Vanek traded to Montreal

[hab29RETIRED]

They actually signed up their core BEFORE they became UFA's, so they were signed to relatively cap friendly deals (compared to UFA's).

The only two GM's that played hardball were Bergevin and Sather - and even Sather did lock up McDonough.

The only expensive UFA on the hawks is Hossa and he was signed to a front loaded relatively cap freindly deal.

They got rid of the other expensive UFA's Tallon signed. If we were goin to use the Hawks model, Subban would have been signed to a 8 year $5.5m deal.

Even a moron like Snow got it right by locking up Tavares to the best contract in hockey (even better than Maxpac). Prior to his Norris, there was no way Subban was going to be able to ask for more than Tavares or Karlsson. Now he will cost $8m+

Look at Chicago. They lock in their core at huge, market-rate salaries, and then allow impact second-tier players to walk year after year, replaced by cheaper young guys from within the system.

The key is obviously to have a pipeline reliably producing cheap young players that can supplant more expensive, second- and third-tier veterans on your roster. The issue with us, therefore, is less that we'd be throwing massive dough at Vanek, Subban, and Price - that's what those guys are worth - but that we're wasting millions on players like Gionta and Bourque, who should be replaced much more cheaply by guys like Bournival or equivalent. Gorges is a tougher call, but in principle represents another overpaid complementary player. Identify your core, lock it in, and then treat the rest as disposable the minute it gets too costly.

I think this model should be feasible for us. Timmins has shown that he can generate a steady stream of quality second-tier NHLers. Even without Colberg and Bozon, we still have quite a few appealing prospects in the system. What we need to do is make sure that we have player development to rival that of Chicago or Anaheim, so that we can dependably turn over whatever supplementary pieces of our roster have grown too expensive. So the cap problem is NOT overpaying for a Vanek; it's it clinging to overpaid complementary players due to a lack of player development.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Why not?

If the habs were willing to move Lafleur AND Robinson in the early 80's and the Flyers could move Carter and Richards after signing them to long term deals, why can't we move a 5'6" forward and a bottom pairing dman?

In those two cases, there was heavy interest in those players. Unless the stars align, and a team like Edmonton thinks "we need these two guys" the return they're going to get will be less than what they are.

[hab29RETIRED]

I'd take a lower return for DD - addition by substraction, where Galchenyuk gets a meaningful centre role.

In those two cases, there was heavy interest in those players. Unless the stars align, and a team like Edmonton thinks "we need these two guys" the return they're going to get will be less than what they are.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Vanek isn't getting on the board but man is he a great player. He was doing so much dirty work in the Sens zone digging out pucks and just trying to gain the puck.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Yes, watching Vanek is impressive. You really see that this player is at another level from anyone else on our team in terms of a complete offensive game. I still say, sign him - even at the (inevitable) overpay.

[illWill]

He is definitely generating alot of chances out there. You kind of get the feeling that once he gets the monkey off his back that he'll get a bunch

[Guest Stogey24]

Yeah, the goals will come. He wanted one bad last night. Fun to watch. They mentioned on CBC how Briere was telling Vanek he should sign here next year.

[Habsfan]

He is definitely generating alot of chances out there. You kind of get the feeling that once he gets the monkey off his back that he'll get a bunch

i have no doubt that once Vanek gets comfortable, he'll score a lot of goals. I remember when the Habs picked up Kovalev at the deadline in 2003. It took him 12 games to "wake up". I,m not saying it'll take Vanek as much time, but let's be patient with him.

[JMMR]

I'd take a lower return for DD - addition by substraction, where Galchenyuk gets a meaningful centre role.

So would I.

Think they could get a 2nd and a prospect?

Yeah, the goals will come. He wanted one bad last night. Fun to watch. They mentioned on CBC how Briere was telling Vanek he should sign here next year.

Yes I loved seeing him get frustrated and I heard him drop an F bomb behind the net.

