Permanent Trade Proposal Thread

[habs rule]

That and to ask, if acquiring a big number one centre is the number one priority of the Habs, are you willing to mortgage the current future of the Habs to acquire it?

We could do the same with Joe Thornton (who is older than Staal) or say Jeff Carter. If a big number one centre will solve the Habs quest for the Cup, why are you trying to find a bargain? Go big. Give up whatever it takes to add them and deal with the consequences later. Or maybe a big number one centre isn't a need so much as a desire?

A scoring center would be nice but I certainly have never been that hung up on it. We need a goal scorer. So when you have champagne tastes and a beer budget, you have to look at lower priced players. Hence Semin, he is a natural goal scorer, will come cheap on a one year deal, and you give up no assets. I mean we may not think this is the best solution, but it is the only one we can afford, and even that may be difficult.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

If Semin is the only answer, then there is no answer.

That said, we agree on the diagnosis. I can see the case for a stud C for sure, but it's going to be extremely hard to pull off, and I too have never been all that 'hung up on it.' To my mind the real issue is simply that we don't score enough. And the main we don't score enough - apart from a pathetic power-play - is because we can't sustain enough of a push from our somewhat mediocre forward configuration.

So we need a boost at FW. Whether that boost comes at W or C seems like a secondary issue, to me anyway.

Note that this is not to deny that we need to find someone who can replace Desharnais at C for the playoffs at least, because he has been demonstrated to struggle once the obstruction cranks up. It's just that his replacement doesn't HAVE to be a 90-point C - just someone who can be effective in the playoffs.

[habs rule]

If Semin is the only answer, then there is no answer.

That said, we agree on the diagnosis. I can see the case for a stud C for sure, but it's going to be extremely hard to pull off, and I too have never been all that 'hung up on it.' To my mind the real issue is simply that we don't score enough. And the main we don't score enough - apart from a pathetic power-play - is because we can't sustain enough of a push from our somewhat mediocre forward configuration.

So we need a boost at FW. Whether that boost comes at W or C seems like a secondary issue, to me anyway.

Note that this is not to deny that we need to find someone who can replace Desharnais at C for the playoffs at least, because he has been demonstrated to struggle once the obstruction cranks up. It's just that his replacement doesn't HAVE to be a 90-point C - just someone who can be effective in the playoffs.

I know you don't like Semin ( love that semin on his hands joke btw) but tell me who else is there that we can get without A) giving up assets we can't afford to lose and B) keep under the cap? I don't see an alternative, but I am certainly open to suggestions.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I know you don't like Semin ( love that semin on his hands joke btw) but tell me who else is there that we can get without A) giving up assets we can't afford to lose and B) keep under the cap? I don't see an alternative, but I am certainly open to suggestions.

Look, if we signed Semin, I wouldn't rip my hair out. But I'm working on the belief that character matters, and that you build a winning team with winning people, not with proven losers who don't compete or give a crap. Personally, I'd rather see what our young players can do; meanwhile, MB can keep sniffing around to see whether we can add a W somewhere down the line without selling the farm.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Look, if we signed Semin, I wouldn't rip my hair out. But I'm working on the belief that character matters, and that you build a winning team with winning people, not with proven losers who don't compete or give a crap. Personally, I'd rather see what our young players can do; meanwhile, MB can keep sniffing around to see whether we can add a W somewhere down the line without selling the farm.

I'm pretty of the same attitude. If he's signing with us he's getting his wrist checked (like Kassian had his back checked), Bergevin is deciding he'll be good for the season and the deal is good enough that he doesn't give us cap issues unlike an AHL youngster.

That said, I see nobody in free agency worth wasting a roster spot when we got kids with potential. The most would be Boyes and even then I'm like "eh". Or maybe Bergevin swings a trade where he moves Eller in a package for a superior LW to Galchenyuk and then fills the 3C spot with Eric Fehr for cheap. Both unlikely.

I am far more excited to see if Bud Holloway is everything he's cracked up to be, or if Christian Thomas has finally put it together, or if Daniel Carr was more than just a good AHL season, or if Sven Andrighetto can channel some Gally and secure a spot, or if Charlie Hudon proves he's the French Canadian Tomas Plekanec, or if Michael Bournival rebounds from his injury, or if Nikita Scherbak is our next young superstar already.

There's a ton of options there. We sign a free agent? We have one option and that's to hope they are better than our youngsters or else we look dumb.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I'm pretty of the same attitude. If he's signing with us he's getting his wrist checked (like Kassian had his back checked), Bergevin is deciding he'll be good for the season and the deal is good enough that he doesn't give us cap issues unlike an AHL youngster.

