Commandant Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 So you get Kane..... and then you spend the next five years looking for a cheap number 1 defenceman. Seems like a lateral move at best to me... .heck i think its worse than that as I think the Dman is more valuable than the winger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Cammy wasn't alone in the 3 months of sucking and he said what the rest of us were thinking. Did he break the hockey players code of cliche responses? Absolutely. Did he shine a light on the fact the Habs were a mess and going nowhere and help facilitate change? Absolutely. I'm not gunna slag a player who was Montreal's best forward for the last 2 playoffs cause he was frustrated and spoke his mind, would be nice to see someone like Gomez care that much. OK, i will slag him for ya, he was a overpaid cull and cancer on team, wont miss the little egomaniac one bit and Bourque produces more goals at 1/2 the price + Holland is a good bottom six prospect + Calgary should finish out of playoffs and Habs 2nd pick should be fairly high one. I am not a fan of Cammalleri, so not quite unbiased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Cammy is an excellent offensive player who needs a quality PP to produce big numbers. The biggest thing that went wrong for him in Montreal was Markov getting injured; when you consider that Markov's excellence on the PP was a major reason behind his signing here, it's not hard to see where he decided he wanted out after two straight years of no Markov. We got crap return for our best offensive talent and top playoff scorer because Gauthier - in classic Montreal Canadiens fashion - decided to unload him on the cheap, with his value at its absolute lowest, after he caused a PR problem. A great example of a practice that we could afford to indulge in when we were an elite team, but which does serious damage when practiced by a bubble club. Add Cammy to the loooong list of bungled assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Cammy is an excellent offensive player who needs a quality PP to produce big numbers. The biggest thing that went wrong for him in Montreal was Markov getting injured; when you consider that Markov's excellence on the PP was a major reason behind his signing here, it's not hard to see where he decided he wanted out after two straight years of no Markov. We got crap return for our best offensive talent and top playoff scorer because Gauthier - in classic Montreal Canadiens fashion - decided to unload him on the cheap, with his value at its absolute lowest, after he caused a PR problem. A great example of a practice that we could afford to indulge in when we were an elite team, but which does serious damage when practiced by a bubble club. Add Cammy to the loooong list of bungled assets. Sad to say, was the high point of year for me (cept for draft) , when he was gone from the bench in that game and heard he was traded, what a relief to not have to watch softest guy in league do dick-all every game! Still love the trade and not sure what Calgary was thinkin, but then again why would they sign Wideman to that crazy contract and let Olliie walk. Neither they nor Canucks are building for the future, but Canucks are a contender and Calgary is lookin like the Leafs of the west. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Cammalleri getting traded mid-game was one of those moments that made me question being a Montreal Canadiens fan. I certainly didn't want to cheer for them anymore that season if the team was going to be run so incompetently. There was a lot of talk around the league of how unprofessional it was. Getting Bourque in the return was definitely Gauthier's attempt to get a guy who *might* rebound but is clearly looking to be on the downswing of his career. Holland was a good prospect pick up but we lost our best prospect goalie in the mix. The second round pick was a toss-in. The biggest part of losing Cammalleri is evident in this very thread. People want to sacrifice our best defensive asset to fill the LW spot in the top six, a spot which we lost by trading Mike Cammalleri and getting Rene Bourque in return. It's my belief that Bergevin is going to try Bourque in that role and hope Therrien can boot camp him into shape. We wouldn't be in this spot at all had Gauthier not been the second coming of Ronald Corey in that game against Boston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The way Cammalleri played the last season he would fit well on the bench/ahl with Scott Gomez this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The way Cammalleri played the last season he would fit well on the bench/ahl with Scott Gomez this season. Good to hear sir! but even as much as i dont like Squid, he aint in the Gomez catagory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankhab Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Yeah dunno, I'm sure Ducks & Jets fans would say the same about their guys for PK, we're dreaming if anyone thinks we'd get Stamkos or Tavares and we