Lovett's Magnatones Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 don, are u even old enough to remember the chelios for savard fiasco? that trade had a laaaasting affect on the organization in the most negative way possible! chelios went on to win a few Norris trophies, several Stanley cups, and played almost 20 more seasons! what the hell did we get outta savard? zip..so believe me, because it's the last time i'm going to comment on it : the habs are done making "quick fix" deals. you don't sacrifice the future for somebody that may give you a year or 2. Deals like Chelios for Savard just don't happen anymore. It sucks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 don, are u even old enough to remember the chelios for savard fiasco? that trade had a laaaasting affect on the organization in the most negative way possible! chelios went on to win a few Norris trophies, several Stanley cups, and played almost 20 more seasons! what the hell did we get outta savard? zip..so believe me, because it's the last time i'm going to comment on it : the habs are done making "quick fix" deals. you don't sacrifice the future for somebody that may give you a year or 2. I think Beaulieu is going to turn into something special too. He has size and speed, exactly what we need on the back end. On top of having talent the kid can scrap too. I'm honestly excited to see what he can do when he starts to get some regular reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Deals like Chelios for Savard just don't happen anymore. It sucks... Yeah. Heatley-Hossa is pretty much the last one of these... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 You do know why Chelios was traded? He and Carbo were "co-captains', which was just idiotic and he said lately that he was also not a fan of constant criticism by fans/media, is why he wanted out. Again, not comparable trade and if didn't trade Chelios he would of walked for nothing, so Habs backed themselves into a corner and got what they could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 You do know why Chelios was traded? He and Carbo were "co-captains', which was just idiotic and he said lately that he was also not a fan of constant criticism by fans/media, is why he wanted out. Again, not comparable trade and if didn't trade Chelios he would of walked for nothing, so Habs backed themselves into a corner and got what they could. They could have had Dale Hawerchuk. Two teams were trading D-men in Montreal and Buffalo. Two teams were trading veteran centers in Chicago and Winnipeg. Chelios even knew he was almost dealt for Dale Hawerchuk instead of Savard. Hawerchuk at center would have given us the chance to compete for back to back Cups. He was awesome in the playoffs for Buffalo in 93 and was still point per game in 94. I don't think we would cringe at that trade so much if we got Dale. It would have been more like the Iginla/Niewendyk swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 But comparing Beaulieu to Chelios is a bit far fetched, he had 6 seasons as a Hab before being dealt and had proved he was a top d-man already. And I seem to recall Habs won a cup with guy they traded him for just couple years later. So not sure trade was a death blow to Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 You do know why Chelios was traded? He and Carbo were "co-captains', which was just idiotic and he said lately that he was also not a fan of constant criticism by fans/media, is why he wanted out. Again, not comparable trade and if didn't trade Chelios he would of walked for nothing, so Habs backed themselves into a corner and got what they could. In Montreal (and Province of Quebec), there is a MORE THAN PERSISTANT rumor that have Chelios sleeping with Corey's wife... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 But comparing Beaulieu to Chelios is a bit far fetched, he had 6 seasons as a Hab before being dealt and had proved he was a top d-man already. And I seem to recall Habs won a cup with guy they traded him for just couple years later. So not sure trade was a death blow to Habs. The problem is we always goto the big events when trying to make a comparison. Usually these deals came in a pre-cap world. Trading Beaulieu away to get a guy who might play for us for three years actually holds more comparison to Gomez but then again, Beaulieu is no McDonaugh and Gomez was no Sharp. But it is at least closer to the idea. I can see Nathan Beaulieu developing into like a Keith Yandle for an organization. I'd rather it be us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 In Montreal (and Province of Quebec), there is a MORE THAN PERSISTANT rumor that have Chelios sleeping with Corey's wife... Gossip, but maybe a whole bunch of guys were, cause some of the most idiotic trades in history were while he was president. We had a decent team till he came along. Was Patrick sleeping with her too? Maybe she was pulling a train? That would explain a lot of stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think next year we'll see about 40-50 games of Weaver and Tinordi/Beaulieu as a pairing later in the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The problem is we always goto the big