Habs Offseason Moves

[BCHabnut]

Lapierre was one of our best players in the playoffs. He is clearly the one who stepped up his game the most (except Halak and maybe Gill).

Gill, Gorges, Halak, Cammie, Lapierre were the best players in the playoffs for the Habs. Laps was awesome!

[dlbalr]

More news of the not thread worthy variety, Lars Eller will wear #60 this season with the Habs.

[Dalhabs]

More news of the not thread worthy variety, Lars Eller will wear #60 this season with the Habs.

OMGOMGOMG That be Theo's number.

j/k

[dlbalr]

Press conference/scrum at 3 PM EST, could this be the end of the offseason moves?

[TheDriveFor25]

Halak signs 4 years for 15mil.

Not even 4 a year... wow.

Nice signing by the Blues!

[BTH]

Halak signs 4 years for 15mil.

Not even 4 a year... wow.

Nice signing by the Blues!

Good signing for the Blues (and Halak) and remember that it would have costed Montreal more to retain him. Partly because Gauthier and Walsh are pissed at each other and partly because of taxes. Apparently, in order for Montreal to have paid Halak what he'll be making with the Blues, his cap hit would have to be roughly 5M. Montreal is really at a huge disadvantage when signing UFA....

Edited July 6, 2010 by BTH

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Good signing for the Blues (and Halak) and remember that it would have costed Montreal more to retain him. Partly because Gauthier and Walsh are pissed at each other and partly because of taxes. Apparently, in order for Montreal to have paid Halak what he'll be making with the Blues, his cap hit would have to be roughly 5M. Montreal is really at a huge disadvantage when signing UFA....

If you ask me, taxes should be exempt from the cap hit. Why should teams suffer because of their jurisdiction's tax policy? Such an exemption would one of those sensible policies - like legalizing drugs, or charging violators a per centage of their income rather than a flat penalty for traffic violations - that will never happen, alas.

More generally, those who condemn Montreal for 'overpaying' on contracts do need to consider the tax hit. Indeed, taxes factored in, even Scott Gomez is not nearly as overpaid as he appears to be...I don't know the exact numbers, but if you're right that Halak would pay an extra million in taxes, say 1.5 for Gomez - that drops his tax-adjusted salary down to 5.5, something like that. Scary to contemplate. But this could also account for Gainey's willingness to take on that contract. He may have simple shrugged and said, 'well, in THIS tax jurisdiction, that's what we'd have had to pay Gomez anyway.'

Edited July 6, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[nhfarber]

PG just confirmed that the team has informed Moore, Metro, MAB and Mara that they will not be receiving contract offers from the team as they were no longer in the plans for next season.

[lazy26]

Gauthier confirms that Moore, Metropolit, Bergeron and Mara won't be re-signed by Montreal this year.

http://www.habsinsideout.com/main/36529

[saskhab]

Gauthier confirms that Moore, Metropolit, Bergeron and Mara won't be re-signed by Montreal this year.

http://www.habsinsideout.com/main/36529

Wait a sec, is Gauthier saying that Paul Mara played for the Habs?

[BTH]

If you ask me, taxes should be exempt from the cap hit. Why should teams suffer because of their jurisdiction's tax policy? Such an exemption would one of those sensible policies - like legalizing drugs, or charging violators a per centage of their income rather than a flat penalty for traffic violations - that will never happen, alas.

More generally, those who condemn Montreal for 'overpaying' on contracts do need to consider the tax hit. Indeed, taxes factored in, even Scott Gomez is not nearly as overpaid as he appears to be...I don't know the exact numbers, but if you're right that Halak would pay an extra million in taxes, say 1.5 for Gomez - that drops his tax-adjusted salary down to 5.5, something like that. Scary to contemplate. But this could also account for Gainey's willingness to take on that contract. He may have simple shrugged and said, 'well, in THIS tax jurisdiction, that's what we'd have had to pay Gomez anyway.'

Well, what I've read is that taxes in Quebec are 53% and that in St Louis they are 41%. I don't know if 41% is average or not for NHL team cities but that 12% becomes really significant when you realize that every UFA you sign is going to have to sign for that extra 12% (or take a 12% discount to sign with you).

Edited July 6, 2010 by BTH

[TruthMonger]

If you ask me, taxes should be exempt from the cap hit. Why should teams suffer because of their jurisdiction's tax policy? Such an exemption would one of those sensible policies - like legalizing drugs, or charging violators a per centage of their income rather than a flat penalty for traffic violations - that will never happen, alas.

More generally, those who condemn Montreal for 'overpaying' on contracts do need to consider the tax hit. Indeed, taxes factored in, even Scott Gomez is not nearly as overpaid as he appears to be...I don't know the exact numbers, but if you're right that Halak would pay an extra million in taxes, say 1.5 for Gomez - that drops his tax-adjusted salary down to 5.5, something like that. Scary to contemplate. But this could also account for Gainey's willingness to take on that contract. He may have simple shrugged and said, 'well, in THIS tax jurisdiction, that's what we'd have had to pay Gomez anyway.'

I've always wondered about the comparative tax rates, but never really checked. So I did now.

The US tax rate on high income earners is 35% -(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#Year_2010_income_brackets_and_tax_rates)

The Missouri income tax rate is 6% (http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_statetaxrate_MO.html)

For Quebec, the combined federal & provincial tax rates net of federal tax abatement (not sure if there's an abatement in the US) is 48.22% - (http://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/qc.htm)

So, my understanding would be that in Montreal you're paying 48.22% , while in St.Louis it would be 41%. That would come out to about a $500,000 difference on Gomez' salary and half that for Halak. Still pretty substantial, but not as bad as it's sometimes made out to be.