That said, I see nobody in free agency worth wasting a roster spot when we got kids with potential. The most would be Boyes and even then I'm like "eh". Or maybe Bergevin swings a trade where he moves Eller in a package for a superior LW to Galchenyuk and then fills the 3C spot with Eric Fehr for cheap. Both unlikely.

I am far more excited to see if Bud Holloway is everything he's cracked up to be, or if Christian Thomas has finally put it together, or if Daniel Carr was more than just a good AHL season, or if Sven Andrighetto can channel some Gally and secure a spot, or if Charlie Hudon proves he's the French Canadian Tomas Plekanec, or if Michael Bournival rebounds from his injury, or if Nikita Scherbak is our next young superstar already.

There's a ton of options there. We sign a free agent? We have one option and that's to hope they are better than our youngsters or else we look dumb.

I think the issue is that, in fans' minds, we don't have elite prospects, except maybe Scherbak who is perceived to be too young. There's no high-profile prospect at FW along the lines of Beaulieu or Tinordi at D, or Subban or Galchenyuk were in their day, to crank up the excitement of the hard-core Habs followers. So everyone is crying for a UFA signing. Lord knows, I am always cautious about assuming young players can step up and deliver, but you're right - we do seem to have a clutch of FW prospects who may not be future stars but who are surely worth a sustained look at camp or maybe beyond. I've seen enough guys come from nowhere (e.g., Pleks was not heralded, DD nobody believed in - I recall asking why the Bulldogs' leading point-getter was not being brought up and being told he would never be an NHLer - Halak was a bonus, and Gally was a shock at training camp). So personally, I'm comfortable, in the short term, with MB's apparent strategy of leaving a spot available for one of these guys rather than sign some 'meh' UFA. Remember, the roster doesn't have to be finalized until deadline day...plenty of time to make adjustments as the season grinds on.

[hab29RETIRED]

Problem with that is that a cost of a free agent dman or forward is pretty cheap this year. At the deadline we'll be giving up 2nd round picks or prospects. I'd rather sign a guy like Semin and also give the kids a long look. Best case scenario, a kid and Semin play well and bumps a veteran who has historically under performed and we never see Weisse on the second line again.

Worst case, it only causes us too lose minimal cap space.

I think the issue is that, in fans' minds, we don't have elite prospects, except maybe Scherbak who is perceived to be too young. There's no high-profile prospect at FW along the lines of Beaulieu or Tinordi at D, or Subban or Galchenyuk were in their day, to crank up the excitement of the hard-core Habs followers. So everyone is crying for a UFA signing. Lord knows, I am always cautious about assuming young players can step up and deliver, but you're right - we do seem to have a clutch of FW prospects who may not be future stars but who are surely worth a sustained look at camp or maybe beyond. I've seen enough guys come from nowhere (e.g., Pleks was not heralded, DD nobody believed in - I recall asking why the Bulldogs' leading point-getter was not being brought up and being told he would never be an NHLer - Halak was a bonus, and Gally was a shock at training camp). So personally, I'm comfortable, in the short term, with MB's apparent strategy of leaving a spot available for one of these guys rather than sign some 'meh' UFA. Remember, the roster doesn't have to be finalized until deadline day...plenty of time to make adjustments as the season grinds on.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I think the issue is that, in fans' minds, we don't have elite prospects, except maybe Scherbak who is perceived to be too young. There's no high-profile prospect at FW along the lines of Beaulieu or Tinordi at D, or Subban or Galchenyuk were in their day, to crank up the excitement of the hard-core Habs followers. So everyone is crying for a UFA signing. Lord knows, I am always cautious about assuming young players can step up and deliver, but you're right - we do seem to have a clutch of FW prospects who may not be future stars but who are surely worth a sustained look at camp or maybe beyond. I've seen enough guys come from nowhere (e.g., Pleks was not heralded, DD nobody believed in - I recall asking why the Bulldogs' leading point-getter was not being brought up and being told he would never be an NHLer - Halak was a bonus, and Gally was a shock at training camp). So personally, I'm comfortable, in the short term, with MB's apparent strategy of leaving a spot available for one of these guys rather than sign some 'meh' UFA. Remember, the roster doesn't have to be finalized until deadline day...plenty of time to make adjustments as the season grinds on.

It seems to me like Habs management is rooting for Carr to make it. I watched a YouTube of his goals on Hamilton and he can score from absolutely anywhere. His shot has deadly accuracy. I think they see him as a guy who could step in and score right away.

