Guest Stogey24 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 It's nice to Emelin starting to skate the Puck up. That goal last night is goingto be huge for him I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 He's a good player, he just needs confidence to trust the knee. Its a mental hurdle many guys have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 He's a good player, he just needs confidence to trust the knee. Its a mental hurdle many guys have. Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Have any of you who are so down on PK asked yourselves WHY he is playing like this. I agree he has not been the PK that we all know. If you keep shooting Kennedy's they get a little gun shy. OK a bad joke. Since we see that Markov has 59 giveaways and some of those have resulted in bad goals and have definitely cost us games. MT has been benching him right? Yeah not so much. PK was a lot better last year and the first part of this year, has the constant negativity from MT finally got to him? Would he welcome a trade elsewhere? MT is not a good coach, he believes that when we win it was his game plan that did it, when we lose PK screwed up. Well if Mr Carey Price were not in net this team would be in last place. Stephen Waite was our best off season acquisition. Now if MB could apply that solution to the head coach we would have a lot better chance of winning. I still say you do not humiliate your best defenceman on a continual basis, it cannot bear good fruit. Having your best defenceman afraid to make a move is bad. And he was on the ice for too long when he made that screwup. He didn't chase the guy down cause he had nothing left. He has a lot of heart but sometimes he simply tries to do too much. This will get you in trouble more times than not. He is a Thoroughbred and needs to be treated as such. Maybe a little encouragement might be the betterplan. We must remember that MT didn't like PK long before he became coach, sounds like Tremblay again eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Is he worth 8 mill is the final question Absolutely. I am not really down on PK. The kid is incredible. Best skater we''ve had since Lafleur. I just thought he had an off night last night and hasn't looked himself in the last 9 or 10 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I have always agreed with Hal Gill's assessment: "you don't 'fix' PK Subban." Unfortunately, he has been saddled with a coach who seems to think his mission is to do precisely that. It's incredibly frustrating, and while I don't believe this will be the end point, I would not be shocked to see the following scenario: PK struggles, his relations with the coaches worsen, pretty soon he becomes a "problem" and hey presto, he's gone - to the satisfaction of many fans who will by then have grown tired of Subban messing up. As for whether Subban is worth $8 mil, the question is ridiculous. Of COURSE he is. He is a superstar, and the only people who can't figure it out seem to be our management and coaches. Therrien should be asked one very important question, which is why NONE of our young players have shown any progression this season and why, indeed, several key players - Subban, Eller, and Emelin - have clearly regressed under his tutelage. (And don't give me this "Eller's defensive game has improved" crap. If I wanted 3 points in 30 defensively-responsible games I could go out and sign Glen Metropolit). If he cannot make our youth better, then he should be run out of town on a rail, period. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Therrien should be asked one very important question, which is why NONE of our young players have shown any progression this season and why, indeed, several key players - Subban, Eller, and Emelin - have clearly regressed under his tutelage. (And don't give me this "Eller's defensive game has improved" crap. If I wanted 3 points in 30 defensively-responsible games I could go out and sign Glen Metropolit). If he cannot make our youth better, then he should be run out of town on a rail, period. Alex Galchenyuk is better, Max Pacioretty is better, Carey Price is better, Ryan White is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Price and Patches are NHL veterans. Galy is hard to assess. That leaves White. Whoop-de-doo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 PK struggles, his relations with the coaches worsen, pretty soon he becomes a "problem" and hey presto, he's gone - to the satisfaction of many fans who will by then have grown tired of Subban messing up. If Subban had anything close to the selfishness his detractors say he does, I would see this as a strong possibility. But he always says the right thing to the media, with the exception of the time he called out the refs (and I'm with him there - the rarity with which he draws penalties does seem personal). I'm waiting for PK to sign a big deal that will make his place among the top NHL defensemen even more official; maybe then he'll start getting some more respect and slack from management, coaches, refs, etc. It's a function of skin colour and flashy play that his merit is always doubted at the slightest pretext - can you imagine if he was involved in a bizarrely hushed-up car accident, à la Toews, or accused of rape, like Doughty? Somehow those guys never get their 'good Canadian boy' cards revoked or even questioned, but Subban has to toe the line fastidiously just to sit at the table. It's hard to pin the regression of key players at anyone's feet other than Therrien's. He coaches like he's afraid to lose. And perhaps, with only another year on his contract, that's his mindset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 what a great interview on tsn690 with nolan and subban.