That doesn't factor in anything else like sales or property tax, cost of living, or a thousand other variables. So it could still swing pretty far in either direction...

[huzer]

With Metro, Moore, and Mara gone, can Markov, Moen, and Maxwell be far behind?

[dlbalr]

With Metro, Moore, and Mara gone, can Markov, Moen, and Maxwell be far behind?

What about Masse and Mayer? (Boy we have/had a lot of 'M' players...)

[lazy26]

What about Masse and Mayer? (Boy we have/had a lot of 'M' players...)

This follows last year's K purge. Logically, O or P could be next.

[kaos]

Habs will also not sign David Fisher who they selected in the 1st round in 2006. They will receive a compensatory pick in 2011 whcih should be the 50th overall pick.

as a note of interest, Claude Giroux was picked two spots later by Philly.

[Wamsley01]

Habs will also not sign David Fisher who they selected in the 1st round in 2006. They will receive a compensatory pick in 2011 whcih should be the 50th overall pick.

as a note of interest, Claude Giroux was picked two spots later by Philly.

And Halak was drafted 258 spots after Hugh Jessiman. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

For every Claude Giroux they miss, they turn the 271st player into a 1st and 3rd rounder.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Wamsley01

[CoRvInA]

Habs will also not sign David Fisher who they selected in the 1st round in 2006. They will receive a compensatory pick in 2011 whcih should be the 50th overall pick.

as a note of interest, Claude Giroux was picked two spots later by Philly.

what?!??! source? or is it in another thread?

I stress again like I have for years.... the habs either had no shrink (read psychiatrist psychologist) team 4-5 years ago or the scouting team didn't listen to them hence... we get kids who don't know what they wanna do when they grow up.

[bar]

I don't want to make excuses for him, but Fischer had a nasty bought of illness in his second year, one of those "it takes a year to fully recover from".

[JoeLassister]

I've always wondered about the comparative tax rates, but never really checked. So I did now.

The US tax rate on high income earners is 35% -(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#Year_2010_income_brackets_and_tax_rates)

The Missouri income tax rate is 6% (http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_statetaxrate_MO.html)

For Quebec, the combined federal & provincial tax rates net of federal tax abatement (not sure if there's an abatement in the US) is 48.22% - (http://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/qc.htm)

So, my understanding would be that in Montreal you're paying 48.22% , while in St.Louis it would be 41%. That would come out to about a $500,000 difference on Gomez' salary and half that for Halak. Still pretty substantial, but not as bad as it's sometimes made out to be.

That doesn't factor in anything else like sales or property tax, cost of living, or a thousand other variables. So it could still swing pretty far in either direction...

Good post Sir. Thanks.

[dlbalr]

what?!??! source? or is it in another thread?

I stress again like I have for years.... the habs either had no shrink (read psychiatrist psychologist) team 4-5 years ago or the scouting team didn't listen to them hence... we get kids who don't know what they wanna do when they grow up.

This is not new news, I reported this 3 weeks ago...and it wasn't really new news then either. http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=2078

[ForumGhost]

That sucks.

As for the other guys, Moore was the only guy I would have liked to see back, but not a major loss. I'm still hoping that Habs can get in on Frolov. The only reason why I think we have a good chance is because for once, we are not in a position where we are expected to do anything. Considering we often don't do things when are expected to, logically, it makes sense that we will do something now!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

That sucks.

As for the other guys, Moore was the only guy I would have liked to see back, but not a major loss. I'm still hoping that Habs can get in on Frolov. The only reason why I think we have a good chance is because for once, we are not in a position where we are expected to do anything. Considering we often don't do things when are expected to, logically, it makes sense that we will do something now!

It makes sense to get Frolov because we are still lacking a top-6 forward (this assessment includes Kostitsyn as a top-6 forward, a debatable assumption 2/3 of the time). Whether the cap numbers work is another question, but it's notable that the guys Gauthier is not re-signing seem to be significantly more expensive than the Ellers and Boyds will be.

EDIT: Capgeek has the Habs with 5.6 mil to sign Price and Lapierre. OK, scratch Frolov, barring a trade.

Edited July 6, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[BCHabnut]

So, the offseason moves are done. Meh... We'll see, I guess.

[Zowpeb]

I've always wondered about the comparative tax rates, but never really checked. So I did now.

The US tax rate on high income earners is 35% -(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#Year_2010_income_brackets_and_tax_rates)

The Missouri income tax rate is 6% (http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_statetaxrate_MO.html)

For Quebec, the combined federal & provincial tax rates net of federal tax abatement (not sure if there's an abatement in the US) is 48.22% - (http://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/qc.htm)

So, my understanding would be that in Montreal you're paying 48.22% , while in St.Louis it would be 41%. That would come out to about a $500,000 difference on Gomez' salary and half that for Halak. Still pretty substantial, but not as bad as it's sometimes made out to be.

That doesn't factor in anything else like sales or property tax, cost of living, or a thousand other variables. So it could still swing pretty far in either direction...

Only thing I would say is that it wouldn't swing pretty far in EITHER direction...those other potential tax/cost variables are all pretty much worse in Montreal. Housing is more in Montreal. Property taxes are, I'm sure, worse. Less available tax credits and income deductions in Canada. A player can buy a million dollar home and write off the interest on the mortgage against their income...a good accountant in the US would make mince meat out of anything a player in Canada can make dollar for dollar salary wise. Players in Calgary and Edmonton are probably equal to players from many US states overall...worse against many others. Players in Quebec are paying the highest taxes. In fact, Quebecers in general pay a stupid amount of taxes relative to the rest of the country...and, in reality, they get very little to show for it.