[Commandant]

I think its Eller and not DD who will be moved out to make room for Galchenyuk at Center.

Fact is watch the last 50 games.... Eller is amongst the worst forwards on the team right now, nothing offensively, bad turnovers, stupid penalties.

DD is playing amazing hockey, and with what he's doing he's worth every penny of $3.5 million and is a legitimate second line NHL centre.

Galchenyuk - DD (2a)/Plekanec(2b) - Bournival or Prust (or White) isn't a bad rotation up the middle.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

It was my feeling when it came to the centers that Plekanec and Desharnais were the top six. Eller was positioned to replace Plekanec while Galchenyuk was positioned to replace Desharnais. Neither Plek or DD should be moved out until someone develops into being better than Plek or DD in the top six role.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Totally agree with Commandant. Desharnais, apart from that disastrous 20-game stretch, has pretty steadily proven that he can deliver NHL-calibre offence as a 2nd-line C. Eller has proven less than zero despite plenty of ice time. The whole idea that he plays a good two-way game is total bunk as well. He is a -15 on a team of overwhelmingly "plus" players. (Of course, Galy is -12, which probably is the single biggest reason why he has not yet been trusted with a centreman's role). I have no problem with them re-signing Eller at a low rate, but like most people around here I've lost any faith that he is part of our future core.

[Guest Stogey24]

I've said it before; Eller is honestly hurting this team right now. I know no one could have predicted his fallout, but boy, we could use some scoring from him. If he was putting up numbers slotted in as the number 3 centre this team would be a handful to play against.

[Neech]

Totally agree with Commandant. Desharnais, apart from that disastrous 20-game stretch, has pretty steadily proven that he can deliver NHL-calibre offence as a 2nd-line C. Eller has proven less than zero despite plenty of ice time. The whole idea that he plays a good two-way game is total bunk as well. He is a -15 on a team of overwhelmingly "plus" players. (Of course, Galy is -12, which probably is the single biggest reason why he has not yet been trusted with a centreman's role). I have no problem with them re-signing Eller at a low rate, but like most people around here I've lost any faith that he is part of our future core.

You're seriously using plus minus to indicate someone's defensive strength? PK is +1 while killing no penalties. Desharnais is +4 while Patches is -1. Beaulieu is +5 while Tinordi is -2. We could fabricate all sorts of fictional narratives out of a stat that has long been dismissed as useless.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

You're seriously using plus minus to indicate someone's defensive strength? PK is +1 while killing no penalties. Desharnais is +4 while Patches is -1. Beaulieu is +5 while Tinordi is -2. We could fabricate all sorts of fictional narratives out of a stat that has long been dismissed as useless.

Fact is, Eller fans got their wish when Galchenyuk and Gallagher got put back on a line with him and defensively they were atrocious. To the point where Therrien made the right coaching decision to put Gionta on the line.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

So, being -15 on a "plus" team says nothing, right? The guy is a piece of crap, let's face facts.

[Neech]

So, being -15 on a "plus" team says nothing, right? The guy is a piece of crap, let's face facts.

And Subban is an average player at +1, let's face facts? Pacioretty, at -1, worse than average? Chucky, at -12, AHL at best? These are your facts, yes?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

My "facts" are that Eller is an OUTLIER in the +/- category on this team. That is prima facie evidence that he is NOT an excellent two-way player. And his offensive numbers are even less excusable. For further evidence of his suckage, watch him play.

Or, have it your way. Eller the second coming of Bob Gainey and Guy Carbonneau all wrapped into one Danish roll. It's all good.

[Neech]

My "facts" are that Eller is an OUTLIER in the +/- category on this team. That is prima facie evidence that he is NOT an excellent two-way player. And his offensive numbers are even less excusable. For further evidence of his suckage, watch him play.

Or, have it your way. Eller the second coming of Bob Gainey and Guy Carbonneau all wrapped into one Danish roll. It's all good.