As for the "it won't cost the Habs much to sign a free agent" that depends. Leaving the kids to rot in the system cost the LA Kings some guy named Bud Holloway. Imagine we kept signing these past due vets and handing them roster spots only for a Hudon or Scherbak to say screw this and take off to Europe? You need to give them something to play for. It's hard to when they know before September there's no roster spot open because we just had to test some buyout veteran.

[habs rule]

Interesting arguments from everyone. Maybe a Carr can step in and score goals, that would be a bonus. However he hasn't played a single game in the NHL, very good college player, had a great 1st year in the Ahl, and I hope he challenges for a top 6 spot. However Le Genius will take his time with him and teach him the defensive game, so I think probably another year in AHL for him. I am all for giving the kids a shot but I am real tired of a team that can't score. The P/P is not good to say the least, but I attribute that more to coaching than talent. We really need another sniper to take pressure off of Patches. Our defensemen should not be our first line of offence. If we had another sniper it would mean that PK would not have to carry the puck into the opposition zone on an on going basis. Don't get me wrong I love watching him do it but it is on those forays that he makes most of his mistakes. He tries to do too much. Cause he is our offensive catalyst. If you guys are ok to trust next season a kid who has never played in the NHL and insn't named Crosby so be it. Myself I say nost of the kids are 1 year at least away. 1 year with a guy who is a pure goal scorer is to me a smart move. I think it is at least worth a shot, and a lot better one than Briere or Parenteau. But it is just my opinion. The next 2 to 3 years are going to be very interesting as these young guys come of age and are able to make the team and show us what they can do. I doubt, and I hope I am wrong, that it is this year.

[Toronthab]

I'm just glad my family name isn't Semin.

[PMAC]

You guys seem to obsessed with Semin.....oooh, that just sounds wrong....

Anyway, what about Eric Fehr? Big, decent scoring touch , no glaring character deficiencies like you know who... probably available at a bargin price. What's not to like?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

You guys seem to obsessed with Semin.....oooh, that just sounds wrong....

Anyway, what about Eric Fehr? Big, decent scoring touch , no glaring character deficiencies like you know who... probably available at a bargin price. What's not to like?

He's a third line centre. We currently have one first line centre (Plekanec), one top six scoring centre that's not ideal (Desharnais), one third line centre people believe could play second line centre better than DD (Eller) and one left winger people feel needs to play centre (Galchenyuk). Doesn't leave a lot of room.

If we traded Eller and DD to acquire a left winger to replace Galchenyuk so he could play centre, I could see picking up Fehr to play the third line centre role. Something like:

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher

FORWARD - Plekanec - Kassian

DLR - Fehr - DSP

Otherwise, we're moving two centres for... something and then adding Fehr.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Yes, the UFA market was thin to begin with and is now junk.

That leaves a trade as the only real option, other than relying on kids to step in.

Trades can occur at any time, up to deadline day. So I'm not all that worried about it at the moment. I see scoring as a problem MB has all year to solve. (And it must be said that the power play was unacceptable, and the coaches have to find a way to fix that).

I understand the argument that costs involved in trading spike upward as the year rolls on - so we MUST make a move before September. But I'm not sure that reality is quite that linear. Teams get injuries, teams struggle unexpectedly - i.e., stuff happens to create motivated sellers during the season; and that's a variable not in play in July.

So let the kids show their stuff for a few weeks, keeping a good antenna out for possible deals to be made, then reassess.

[habs rule]

Yes, the UFA market was thin to begin with and is now junk.

That leaves a trade as the only real option, other than relying on kids to step in.

Trades can occur at any time, up to deadline day. So I'm not all that worried about it at the moment. I see scoring as a problem MB has all year to solve. (And it must be said that the power play was unacceptable, and the coaches have to find a way to fix that).

I understand the argument that costs involved in trading spike upward as the year rolls on - so we MUST make a move before September. But I'm not sure that reality is quite that linear. Teams get injuries, teams struggle unexpectedly - i.e., stuff happens to create motivated sellers during the season; and that's a variable not in play in July.

So let the kids show their stuff for a few weeks, keeping a good antenna out for possible deals to be made, then reassess.

CC you have far more patience than I do. To me you strike while the iron is hot. Right now nobody is getting signed, so I am pretty sure that the few free agents of any value are getting pretty antsy. Most teams are either at their cap limit (be it self imposed or actual) or have 21 guys signed. There are not a lot of spots available. Eric fehr is a nice young Mennonite lad from Manitoba. Scoring touch? 33 points? I want a guy who can get 33 goals. Timely goals. This is very definitely a buyers market. Not much to buy but you can get some deals. Hence you can pick up Semin for cheap on a 1 year deal, put him on a line with Patches and see what happens. If he is as bad as you say bury him in the minors. If he gets 30 goals, it gives another year to let the kids percolate. He does play well on a 1 year deal. That he has proven. Just don't give him 5 years at 7 million cause then he is a POS.