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Alex Galchenyuk is better, Max Pacioretty is better, Carey Price is better, Ryan White is better. Galch is a kid who will have ups and downs, better? not yet. Patches is not better he is the same or not quite as good as last couple of years. Carey is not MT coached (thank God) he is coached by Stephane Waite who as I said earlier was our best off season acquisition. Ryan White is better but like Tony Marinaro said you have to look hard to find any guys that are better than last year. Prust? no way. Eller? no way. DD has come around lately and is making MB look like a genius for signing him, but he has to have Patches with him or back to doldrums we go. So I guess MT can coach 4th liners which is what he wants them all to be. I say lets promote him to asst coach in hamilton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Galch is a kid who will have ups and downs, better? not yet. Patches is not better he is the same or not quite as good as last couple of years. Carey is not MT coached (thank God) he is coached by Stephane Waite who as I said earlier was our best off season acquisition. Ryan White is better but like Tony Marinaro said you have to look hard to find any guys that are better than last year. Prust? no way. Eller? no way. DD has come around lately and is making MB look like a genius for signing him, but he has to have Patches with him or back to doldrums we go. So I guess MT can coach 4th liners which is what he wants them all to be. I say lets promote him to asst coach in hamilton. There is a 'Fire Therrien' thread. Bad coaching! Sure wish we had that Babcock guy....opps sorry he is another you guys all also called an ' idiot' who made 'moronic' decisions. But the team isn't winning, I mean look at the Habs record since he took over it just sucks......., and the year before Therrien, the team was such a frickin powerhouse and he is driving that well-oiled machine into the ground....what a dumbass. But, but, but what about Galchenyuk, he isn't gonna score 30 goals and Subban is only on 52point pace, he is being freakin ruined and will be a shell of a man by the summer! Sorry, I mean a very wealthy shell of a man. The sky is fallin....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 There is a 'Fire Therrien' thread. Bad coaching! Sure wish we had that Babcock guy....opps sorry he is another you guys all also called an ' idiot' who made 'moronic' decisions. But the team isn't winning, I mean look at the Habs record since he took over it just sucks......., and the year before Therrien, the team was such a frickin powerhouse and he is driving that well-oiled machine into the ground....what a dumbass. But, but, but what about Galchenyuk, he isn't gonna score 30 goals and Subban is only on 52point pace, he is being freakin ruined and will be a shell of a man by the summer! Sorry, I mean a very wealthy shell of a man. The sky is fallin....... Hey if you are happy with the way things are going. Good. I am not. If you think we deserved 3 points in the last 2 games . Good. I think we got lucky and won in spite of ourselves. We each of us have our own opinnions and are not required to agree. But Don you going to hurt yourself with that hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Don, you do a great Chicken Little, although I agree that Therrien isn't as big of a problem as some of the line up is.....and the line up wins more than they lose, he isn't making a lot of sense on everything he does, player development is going to take longer than Therrien's tenure..... which may not be much longer than this season. Habs Rule, I think you're right, we won in spite of ourselves.... I just wish we could stop playing dump and chase..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Hey if you are happy with the way things are going. Good. I am not. If you think we deserved 3 points in the last 2 games . Good. I think we got lucky and won in spite of ourselves. We each of us have our own opinnions and are not required to agree. But Don you going to hurt yourself with that hammer. Problem is and will always be that some of you (I am intentionally using "you" because I don't fit in this category) think that teams win all their games fair and square, because they outplayed their opponent. Guess what, it is not like that. It's not 1970's anymore. There is no such teams as the Habs of the good old days that win 75% of their games. Chicago, Boston, Anaheim, name it. They all win some games by luck or flukes. It's hockey. We fought hard to get the late goal against Detroit. We did score 5 goals against Pittsburgh. Budaj stoped Crosby, Neal AND Malkin. The 3 points are ours and we deserved them. It's hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Hey if you are happy with the way things are going. Good. I am not. If you think we deserved 3 points in the last 2 games . Good. I think we got lucky and won in spite of ourselves. We each of us have our own opinnions and are not required to agree. But Don you going to hurt yourself with that hammer. I am 'pleased' with state of habs roster/mgmt and got few complaints. And with so many being 'over the top' on Therrien bashing, is fair for someone to be the opposite, no? And just dont see why the 'negativity', win or lose dosent matter, just seems neverending. I get, there is lots of debatable stuff for sure, but 'tar and feather' Therrien seems a bit uncalled to me. Unless team was tanking and sinking, when predicted to contend in the fall, then i might be on-board with my torch and pitchfork as well. Didnt Gallagher-Galchenyuk develop OK last year and Subban, correct me if wrong, was voted best d-man? not bad for Therrien and crew. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 This discussion got started over how PK was being treated by MT. It spread from there. Do I think MT is a good coach no. Never have been a fan. I have had serious reservations about how PK is being treated, and have spoken of it many times. I fear that we will lose him for no good reason other than a coach's ego. I still wonder what it was that PK went to talk to MB about? Am I happy with where the club is in the standings right now? You bet. Do I think that is because of MT ? nope. I think we have been lucky at times, but the biggest reason we are where we are is carey price. Without him we are in last place. Ask yourself then How good a coach is MT. Our offensive stats are really not good. 5 on 5 scoring? check it out. Our powerplay started out like a house on fire but now not so much. Our coaching staff have no answer to the oposition pressuring the points. Isn't that their job? I think Patches said it best, if we are the best in the league at shot blocking, it is not a good thing, it means we are playing in our end and we don't have the puck. Shouldn't the coaching staff realize that? Anyway there will be no changes until an extended losing streak, at which time he will be fired. This may occur soon. Mind you some people say I would rather be lucky than