hab29RETIRED Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 People love to bring up the donation of mcdonagh to the rangers as one of the biggest mistakes this organization has made in the last decade and to be fair it was, but.. if we had not traded him there is a significant chance our 2011-12 season would not have been as bad as it was and we never would have had the opportunity to take Galchenyuk at #3. So hypothetically if it were possible, would anyone trade Galchenyuk for McDonagh and 2012 1st round pick between 12-24? Bear in mind the reliability of the draft outside the top 5 or top 10. sure and if we hadn't traded Chelios, and had Denis Savard as a cheerleader, we may not have won the 93' cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sim.on Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 My point is that imho I think we are better off today because of the McDonagh trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 People love to bring up the donation of mcdonagh to the rangers as one of the biggest mistakes this organization has made in the last decade and to be fair it was, but.. if we had not traded him there is a significant chance our 2011-12 season would not have been as bad as it was and we never would have had the opportunity to take Galchenyuk at #3. So hypothetically if it were possible, would anyone trade Galchenyuk for McDonagh and 2012 1st round pick between 12-24? Bear in mind the reliability of the draft outside the top 5 or top 10. To be clear i did not say that trading Mcdonagh was a mistake (it was but I didn't say that) I was making the point that that was the last bolsd move by this team and probably the boldest move in 20 years. My point is that imho I think we are better off today because of the McDonagh trade. Really? paying Gomez 7+ million per year to figure skate aroung was a GOOD idea? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 My point is that imho I think we are better off today because of the McDonagh trade. so you're saying we are better off not having Subban-McDonough pairing today? Consensus was the rangers would have to offer a sweetener for someone to take Gomez's salary. Instead we gave away Higgins, McDonough, Valetenko for gomez. to say that it was a good trade, because we sucked so bad 3 years later because of Gainey's stupidity and got Galchenyuk makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sim.on Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 so you're saying we are better off not having Subban-McDonough pairing today? Im saying that Id rather have Galchenyuk than McDonagh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 This line of argument reminds me of Bernard Mandeville's suggestion that disasters at sea are actually a good thing because they create jobs for shipbuilders. You're basically saying that donating McDonagh led directly to us finishing in the bottom-3 in the league, but we're supposed to look at the sunny side, because we ended up with Galchenyuk. I admire the commitment to optimism. But any trade that unintentionally leads to a team being a bottom-feeder is a bad trade by definition. Apart from that, this team still has a structural need for a quality top-4 defenceman. And we would be much better with one in the lineup. That's McDonagh. So Galy aside, that trade is still hurting us. I'll say this much: under Bob Gainey, the Habs were not afraid to make bold moves. He went out and got Kovalev. He bet the franchise on the controversial Price pick. When he saw a chance to contend, he dealt away picks like crazy to add players he thought would address team weaknesses. When that didn't work, he firebombed the entire roster AND the entire coaching staffs at both NHL and AHL levels in what I still think represents the single most radical act of GMing in living memory. We can complain that he made too many errors - which he did - but he hardly a "stand pat" guy. MB has stood pat so far, but I don't think anyone expected us to contend by this season. What we need to see next year is clear progress in addressing longstanding weaknesses rather than nibbling at the edges. Bourque and Gio had better be gone, with some sort of upgrade in the place of at least one of them. We also need an upgrade at D (and if that means moving Markov, so be it). Remember that we did see progress last season, so it would have been odd for MB to make bold moves after that. This year has been more flatlining combined with disturbing indications that last year's late-season meltdown was not a fluke but a symptom. He has more info now. Time to crank it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 so you're saying we are better off not having Subban-McDonough pairing today? Oh man I'd love that pairing. I've said it before, but McDonough was the answer to the question "How do we replace Hamrlik?