Habsfan84 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 By now I'm sure everyone has heard of this. If you missed it here's a minor quote and the link. They are also trying this in Alberta. The team's players have hired Montreal-based lawyer Michael Cohen, who sent a cease and desist letter to the Habs owners and the NHL on Friday. They're claiming it would be unlawful for the players to be locked out -- something the league plans to do if a new collective bargaining agreement isn't reached by Sunday -- because the NHLPA isn't certified by the Quebec Labour Board. Under Quebec law, a union must have that certification for an employer to enact a lockout, according to the NHLPA. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404929 Since the board is pretty dead we might as well talk about it. Assuming the ruling is that the Habs cant be locked out here are a few Questions - Does this affect the rest of the NHL lockout? - Will this help attract players to Montreal in the future since they will be guaranteed their money? - Will this create a rift between the Molsons and the players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 This was also tried in Toronto and I believe was dismissed pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I can't pretend to be a lawyer or even play one on TV, but it seems to me that if there is a legal case here, it's centred on Quebec law; and therefore it's hard to see how it would apply to the rest of the NHL. The scenario we're left with is thus one where the Habs can't lock their players out, but the other 29 teams can and do. So then what? Is Molson thereby obliged to pay the players whether they actually suit up or not? If so, can we contemplate the bizarrely amusing scenario of the Habs being forced to lug their sorry asses all over Quebec playing 'exhibition games' against whatever ragtag opponents they can find, so that Molson can recoup some of his losses? I love it. It's totally absurd. Plus it's our best shot at a winning record this year. I suppose the real point is to force the Montreal Canadiens ownership over to the side of wanting a deal rather than mindlessly supporting the NHL's bad-faith union-breaking - thus creating an important rift in the united front. Here's betting things from here get more weird rather than less. Remember the last lock-out and the attempt to prise onwership of the Stanley Cup away from the NHL? Good times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I have a feeling Geoff wants a season and this is just going to make him want a season more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 So if the Habs just show up for every scheduled game and the other teams fail to show because they are locked out can we claim a forfiet win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 This is all a divide and conquer strategy by the NHLPA. Get Molson, and the two Alberta owners to not support a lockout. They are already proposing increased revenue sharing to try and get the small market teams on their side. The more division in the ownership group the better for the NHLPA, and vice versa for the players staying united vs the owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Edmonton and Calgary won't be locked out either. The NHL dropped the lockout before it could be reviewed. I heard it on the radio on my way to work this afternoon as I live in Edmonton. As of right now there are 3 teams in the NHL that will not be locked out http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2012/09/league-calls-nhlpas-labour-board-plights-a-joke.html "The grounds for the challenge in Quebec differ from the one in Alberta. Under Alberta labour law, the NHL cannot hold a lockout vote unless it has first requested a mediator. The league did request a mediator and the province appointed one on Aug. 21. But the NHLPA argued in its challenge that the league showed no willingness to participate in the mediation. The Alberta Board cancelled the hearing scheduled for Tuesday morning on the NHLPA’s challenge when the NHL apparently withdrew its claim against the union’s filing." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 A look inside the Strategy of the NHL and the NHLPA in this labor dispute. http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/09/13/divide-and-conquer-the-strategy-of-the-nhlpa-in-this-labour-dispute/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Nice article. I really hate the owners and Betman more each day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Nice article. I really hate the owners and Betman more each day. Agree about article and owners, but Betman is irrelevant and simply owner's puppet. If the networks would just air more CHL/AHL/NCAA games, i would hardly miss NHL, With no trap, the CHL is almost more entertaining hockey. I wonder if Markov/Yemelin/Plekanec/Eller/Kaberle/Diaz/Weber etc are almost looking forward to playing at home, even at a pay cut for 1 seaosn? With last lock out at least Habs got lucky and were able to draft franchise goalie, if get to draft high again maybe nab Drouin or a Lazar? This years version of Habs is predicted to miss playoffs, so might not be missing much? It would be interesting if the courts do rule with NHLPA in Quebec/Alberta, but i assume it is highly unlikely? But, i still think season will only be delayed. But one thing is for sure, the CHL kicks off in 1 week and lots of Hab prospects to follow from coast to coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan84 Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Just one more