events when trying to make a comparison. Usually these deals came in a pre-cap world. Trading Beaulieu away to get a guy who might play for us for three years actually holds more comparison to Gomez but then again, Beaulieu is no McDonaugh and Gomez was no Sharp. But it is at least closer to the idea. I can see Nathan Beaulieu developing into like a Keith Yandle for an organization. I'd rather it be us. I think he may be a fine d-man and highly friggin unlikely he is going anywhere. But, is mid-summer and just a proposal (good, OK, bad, or terrible? who knows how would play out) I do like Sharp and think he would be a fine addition, but I also am a fan of Eller's and think he will just get better, nto a big fan of Beaulieu's (but think he is super skilled and great skater and who knows how good he may get to be?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Would you trade McDonough as a prospect for Sharpe? I hated the Gomez trade, because I hated trading a big, physical defensive prospect for Gomez who was at the time a 60 point player with a huge contract at the wrong side of 30. Back than, I constantly argued with those who pointed to Gomez's cup rings, skill, speed and I said it than, and I'll say it again. I wouldn't have been willing to move Higgins for Gomez, unless the NYR were also sending us their first round pick for off loading a horrible contract. I see Sharpe as a 65 point player on the wrong side of 30, and see Beaulieu as a big, skilled, smooth skating prospect, who is around the same age as McDonough was. No way I move Beaulieu for Sharpe. I'd move him for grigerenko, but not for a 31 or 32 year old who just had a career year. But comparing Beaulieu to Chelios is a bit far fetched, he had 6 seasons as a Hab before being dealt and had proved he was a top d-man already. And I seem to recall Habs won a cup with guy they traded him for just couple years later. So not sure trade was a death blow to Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I've said it a billion times but I still believe Gainey was supposed to send Fischer. Glen Sather even admitted he never saw McDonaugh play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 He went with his scouts and Gainey was either on crack, or plain incompetent. I've said it a billion times but I still believe Gainey was supposed to send Fischer. Glen Sather even admitted he never saw McDonaugh play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Would you trade McDonough as a prospect for Sharpe? I hated the Gomez trade, because I hated trading a big, physical defensive prospect for Gomez who was at the time a 60 point player with a huge contract at the wrong side of 30. Back than, I constantly argued with those who pointed to Gomez's cup rings, skill, speed and I said it than, and I'll say it again. I wouldn't have been willing to move Higgins for Gomez, unless the NYR were also sending us their first round pick for off loading a horrible contract. I see Sharpe as a 65 point player on the wrong side of 30, and see Beaulieu as a big, skilled, smooth skating prospect, who is around the same age as McDonough was. No way I move Beaulieu for Sharpe. I'd move him for grigerenko, but not for a 31 or 32 year old who just had a career year. Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 He went with his scouts and Gainey was either on crack, or plain incompetent. I think Gainey was desperate. It's not a coincidence that that deal was swung just before the July 1 UFA frenzy. He wanted to retool his roster via free-agency and, rightly or wrongly, felt that "upgrading" on Koivu with Gomez was integral to the success of that strategy. One can argue that he was actually kinda right about that (he did run the table on that year's UFAs, and I recall reading at least one of the UFAs who did sign with us saying that the Gomez move was important because it showed the Habs were "serious"). But obviously this is a classic case of winning the battle and losing the war. If this organization still had MacDonagh we would be bona-fide, elite contenders. Of course, it doesn't help that Gomer's game completely collapsed after one season with us, in a fashion that nobody could reasonably have predicted, but even if it hadn't, we still be looking back and moaning at this stage. Anyway, as I said above, I'm 100% with you on keeping Beaulieu rather than dealing him for aging, expensive talent. Unlike Gainey, WE have no reason to be desperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Somehow getting Perron with Desharnais being the center piece would be amazing for the Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think Gainey was desperate. It's not a coincidence that that deal was swung just before the July 1 UFA frenzy. He wanted to retool his roster via free-agency and, rightly or wrongly, felt that "upgrading" on Koivu with Gomez was integral to the success of that strategy. One can argue that he was actually kinda right about that (he did run the table on that year's UFAs, and I recall reading at least one of the UFAs who did sign with us saying that the Gomez move was important because it showed the Habs were "serious"). But obviously this is a classic case of winning the battle and losing the war. If this organization still had MacDonagh we would be bona-fide, elite contenders. Of course, it doesn't help that Gomer's game completely collapsed after one season with us, in a fashion that nobody could reasonably have predicted, but even if it hadn't, we still be looking back and moaning at this stage. Anyway, as I said above, I'm 100% with you on keeping Beaulieu rather than dealing him for aging, expensive talent. Unlike Gainey, WE have no reason to be desperate. 