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2012-13 Habs lineup....the Defence


hankhab
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The habs have the revenue streams, and the players coming off their cap in the near future (Gomez, Kaberle, Markov, Gionta contracts all end in 2 years), to match any offer and then retaliate with a similar offer to that team’s key RFAs.

It is not a strategy that makes sense.

As I said in the article I wrote on the history of offer sheets. Historically the offer sheet happens in one of 2 scenarios.

1) a team is vulnerable, either you heavily front load the offer to hurt the recieving team’s ability to match as they are small market… or B you put a big cap hit on a player with a team who doesn’t have cap space.

2) Retaliation after someone messed with your players.

Thats it… those are the two reaasons the offer sheet is used.

PK doesn’t fit into situation 1 as the Habs have cash and cap space to match any realistic offer. Situation 2 is the reason you don’t mess with PK, you don’t want retaliation from a big market squad like Montreal.

Didn't read the article but Anaheim offering Fedorov doesn't exactly fit that and neither does NYR with Sakic

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Didn't read the article but Anaheim offering Fedorov doesn't exactly fit that and neither does NYR with Sakic

Do you mean Carolina's offer sheet on Fedorov? That was due to a GM rivalry. NYR offer sheeting Sakic was because they didn't think Colorado could afford it.

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Do you mean Carolina's offer sheet on Fedorov? That was due to a GM rivalry. NYR offer sheeting Sakic was because they didn't think Colorado could afford it.

Exactly, for Sakic, the Avs came up with their new arena plans + some out of the blue money to match this offer.

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Exactly, for Sakic, the Avs came up with their new arena plans + some out of the blue money to match this offer.

My favourite offer sheet signing was Ron Tugnutt. Since the offer was under $400K, Ottawa didn't have to give the Capitals anything. Tugnutt was a great platoon goalie for the Sens.

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Do you mean Carolina's offer sheet on Fedorov? That was due to a GM rivalry. NYR offer sheeting Sakic was because they didn't think Colorado could afford it.

Ya, meant Carolina.

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Didn't read the article but Anaheim offering Fedorov doesn't exactly fit that and neither does NYR with Sakic

Sakic was completely about preying on a vulnerable franchise. The Avalanche may have been a good team, but they were losing money because they were playing in the old and outdated McNicholls arena in Denver. They were two years away from the opening of the Pepsi Centre. The Rangers not only offered him a then unheard of amount of 21 million over 3 years, they also made the deal very difficult to match for Colorado in making it a 15 million dollar signing bonus and then 2 million per season in salary. Somehow the Avs came up with the cash to match.

Carolina offered Fedorov... it fits in Category 2, the revenge move. Only the revenge here was over the very bitter fight that Mike Illitch and Peter Karmanos were having in the Michigan Business Community at the time.

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Reports MB offered PK 2 yr/$5.5MM 'show me' contract offer like Price's

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=402069

Realize it's just negotiating tactics but if that's true, as rare as an offer sheet is, got to believe desperate teams like Philly, Detroit and even the Preds are watching this closely to see if there's an opportunity to pry him away with a longer term deal in the 5 yr/$30MM setting compensation at a 1st, 2nd & 3rd

Habs would most likely still match but my guess is that's a whole lot more than they're hoping to pay on a unproven product based on the starting bid.

Edited by RedSoloCup
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Preaching to the choir

I would've capped him at $3.5MM/yr on a 2 yr deal but I'm sure PK has watched the stupid money a potential one year wonder like Harrison got from the Nucks cause they were desperate and is looking for a bigger payday especially in advance of the new CBA

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Come on guys, forget an offer sheet. MB is likely offering a small 2 year deal just as he offered to Emelin, Diaz, etc...If a team wants to come in and offer PK $5-6 million then they will do so and it will be for 7-10 years and MB will within an hour simply match whats being offered and secure Subban as a lifelong Hab.

Options here are 2-3 years at a lower dollar value or 6+ years at a slightly higher level. Either way Subban will remain a Hab so we all have to relax.

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I know it's different situations - ufa vs rfa, but there is something wrong when Proust gets offered the same or more money then Subban.

IMO, why aggregate a guy who is going to be part of your core. Fair offer would have been $3.5m. Frankly if I'm MB I offer Subban same type of deal the islanders gave Tavares.

Come on guys, forget an offer sheet. MB is likely offering a small 2 year deal just as he offered to Emelin, Diaz, etc...If a team wants to come in and offer PK $5-6 million then they will do so and it will be for 7-10 years and MB will within an hour simply match whats being offered and secure Subban as a lifelong Hab.

Options here are 2-3 years at a lower dollar value or 6+ years at a slightly higher level. Either way Subban will remain a Hab so we all have to relax.

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It does seem slightly puzzling. Of course, in a normal negotiation, you do go in low and work up to a fair all-around deal. The risk is in alienating the player.

The Habs' argument must be that even though Subban has been our number one defencemen for two years running, this was an artificial situation created by injuries to Markov; that he's not yet a true #1 defenceman (which I think is correct), and that he needs to take a shorter-term deal that will cover the period of his ongoing maturtation into that. Subban, on the other hand, rightly sees himself as the team's #1 defenceman and wants a deal reflecting that.

I worry that it would be a mistake to give Subban a huge deal at this juncture. You have to be careful about over-rewarding a young hotshot with an outsized ego like that...it can become a factor affecting his development. The message a player like PK requires, over and over, is 'you have to earn what you get.' Giving him $5 mil right now completely undercuts that message.

