DON Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Sergachev 1g 22+minutes, +3 for TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 This will be one those debated trades for years to come. I'm really liking drouin and his upside at this point. The kid appears to be a true student of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 They're both good players and will be for years to come. My main disappointment comes from the fact that we traded Sergachev without really using him in our system. It is what it is but it would have been nice to be a fan of his for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 20 minutes ago, BCHabnut said: This will be one those debated trades for years to come. I'm really liking drouin and his upside at this point. The kid appears to be a true student of the game. I think vast majority of HabFans and talking heads are good with return for Sergachev...even Bergevin's biggest critics (although Pierre McGuire said 'eyes rolled' when deal announced, but...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Can you imagine how the offense would look if MB didn't make this trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 1 hour ago, illWill said: Can you imagine how the offense would look if MB didn't make this trade? Good point. Of course, it reinforces my complaint that he had to move our best prospect in order to stand still - a losing recipe par excellence. If Sergachev becomes a star-quality #1 defenceman and Drouin a star-quality FW, we ultimately lose the trade, because a defenceman is always more valuable than an analogous forward. However, I won't complain too much because this organization has been so starved for so long for true star power up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 9 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Good point. Of course, it reinforces my complaint that he had to move our best prospect in order to stand still - a losing recipe par excellence. If Sergachev becomes a star-quality #1 defenceman and Drouin a star-quality FW, we ultimately lose the trade, because a defenceman is always more valuable than an analogous forward. However, I won't complain too much because this organization has been so starved for so long for true star power up front. I think that if Drouin can stick at center, while putting up between 60-75 points, it's a win for the Habs regardless of how well Sergachev pans out. For an organization that has been starving for a #1 center for what seems like forever, you need to sacrifice that stud Dman. I can't recall the last time I was this excited to see how a player performs heading into a season as I am about Drouin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 41 minutes ago, illWill said: I think that if Drouin can stick at center, while putting up between 60-75 points, it's a win for the Habs regardless of how well Sergachev pans out. For an organization that has been starving for a #1 center for what seems like forever, you need to sacrifice that stud Dman. I can't recall the last time I was this excited to see how a player performs heading into a season as I am about Drouin. Yeah, I can get behind that. I really believe in the general principle that a defenceman trumps a FW, but the #1C position may be the exception to that rule, especially for us. If Drouin ends up a stud W and Sergachev a stud D, we lose the trade; but if Drouin ends up a stud C, it's a huge win for the organization even if it's not a clear cut win on a player vs player basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 22, 2017 Author Share Posted September 22, 2017 2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: Good point. Of course, it reinforces my complaint that he had to move our best prospect in order to stand still - a losing recipe par excellence. If Sergachev becomes a star-quality #1 defenceman and Drouin a star-quality FW, we ultimately lose the trade, because a defenceman is always more valuable than an analogous forward. However, I won't complain too much because this organization has been so starved for so long for true star power up front. If Drouin becomes a #1 Winger and Sergachev a #1 D, yes we lose the trade. If he becomes a #1 Centre... I can't say that the defenceman is always more valuable than the centre. I also don't think this is trading our best prospect to stand still on offence. We changed a 30 year old forward into a 23 year old one, which has benefits down the road. if we had traded the 9th overall pick pre 2016 draft, for a 22 year old, recent 3rd overall pick, who might be a #1 Centre in the NHL, would anyone have complained? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 30 minutes ago, Commandant said: if we had traded the 9th overall pick pre 2016 draft, for a 22 year old, recent 3rd overall pick, who might be a #1 Centre in the NHL, would anyone have complained? I think it's safe to say that Tampa wouldn't have traded Drouin for the #9 overall pick that year, but yes, from a Hab perspective we wouldn't have even blinked to make that deal. Sergachev is a tantalizing prospect and the Habs got lucky that he was available at that spot and also good on management for selecting him, because perhaps if they went with a different selection, Tampa may not have done the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I have my apprehensions about Drouin being a bonafide #1 center but only time will tell. He quite simply might have to be. There are ample teams in the league where he would be a winger right now though. I'm 100% willing to be wrong but I always post what my gut tells me and in this case that's what it is saying. Considering people are saying we lose the trade if Drouin becomes a #1 wing and Sergachev pans out to his potential, one has to take the risk factor into consideration when assessing the trade. Droning is a C or W and Sergachev is definitely a D. Of course, on a team with Hedman, it's hard to envision Sergachev actually becoming a #1 defenseman any time soon either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link67 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 The way I see it... Drouin has a better chance at becoming a superstar forward than Sergachev does at becoming a superstar Defenceman. Therefore in my opinion, regardless of position, we have acquired the player most likely to have a higher impact on this team night after night in the short and long term. Especially during this season and likely the next, where Sergachev has maybe a small chance to become an instant bonafide top 3 guy, but Drouin is very likely to be a very productive Top Center or at the very least top line impact forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Link67 said: The way I see it... Drouin has a better chance at becoming a superstar forward than Sergachev does at becoming a superstar Defenceman. Therefore in my opinion, regardless of position, we have acquired the player most likely to have a higher impact on this team night after night in the short and long term. Especially during this season and likely the next, where Sergachev has maybe a small chance to become an instant bonafide top 3 guy, but Drouin is very likely to be a very productive Top Center or at the very least top line impact forward. I guess the obvious option might of been getting Duchene for Sergachev, but sounds like Sakic wanted way too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 5 hours ago, Link67 said: The way I see it... Drouin has a better chance at becoming a superstar forward than Sergachev does at becoming a superstar Defenceman. Therefore in my opinion, regardless of position, we have acquired the player most likely to have a higher impact on this team night after night in the short and long term. Especially