32 is old? $5.9 is expensive for a proven top 6 forward with his track record, being very picky. Got zero to do with desparation, where does that come from? Asset management and winning a cup is what it boils down to. Many different ways to go about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Would you trade McDonough as a prospect for Sharpe? I hated the Gomez trade, because I hated trading a big, physical defensive prospect for Gomez who was at the time a 60 point player with a huge contract at the wrong side of 30. Back than, I constantly argued with those who pointed to Gomez's cup rings, skill, speed and I said it than, and I'll say it again. I wouldn't have been willing to move Higgins for Gomez, unless the NYR were also sending us their first round pick for off loading a horrible contract. I see Sharpe as a 65 point player on the wrong side of 30, and see Beaulieu as a big, skilled, smooth skating prospect, who is around the same age as McDonough was. No way I move Beaulieu for Sharpe. I'd move him for grigerenko, but not for a 31 or 32 year old who just had a career year. hmph, beaulieu for grigorenko eh? now that's worth discussing..it might take a sweetener as well, but that's an intriguing swap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 32 is old? $5.9 is expensive for a proven top 6 forward with his track record, being very picky. Got zero to do with desparation, where does that come from? Asset management and winning a cup is what it boils down to. Many different ways to go about it. hey don, what you have to remember is that sharp, although skilled and decorated, is 31, with 2 years left on a contract...guess where he's going after that? that's right, back to Chicago as an ufa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 32 is old? $5.9 is expensive for a proven top 6 forward with his track record, being very picky. Got zero to do with desparation, where does that come from? Asset management and winning a cup is what it boils down to. Many different ways to go about it. If you think Beaulieu is Rafael Diaz, then yeah, make the trade. But if you see Beaulieu as becoming a legit top-4, maybe even top-2 defenceman, then you're dealing away a guy who could help us at a low cap hit for a few years and conceivably be a core piece long-term, for a guy with 2-3 peak years left, if that. I prefer that we keep building rather than start shipping out core young assets to WIN NOW. Like you say, different ways to build a winner, but I prefer to let the team's natural arc of talent-replenishment do its work rather than keep trying to short-circuit that for quick fixes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 hey don, what you have to remember is that sharp, although skilled and decorated, is 31, with 2 years left on a contract...guess where he's going after that? that's right, back to Chicago as an ufa. Sharp has 3 years left and given Chicago's cap situation, they likely won't be able to re-sign him at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 hey don, what you have to remember is that sharp, although skilled and decorated, is 31, with 2 years left on a contract...guess where he's going after that? that's right, back to Chicago as an ufa. Buffalo have young Dmen to spare, but that's the kind of exciting deal that I would like to see. How about this for a midsummer-proposal? Desharnais/Beaulieu for Rasmus Ristolainen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I think Habs Mgmt agree with most and will see if Beaulieu can play a regular shift this year. Tinordi was doing OK in limited minutes, then given a regular shift for a game or two, seemed to struggle, his icetime melted down to 9minutes and off to Hamilton he went and was very quiet for a month or two before he got his confidence back and starting playing more physical. Ristolainen! Might as well ask for Zadorov, however, unless Mike Milbury or Doug Maclean is hired by Sabres it aint happening. But, would be sweet deal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I think Habs Mgmt agree with most and will see if Beaulieu can play a regular shift this year. Tinordi was doing OK in limited minutes, then given a regular shift for a game or two, seemed to struggle, his icetime melted down to 9minutes and off to Hamilton he went and was very quiet for a month or two before he got his confidence back and starting playing more physical. Ristolainen! Might as well ask for Zadorov, however, unless Mike Milbury or Doug Maclean is hired by Sabres it aint happening. But, would be sweet deal! I agree..Ristolainen is buffalos new stud defenseman, they'd never consider that trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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