Trade Max Pacioretty traded to Vegas

[Habopotamus]

16 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Personally I don't draft Kotkaniemi over Zadina. Dude was revved up to be a Hab. I think he would have given 110% to be a star here. Maybe I eat crow on that when I'm 40.

 

But for this team? No. Keep stockpiling centres. I want Hughes or Cozens in 2019 and Lafreniere or Byfield in 2020. One of the four would be amazing. Two of the four would be the making of a real contender.

 

Let's say we finish dead last in 19-20 after moving Weber and Price and we win the lottery for Lafreniere. In 2019 we drafted Lavoie because Price had a decent season so we got 6th overall or something. We are now running with:

 

C: Lafreniere, Poehling, Suzuki, Kotkaniemi

L: Domi, Hudon, Lehkonen, 

RW: Lavoie, Scherbak, Bitten, Ylonen

F: Drouin (can play anywhere)

 

Now with this depth, we realize that Poehling and Lafreniere are real deal top centres while Suzuki can pivot to the wing. Maybe Kotkaniemi doesn't pan out as a top centre but ends up a really good 2/3 C. Suddenly we are running with a lineup that could look like

 

Suzuki - Lafreniere - Lavoie

Domi - Poehling - Drouin

Hudon - Kotkaniemi - Scherbak/Bitten

 

You could even move Kotkaniemi to the wing and have him replace Domi if he busts like I expect him to.

 

Point is, Leafs (I know I know we all hate hearing about them as they haven't won anything but hear me out) drafted Nylander and Marner as centres and play both as wingers. That's much easier to do than draft wingers and make them centres. Also if say Matthews signs an offer sheet in Arizona and is gone next summer, Toronto still has Tavares and Kadri and can move Marner back to centre if need be. That's why you need heavy centre depth. Poehling, Kotkaniemi, and Suzuki is a start. I want more. 

 

 

 

Yes, but the leafs were constantly pulling pucks out of their net last year( I know, we have Carey Price).

 

I'm with you though, I don't think centre depth is ever going to hurt you, but this team is going to need a top pair  D moving forward.... Sergachev would have been a nice piece right now. 

 

 

 

 

 

[nihilz]

Vegas retains 10%. Tatar at $4.8m.

[Scott462]

Good deal for Montreal, looks like MB still had something in him after all.

 

Wish Max all the best in Vegas, they did just make it to the finals last year and he will make up for some of hit they lost in Neal and Perron.

 

Wonder what his next contract will be. Surely they will announce it soon, I doubt we get that haul for a rental Pacioretty.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I'm disappointed that no LD comes back and that, in light of this, we probably should have Zadina or Tkatchuk in the system. (More proof that BPA is the way to go). Nonetheless, getting a well-regarded C prospect is an acceptable return for Max at a point when his value has been driven down about as low as it can go.

 

Tatar is an amusing curio. He will certainly get a chance on what is now easily one of the league's worst rosters.

 

All the best to MaxPac, another sacrifice on the altar of Habs' chronic incompetence.

[EMELINATOR]

Love this deal. Suzuki torched my Greyhounds last season. Looks like a future star. Hopefully we can develop him properly. Will be in attendance when Owen Sound is in town again this season. 

 

Also like how we can focus on finding a stud LHD now since we have stockpiled some talented young centres lately.

[ehjay]

I don't know what to think of tis trade but the thing I am sure about is: I didn't expect MB to be able to get a C back who might be a ble to play 1st line minutes.

So until Suzuki can crak lineup I will try to not $#!+ all over MB  

Gj MB u already have 'managed' to impress

[Chris]

Tatar will be moved at the deadline, wont get much but he'll be moved. 

 

Getting a top end C prospect and a 2nd was a good deal for Pacs. 

 

Drouin and Danault were not going to carry Pacs to great numbers and increase his value any. best to move him now. 

 

As someone mentioned, this is why you don't reach at the draft. Much more talented players should have been picked at #3. You don't draft Lars Eller 2.0 at #3. 

 

 

 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

One thing it shows is that we really are in 'rebuild' mode. When's the last time we traded a 30-year-old star player for an impact prospect? It's good news  both in that the return is solid AND that it speaks to an organization that understands that its present is trashed and that it needs to think on a 5-year timeline.

 

Agree with Chris. Passing on elite snipers at the draft really bugs me in light of this deal. That is a mistake at the draft, not a criticism of this trade. 