dont need Patrick Kane in a city like Montreal, he'd be eaten alive before the New Year. Howson apparently wants Del Zotto, Dubinsky & Kreider for Nash, by that logic Subban for a younger, cheaper version of Nash would look like a steal. Whnat I'm saying is that if we didn't get a player like Stamkos or Tavares, I wouldn't think about trading PK. In fact, I wouldn't even be looking to trade him, why would we? You don't trade you're premier talent just because they are tradable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoloCup Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 OK, i will slag him for ya, he was a overpaid cull and cancer on team, wont miss the little egomaniac one bit and Bourque produces more goals at 1/2 the price + Holland is a good bottom six prospect + Calgary should finish out of playoffs and Habs 2nd pick should be fairly high one. I am not a fan of Cammalleri, so not quite unbiased. Bourque had 5 goals in 38 GP, Cammy had 11 in 28 so might want to check your math there guy. As for the cancer, don't recall a single player saying a bad word before or after he left and doubt Calgary would've brought him back into the locker room if he was, most people don't go to the doctor to get the tumor put back in. Yes Holland MIGHT be a bottom six - similar to the 100 UFAs sitting waiting for a contract & yes the 2nd rounder should be a high one and in 5 years we MIGHT have someone to fill a top 6 forward, right now we got nothing in that trade to help us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The Cammy trade only made sense in hockey terms if, first, Bourque scored on a pace for 20+ goals and second, if we found some really impactful use for the $3 mil in cap savings. Neither of these has come to pass, unless you consider Prust + 5-goal-scoring Bourque fair return for Cammy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoloCup Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Whnat I'm saying is that if we didn't get a player like Stamkos or Tavares, I wouldn't think about trading PK. In fact, I wouldn't even be looking to trade him, why would we? You don't trade you're premier talent just because they are tradable. Hey I like PK and he is a premier talent but he's not a premier player - not yet. His game came around in the 2nd half but he still has a lot of growing up to do between scrapping with teammates, coaches, yapping, diving and slew footing. He needs to stick to playing hockey more and listen to his coaches to reach the next level - and that's were the concern comes. PK & Therrien won't be a mediocre existence - either it will be great for his development or a disaster and he'll be back in the pressbox. Throw in a potential contract issue if he wants to be paid as an elite guy and you have to at least explore other options. Having said that, seeing Howson get fleeced by Sather we should be able to keep PK and land a top 6 guy without giving him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The Cammy trade only made sense in hockey terms if, first, Bourque scored on a pace for 20+ goals and second, if we found some really impactful use for the $3 mil in cap savings. Neither of these has come to pass, unless you consider Prust + 5-goal-scoring Bourque fair return for Cammy. My entire point on bringing up Cammy was that we sold him at the worst possible time, and for the lowest possible value as to what he was worth. Unless you find a player with a similar situation, who is that far on the outs with his current management... a Bourque + 2nd + Weber package aint bringing you back a potential 30+ goal scorer of Cammy's caliber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Bourque had 5 goals in 38 GP, Cammy had 11 in 28 so might want to check your math there guy. As for the cancer, don't recall a single player saying a bad word before or after he left and doubt Calgary would've brought him back into the locker room if he was, most people don't go to the doctor to get the tumor put back in. Yes Holland MIGHT be a bottom six - similar to the 100 UFAs sitting waiting for a contract & yes the 2nd rounder should be a high one and in 5 years we MIGHT have someone to fill a top 6 forward, right now we got nothing in that trade to help us. The worst story on Cammalleri was that he requested to become captain, got turned down, played a bad game and Jacques Martin ripped him in practice for playing poorly when he wanted to be captain. At a Christmas party, they were doing gift exchange and Maxim Lapierre gave Mike Cammalleri a giant letter C. Cammalleri was allegedly very angry about it and stormed out. Aside from that, everyone liked him and most rumours of him being a "cancer" is unfounded. Cammalleri was very passionate about being a part of the Canadiens. Most players came out in support of Cammalleri's comments to the media about the team. Pierre Gauthier wanted him out because he pointed out the teams poor performance. It was also his way of making it up to Cunnyworth being tossed under a bus because Cam and Cunny clashed