point that I want to bring up. If the Habs in fact cant be locked out and the rest of the NHL goes on lockout, does that mean that the Habs players will not be eligible to play over seas? If the lockout is a full year, we could have a team that has not played a game for a full year when the NHL returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Just one more point that I want to bring up. If the Habs in fact cant be locked out and the rest of the NHL goes on lockout, does that mean that the Habs players will not be eligible to play over seas? If the lockout is a full year, we could have a team that has not played a game for a full year when the NHL returns. The Habs plays can go overseas to play as there is no KHL-NHL formal agreement in exchanging players. There are rules each league has in place to prevent it, but no actual NHL and KHL agreement that prevents it. As was the case with Radulov. He left the NHL while on his entry-level contract so all the NHL had in place was to suspend his contract until when/if he returned. I'm not sure the circumstances of him leaving the KHL so I have no idea what they have in place to dissuade players from leaving for the NHL. That being said, if the habs players go overseas their contract in the NHL will be suspended. They would need to determine if it is indeed worth going overseas as many probably won't be making the same money overseas as they do here. As far as I know the AHL isn't going to be suspended so they could play in the AHL and still be paid their full contracts. EDIT: The Bulldogs would be beasts in the AHL with NHL players playing on their roster. Would do a lot for the confidence of some of our key players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 EDIT: The Bulldogs would be beasts in the AHL with NHL players playing on their roster. Would do a lot for the confidence of some of our key players. I'm waiting to see what the final rosters look like but right now I'm of the opinion that a lockout would do more harm than good for Hamilton, a team that I'm already leery about when it comes to playoff potential. Sure they'd add some players who otherwise might not be there but the players that their division and conference rivals are adding are quite significant as well. On topic, Friday is a big day as that's when the PA's case will be made to the Labour Board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I'm waiting to see what the final rosters look like but right now I'm of the opinion that a lockout would do more harm than good for Hamilton, a team that I'm already leery about when it comes to playoff potential. Sure they'd add some players who otherwise might not be there but the players that their division and conference rivals are adding are quite significant as well. On topic, Friday is a big day as that's when the PA's case will be made to the Labour Board. The difference between the Bulldogs and the other teams is Montreal can send down their 1-way contracts and they will be paid as 1-way contracts do not involve a minor league clause. All the 2-way have a minor league clause so even if the NHL salary is suspended due to a lockout, the AHL salary is still a viable option, even if it is dramatically less. In short, if a 1-way contracted player from any of the 27 teams locked out is sent to the AHL, they will not be paid a dime because their contract is suspended. Other AHL teams may stock up on 2-way contracted talents from NHL teams, but the Bulldogs will be able to use the entire NHL roster because they will be getting paid their NHL contracts regardless of the lockout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 The difference between the Bulldogs and the other teams is Montreal can send down their 1-way contracts and they will be paid as 1-way contracts do not involve a minor league clause. All the 2-way have a minor league clause so even if the NHL salary is suspended due to a lockout, the AHL salary is still a viable option, even if it is dramatically less. In short, if a 1-way contracted player from any of the 27 teams locked out is sent to the AHL, they will not be paid a dime because their contract is suspended. Other AHL teams may stock up on 2-way contracted talents from NHL teams, but the Bulldogs will be able to use the entire NHL roster because they will be getting paid their NHL contracts regardless of the lockout. You're correct that they'd be paid their NHL salary but waiver rules would still apply here to the best of my knowledge meaning that the majority of the players can't go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 You're correct that they'd be paid their NHL salary but waiver rules would still apply here to the best of my knowledge meaning that the majority of the players can't go down. Even if you were able to sneak somebody through, I believe that they would have to clear waivers going back up, say if the NHL got going? What ever happened to the policy that if you picked someone off waivers, they hadto go on an NHL roster? Dlbair these are questions not statements, feel free to clarify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Even if you were able to sneak somebody through, I believe that they would have to clear waivers going back up, say if the NHL got going? What ever happened to the policy that if you picked someone off waivers, they hadto go on an NHL roster? Dlbair these are questions not statements, feel free to clarify. The players that are going down now also have a re-entry waiver amnesty as part of this special agreement. Those not sent down during this period (by the way, I've