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Im saying that Id rather have Galchenyuk than McDonagh that is not a choice we had. I would like to have Gretzky at 21 but not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Subban-McDonagh could have been an all-time great pairing for the Habs. It would have been the best pairing in the league (or close to it), and could have been together for over a decade. Let's hope Galchenyuk can make us forget that a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Oh man I'd love that pairing. I've said it before, but McDonough was the answer to the question "How do we replace Hamrlik?" No McDonough was the answer to are we going to ever have a big three al la the 70's again. IMO Subban, McDonough and Markov, while not exactly Robinson, Savard, Lapointe, would be pretty impressive. McDonough by next year will be better than Hamrlik ever was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 To suggest that trading McDonough lead to the drafting of Galchenyk is illogical. We would be in different drafting slot than we were every year. Our whole roster would look different. Maybe subban lands with somelse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 To suggest that trading McDonough lead to the drafting of Galchenyk is illogical. We would be in different drafting slot than we were every year. Our whole roster would look different. Maybe subban lands with somelse? Subban was drafted the same year we drafted McDonaugh. McDonaugh would have made it a bit harder for Emelin to crack the lineup. Maybe Emelin doesn't leave Russia would be the consequence but maybe not. It's still very possible that with McDonaugh we still finish with a third overall pick. Price didn't have a bad year in 11-12. The team had a collapse in depth mixed with atrocious coaching. McDonaugh might have put a ton of time on the ice but never stopped Montreal from their downfall that season. I tend to be of the opinion that Pierre Gauthier purposely tanked that season when he realized that after picking up Kaberle that the season was going to be a lost cause. However I don't give him props or credit for it. When your goal isn't to win, you shouldn't be leading something. Even during a rebuild, your goal should still be to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Subban was drafted the same year we drafted McDonaugh. McDonaugh would have made it a bit harder for Emelin to crack the lineup. Maybe Emelin doesn't leave Russia would be the consequence but maybe not. It's still very possible that with McDonaugh we still finish with a third overall pick. Price didn't have a bad year in 11-12. The team had a collapse in depth mixed with atrocious coaching. McDonaugh might have put a ton of time on the ice but never stopped Montreal from their downfall that season. I tend to be of the opinion that Pierre Gauthier purposely tanked that season when he realized that after picking up Kaberle that the season was going to be a lost cause. However I don't give him props or credit for it. When your goal isn't to win, you shouldn't be leading something. Even during a rebuild, your goal should still be to win. Good catch on my Subban reference. Not a good choice on my part. My point would be , that who we select in every round after he was traded and where that talent takes us infleunces every subsequent pick. therefore there can be no suggestion that his departure could be linked to the galchenyuk pick three years later. Too many other things happening to make the statement that McD departed give us the 3rd pick overall in 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Good catch on my Subban reference. Not a good choice on my part. My point would be , that who we select in every round after he was traded and where that talent takes us infleunces every subsequent pick. therefore there can be no suggestion that his departure could be linked to the galchenyuk pick three years later. Too many other things happening to make the statement that McD departed give us the 3rd pick overall in 2012. The only trades in recent history I think really made a difference: - Adding Schneider, Bergeron and Wiz did change our team's defensive scoring dynamic enough to make a difference in the standings. - Had we not traded Souray in 06-07 we would have made the playoffs. And the two trades that never happened which would have changed the team completely: - Montreal offered two first round draft picks, Richard Zednik, Andrei Markov and Jose Theodore for the first overall pick in the Ilya Kovalchuk year. The deal fell apart because Don Waddell considered Mathieu Garon to have more potential and wanted him over Jose. Had Savard gone ahead with it, Montreal would have been without Komisarek and Markov but had Kovalchuk up front. - Again with Atlanta. Marian Hossa did not become a Hab because when Pittsburgh upped their offer in the 11th hour, the Thrashers asked for Chris Higgins. If I remember correctly it was Grabovski/Chipchura/Halak and they wanted Higgins instead of Grabovski to goto Montreal. Gainey refused. Had he said yes, we would have had Hossa in 07-08 to go against Philly and seeing as he liked Montreal, he might have stayed. More important, there never would have