Even worse, if the two sides are far apart, this could drag on into training camp - assuming we have a camp - and missing camp in turn tends to lead to injuries and substandard performance as the player scrambles to catch up.

So, lots to fret about here, not just the slightly remote risk of some jerk GM swooping in with an offer sheet.

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Alot iof people on here are over rating Subban's year. Yes he was the habs best dman overall. But that isn't saying much. The numbers that were floated around online were wrong according to the sides.

Subban is not worth 5-6 mill a year. He has not earned that contract yet. I think he will one day but not today. 3-4 per year is a fair deal based on his numbers. It's not like he is Weber, Suter or the other top guys.

Why is everyone worried about a team stealing him? No one will offer Subban that much money or term. he hasn't proven much.

Pk has really no options and if he doesn't sign he is only hurting his own efforts. MB will offer him a fair deal.

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I know it's different situations - ufa vs rfa, but there is something wrong when Proust gets offered the same or more money then Subban.

IMO, why aggregate a guy who is going to be part of your core. Fair offer would have been $3.5m. Frankly if I'm MB I offer Subban same type of deal the islanders gave Tavares.

Was it puzzling when Pacioretty signed for less than $2 million? Some teams give huge money to players coming off their ELC but Montreal has never done that. Pacioretty under $2 million, Price under $3 million........why change course and all of a sudden offer Subban $3.5 or more.

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Funny world these guys live in when a 300% raise is considered lowballing but everyone's been pumping PKs tires the last 2 years so it's to be expected.

2 year/$5.5 MM (yes agent denies, why wouldn't he since he also reps Del Zotto - haven't heard denial from MB) is a fair deal and Habs have precedence on their side, Subban is probably pointing to deals Yandle, Seabrook, Staal, Myers signed coming off ELC - he's not as good but media/fans have made him out to be so he thinks he is so this will probably drag out as Subbans only leverage is to sit out.

Then there's the Lowe factor - desperate GM offers a 1000% raise for 4 years for a rookie Dustin Penner - yes matching put the Ducks over the cap but you don't think Burke would've found a way if it was Getzlaf or Perry being poached? The fact we have cap space and lots of money shouldn't make Subban priceless

There's always an idiot GM out there, otherwise there wouldn't be really any problems with the current CBA.

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as my friend pierre guathier ( i think i threw up in mouth a little just saying his name) sez Mr subban needs to be carefull because if he holds out there is a very real possibility that the new cba may kick him in the ass. Lets say that for sure it will be a tighter cba and guys like him will have fewer options. I love pk and want him to sign in Montreal, BUT he has to be reasonable, i think 3 mill for 3 years is great or maybe 4 mill for 5 years just a thought.

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as my friend pierre guathier ( i think i threw up in mouth a little just saying his name) sez Mr subban needs to be carefull because if he holds out there is a very real possibility that the new cba may kick him in the ass. Lets say that for sure it will be a tighter cba and guys like him will have fewer options. I love pk and want him to sign in Montreal, BUT he has to be reasonable, i think 3 mill for 3 years is great or maybe 4 mill for 5 years just a thought.

Well, I think most of us agree that the Habs' offer is lowball. In that sense, it's only natural that PK rejected it. The real issue is what he expects to get. If he's thinking, 3.5-4 mil, then he's being perfectly reasonable.

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Well, I think most of us agree that the Habs' offer is lowball. In that sense, it's only natural that PK rejected it. The real issue is what he expects to get. If he's thinking, 3.5-4 mil, then he's being perfectly reasonable.

Why lowball, i totally disagree?

Price took $2.75 for 2 years, why would the exact same offer be a lowball, a #1 goalie is a bit more important than a d-man isnt he and Cary wasnt bitching about being underpaid?

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Why lowball, i totally disagree?

Price took $2.75 for 2 years, why would the exact same offer be a lowball, a #1 goalie is a bit more important than a d-man isnt he and Cary wasnt bitching about being underpaid?

price did sign that contract about a few days before training camp

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To be fair Carey's only leverage coming out of his ELC was the Habs traded Jaro 1st, Price had a pretty crappy contract year

PK, Carlson, Del Zotto and Kulikov seem to be in a holding pattern so I'm not panicking. With Mezaros out now also for Philly an offer sheet has to be on their mind given what people want in trades and a weak 2013 UFA market where Douglas Murray and Edler along with a bunch of vets are about it.

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To be fair Carey's only leverage coming out of his ELC was the Habs traded Jaro 1st, Price had a pretty crappy contract year

PK, Carlson, Del Zotto and Kulikov seem to be in a holding pattern so I'm not panicking. With Mezaros out now also for Philly an offer sheet has to be on their mind given what people want in trades and a weak 2013 UFA market where Douglas Murray and Edler along with a bunch of vets are about it.

Price crappy? oh you have done it now!!!! hahaha people on here think he can do no wrong
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Price crappy? oh you have done it now!!!! hahaha people on here think he can do no wrong

naw he did have a crappy contract year. but he has been excellent since.

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I know it's different situations - ufa vs rfa, but there is something wrong when Proust gets offered the same or more money then Subban. IMO, why aggregate a guy who is going to be part of your core. Fair offer would have been $3.5m. Frankly if I'm MB I offer Subban same type of deal the islanders gave Tavares.

THat would be my view as well. We do want to keep good will, rather than my people talking to your people....

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