yet to see anything that says the Habs are attempting to send anyone down*) would, as far as I know, be subject to regular re-entry waiver procedures when the CBA gets signed. As for players being plucked off waivers and having to go onto an NHL roster, that's the case the majority of the time. There is, however, some sort of exception. I don't have the specifics memorized but I think it's along the lines of as follows: Habs waive Player A, claimed by Nashville (or any other single team), no other team submits a claim. Nashville later re-waives Player A, claimed by Montreal, no other team submits a claim. If memory serves me right, this is the exact situation that happened in 2002 with Francis Bouillon who, after being re-claimed by Montreal, was sent to the AHL immediately thereafter. It might have happened to Ben Maxwell this year too, he had an odd journey through the waiver wire. Such circumstances are quite rare, though. * Even if the Habs haven't filed the paperwork for Palushaj, St-Denis, Blunden, and Desjardins to go down now, all but Blunden are eligible to sign AHL deals as all were on Clear Day rosters and finished the season with Hamilton/Lake Erie. At least that's my interpretation of this whole thing. Edit: Right after typing this, Blunden hit the waiver wire. That suggests to me the Habs will go the AHL deal with the other three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 The players that are going down now also have a re-entry waiver amnesty as part of this special agreement. Those not sent down during this period (by the way, I've yet to see anything that says the Habs are attempting to send anyone down*) would, as far as I know, be subject to regular re-entry waiver procedures when the CBA gets signed. As for players being plucked off waivers and having to go onto an NHL roster, that's the case the majority of the time. There is, however, some sort of exception. I don't have the specifics memorized but I think it's along the lines of as follows: Habs waive Player A, claimed by Nashville (or any other single team), no other team submits a claim. Nashville later re-waives Player A, claimed by Montreal, no other team submits a claim. If memory serves me right, this is the exact situation that happened in 2002 with Francis Bouillon who, after being re-claimed by Montreal, was sent to the AHL immediately thereafter. It might have happened to Ben Maxwell this year too, he had an odd journey through the waiver wire. Such circumstances are quite rare, though. * Even if the Habs haven't filed the paperwork for Palushaj, St-Denis, Blunden, and Desjardins to go down now, all but Blunden are eligible to sign AHL deals as all were on Clear Day rosters and finished the season with Hamilton/Lake Erie. At least that's my interpretation of this whole thing. Edit: Right after typing this, Blunden hit the waiver wire. That suggests to me the Habs will go the AHL deal with the other three. In your scenerio with Cube, what was the point of Canadians reclaiming if he stays on the original claimant's (Nashville's) farm team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 In your scenerio with Cube, what was the point of Canadians reclaiming if he stays on the original claimant's (Nashville's) farm team? He didn't stay with Nashville's farm, he went to Hamilton. I should've specified that earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 He didn't stay with Nashville's farm, he went to Hamilton. I should've specified that earlier. I thought you were trying to give me an example of an exception to the rule were an original claiming team put their claim in the minors. It stands to reason that the Cube could be sent to minors by Montreal because they had just done that exercise needed to send someone down. You can see that this could be a tool to block better teams from getting a shot at your pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 So the lockout will be legal in Quebec...for now. The Labour Board has left the door open for another hearing down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 What a joke. I'm going to start to get depressed in about 24.5 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHIW_HWL Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 So the lockout will be legal in Quebec...for now. The Labour Board has left the door open for another hearing down the road. Completely the correct decision to make the lockout legal, if Quebec doesn't lock out the Habs, there goes any hope for the Nordiques returning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Decision just shows that Quebec clearly has the most corrupt government in north America. Completely the correct decision to make the lockout legal, if Quebec doesn't lock out the Habs, there goes any hope for the Nordiques returning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 So the lockout will be legal in Quebec...for now. The Labour Board has left the door open for another hearing down the road. Correction: The lockout will start in Quebec. Its legality and whether backpay will be owed will be determined at a later date. Max's look at CBA negotiations and the battle that has begun http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/09/15/cba-talks-get-tense-nhl-vs-nhlpa-and-fan-vs-fan/# My look at recent NHL contracts signed by teams in the last weeks before the lockout http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/09/15/nhl-last-minute-signings-hypocrisy-or-smart-business/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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