dlbalr Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 We've seen a bit of this already in the Jeff Petry signing thread but it's probably worthy of its own discussion. His contract means that it's probably likely that one of Alexei Emein or Tom Gilbert (or both) will be on the move this summer. One thing I've found is that there seems to be some differing opinions on what each of these players is worth. What do you think each could fetch on their own in a trade? For Gilbert, I think he's worth a third round pick or a defence prospect (and considering the dearth of options in the system, getting a prospect may be better than the pick). I think he gets too much grief since he's a softer player than anyone would like and he's prone to the odd ugly giveaway. But, he played over 19 minutes a night last year and over 21 minutes the year before, legitimate #4 ice time. And while some would suggest every last one of them was a nightmare, I think many around the league would disagree. It's not as if the Habs bid against themselves to get Gilbert back in July and with one year left, there should be teams looking at him as a stop gap or a more reasonable priced upgrade to the bottom half of the blueline. Emelin's a tougher one to pin down. Given that he's a physical defenceman and the fact that every team covets them, you'd think he'd probably be worth a second round. On the other hand, his contract isn't the best which hurts his value somewhat. Because of the contract, it would seem to be likely that the Habs would have to take a player back. In that case, my guess is that he'd be worth a forward who also is on an iffy-ish contract. Not a bad one, but one where most would acknowledge he's overpaid. The problem is, players in that category are often 2nd/3rd line 'tweeners' which probably isn't going to do much to help the team offensively. What do you think each player is worth? (Once that's figured out, then it'll be time to go to the trade proposal thread...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Honestly I'd pair a pick (one of our 2016 seconds) with Emelin it it meant clearing his cap hit, for a solid young physical d man in return. Always liked Brendan Dillon but only for how he looks on paper. I realize that Emelin + a second could be overkill for Dillon as well. sharks are coming off a bad year a may be more willing to deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I'd move both and try and package at least one with either pleks or DD to get a scorer back. Include a first if you have to, but get a real top six forward. We've seen a bit of this already in the Jeff Petry signing thread but it's probably worthy of its own discussion. His contract means that it's probably likely that one of Alexei Emein or Tom Gilbert (or both) will be on the move this summer. One thing I've found is that there seems to be some differing opinions on what each of these players is worth. What do you think each could fetch on their own in a trade? For Gilbert, I think he's worth a third round pick or a defence prospect (and considering the dearth of options in the system, getting a prospect may be better than the pick). I think he gets too much grief since he's a softer player than anyone would like and he's prone to the odd ugly giveaway. But, he played over 19 minutes a night last year and over 21 minutes the year before, legitimate #4 ice time. And while some would suggest every last one of them was a nightmare, I think many around the league would disagree. It's not as if the Habs bid against themselves to get Gilbert back in July and with one year left, there should be teams looking at him as a stop gap or a more reasonable priced upgrade to the bottom half of the blueline. Emelin's a tougher one to pin down. Given that he's a physical defenceman and the fact that every team covets them, you'd think he'd probably be worth a second round. On the other hand, his contract isn't the best which hurts his value somewhat. Because of the contract, it would seem to be likely that the Habs would have to take a player back. In that case, my guess is that he'd be worth a forward who also is on an iffy-ish contract. Not a bad one, but one where most would acknowledge he's overpaid. The problem is, players in that category are often 2nd/3rd line 'tweeners' which probably isn't going to do much to help the team offensively. What do you think each player is worth? (Once that's figured out, then it'll be time to go to the trade proposal thread...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Depends on teams' tightness to cap and internal budget. New Jersey would probably be willing to trade us a 2nd round pick. Philly would ask us to take Lecavalier. Carolina would beg us to take Semin. Either way, he probably won't net us an affordable goal-scorer... especially now that Mac T is no longer GM in Edmonton. Can somebody hire Milbury real quick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don't know why anyone would think those 2 are "on the block" because they signed Petry. I like those 6 D and Tinordi Patyren as back ups. I'm fine with that. Petry and Emelin were very good together. I ould be more looking to get rid of dead weight up front who can't score. No reason to have the likes of DD, PAP Pleks and Eller. I would have no problem moving 2 of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don't know why anyone would think those 2 are "on the block" because they signed Petry. I like those 6 D and Tinordi Patyren as back ups. I'm fine with that. Petry and Emelin were very good together. I ould be more looking to get rid of dead weight up front who can't score. No reason to have the likes of DD, PAP Pleks and Eller. I would have no problem moving 2 of them. imo pap is the only dead weight there. calling plex dead weight is lunacy too. Here's a little comparison of two-way forwards. Plex - 26 goals 60 points backes - 26 goals 58 points landeskog - 23 goals 59 points bergeron - 23 goals 55 points o'reilly - 17 goals 55 points if plex is dead weight, so are those guys. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 and queue the "dead wait in the playoffs posts" to come pouring in..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 and queue the "dead wait in the playoffs posts" to come pouring in..... Backes is getting the same label in STL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 imo pap is the only dead weight there. calling plex dead weight is lunacy too. Here's a little comparison of two-way forwards. Plex - 26 goals 60 points backes - 26 goals 58 points landeskog - 23 goals 59 points bergeron - 23 goals 55 points o'reilly - 17 goals 55 points if plex is dead weight, so are those guys. Pleks was just dead weight for twelve play off games. MB is gonna move him. He is this summers Josh Gorges. Keep Emelin. Habs are soft enough without moving one of our only physical players back there. Move Gilbert for a bag of pucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Pleks as 'dead weight' - what a joke. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Emelin by himself, cant argue that weaker 2nd line/strong 3rd liner may be worth. Gilbert middling prospect or a 4th & maybe a 7th picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I wouldn't say dead weight. Pleks has trade value. DD might get us a 5th round pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Honestly I'd pair a pick (one of our 2016 seconds) with Emelin it it meant clearing his cap hit, for a solid young physical d man in return. Always liked Brendan Dillon but only for how he looks on paper. I realize that Emelin + a second could be overkill for Dillon as well. sharks are coming off a bad year a may be more willing to deal. I'd move both and try and package at least one with either pleks or DD to get a scorer back. Include a first if you have to, but get a real top six forward. The point of this is to try to figure out what their values on their own are. Not pairing them up with draft picks or other players. (Also note that Plekanec has nothing to do with this thread so there's no need for the same old, same old comments about him here as we're already seeing...) I don't know why anyone would think those 2 are "on the block" because they signed Petry. I like those 6 D and Tinordi Patyren as back ups. I'm fine with that. Petry and Emelin were very good together. Tinordi and Pateryn both have to clear waivers next year so as things stand, they'll have 8 D on the roster which is something they don't like to do. Hence the thought that someone may be on the move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I think Emelin still has value despite his contract. However I am of the belief that he is gradually getting beat up worse and worse out there and it would be a smart to move him before too late. On his own, I'd say he'd fetch a player with a similar contract who isn't performing as expected, like a Louie Erikson or Berglund. Perhaps a team with space can afford to take him for a decent draft pick or prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 The point of this is to try to figure out what their values on their own are. Not pairing them up with draft picks or other players. Fair enough, I'd guess that Emelin only has the value of a prospect projected to make 5-7 defenseman at some point. Thats because of his salary. But there's probably someone out there high on him. I just feel like it'll be hard to trade Emelin in a 1-1 swap without getting a player worse than him because it will be a cap move for us. And honestly, I don't want to trade him for PAP type of players because all its doing is moving the problem from defence to forward. MB needs to actually clear the space while obtaining a good 4th-6th defenseman, which is why I suggested a pick be included in the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I think Emelin still has value despite his contract. However I am of the belief that he is gradually getting beat up worse and worse out there and it would be a smart to move him before too late. On his own, I'd say he'd fetch a player with a similar contract who isn't performing as expected, like a Louie Erikson or Berglund. Perhaps a team with space can afford to take him for a decent draft pick or prospect. Personally would be happy with a Erikson Emelin trade. but I don't see it happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Chiarelli has witnessed what Emelin can do..maybe we can swindle a 2nd or 3rd round pk outta Edmonton?...and by swindle, I mean dump him and his contract ps: Emelin would be a fool to not waive his NTC so he can go to EDM. Any organization with that amount of young talent AND drafting McDavid, is certainly close to becoming something special...whoa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 So you think Petry has talked up Oilers enough so that Emelin wants to go to that rebuilding western team? Would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I can't see too many players with a NTC willing to go to Edmonton or Winnipeg, despite McDavid being there. Pronged went to the finals, but wanted nothing to do with edmonton. Chiarelli has witnessed what Emelin can do..maybe we can swindle a 2nd or 3rd round pk outta Edmonton?...and by swindle, I mean dump him and his contract ps: Emelin would be a fool to not waive his NTC so he can go to EDM. Any organization with that amount of young talent AND drafting McDavid, is certainly close to becoming something special...whoa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Don't be surprised when Chiarelli brings Claude Julien to town and they add a few pieces and turn it around. Trust me, they're closer than most ppl here think they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don't doubt they are close, especially now that they finally have an NHL coach. Fact remains, not too many people want to live in Edmonton, when there are other options available. Why do you think so many players choose to sign with losing warm American cities, despite having other options? Why did Lecavalier sign a retirement contract with Tampa, despite them sucking? Edmonton is only able to sign guys by grossly overpaying and even than, they are usually also returning home (Souray, ference). I can't see Julien going there anytime soon. Given Chiarelli moving guys like Seguin, I wouldn't be surprised to see him move one of m the Oilers young high draft picks. Don't be surprised when Chiarelli brings Claude Julien to town and they add a few pieces and turn it around. Trust me, they're closer than most ppl here think they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan1989 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I would try and ask for a 2nd round pick for emelin. Or offer emelin and our 1st round pick and try and move up in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Don't be surprised when Chiarelli brings Claude Julien to town and they add a few pieces and turn it around. Trust me, they're closer than most ppl here think they are. Boston is keeping Julien, Edmonton already made Todd McLellan the head coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sim.on Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Pleks was just dead weight for twelve play off games. MB is gonna move him. He is this summers Josh Gorges. Keep Emelin. Habs are soft enough without moving one of our only physical players back there. Move Gilbert for a bag of pucks. I know this may be off topic, but I believe a large part of Pleks playoff struggles are related the lack of team strength/talent down the middle. It must be really tough for Pleck to produce when he is the main center the other team is trying to shut down and on top of that we are asking him to shut down the other teams top center. As for the trade values of Emelin and Gilbert, I think it would be pretty easy to simply dump the contracts and give them away for really late round picks but of course the idea is to get as much back as you can. I would think that they're values are really similar despite the dramatic difference in their contracts and styles of play, there are attractive element to both players. I think it would take a package of one or the other plus extras to get back anything that we actually want besides just clearing cap space. All in all the future on the back end is looking good with PK, Petry and hopefuly Beaulieu here long term, That is a top 3 that down the road could be comparable to what Chicago has now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I would try and ask for a 2nd round pick for emelin. Or offer emelin and our 1st round pick and try and move up in the draft. how far up the draft would it get us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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