hab29RETIRED Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 2 hours ago, Commandant said: I dont think you need to give.up our pick. I think itd be more like the Jets pick, one of Harris/Barron/Struble, and another prospect like Roy. Do you mean the Sabres? I wouldn’t want to include Roy in the deal. Hasn’t scored 10 goals yet and is from the Andersson draft. I’d rather see if Andersson can play. If it’s just Harris - Sure. If Sabres want more size and grit in addition to Harris, I’d be happy to throw in Josh Anderson😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 On 2/10/2024 at 9:43 AM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Mittelstadt wants to get paid what he is worth. I never quarrel with a player who takes that stand. Any team acquiring him will need to shill out. In terms of the Habs' interest, everything would depend on how they see the team's window. Acquiring Mittelstadt means we will not have benefitted from any of his years of cap value. That's a move you make if you expect to contend within a couple of years, I'd think. I wish he were a couple of years younger. Assuming we're interested, what would get it done? Our 1st round pick plus - ? Not sure why we are in a hurry to throw around first round picks+ for a guy who MAY score 20 goals this year, but hasn’t scored more than 15 yet. I certainly wouldn’t move one our top forward prospects like Roy or a first round pick for him. Form our D prospects, the only guys I’d be willing to move is Harris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 3 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: Do you mean the Sabres? I wouldn’t want to include Roy in the deal. Hasn’t scored 10 goals yet and is from the Andersson draft. I’d rather see if Andersson can play. If it’s just Harris - Sure. If Sabres want more size and grit in addition to Harris, I’d be happy to throw in Josh Anderson😁 By the Jets i meant the pick The Jets 1st round pick (acquired for Monahan) one of the defence, and a decent prospect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 4 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: Not sure why we are in a hurry to throw around first round picks+ for a guy who MAY score 20 goals this year, but hasn’t scored more than 15 yet. I certainly wouldn’t move one our top forward prospects like Roy or a first round pick for him. Form our D prospects, the only guys I’d be willing to move is Harris. I agree, although Middlestadt would be an improvement to what we have now, he is 25, his career high is 59 points and needs to be signed, not sure what he is expecting as he can't be too far from UFA status. The Jets pick plus Roy plus one of Harris/Struble/Barron is not a cheap price. If he was 22 instead of 25 I would be more interested and I am not sure if his ceiling is much higher than what he has shown so far. I would prefer to see what we can get at the draft or hope/pray Dach can remain healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 3 hours ago, Commandant said: By the Jets i meant the pick The Jets 1st round pick (acquired for Monahan) one of the defence, and a decent prospect. Oh, ok, gotcha. I’m not sure I’d want to move a first pick and a prospect for a 25 year old who may be nothing more than a Joel Armia type of guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 2 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said: I agree, although Middlestadt would be an improvement to what we have now, he is 25, his career high is 59 points and needs to be signed, not sure what he is expecting as he can't be too far from UFA status. The Jets pick plus Roy plus one of Harris/Struble/Barron is not a cheap price. If he was 22 instead of 25 I would be more interested and I am not sure if his ceiling is much higher than what he has shown so far. I would prefer to see what we can get at the draft or hope/pray Dach can remain healthy. Agreed. It would be a huge regret if Roy outscores him in two years. I certainly wouldn’t want to take that risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 22 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said: Oh, ok, gotcha. I’m not sure I’d want to move a first pick and a prospect for a 25 year old who may be nothing more than a Joel Armia type of guy. Mittelstadt had 59 points last season and has 42 in 51 games this year. I think it has been established that he's not another Armia, a player who has cracked 30 points once in his career. Not to mention that they don't play the same position or the same style of play (Mittelstadt isn't great in his own end while Armia is a checker). They're about as opposite of players as there can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 2 hours ago, dlbalr said: Mittelstadt had 59 points last season and has 42 in 51 games this year. I think it has been established that he's not another Armia, a player who has cracked 30 points once in his career. Not to mention that they don't play the same position or the same style of play (Mittelstadt isn't great in his own end while Armia is a checker). They're about as opposite of players as there can be. We need guys who can score. He had 15 last year and has 12 this year. We’ve hit some guys who look like they can be decent playmakers, but only one real sniper in Caufield and hopefully Slafkovsky can be another. If we are going to give up high picks and top prospects it needs to be for finishers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 5 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said: Oh, ok, gotcha. I’m not sure I’d want to move a first pick and a prospect for a 25 year old who may be nothing more than a Joel Armia type of guy. He had 59 points last year and is on pace to be even better this year. I dont think hes a joel armia. Hes doing it without a ton of PP time too. His game is more playmaking than goal scoring. I think with Suzuki, Dach and Mittelstadt wed have 3 excellent 2-way centres who can play against any team's top line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 5 hours ago, dlbalr said: Mittelstadt had 59 points last season and has 42 in 51 games this year. I think it has been established that he's not another Armia, a player who has cracked 30 points once in his career. Not to mention that they don't play the same