during this season and likely the next, where Sergachev has maybe a small chance to become an instant bonafide top 3 guy, but Drouin is very likely to be a very productive Top Center or at the very least top line impact forward. The only thing is that say Sergachev were to become a top 3 in Tampa, that may have been good enough to be a top pairing guy in Montreal. We really have to see how it plays out because there's nothing to really back up those claims. I personally think both will become alll stars in this league. No one, including myself is complaining about the return but one of the grievances I have is that Sergachev plays a position where we have a void and we traded him for a player who we hope fills another positional void. I think that's the reason that a lot will depend on what position he ends up playing for us. One could argue Sergachev wouldn't have been able to play top pair this season but if I use my own crystal ball, I see him being there skill wise by next season at the latest. The only reason you won't see it in Tampa is because Hedman has years of elite left as well. The habs don't have a Hedman. If Drouin does pan out at center, no complaints here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 1 hour ago, xXx..CK..xXx said: The only thing is that say Sergachev were to become a top 3 in Tampa, that may have been good enough to be a top pairing guy in Montreal. We really have to see how it plays out because there's nothing to really back up those claims. I personally think both will become alll stars in this league. No one, including myself is complaining about the return but one of the grievances I have is that Sergachev plays a position where we have a void and we traded him for a player who we hope fills another positional void. I think that's the reason that a lot will depend on what position he ends up playing for us. One could argue Sergachev wouldn't have been able to play top pair this season but if I use my own crystal ball, I see him being there skill wise by next season at the latest. The only reason you won't see it in Tampa is because Hedman has years of elite left as well. The habs don't have a Hedman. If Drouin does pan out at center, no complaints here. I agree with Commandant. If Drouin becomes a legit #1C, then the trade is A-OK no matter how good Sergachev becomes. But if Drouin is a star winger, then the trade becomes more problematic due to the positional consideration. We also shouldn't fixate too much on the formal designation of "#1 defenceman" when a team is stacked with #1 defencemen. You'll notice that we generally don't refer to Larry Robinson as the 1978 Habs's "#1 defenceman." We talk about The Big Three, because any of those three would have been the #1 guy on most teams. Nashville is somewhat similar. Otherwise put, whether or not Sergachev unseats Hedman as the #1 defenceman on the Bolts, he might still become the equivalent of a legitimate #1 stud defenceman - which means Tampa will be a damned tough team to beat for years and years to come, because that is a frightening back end. All of which is to say that IF Drouin becomes a #1 winger, and Sergachev becomes TB's #2 d-man (but basically as good as Hedman), I'm not sure we should console ourselves that "at least he's not a number one guy." TB will still have gotten the better end of the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott462 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Well keep in mind we have some fantastic defensive prospects in Mete and Juulsen who will be stabilizing our back end for years to come all under the tutelage of Shea Weber no doubt. Habs generally are great at churning out great defenseman so I can understand the need to get that much needed forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 29 minutes ago, Scott462 said: Well keep in mind we have some fantastic defensive prospects in Mete and Juulsen who will be stabilizing our back end for years to come all under the tutelage of Shea Weber no doubt. Habs generally are great at churning out great defenseman so I can understand the need to get that much needed forward. I have never heard Mete or Juulsen being rated on the same level as Sergachev. The Habs under MB have been atrocious at player development, so that is another reason for skepticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Sergachev made TB's roster. 40 games and counting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmethead Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 42 minutes ago, Trizzak said: Sergachev made TB's roster. 40 games and counting... What do we get back if he plays 40? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 On 2017-09-23 at 10:12 AM, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said: I have never heard Mete or Juulsen being rated on the same level as Sergachev. The Habs under MB have been atrocious at player development, so that is another reason for skepticism. I’d have to think the only reason mete was not a 1st rounder and highly thought of his directly related to his small stature. Also, most will agree that he was a beast in last years OHL playoffs and actually out played sergachev in a head to head playoff battle. And im not saying sergachev isn’t a beast... I’m just saying Mete’s size is the reason he’s gone under the radar only until the spotlight of la belle province has shined on him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott462 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 26 minutes ago, Helmethead said: What do we get back if he plays 40? I believe we keep our 2nd rounder. Lets hope Sergachev can keep it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Scott462 said: I believe we keep our 2nd rounder. Lets hope Sergachev can keep it up! If he plays 40, Tampa gets our 6th rounder instead of our 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDriveFor25 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Commandant said: If he plays 40, Tampa gets our 6th rounder instead of our 2nd. I thought if Serg played 40 it just became a 1 for 1 swap - no picks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Commandant said: If he plays 40, Tampa gets our 6th rounder instead of our 2nd. 44 minutes ago, TheDriveFor25 said: I thought if Serg played 40 it just became a 1 for 1 swap - no picks? From Capfriendly.com: If Sergachev doesn't play 40 regular season or playoff games for the Lightning in the 2017/18, then Montreal receives Tampa Bay's 2018 6th round pick. If he plays 40 games, no draft picks are exchanged. So if he plays less than 40 games this season, we get a 6th rounder and they get a 2nd rounder. 40 games played, no picks - it becomes a 1 for 1 deal, straight up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 18 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said: I’d have to think the only reason mete was not a 1st rounder and highly thought of his directly related to his small stature. Also, most will agree that he was a beast in last years OHL playoffs and actually out played sergachev in a head to head playoff battle. And im not saying sergachev isn’t a beast... I’m just saying Mete’s size is the reason he’s gone under the radar only until the spotlight of la belle province has shined on him... Well, it's nice to think we got ourselves Torey Krug 2.0. I feel that size remains overrated in NHL circles. All the same, Sergachev is one of the very best D-prospects in hockey...probably unwise to slot Mete in as a comparable. It'll be exciting to see if VM can maintain his success once actual hockey games start, and if he can avoid the usual midseason crash and burn that so often befalls rookies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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