been a goaltending controversy in Montreal between Price and Halak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Andrei Markov (to help the kings 28th ranked pp) Rene Borque Our 2014 4th and 5th rounders for Dwight King (RFA summer 2014) Jake Muzzin (RFA summer 2015) LA s 2014 1st round pick Help LA out on the powerplay, we get some some well needed size and physicality. Thoughts? Muzzin is playing number two minutes, so we won't get him. King and a first maybe. Or Markov straight up for King. Bourque is below the value of a throw in imo. A loafer with two more years, to include him in a deal, we'd have to take salary back. Markov + Bourque vs Muzzin + King leaves the Kings eating about 6 million in cap space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The only trades in recent history I think really made a difference: - Adding Schneider, Bergeron and Wiz did change our team's defensive scoring dynamic enough to make a difference in the standings. - Had we not traded Souray in 06-07 we would have made the playoffs. And the two trades that never happened which would have changed the team completely: - Montreal offered two first round draft picks, Richard Zednik, Andrei Markov and Jose Theodore for the first overall pick in the Ilya Kovalchuk year. The deal fell apart because Don Waddell considered Mathieu Garon to have more potential and wanted him over Jose. Had Savard gone ahead with it, Montreal would have been without Komisarek and Markov but had Kovalchuk up front. - Again with Atlanta. Marian Hossa did not become a Hab because when Pittsburgh upped their offer in the 11th hour, the Thrashers asked for Chris Higgins. If I remember correctly it was Grabovski/Chipchura/Halak and they wanted Higgins instead of Grabovski to goto Montreal. Gainey refused. Had he said yes, we would have had Hossa in 07-08 to go against Philly and seeing as he liked Montreal, he might have stayed. More important, there never would have been a goaltending controversy in Montreal between Price and Halak. To be a goof, Souray was let walk as a UFA in Summer and signed by Oilers! Same as Koivu-Kovalev, for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I understand why Gainey did not deal Souray at the deadline...he wanted his team to get playoff experience and he needed a playoff appearance in order to raise the team's reputation with UFAs. Nevertheless, I attacked that decision at the time and still find it frustratingly bad asset management. It was especially frustrating given that a year later he traded Huet at the deadline - thus throwing all our playoff hopes on the shoulders of rookie Price, who ended up buckling - and justified his decision as "asset management." Way to get it backwards. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Blah, meant to say Rivet. Oh well. We should have traded Souray, agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Would Andrew Macdonald be a good cheap rental pick up from the Isles? Seems lots of assists and blocks for $550,000 and he is playing 25+minutes/game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I don't want us going after rentals, unless we're giving back washed-up vets we won't resign or else the Human Turd. Typically, though, rentals cost draft picks - not the right move given the state of this organization. This deadline should bring one or all of the following IMHO: 1. Hockey moves - bona-fide trades, not just "rentals" to improve the team. 2. Getting returns on washed-up assets with an eye to the longer-term needs of the organization: e.g., Gio, Markov, whatever. 3. Trading marginal picks or prospects for marginal rentals. Any or all of these would be acceptable. Dealing, say, 2nd rounders? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Rumors that the Canadiens may be willing to trade P.K. Subban for Parenteau, prospect(s) and draft picks.... What a joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Rumors that the Canadiens may be willing to trade P.K. Subban for Parenteau, prospect(s) and draft picks.... What a joke The guy who wrote it had no source and his editor at the Denver post claimed he never mentioned Subban. All you need to know there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 The guy who wrote it had no source and his editor at the Denver post claimed he never mentioned Subban. All you need to know there. as long as prospect's name is Nathan M., then maybe worth discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 Would Andrew Macdonald be a good cheap rental pick up from the Isles? Seems lots of assists and blocks for $550,000 and he is playing 25+minutes/game. He'd be cheap on the cap but he'll be pricey to acquire for that reason. Most teams can only afford a guy making near the minimum so the amount of suitors he'll have at the deadline will be really high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Plus he is another perimeter player. The habs have plenty of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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