position or the same style of play (Mittelstadt isn't great in his own end while Armia is a checker). They're about as opposite of players as there can be. Not your traditional checker but the Sabres control possession and scoring chances pretty well when he is on the ice. These last two years hes really improved at both ends. And as a playmaker, is top 10 in the league in terms passing to create a scoring chance at 5v5 hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 He's an interesting possibility. Whether the Sabres are really going to be trading him is the big question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 13 hours ago, Commandant said: I think with Suzuki, Dach and Mittelstadt wed have 3 excellent 2-way centres who can play against any team's top line. I don't think there is any question that would be a stronger group up the middle. My concern is how much does Mittlestadt get paid for being a 3rd line center. I am guessing he would want 5-6 mil plus. Just guessing Again really unfortunate with the Dach injury. It's harder to plan not knowing how good Dach will be or if he will be able to stay healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I look at it this way.... You can pay ___ Million for your top 3 centres. Some team might be paying 13 million for matthews and 11 for Tavares and then have to go cheap on their #3. Or McDavid/Draksaitl, etc On the Habs could you pay 8 for Suzuki, 5 for Dach and 7 for mittelstadt and stjll come in cheaper and have more money for wingers and defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredoh2009 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Luke and Casey https://montrealhockeynow.com/2023/06/29/montreal-canadiens-select-luke-mittelstadt-montreal-canadiens-prospects-defenceman/ Like Florian and Arber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 35 minutes ago, Commandant said: I look at it this way.... You can pay ___ Million for your top 3 centres. Some team might be paying 13 million for matthews and 11 for Tavares and then have to go cheap on their #3. Or McDavid/Draksaitl, etc On the Habs could you pay 8 for Suzuki, 5 for Dach and 7 for mittelstadt and stjll come in cheaper and have more money for wingers and defense. I like the philosophy...but it'll all come down to player evaluation. I'm not a prospect expert, but I find it a bit optimistic to project that Joshua Roy will be a 60-point player like Mittelstadt. In terms of 3rd-line C, though, are we better off paying Mittelstadt 5-6 mil per, or bringing Owen Beck along? Beck might not be as productive, but he'd be a lot cheaper for several seasons. We can call that "going cheap" but if Beck projects to become a quality two-way NHL C, then maybe we leave Mittelstadt alone. On the other hand, he does provide some degree of organizational insurance if Dach turns out to be damaged goods. In some ways, that would be a stronger justification for acquiring him - because if Dach is indeed compromised, then the rebuild is hooped unless we have a Plan B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 48 minutes ago, Commandant said: I look at it this way.... You can pay ___ Million for your top 3 centres. Some team might be paying 13 million for matthews and 11 for Tavares and then have to go cheap on their #3. Or McDavid/Draksaitl, etc On the Habs could you pay 8 for Suzuki, 5 for Dach and 7 for mittelstadt and stjll come in cheaper and have more money for wingers and defense. It's one way of thinking about it. I would say though, that if you're paying a player $5m+ they shouldn't be on the 3rd line, limiting minutes and quality of teammates. I know there are 3rd line players making $5m+, like Gallagher, but they were signed to those contracts while being under the assumption of playing top-6 roles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 6 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I like the philosophy...but it'll all come down to player evaluation. I'm not a prospect expert, but I find it a bit optimistic to project that Joshua Roy will be a 60-point player like Mittelstadt. In terms of 3rd-line C, though, are we better off paying Mittelstadt 5-6 mil per, or bringing Owen Beck along? Beck might not be as productive, but he'd be a lot cheaper for several seasons. We can call that "going cheap" but if Beck projects to become a quality two-way NHL C, then maybe we leave Mittelstadt alone. On the other hand, he does provide some degree of organizational insurance if Dach turns out to be damaged goods. In some ways, that would be a stronger justification for acquiring him - because if Dach is indeed compromised, then the rebuild is hooped unless we have a Plan B. I don't think many here are projecting Roy as a 60 point player as the proposals to get Middlestadt included a lot more than Roy which they should. My thinking is the same about Beck as he could be a very good 3rd line center and a much cheaper option especially when you will have many young defensemen coming off entry level contracts in a couple years. Hughes has a lot of balls to juggle when it comes to salary going forward, true for any GM trying to build and maintain a competitive team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 minute ago, TurdBurglar said: It's one way of thinking about it. I would say though, that if you're paying a player $5m+ they shouldn't be on the 3rd line, limiting minutes and quality of teammates. I know there are 3rd line players making $5m+, like Gallagher, but they were signed to those contracts while being under the assumption of playing top-6 roles. That's a good point, I think we would be complaining about a 3rd line guy making 5mil a year as their stats would likely deteriorate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, Commandant said: I look at it this way.... You can pay ___ Million for your top 3 centres ... 1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I like the philosophy ... In terms of 3rd-line C, though, are we better off paying Mittelstadt 5-6 mil per, or bringing Owen Beck along? ... On the other hand, he does provide some degree of organizational insurance if Dach turns out to be damaged goods. 