bbp Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Yes, i agree. They need to address the C or take an nhl ready dman. I heard there may only be 2 of those. Based on some posters and articles it looks like the habs like Galy better Grigerenko. Which doesn't really matter to me. To me the question is are either one of those nhl ready? If they are, then either DD or pleks need to be moved. They need top end talent period. People were saying RNH wasn't ready at the start of this year... yeah... they were sure right? :/ I don't think we can judge if a player isn't ready till they are in training camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 I think it's time to address the "C" position. Especially if both players are close in terms of talent. Both are centres. Yakupov is the winger, but to me if you get a chance at Yakupov you take him because he's head and shoulders ahead of both centres. He's the best player available no question in my mind. The other guys are very good prospects, but Yakupov is a special talent you can't pass up even if he's a wing not a centre. Guys number 2 and 3 are Grigorenko and Galchenyuk... both centres, both very close IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Yes, i agree. They need to address the C or take an nhl ready dman. I heard there may only be 2 of those. Based on some posters and articles it looks like the habs like Galy better Grigerenko. Which doesn't really matter to me. To me the question is are either one of those nhl ready? If they are, then either DD or pleks need to be moved. They need top end talent period. The D in the pipeline is already loaded. Yes we need two NHL caliber D today, but our D prospects are the strongest part of our organization right now. You can't take a D ahead of a forward unless you are picking 5th and all 4 forwards are gone, but the top 3 D are still available. IMO. As for Pleks and DD, move DD to wing. Easy. People were saying RNH wasn't ready at the start of this year... yeah... they were sure right? :/ I don't think we can judge if a player isn't ready till they are in training camp. Exactly. Though my gut feeling is that Grigorenko is more likely to be ready than Galchenyuk just due to the development time he lost due to the injury, but even then we won't know til Camp. Still being NHL ready faster isn't my criteria for drafting. Its getting the guy who will be the best player in 3-4 years from now, not who will have the best season as an 18 year old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinorama Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 The D in the pipeline is already loaded. Yes we need two NHL caliber D today, but our D prospects are the strongest part of our organization right now. You can't take a D ahead of a forward unless you are picking 5th and all 4 forwards are gone, but the top 3 D are still available. IMO. As for Pleks and DD, move DD to wing. Easy. Exactly. Though my gut feeling is that Grigorenko is more likely to be ready than Galchenyuk just due to the development time he lost due to the injury, but even then we won't know til Camp. Still being NHL ready faster isn't my criteria for drafting. Its getting the guy who will be the best player in 3-4 years from now, not who will have the best season as an 18 year old. don't think DD will be able to adapt to the wing, I think he'll get killed along the boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 DD to me is a lot like Matt Stajan or even a guy like Yannic Perreault. He's a temporary top six solution who'll likely bounce around the league playing in top six situations but will never solidify his spot. I think moving him this summer is the best possible move, while his value is at its peak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 don't think DD will be able to adapt to the wing, I think he'll get killed along the boards. All the guys his size end up on wing. LA converted Cammallari from Natural Centre to wing. Buffalo converted Ennis and Gerbe both natural centres to wing. Gionta and St. Louis are wings. Fleury was converted from centre to wing. If we look at the really small players (5'8" and lower) the long term position for nearly all of them (exception Cliff Ronning) ends up being at wing. The reason for this is all the down low work in your own zone, playing defensive hockey. The centre has to support the D when defending against the cycle, the Centre is the guy who has to do the board play behind his own net and in the corners, and who has to cover guys in the slot or side of the net. This is the area Desharnais gets killed. Offensively his board play will all be chasing loose pucks, digging them out in the corner and getting them to the front of the net. He actually is very, very good at doing this. That type of board work is a strength of his game. The board work in the defensive zone where he has to contain a guy bigger than him from carrying the puck out of the corner and driving the net, is where his lack of size is exploited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 All the guys his size end up on wing. LA converted Cammallari from Natural Centre to wing. Buffalo converted Ennis and Gerbe both natural centres to wing. Gionta and St. Louis are wings. Fleury was converted from centre to wing. If we look at the really small players (5'8" and lower) the long term position for nearly all of them (exception Cliff Ronning) ends up being at wing. The reason for this is all the down low work in your own zone, playing defensive hockey. The centre has to support the D when defending against the cycle, the Centre is the guy who has to do the board play behind his own net and in the corners, and who has to cover guys in the slot or side of the net. This is the area Desharnais gets killed. Offensively his board play will all be chasing loose pucks, digging them out in the corner and getting them to the front of the net. He actually is very, very good at doing this. That type of board work is a strength of his game. The board work in the defensive zone where he has to contain a guy bigger than him from carrying the puck out of the corner and driving the net, is where his lack of size is exploited. And in this situation the d-men can react and help and DD can watch for the pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinorama Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 All the guys his size end up on wing. LA converted Cammallari from Natural Centre to wing. Buffalo converted Ennis and Gerbe both natural centres to wing. Gionta and St. Louis are wings. Fleury was converted from centre to wing. If we look at the really small players (5'8" and lower) the long term position for nearly all of them (exception Cliff Ronning) ends up being at wing. The reason for this is all the down low work in your own zone, playing defensive hockey. The centre has to support the D when defending against the cycle, the Centre is the guy who has to do the board play behind his own net and in the corners, and who has to cover guys in the slot or side of the net. This is the area Desharnais gets killed. Offensively his board play will all be chasing loose pucks, digging them out in the corner and getting them to the front of the net. He actually is very, very good at doing this. That type of board work is a strength of his game. The board work in the defensive zone where he has to contain a guy bigger than