good. Dosen't usually work in hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 If Subban had anything close to the selfishness his detractors say he does, I would see this as a strong possibility. But he always says the right thing to the media, with the exception of the time he called out the refs (and I'm with him there - the rarity with which he draws penalties does seem personal). I'm waiting for PK to sign a big deal that will make his place among the top NHL defensemen even more official; maybe then he'll start getting some more respect and slack from management, coaches, refs, etc. It's a function of skin colour and flashy play that his merit is always doubted at the slightest pretext - can you imagine if he was involved in a bizarrely hushed-up car accident, à la Toews, or accused of rape, like Doughty? Somehow those guys never get their 'good Canadian boy' cards revoked or even questioned, but Subban has to toe the line fastidiously just to sit at the table. It's hard to pin the regression of key players at anyone's feet other than Therrien's. He coaches like he's afraid to lose. And perhaps, with only another year on his contract, that's his mindset. For all the "skin color" theories... coming from a guy living in the American South, is race even that big of an issue. Canada is pretty progressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 For all the "skin color" theories... coming from a guy living in the American South, is race even that big of an issue. Canada is pretty progressive. In the hockey community I'd say it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Anyway there will be no changes until an extended losing streak, at which time he will be fired. This may occur soon. Mind you some people say I would rather be lucky than good. Dosen't usually work in hockey. I wouldn't count on it. Mid-March (assuming it takes a couple weeks for this hypothetical streak) is a bit late in the process to make a coaching change (unless you're the Devils, as history has shown) and still be trying to make the playoffs. They wouldn't be adding new blood either, they'd just either promote Lefebvre or Jodoin to the head job for the rest of the year which would mean more of the same tactic-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I am 'pleased' with state of habs roster/mgmt and got few complaints. And with so many being 'over the top' on Therrien bashing, is fair for someone to be the opposite, no? And just dont see why the 'negativity', win or lose dosent matter, just seems neverending. I get, there is lots of debatable stuff for sure, but 'tar and feather' Therrien seems a bit uncalled to me. Unless team was tanking and sinking, when predicted to contend in the fall, then i might be on-board with my torch and pitchfork as well. Didnt Gallagher-Galchenyuk develop OK last year and Subban, correct me if wrong, was voted best d-man? not bad for Therrien and crew. cheers I agree. The regression can be blamed on the amount of goals scored. This year-22nd Last year-Top 5 in the league. Simple! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 went from 4th to 20th in goals/game but 14th to 8th in GAA If top 10 in defense, can still do well and why Habs are sitting in a good spot and more likely to make playoffs than miss. In the fall, I thought Habs finish 7th/8th in East and are bit above my expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 In the hockey community I'd say it is.But is it a serious issue? I'd argue that you could put Subban in a group of flashy players that the good old boys don't like, Ovechkin, Karlsson, Hertl,etc. That's the group that seems to have the issues more so than guys like Joel Ward, Mark Fraser, Wayne Simmonds, Chris Stewart or older black players like Anson Carter, Mike Grier, Peter Worrell or Donald Brashear.(If anyone cares Peter Worrell is coaching HS hockey for North Broward Prep. To my knowledge, race has not been a factor). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 But is it a serious issue? I'd argue that you could put Subban in a group of flashy players that the good old boys don't like, Ovechkin, Karlsson, Hertl,etc. That's the group that seems to have the issues more so than guys like Joel Ward, Mark Fraser, Wayne Simmonds, Chris Stewart or older black players like Anson Carter, Mike Grier, Peter Worrell or Donald Brashear. (If anyone cares Peter Worrell is coaching HS hockey for North Broward Prep. To my knowledge, race has not been a factor). Ovechkin, Karlsson, and Hertl are European which is a different hurtle for them to overcome in the eyes of Cherry and his ilk. Even younger generations aren't used to seeing much racial diversity in hockey, and there's a conservative mindset by which sure, you can be black, but you better be a good humble boy (like Iginla). A white Canadian or American is given much more rope to be brash and flashy without being labelled as a hotdog or a distraction. The thing is, Subban was almost pre-emptively put in that category. Look at the remarks by Mike Richards and Tim Thomas early in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Ovechkin, Karlsson, and Hertl are European which is a different hurtle for them to overcome in the eyes of Cherry and his ilk. Even younger generations aren't used to seeing much racial diversity in hockey, and there's a conservative mindset by which sure, you can be black, but you better be a good humble boy (like Iginla). A white Canadian or American is given much more rope to be brash and flashy without being labelled as a hotdog or a distraction. The thing is, Subban was almost pre-emptively put in that category. Look at the remarks by Mike Richards and Tim Thomas early in his career. Maybe I lived in Florida during the George Zimmerman trial, but I have a very hard time believing any of Subban's reputation issues are due to race. (By no means am I saying I'm an expert on the issue either). Frankly, he's not a likeable player to opposing fans. You tube is full of his dives, giveaways, goal celebrations and slew foots. That's not a black or white issue, that's the way he's played, especially in the first two years of his career. You would have an easier time convincing me that Brad Marchand's reputation issues are due to latent antisemitism in that he has a huge nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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