL should really put the 9th, 10th and 11th place teams in the West and substitute them for the 6th to 8th seeds in the East just to let the top 16 teams be in the playoffs.

How is it that a team that spends next to nothing on goaltending has a team that's main strength is it's goaltending? This is not a good team at all, and it won't be getting better in the near future. It's a fundamentally flawed group. For God's sake, this team's PP is completely dependant on absolutely terrible 5 on 5 players like Marc-Andre Bergeron and freaking Glen Metropolit.

The sad thing is this team isn't even that fast as a group. The one thing they have and they can't utilize it.

[MK1]

If Atlanta passes the habs they deserve the playoffs:

x2 Caps

x1 Pens

x1 New Jersey

I agree that the habs will get into the playoffs, but only because ATL has such a brutal schedule and NYR usually find a way to shoot themselves in the foot down the stretch.

But this may be the most uninspiring playoff race I have ever seen, barely worth celebrating if you ask me, since it has come down to who can lose just enough times to squeek in rather than who can earn their way in. Pretty sad.

PS - the habs fans (if you call them that) booing Price last night was just pathetic, they don't even do that in TOR anymore now that MacCabe is gone, so congrats to that ....

[Habsfan]

Funny how it's back to goaltending and defense. They have SCORED 2 goals or less in the last 6 games and lost 5 of them. 2 empty netters against Florida and that's it. You aren't making the playoffs playing like that.

Agreed. Let's not forget that if you dont count the 2 empty net goals scored over those 6 games, the Habs have scored 9 goals in 6 games...for a grand total of 1.5 goals per game.

How could we even be discussing about goalies?!

Carey was not to blame for this loss! The rest of the team is!

PS - the habs fans (if you call them that) booing Price last night was just pathetic, they don't even do that in TOR anymore now that MacCabe is gone, so congrats to that ....

Yeah, that was pathetic. I admit i'm more of a Halak fan, but I have to admit that Price has been doing well lately. He seems to have matured a little compared to last year, and is doing the little things that a mature goalie does.(going over to thank Spacek after He blocked a shot last night)

Fans in this city have gone beyond loving their team, it is now an obsession and a mean spirited aatitude towards the team.

I also admit that I get pissed off at my team...especially when I'm watching a game and I see stupid mistakes by veteran players, or a lack of effort by some players, but I don't boo them when I'm at the Bell Centre. It just doesn't help.

We have too many moronic fans in this town!

Edited April 1, 2010 by Habsfan

[kenadian]

Sad really, they looked like a team going through the motions waiting for the season to play out (not a team fighting to get into the playoffs!)

Guess it'll be "next year" for the Habs................

[Dalhabs]

Sad really, they looked like a team going through the motions waiting for the season to play out (not a team fighting to get into the playoffs!)

Guess it'll be "next year" for the Habs................

Next year without Plekanec and most likely without Halak and STILL with Hamrlik and Spacek for a total of over 9M/year. Go Gainey Go... and dont come back unless its for some ceremonial stuff.

[illWill]

It's times like these that make me sick as a Habs fan. So disgusting to see "fans" boo Price who came out as the third star of the game. I could see if he stunk the place up, but HE WAS THIRD STAR! I guess there are people who are against Price and just want to boo him out of town. I think this is a big mistake. He has had a good year, despite his numbers and anyone who has watched everygame can tell you. We win as a team and we lose as a team, goaltending is the least of our concerns.

[Easy Ryder]

Sad really, they looked like a team going through the motions waiting for the season to play out (not a team fighting to get into the playoffs!)

Guess it'll be "next year" for the Habs................

It's sad and it ain't gonna be better next year. So it's playoff or burst even if it's for 4 games.

They are still in the run and it's the habs they bounce back when you don't expect them to.