53 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said: I would say though, that if you're paying a player $5m+ they shouldn't be on the 3rd line, limiting minutes and quality of teammates. I too like the philosophy. But looking at their respective career faceoff histories (Dach 35.3%, never above 40.4%; Mittelstadt 46.8%, never below 44.7%), it might make sense to consider Mittelstadt as a possible 2C and Dach as a winger ... Kirby showed last season, albeit in a short stint, he could be productive on the wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 5 hours ago, TurdBurglar said: It's one way of thinking about it. I would say though, that if you're paying a player $5m+ they shouldn't be on the 3rd line, limiting minutes and quality of teammates. I know there are 3rd line players making $5m+, like Gallagher, but they were signed to those contracts while being under the assumption of playing top-6 roles. My third line centre is probably getting nearly as many minutes of even strength play as the guys in the top 2 lines. Going 1D and 4Fwds on both PP units, I need 8 forwards for the PP, so two of my third liners (and ideally the centre to help win faceoffs) are going to be used on the PP. I'm not opposed to having a good third line centre. Many here wanted to re-sign Monahan, who would have been the third centre next season. This is a younger player, with less injury concerns, who might even be better. That's what I'm looking at here. And yes, he won't get the first line wingers, but he should get some talent. Lets look at the 2025-26 season. This is what I would hope for after such a trade. Top 3 lines worth of forwards...... (9 in no particular order).... Suzuki, Caufield, Slafkovsky, Dach, Newhook, Mittelstadt, (Roy, Mesar, Heineman, 1 would be in the trade and hope 1 develops), the 2024 first round draft pick (ours), and one other prospect coming through or one other acquisition on the free agent market/Trade By that time, you'd have cleared some bad contracts and hope Anderson could also be moved to make room for that 9th forward. I think we need 10 or 11 guys we feel comfortable playing in our top 9 as injuries will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 The thing is right now we keep talking about how this team sucks cause its essentially been a one line time. Ok, we have our one line. Ok, Dach and Newhook are top 6 forwards who haven't been healthy, you'd hope to have them. You still need four more solid players to get to 9..... With the trade, I'd hope to fill one of the 4 holes, and hope a draft pick, a prospect or two coming through the system and maybe another acquisition would do it. I'd also be cautious of anointing Beck as the third line centre. We all hope he can be that, and his trajectory so far is good but he's still a 19 year old junior player, we've seen many who looked good and took time in the AHL or never made it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomh009 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 And Gallagher on the fourth line. 😊 More seriously, this assumes that none of the other young(ish) players or prospects are really top-nine material: Evans, Ylonen, RHP, Gignac, Mesar, Farrell, Kidney, Beck. Or some of those might yet turn out be good enough to fill in on the top nine in case of injuries? (I don't see a top-line ceiling for those, but that's not really the gap, it's the top nine.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHT120 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 51 minutes ago, tomh009 said: More seriously, this assumes that none of the other young(ish) players or prospects are really top-nine material: Evans, Ylonen, RHP, Gignac, Mesar, Farrell, Kidney, Beck. Or some of those might yet turn out be good enough to fill in on the top nine in case of injuries? (I don't see a top-line ceiling for those, but that's not really the gap, it's the top nine.) My thoughts: Evans: On a serious wildcard contender or better, an expensive 4C Ylonen: 4th liner, but lacks "true" 4th line edge RHP: solid 4th liner Gignac: 4th liner from what little I've see thus far Mesar: unknown, has shown some promise but Beck is scoring at an ever so slightly higher pace Farrell: hasn't shown much in the AHL this season Kidney: 4th liner from what he has shown thus far Beck: unknown, but promising Mesar and Beck might fight it out for the 3C in a couple of years, but then again might not ... I see the rest as 4th liners or AHLers, unless they "sprout" ... but the Habs can't plan on "sprouting". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs Fan in Edmonton Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, Commandant said: I'd also be cautious of anointing Beck as the third line centre. We all hope he can be that, and his trajectory so far is good but he's still a 19 year old junior player, we've seen many who looked good and took time in the AHL or never made it at all. Of course there are no guarantees but if I had to put my money on any Hab prospect making it, I would put my money on Beck due to his skating ability, work ethic, hockey IQ, face off ability, 200 ft game etc. I just don't see many or any major flaws in his game. I am not totally against Middlestadt, like any trade it depends on what you have to give up and what you have to pay him. I am not as familiar with him as you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 hours ago, tomh009 said: And Gallagher on the fourth line. 😊 More seriously, this assumes that none of the other young(ish) players or prospects are really top-nine material: Evans, Ylonen, RHP, Gignac, Mesar, Farrell, Kidney, Beck. Or some of those might yet turn out be good enough to fill in on the top nine in case of injuries? (I don't see a top-line ceiling for those, but that's not really the gap, it's the top nine.) Evans and Gignac are what they are. They can fill in at times but are fourth liners. Their age doesnt suggest much more than what we've seen. Mesar is a guy i mentioned as a possible top.9 forward. 30+ games without a goal for Ylonen, i think we are seeing hes not a top.9. Kidney, Farrell have a ways to go in the AHL as they have been pretty ordinary so far but they are rookies. Beck looks promising but hasnt even hit the AHL yet (same is true of Mesar). They are a bit away from the NHL and both are maybes more than sure things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.