him from carrying the puck out of the corner and driving the net, is where his lack of size is exploited. I just don't think he's got the speed those guys have. He's shifty but not very speedy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I just don't think he's got the speed those guys have. He's shifty but not very speedy GREAT nickname Sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 I just don't think he's got the speed those guys have. He's shifty but not very speedy He doesn't have the speed of say St. Louis, but I don't think thats an issue in converting him to Wing vs Centre. I just think his game is so much more suited to the wing in the defensive zone where he is covering the pass back to the point and watching dmen, instead of trying to contain a forward down low. This is why he's a better PKer than 5 on 5 defensive guy, because he isnt working down low. His speed has been good enough for him at centre, I don't see where its a liability when he moves to wing. Typically Centres need to be better skaters than wingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blonde Demon Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Just for those who say Grigorenko is dropping in the rankings because people are saying he is lazy or whatever, Corey Pronmen (NHL Draft/Prospects writer for Hockey Prospectus and ESPN) says this about him.. "Grigorenko is not as physical as you'd like, but considering his physical gifts he has an average physical game overall and I have no concerns with his work ethic. He plays a slow down, cerebral type of game which IMO can look like a lazy player. He doesnt go all out every shift but hes not lazy and as one Head Scout says, "Grigorenko at 80% is still the best player on the ice". He's actually a very effective defensive forward and can win board battles. There are no major intangible issues with him ala Filatov." If he is there we take him... Edited March 2, 2012 by Blonde Demon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Galchenyuk is seeing his doctors to get clearance for contact today. 1-2 weeks away from playing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Galchenyuk is seeing his doctors to get clearance for contact today. 1-2 weeks away from playing Has he not played at all this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Has he not played at all this season? training camp injury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 So what's the deal with Galchenyuk's game? All I ever hear about him is that he's good enough to be a top 10 despite not having played a game this year. But how does he play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 So what's the deal with Galchenyuk's game? All I ever hear about him is that he's good enough to be a top 10 despite not having played a game this year. But how does he play? If he hits his max potential (thats an if because some guys fall short,but if) - start with Plekanec (speed, two way play, fiesty, etc) - add 4-5 inches of height to bring him to 6-2/6-3 when fully grown - add Kovalev like stick handling - add a great wrist shot and release (see maybe like Patches) - add a little more vision and creativity - put in Subban's work ethic in the gym Here is what he did as a 16 year old #94 and 12 <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/M5tWK459ZXo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IcekDhyzUwY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O6vi8jQSH4E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davehab Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 GREAT nickname Sir. speaking of which id like to change my name how do i do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 DD to me is a lot like Matt Stajan or even a guy like Yannic Perreault. He's a temporary top six solution who'll likely bounce around the league playing in top six situations but will never solidify his spot. I think moving him this summer is the best possible move, while his value is at its peak. Would suck to lose him but would be a shrewd move by the GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Would suck to lose him but would be a shrewd move by the GM. i agree, i love DD's play and value and would hate to see moved, but i just see him and Plekanec as being 1 too many small centres; and DD and Weber could be a very inexpensive and attractive package for a young team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafrous10 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 i agree, i love DD's play and value and would hate to see moved, but i just see him and Plekanec as being 1 too many small centres; and DD and Weber could be a very inexpensive and attractive package for a young team. DD is twice the player Eller is. Keep DD and Pleks. Eller may have some value in a package Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV-G Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Depending on how we finish in the standings this year we have a very good chance of ending up with a top 5 pick and maybe even a top 3 pick. Steve HIndle wrote a very good evaluation of our prospects going into this draft and lays out a plan that to me is exciting for us going forward. He makes the point that we could possibly trade to get two picks in the top ten and end up addressing two of our most important needs, a top line center and a top line defenceman or potentially two top line centers. It's worth a read. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Steven-Hindle/Evaluating-Montreals-Propsects--Draft-Needs/139/42686 As he describes it we could be a very good team next year and even better the following. Puts an encouraging spin on this years disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 DD is twice the player Eller is. Keep DD and Pleks. Eller may have some value in a package I would trade DD before Eller and DD has more value for sure right now. But from the Habs perspective Eller is younger and more importantly BIGGER. DD is 25 and entering his prime, I would not be upset if we kept him but I would be happy if they could trade him as part of a package for an elite SIGNED upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blonde Demon Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Just for the record, I would take Galchenyuk over Grigorenko..Just throwing that out there...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafrous10 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Just for the record, I would take Galchenyuk over Grigorenko..Just throwing that out there...lol I keep reading that this is a weak top10 draft.Oh well we should have another crack at it next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaboom Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 DD to me is a lot like Matt Stajan or even a guy like Yannic Perreault. He's a temporary top six solution who'll likely bounce around the league playing in top six situations but will never solidify his spot. I think moving him this summer is the best possible move, while his value is at its peak. Really? why is that? have you watched any of the games this year? The worst part of his game is on the draw and he is getting better. Whats not to like ? play's to hard? by far one of our best forwards this year and is not the problem why we are where we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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