a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Bourque had 5 goals in 38 GP, Cammy had 11 in 28 so might want to check your math there guy. As for the cancer, don't recall a single player saying a bad word before or after he left and doubt Calgary would've brought him back into the locker room if he was, most people don't go to the doctor to get the tumor put back in. Yes Holland MIGHT be a bottom six - similar to the 100 UFAs sitting waiting for a contract & yes the 2nd rounder should be a high one and in 5 years we MIGHT have someone to fill a top 6 forward, right now we got nothing in that trade to help us. Still off topic and the last i will say on that ex-Hab My bottom line stat; Bourque has 72 goals over his last 3 years, Squid 65 goals at a significant extra cost. If still had Squid on the payroll, wouldnt even have the cap space to sign Subban to the contract he will get in the next month or so and would also still have 4 small forwards in the top 6, which aint a recipe for success. On Subban, no player is untradable, but he and Price are darn close and it would take a screaming deal to pry a fan favorite, 2nd year d-man who played 24+minutes and is the #1 d-man on team, from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Markov is our #1 dman, one of the best defensive dman in the league, one of the best offensive dman on the league, plus he is our longest serving Habs. If we trade Subban we can greatly improve a weakness up front. Kaberle can take Subban's place on the PP with Markov, and Emelin can play Subban's checking role. We also have Ellis, Tinordi and Beaulieu coming up in a few years. It's not like if trading Subban will deplete our D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Markov is our #1 dman, one of the best defensive dman in the league, one of the best offensive dman on the league, plus he is our longest serving Habs. If we trade Subban we can greatly improve a weakness up front. Kaberle can take Subban's place on the PP with Markov, and Emelin can play Subban's checking role. We also have Ellis, Tinordi and Beaulieu coming up in a few years. It's not like if trading Subban will deplete our D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Markov is our #1 dman, one of the best defensive dman in the league, one of the best offensive dman on the league, plus he is our longest serving Habs. If we trade Subban we can greatly improve a weakness up front. Kaberle can take Subban's place on the PP with Markov, and Emelin can play Subban's checking role. We also have Ellis, Tinordi and Beaulieu coming up in a few years. It's not like if trading Subban will deplete our D. No not just deplete the d-core, it would cripple it, he is almost irreplacable (without breaking the bank) and i see as "the" core skater on the team and the prospects you mention are years away, if ever, from playing 24minutes/game. Subban was scratched 1 game and what a difference, he was missed terribly, even this year if Subban ever gets injured it will be a killer, not as bad as a Price injury would be of course, but Bergevin would be scrambling to fill one huge hole. Markov is solid/smart defensively, but is by no means the defensive d-man that even Gorges is and no where near "best defensive d-man"; which is totally fine, cause he is super at the other end, moving the puck and makes all who play with him better. If you want to call Markov #1 is fine, but most would trade Markov long before Subban, wouldnt you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 No not just deplete the d-core, it would cripple it, he is almost irreplacable (without breaking the bank) and i see as "the" core skater on the team and the prospects you mention are years away, if ever, from playing 24minutes/game. Subban was scratched 1 game and what a difference, he was missed terribly, even this year if Subban ever gets injured it will be a killer, not as bad as a Price injury would be of course, but Bergevin would be scrambling to fill one huge hole. Markov is solid/smart defensively, but is by no means the defensive d-man that even Gorges is and no where near "best defensive d-man"; which is totally fine, cause he is super at the other end, moving the puck and makes all who play with him better. If you want to call Markov #1 is fine, but most would trade Markov long before Subban, wouldnt you? Just imagine the past two seasons without Subban. The mind reels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoloCup Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The worst story on Cammalleri was that he requested to become captain, got turned down, played a bad game and Jacques Martin ripped him in practice for playing poorly when he wanted to be captain. At a Christmas party, they were doing gift exchange and Maxim Lapierre gave Mike Cammalleri a giant letter C. Cammalleri was allegedly very angry about it and stormed out. Aside from that, everyone liked him and most rumours of him being a "cancer" is unfounded. Cammalleri was very passionate about being a part of the Canadiens. Most players came out in support of