[Scott462]

Let’s give Kotkaniemi the benefit of the doubt before we start claiming he wasn’t the best taken at 3. You guys honestly don’t know that yet and he has a lot of potential, he’s just not as rounded and developed as guys like Zadina and Tkachuk. Let’s give it sometime.

 

He was a bit of a disappointment at the showcase but again that doesn’t mean much.

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

Suzuki is a considerably better player than Hague though.

I know, but my shopping list had all prospect LDs and Hague was the top LD in the VGK system

Getting a 1st rounder on 2019 and a potential top4 LD would have been my preferred return

 

But this trade seems a fine return for #67

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

43 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

Let’s give Kotkaniemi the benefit of the doubt before we start claiming he wasn’t the best taken at 3. You guys honestly don’t know that yet and he has a lot of potential, he’s just not as rounded and developed as guys like Zadina and Tkachuk. Let’s give it sometime.

 

He was a bit of a disappointment at the showcase but again that doesn’t mean much.

 

I don't care about the showcase...it's more that the other guys were widely regarded as higher-ceiling, higher-ranked picks. The Habs went for the best C available rather than the best pick per se. We need to be careful about not OVERreacting to the longstanding hole at C, or else we end up with a weaker organization than we should, and the C problem keeps hurting us indirectly for years to come.

 

That said, if Kotkaniemi becomes Kopitar, and Suzuki pans out, why, we have bona-fide studs down the middle. So it may all work out splendidly. But based on what we know now, we should have gone BPA.

[Scott462]

11 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I don't care about the showcase...it's more that the other guys were widely regarded as higher-ceiling, higher-ranked picks. The Habs went for the best C available rather than the best pick per se. We need to be careful about not OVERreacting to the longstanding hole at C, or else we end up with a weaker organization than we should, and the C problem keeps hurting us indirectly for years to come.

 

That said, of Kotkaniemi becomes Kopitar, and Suzuki pans out, why, we have bona-fide studs down the middle. So it may all work out splendidly. But based on what we know now, we should have gone BPA.

 

I disagree that the other guys were regarded as having a higher ceiling.

 

The arguement was that Zadina and Tkachuk were already established and you know what you are getting with them. It was Kotkaniemi who had the higher ceiling but also a bit of a risk because he wasn’t as established.

 

There was a lot of scouts that moved Kotkaniemi into the top 5 because of his potential, most notably Craig Button who said his highest potential could be the next Kopitar. So again I stress some patience in regards to our young blue chip prospect and now with the addition of Suzuki and Poehling in the wings it should take pressure off him and let him develop properly.

[huzer]

There, the dismantling of the 2007 draft class is complete.

 

Right now, I just feel bad for Max, the person. This was a crappy situation all around for him. Hopefully, he enjoys his time in Vegas.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I am very happy that this is over and I'm very happy that we got a good return.

 

Our team is very different than it was last year and we have some extra parts that can potentially land us a useful LD

 

Curious who plays where this year

[Habopotamus]

Trade Weber, when he gets healthy. 

 

Do this rebuild properly.

 

There is no reason to keep a 33 year old D-man, who still holds a ton of value, on a team that isn't going to contend for the next 3 years. 

 

Asset management 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

11 minutes ago, Scott462 said:

 

I disagree that the other guys were regarded as having a higher ceiling.

 

The arguement was that Zadina and Tkachuk were already established and you know what you are getting with them. It was Kotkaniemi who had the higher ceiling but also a bit of a risk because he wasn’t as established.

 

There was a lot of scouts that moved Kotkaniemi into the top 5 because of his potential, most notably Craig Button who said his highest potential could be the next Kopitar. So again I stress some patience in regards to our young blue chip prospect and now with the addition of Suzuki and Poehling in the wings it should take pressure off him and let him develop properly.

 

Well - time will tell. 

 

So is Weber the automatic new captain? 

[bar]

8 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well - time will tell. 

 

So is Weber the automatic new captain? 

I would try to find someone else, since hopefully, when healthy he will be shipped out, and losing 2 captains in less than a calendar year seems bad.

[Scott462]

10 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well - time will tell. 

 

So is Weber the automatic new captain? 

 

That seems to be the logical choice unless they go off the board with Gallagher. The refs don’t respect him so you inevitably land with Weber.

 

7 minutes ago, bar said:

I would try to find someone else, since hopefully, when healthy he will be shipped out, and losing 2 captains in less than a calendar year seems bad.