You guys seem to obsessed with Semin.....oooh, that just sounds wrong....

Anyway, what about Eric Fehr? Big, decent scoring touch , no glaring character deficiencies like you know who... probably available at a bargin price. What's not to like?

Apparently I am the only one "obsessed" and we need to talk about something, cause it is boring waiting for stuff to happen.

[Guest Stogey24]

Not against Semin at all. Ive said it before too, put him in the press box or put him on waivers, if he becomes a distraction. I wouldn't do anything more than 1.5 mill on a one year though.

[habs rule]

Not against Semin at all. Ive said it before too, put him in the press box or put him on waivers, if he becomes a distraction. I wouldn't do anything more than 1.5 mill on a one year though.

exactly.

[nihilz]

I'd rather sign Stempniak if McCarron or Scherbak don't make the team.

I have a feeling Kevin Constantine did more for Scherbak's game than we realize.. and the the brass knows it.

[Guest Stogey24]

Stempniak. Good Lord.

We can't just draw names out of hat. Atleast Semin makes some sense, being that he's a wild card and could potentially put up some decent numbers

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Free Agents goals in past three seasons

Semin: 41 in 166

Stempniak: 36 in 191

Fehr: 41 in 189

Boyes: 45 in 204

Glencross: 40 in 149

Yup, Glenncross has the best GPG in the past three seasons out of the five. Even better than Semin. That's what you'd be trying to sign on a one year deal over a rookie/prospect. Are any of these guys worth the hassle?

[Guest Stogey24]

On a one year, absolutely. Boyes or Semin are who'd I'd be willing to take a flyer on

McCarron and Sherbak aren't ready. Andrigetto, Hudon, Thomas are all undersized players who most likely won't make a big enough impact this year to be promoted to a top 6 role.

[habs rule]

On a one year, absolutely. Boyes or Semin are who'd I'd be willing to take a flyer on

McCarron and Sherbak aren't ready. Andrigetto, Hudon, Thomas are all undersized players who most likely won't make a big enough impact this year to be promoted to a top 6 role.

yes i agree. I don't know what hassel there would be, you can bury them in the minors if need be.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The thing with Semin is, he's at best a one-year stop-gap anyway.

If he plays great - no matter how great - then you still can't sign him to the longer-term deal he'll want, because he is a proven bum who is only in it for the money; and any team that locks him up is going to be saddled with a cap millstone. So, after one good season, he will leave us for whichever team is dumb-assed enough to sign him.

If he plays badly, then he is no help to us - and possibly a hindrance to our efforts to sustain a winning team culture and a 'great room.'

Besides which, his playoff totals are iffy at best. Not a guy who shows up for the clutch games when we need offensive help the most.

So...maybe we should assume that Bergevin is interested, not in wasting $1-2 million signing a proven loser as a one-year patch-up job who probably won't help us in the playoffs anyway, but rather in trying to fix the hole in a convincing way on a longer-term basis?

[KoRP]

The thing with Semin is, he's at best a one-year stop-gap anyway.

If he plays great - no matter how great - then you still can't sign him to the longer-term deal he'll want, because he is a proven bum who is only in it for the money; and any team that locks him up is going to be saddled with a cap millstone. So, after one good season, he will leave us for whichever team is dumb-assed enough to sign him.

If he plays badly, then he is no help to us - and possibly a hindrance to our efforts to sustain a winning team culture and a 'great room.'

Besides which, his playoff totals are iffy at best. Not a guy who shows up for the clutch games when we need offensive help the most.

So...maybe we should assume that Bergevin is interested, not in wasting $1-2 million signing a proven loser as a one-year patch-up job who probably won't help us in the playoffs anyway, but rather in trying to fix the hole in a convincing way on a longer-term basis?

I like this line of thinking, I'm all for not signing Semin, period.

[ICEWATER77]

If Semin is the answer, then I'm not willing to ask the question. No thanks..I'd give the kids a legitimate shot before wasting money or a roster spot on a slacker. Maybe Carr will be our guy, who knows?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

If Semin is the answer, then I'm not willing to ask the question. No thanks..I'd give the kids a legitimate shot before wasting money or a roster spot on a slacker. Maybe Carr will be our guy, who knows?

Carr can score from anywhere. Holloway has been one of the best players in Europe for years now. Among all of the other possibilities.

It'll be interesting to see who steps up in camp. That NHL.com article by Basu got me wondering how much he knew about what the team thought about Carr.

Also Lefebvre calls him a smaller guy when he's six feet tall. That made me chuckle.