Cammalleri's comments to the media about the team. Pierre Gauthier wanted him out because he pointed out the teams poor performance. It was also his way of making it up to Cunnyworth being tossed under a bus because Cam and Cunny clashed a lot. Interesting story, makes sense now and shows Gauthiers insecurity and immaturity - not only running him out of town but refusing to give him his jersey that thankfully Molson set right. Montreal sorely lacked leadership last year, maybe cause Gionta was on the shelf or maybe cause he's not the right guy, for my money Gorges should've been named captain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Still off topic and the last i will say on that ex-Hab Did he refuse you an autograph or something? Even if Cammalleri, "had to go" you don't trade him with value at the lowest point. Gauthier could have waited at the deadline. He felt disrespected by Cammalleri going to the media and Cunnyworth and Cammalleri clashed. That's probably where the "cancer" rumours come from now that I think about it. Cammalleri called him a temporary coach and when Cam was traded, a media guy caught Cunnyworth saying, "Yeah, who's temporary now?" Which is funny in retrospect. Anyway they should have been men, sat down and talked it over. Meh, why am I even saying men. The NHL is a boys club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Did he refuse you an autograph or something? Even if Cammalleri, "had to go" you don't trade him with value at the lowest point. Gauthier could have waited at the deadline. He felt disrespected by Cammalleri going to the media and Cunnyworth and Cammalleri clashed. That's probably where the "cancer" rumours come from now that I think about it. Cammalleri called him a temporary coach and when Cam was traded, a media guy caught Cunnyworth saying, "Yeah, who's temporary now?" Which is funny in retrospect. Anyway they should have been men, sat down and talked it over. Meh, why am I even saying men. The NHL is a boys club. Maybe just Prima Donna envy on my part and when he is scoring all was good, but back to back shit production years and consistant lack of effort and terribly soft play put him on my bad side. And i was fine with the 'dont let the door hit your ass on ...." treatment; i just wanted him gone and he was. But in hindsight i agree, it was unprofessional and unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Hey Sather absolutely stole Nash from Columbus. I can't believe Howaon waited this long to make such a stupid trade. Co differing the seaso may. It exem start in October, there was. I hurry to make this deal. My entire point on bringing up Cammy was that we sold him at the worst possible time, and for the lowest possible value as to what he was worth. Unless you find a player with a similar situation, who is that far on the outs with his current management... a Bourque + 2nd + Weber package aint bringing you back a potential 30+ goal scorer of Cammy's caliber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Kaberle taking Subban's spot seriously????? The chances of Kaberle replacing Subban is even worse then the belief that Schneider would be able to make Chelios expandable. Markov is our #1 dman, one of the best defensive dman in the league, one of the best offensive dman on the league, plus he is our longest serving Habs. If we trade Subban we can greatly improve a weakness up front. Kaberle can take Subban's place on the PP with Markov, and Emelin can play Subban's checking role. We also have Ellis, Tinordi and Beaulieu coming up in a few years. It's not like if trading Subban will deplete our D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Hey Sather absolutely stole Nash from Columbus. I can't believe Howaon waited this long to make such a stupid trade. Co differing the seaso may. It exem start in October, there was. I hurry to make this deal. that is just cause of the trade clause... it really limited what he could do with Nash :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 My attitude towards a player with a NTC initiating a trade is that you wait and force the player to expand his list. If the guy wants out of town badly enough he will eventually expand the list. It's not like Dubinsky, the Russian guy or erixen are going to help make the Jackets a playoff team. You don't move someone when their value is low or you are dealing from a position of weakness. Sather also NEEDED to make this trade, given that the Rangers can't score and gaborik is out until December. Howaon after waiting 5 months, panicked foolishly in July in a year where they may be a lockout, when If the season does start in time, sather would probably be panicking in November. What really makes the deal so bad is that he picked up a guy in Dubinsky who is an all time low in his value and was included in every trade rumour surrounding the rangers. that is just cause of the trade clause... it really limited what he could do with Nash :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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