Eller has been sucking, no need to make a strawman. Plus minus is a BUNK stat and shouldn't be used to prove defensive capabilities. His outlier status is a product of his defensive role, his line's offensive futility, and of course his crappy play.

You're saying 'he's a piece of crap', I'm saying he's better than what we've seen the last half-season and that he'll be a useful NHLer beyond this year. Maybe it's just your hyperbolic polemical style, but you're going overboard.

[illWill]

I think you could tell the relief on Vanek's face after finally getting his first goal after a billion scoring chances. I think we will see somewhat close to his "expected" production from here on out.

[BlueKross]

I think its Eller and not DD who will be moved out to make room for Galchenyuk at Center.

Fact is watch the last 50 games.... Eller is amongst the worst forwards on the team right now, nothing offensively, bad turnovers, stupid penalties.

DD is playing amazing hockey, and with what he's doing he's worth every penny of $3.5 million and is a legitimate second line NHL centre.

Galchenyuk - DD (2a)/Plekanec(2b) - Bournival or Prust (or White) isn't a bad rotation up the middle.

Most of us are feeling pretty good about the team right now. However the real season is just beginning. Lets see where we really stand with this roster before we decide who should go next year.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Neech, if his terrible +/- is a product of his "defensive role," then that is (as I say) prima facie evidence that he is not a very good NHLer in that role. Ergo, his defensive game is not very good. Ergo, he is not a particularly good two-way player.

I agree, though, that he is probably not as bad as his past few months have shown. The wider issue with him is that his career with us has thus far been characterized overwhelmingly be mediocrity, with only a few bright phases to keep us having hope. In short, his overall body of work has "mediocrity" written all over it.

That said, I'd re-sign him at a cheap rate. Why not? Better to have depth than not have it, and who knows, there is still a chance he can put it together to become something other than a mostly-useless passenger.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Watching Eller's play, he's decent in his own zone. He follows his role pretty well in it, which makes him good for the PK. He isn't superior to Moen, more on par with Prust and White. But in center ice or in the opposing zone? He's erratic and shows no real sense or strategy. He just chases the puck. He doesn't get in a slot much, he doesn't goto the front of the net to try and get a rebound (aside from the goal in Ottawa) and it's a situation where the center doesn't set up his wingers. He's hoping for the winger (Galchenyuk, Gallagher, whoever else) to set him up. I'd have to re-watch those early EGG games to see if it was like that but working. If it was, that was something we just weren't noticing at the time. It's an unsustainable way to play.

Reading old posts I was always more impressed with Galchenyuk's play during the hot times of the EGG line, not Eller.

[Neech]

Neech, if his terrible +/- is a product of his "defensive role," then that is (as I say) prima facie evidence that he is not a very good NHLer in that role. Ergo, his defensive game is not very good. Ergo, he is not a particularly good two-way player.

That would work if +/- was a valuable stat. As evidenced previously, Tinordi's +/- is markedly worse than Beaulieu's because of his defensive role, but that isn't enough to say he's worse defensively.

Pleky, our revered defensive stalwart, has a career high of +10 in the NHL. I'd also downplay our current team as a 'plus team' - we have about a +6 goal differential if you take out empty netters for and against.

It seems like Eller's problem is that he doesn't seem to have chemistry with anyone. He makes a strong rush or controls the puck in the corner, but he can't find anyone for an incisive pass.

[KoRP]

It seems like Eller's problem is that he doesn't seem to have chemistry with anyone. He makes a strong rush or controls the puck in the corner, but he can't find anyone for an incisive pass.

Exactly Neech! Makes a great rush, and it goes nowhere....

I truly believe Eller has some good tools, it's evident he has been coached into knowing nothing of what his role is, or is going to be, by all the coaches he has had since coming here. I think he can turn his career around, he's really quite young still. I'm not saying he will ever be any more than a 3rd line player, but he has some skills to give him an NHL career for sure, and maybe even help us in the playoffs more than some people think.....