 

Why ship Weber out? You need a strong veteran to help along the young players we have and Weber is still going to be a solid D man in years to come. 

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

Tatar will be moved at the deadline, wont get much but he'll be moved. 

 

Getting a top end C prospect and a 2nd was a good deal for Pacs. 

 

Drouin and Danault were not going to carry Pacs to great numbers and increase his value any. best to move him now. 

 

As someone mentioned, this is why you don't reach at the draft. Much more talented players should have been picked at #3. You don't draft Lars Eller 2.0 at #3. 

 

2

 

He's not Lars Eller 2.0

He was number 5 on MacKenzie's list which is a survey of actual NHL scouts.  He wasn't that big of a reach.  And some of those actual NHL scouts had him rated 3rd. 

 

Zadina didn't get picked by the Sens, or the Coyotes. Less than half of the scouts surveyed by McKenzie had him at #3.  The idea that we passed up a player who everyone agrees is a better talent just isn't true.  There are a number of teams who would have passed on Zadina, and at least two more that actually did. 

[sbhatt]

I'm happy;  happy that Max is gone and the drama has ended...and happy with the return.  I fully expected MB to flub the trade and get less, so this was a pleasant surprise.

[Commandant]

46 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I am very happy that this is over and I'm very happy that we got a good return.

 

Our team is very different than it was last year and we have some extra parts that can potentially land us a useful LD

 

Curious who plays where this year

 

We just drafted 2 LHDs in the 2nd and 3rd round of this draft. 

We have 10 picks next year.  Are likely to have more when some of Byron, Plekanec, Tatar, Shaw, Schlemko, Benn are moved. 

 

No reason we cant take 3 or 4 LHD next year and see what happens. 

The thing with D is that they often develop later than forwards.  You can snag a top D in the middle rounds, forwards (especially centres) not so much.  Grab enough of them and your odds of one developping increased exponentially. 

 

 

Subban, Weber, Keith, all second rounders. 
Burns, Karlsson, middle to late first rounders. 
Rob Blake, Nic Lidstrom, 3rd rounders. 

 

Thats our top defenceman (weber), and the majority of Norris Trophies won since 2000. 

 

Niedermayer, Pronger, Doughty and Hedman are the only other guys with Norris' who went really high. 

[Chris]

I have my opinion on him, if im great for the habs. if im right they reached. i don't claim to be any expert. 

[Commandant]

7 minutes ago, Chris said:

I have my opinion on him, if im great for the habs. if im right they reached. i don't claim to be any expert. 

 

What is that opinion based on?  Where had you seen him play before he was drafted?  How often?  Did you watch the 5 nations? the Under 18? the 2017 Hlinka? Any of his games in Finland?

Its fine to have an opinion, I'm just asking how informed it is.

 

If you've watched him, fine.

 

If not, people don't even have to listen to me... I'm just a dude on a message board... but you have to respect the opinions of McKenzie's survey of actual NHL scouts that this isn't a reach pick and Zadina wasn't a clear cut guy at 3. 

[Habiman]

Given situation, this is a good hockey trade for both teams.  Shame Patches had to end his tenure like this.  That said, I like what we got and I fully expect Tatar to get flipped by the end of the season.  If we see Reilly, Oulette, Mete and Juulsen handle big minutes while Weber is out, I think Weber will also be moved by seasons end.  Goaltenders can play longer...I think Carey stays longer term...all that said, gonna be a long season....

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

14 minutes ago, Habiman said:

Given situation, this is a good hockey trade for both teams.  Shame Patches had to end his tenure like this.  That said, I like what we got and I fully expect Tatar to get flipped by the end of the season.  If we see Reilly, Oulette, Mete and Juulsen handle big minutes while Weber is out, I think Weber will also be moved by seasons end.  Goaltenders can play longer...I think Carey stays longer term...all that said, gonna be a long season....

 

Price is staying for as long as he wants to.

 

Weber is also staying, I believe. Management has invested too much of its precious ego into him to turn around and trade him. He will get the C for the same reason - the whole rationale for acquiring him in return for a younger and superior overall player was his supposed Leadership, so they can't very well give the C to someone else without tacitly admitting they made a mistake.

 

There's also the legitimate argument that you don't develop young guys by throwing them to the wolves, and that Weber is a necessary cushion who will enable young blueliners to find their way without getting obliterated night after night. There is a lot to this point.

 

For all of these reasons, I think #6 and #31 will be on the team for the foreseeable future.