Next game against Philly they will have no excuse not to score they have no goalie, so there no maple leaf summer yet.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

This sucks. Friday is a must. Get some points FFS!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

saskhab, what I believe in are the talent and leadership qualities of Cup champions Gomez, Gionta, Gill, and Moen; the talent and character of Markov, Hamrlik, Cammalleri and Plekanec; the veteran grit of guys like Moore, Gorges, and Spacek; and the clutch goaltending of Halak. And I don't think you can just look at our points totals and declare this the worst Habs team since 2002, not when you consider the devastation that injuries wreaked upon this group AND the drawn-out process of creating team chemistry on a club that had been radically reconstructed in the summer. This season was always destined to be a crazy ride no matter what happened.

I understand that everyone is pessimistic right now, and justifiably so. Nonetheless we have a good nucleus and I honestly believe these guys have shown again and again that they can bounce back strongly from bad luck and poor play. It would be totally consistent with the patterns of this season for us to hang in there and make it - but totally incosistent with the patterns of this season for that to come easily. Therefore, I retain my basic faith in this group.

[saskhab]

The 2001-02 Habs had no Koivu or Audette for about 150 games combined. Rivet missed a big chunk of time, too. They hung in there and didn't need no fancy shootout points to hit 87 and clinch 8th. The 2002-03 Habs had no Souray all year.

This team right now is better than the one last year only in the sense that they're fairly healthy. The one last year, if you remember, also rattled off a bunch of wins before injuries hit in the final week and they barely squeaked in.

Brian Gionta's one goal in 24 games for the 2003 Stanley Cup run seem to have given him quite the inflated status as a past playoff performer. Gomez had 10 points in 23 games in 2000, 14 points in 25 games in 2001 (lost in Game 7), and 12 points in 24 games in 2003. Just because they were lucky enough to be on a really good team when they broke into the league doesn't mean they can lead a mediocre one to lofty heights. It'd be like taking Pierre Mondou and Mario Tremblay in 1985 and expect them to lead the Jets against the Oilers and Flames.

[KoZed]

saskhab, what I believe in are the talent and leadership qualities of Cup champions Gomez, Gionta, Gill, and Moen; the talent and character of Markov, Hamrlik, Cammalleri and Plekanec; the veteran grit of guys like Moore, Gorges, and Spacek; and the clutch goaltending of Halak. And I don't think you can just look at our points totals and declare this the worst Habs team since 2002, not when you consider the devastation that injuries wreaked upon this group AND the drawn-out process of creating team chemistry on a club that had been radically reconstructed in the summer. This season was always destined to be a crazy ride no matter what happened.

Meh. The injury/chemistry excuse only goes so far. This team is fully healthy and we're 77 games into the season, so those excuses dont fly. Especially when they played their best hockey after the Olympics with a bunch of call-ups and fillers. Actually, this team started playing better when Cammy got hurt and has stunk since he came back. Weird coincidence, eh?

Anyway, last night they got burn because they came out in the 3rd playing for the OT point. It's been the same problem all season long: they're flatter than ever when the opportunity calls for extra emotion.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Meh. The injury/chemistry excuse only goes so far. This team is fully healthy and we're 77 games into the season, so those excuses dont fly. Especially when they played their best hockey after the Olympics with a bunch of call-ups and fillers. Actually, this team started playing better when Cammy got hurt and has stunk since he came back. Weird coincidence, eh?

Anyway, last night they got burn because they came out in the 3rd playing for the OT point. It's been the same problem all season long: they're flatter than ever when the opportunity calls for extra emotion.

Yeah, well, I'm not saying these guys are the second coming or anything. Nor was I trying to use injuries/chemistry as an excuse for the recent slump specifically. It's more that, on the whole, I just don't see them being worthless pieces of crap; and I was trying to explain my specific belief that they'll make the playoffs. But there's no question, they need to get their sh*t together double-quick (The Cammy thing may actually be part of the problem - teams do often suffer letdowns when a major injured player returns. But this is certainly bad timing for it to happen).

As for Gomez and Gionta being overrated, what can I say? They were first line players on the Cup winning Devils...seems like some cred is for that little achievement due. But just to be clear: I wasn't saying they're superstars. I was saying they're quality veterans with Cup rings to whom I give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to getting this team into the dance. In short, on balance, I believe that these guys are good players and can be a good team. But certainly the inconsistency is maddening.

Edited April 1, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber