Feb. 20, Maple Leafs vs Canadiens, 7 PM

[dlbalr]

As much as it's disappointing to lose, that was one of Montreal's better games as of late, a lot better than how they were playing heading into the break (especially in terms of generating chances).  If they play like that tomorrow, they'll be in good shape.

[Neech]

We should keep in mind that we played this game with our 4th best D-man in the stands.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Just now, dlbalr said:

As much as it's disappointing to lose, that was one of Montreal's better games as of late, a lot better than how they were playing heading into the break (especially in terms of generating chances).  If they play like that tomorrow, they'll be in good shape.

And Allen is playing 🍺

 

Kidding sort of

[GHT120]

9 minutes ago, Neech said:

We saw three pretty tidy finishes, but didn't manage any ugly goals.

Statement was a little more general than just tonight ... seems like almost every loss the habs "generated more chances" ... none of the Habs regular top 9 have ever scored more than 33 goals in a season ... despite their hot starts, it would still be a very pleasant surprise if Toffoli or Anderson finish with more than 22 goals this season (33/82 pace) 

[BCHabnut]

11 minutes ago, sbhatt said:

 

The lack of finish seems to be striking again.  So many grade-A chances squandered that could have offset the pk fails.

They scored 3 goals. 

[GHT120]

10 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

They scored 3 goals. 

And lost ... PP is mediocre ... it is currently 15th at 20.8%, with three next worst teams less than 0.9% behind, and tied for 17th PP opportunities per game ... despite all the "chances" the Habs are not generating PPs or scoring enough when they get them ... as long as that is the case either more grade-A chances have to be converted OR goalies have to be 98/99 Hasek every night

[BCHabnut]

The PK wasn't good enough tonight. A good goalie saves the 2nd matthews goal. A great goalie saves the marner goal as well. This loss is on the defense

[GHT120]

1 minute ago, BCHabnut said:

The PK wasn't good enough tonight. A good goalie saves the 2nd matthews goal. A great goalie saves the marner goal as well. This loss is on the defense

Offence has to bail out defence ... defence has to bail out offence ... goalies have to bail out both

There was no bailing tonight

[BCHabnut]

Just now, GHT120 said:

Offence has to bail out defence ... defence has to bail out offence ... goalies have to bail out both

There was no bailing tonight

Noted. But if you score three goals and let in five, I think the blame should lie in your own end. The stick end save on weber and the split pad save were phenomenal.  Andersen was great. Price was OK. 

[GHT120]

8 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

Noted. But if you score three goals and let in five, I think the blame should lie in your own end. The stick end save on weber and the split pad save were phenomenal.  Andersen was great. Price was OK. 

OVERALL defence deserves blame ...  but if offence misses a number of good chances then they are also at fault ... 3 of 5 goals were on the 5 PPs that the Habs gave the league best 37.5% PP ... I might go thirdsies between non-PK defence, PK and non-PP offence in terms of blame

[hab29RETIRED]

4 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

Noted. But if you score three goals and let in five, I think the blame should lie in your own end. The stick end save on weber and the split pad save were phenomenal.  Andersen was great. Price was OK. 

Price was great in the first period - as was Anderson and  average the rest of the way.
 

One difference is lacking elite the elite skill of M&M.  Case in point was in the first when Drouin got the puck all alone in front of the net, and instead of quickly burying it before Anderson could react, Drouin passed it off.  
 

lacking that elite skill, more than anything else though, are defence is just not good enough.  There are only so many point blank chances a goalie is going to stop and Price is no longer the same goalie he was in 2015.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I blame CJ for our recent struggles. 
 

First games we played a two man forecheck and caused havoc. 
 

Since then we are playing one forechecker and 4 players in neutral zone. 
 

we went from a high pressure speed game to a neutral zone grinding team. Our PP is pathetic again and PK clearly sucked last night. 
 

Price average, D slow, Danault proving that he is a shutdown centre with average at best offensive skill and our stud D Weber looks awful 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Does anyone have a link to a stats site that shows TOI by period? 
 

I want to verify my belief that CJ played the Evans line often instead of skill while we are down 5-2. 
 

 

[DON]

1 hour ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Does anyone have a link to a stats site that shows TOI by period? 
 

I want to verify my belief that CJ played the Evans line often instead of skill while we are down 5-2. 
 

 

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20202021/TH020284.HTM

[dlbalr]

Who wants to take a crack at today's GDT?

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, DON said:

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20202021/TH020284.HTM

Thanks Don 

 

It looks like CJ continued to roll 4 lines in the third. 

[GHT120]

3 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Thanks Don 

 

It looks like CJ continued to roll 4 lines in the third. 

Something he will have to do most of the time now with 38 games in the next 73 days ... even with some depth rotation it will be a heavy load ... and that depth rotation is great for the 4th line, but comes with varying degrees of drop-off as you move up the lines.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I thought the Habs looked alert and sharp from the start, which to my mind was important. They showed few signs of rust.

 

You can question the fourth goal, but the other Leafs’ goals were simply unstoppable. That Marner goal was simply incredible. And that’s the problem. The Leafs have absolutely top-end, elite talent. The Habs rely on four lines and depth. Yet the Leafs’ depth is also pretty good, frankly, and their netminding is as good as ours. This blunts any advantage our depth gives us.

 

When our third goal was denied, I knew it was over.

 

We’re what, 1-3 or 1-4 against them now? I think we have to face the fact that they are simply better than us. Too much high-end skill balanced by excellent role-players. Right now, to be honest, they look like “one of those teams” that come together every now and then and just dominate the league. Their PP is reminiscent of the old dynasty Habs.

 

My hope is that they’re peaking right now; that injuries or just plain old-fashioned loss of sync and mojo chip away at them heading down the abbreviated stretch drive. Because as it stands, we can give them a good go, but they will win a playoff series against us every single time. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

Something he will have to do most of the time now with 38 games in the next 73 days ... even with some depth rotation it will be a heavy load ... and that depth rotation is great for the 4th line, but comes with varying degrees of drop-off as you move up the lines.

I agree 

 

CJ has a history of playing grinders instead of skill even when goals are needed 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

4 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I thought the Habs looked alert and sharp from the start, which to my mind was important. They showed few signs of rust.

 

You can question the fourth goal, but the other Leafs’ goals were simply unstoppable. That Marner goal was simply incredible. And that’s the problem. The Leafs have absolutely top-end, elite talent. The Habs rely on four lines and depth. Yet the Leafs’ depth is also pretty good, frankly, and their netminding is as good as ours. This blunts any advantage our depth gives us.

 

When our third goal was denied, I knew it was over.

 

We’re what, 1-3 or 1-4 against them now? I think we have to face the fact that they are simply better than us. Too much high-end skill balanced by excellent role-players. Right now, to be honest, they look like “one of those teams” that come together every now and then and just dominate the league. Their PP is reminiscent of the old dynasty Habs.

 

My hope is that they’re peaking right now; that injuries or just plain old-fashioned loss of sync and mojo chip away at them heading down the abbreviated stretch drive. Because as it stands, we can give them a good go, but they will win a playoff series against us every single time. 

There is more going on here than teams have adjusted to us. 
 

Boston has one of the best first lines in hockey but they didn’t become that until CJ left. 
 

Like I said, the first few games the Habs forechecked like crazy and the team had an offensive posture. 
 

We haven’t scored worth a crap for a while and that is because we now have a defensive posture. We don’t attack, we sit in neutral zone and wait for a mistake. 
 

CJ is no longer in Boston because of this. He thinks the best way to win is to prevent the other team from scoring. We are clearly a team that can score unless we spend our time preventing goals instead. 
 

We are built for in your face hockey but we now play trap hockey. Add in a mediocre goalie and slow D and we suck. 
 

Why has most of our scoring from all lines dried up ? Claude Julien - ask any Boston fan
 

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Julien is not a super-imaginative or innovative coach, but he is a high-quality NHL coach. I notice that his supposed horribleness in Beantown was still sufficient to win a Cup, come within a hair’s breadth of a second, and last 10 (!!) years. We’re unlikely to find anyone better. And the idea that he is to blame for the fact that the Leafs regular hand our asses to us on the regular seems like wishful thinking to me. They’re a better team than the Habs, period. 

 

CJ is not the fundamental problem IMHO. If we have a fundamental problem - because I continue to believe this is a very strong club - it resides in the following:

 

1. The D is too slow. I’m tired of seeing Weber with his back to the play when goals are scored; he is simply too old to be carrying the burden of the #1 guy, and we have two other slowfoots in Edmundson and Chiarot playing big roles back there. 

 

2. We don’t have elite scorers. 

 

Up against a truly elite team like TO, these weaknesses get exposed and will continue to do so.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

32 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Julien is not a super-imaginative or innovative coach, but he is a high-quality NHL coach. I notice that his supposed horribleness in Beantown was still sufficient to win a Cup, come within a hair’s breadth of a second, and last 10 (!!) years. We’re unlikely to find anyone better. And the idea that he is to blame for the fact that the Leafs regular hand our asses to us on the regular seems like wishful thinking to me. They’re a better team than the Habs, period. 

 

CJ is not the fundamental problem IMHO. If we have a fundamental problem - because I continue to believe this is a very strong club - it resides in the following:

 

1. The D is too slow. I’m tired of seeing Weber with his back to the play when goals are scored; he is simply too old to be carrying the burden of the #1 guy, and we have two other slowfoots in Edmundson and Chiarot playing big roles back there. 

 

2. We don’t have elite scorers. 

 

Up against a truly elite team like TO, these weaknesses get exposed and will continue to do so.

There is much truth here but CJ is responsible for changing our style from a 2 man forecheck to a 1-4 trap system. 
 

2 man forecheck = let’s score

 

1-4 trap = please don’t score on us and hopefully you make a mistake 

 

Look at how many goals we scored before the switch compared to now. 

We can’t even score on Ottawa, a team with no stars or anything near what leafs have

 

[tomh009]

15 hours ago, sbhatt said:

Same old shit.  The 5 on 3 aside, the Leafs are just better.  They have had more sustained cycles in our end, buried more of their grade A chances, and have been better defensively when it mattered most.  I'm ready to call our first 10 games an illusion.  Beyond disappointed in this team.

OK, so I agree that the Leafs have better top forwards at least. And their goalie was better on this night.

 

But I would argue that we should have been able to win with the players we have. This loss is not on Bergevin, it's on the players and on Julien. The lack of defensive discipline -- including unnecessary penalties -- was atrocious. (No, I don't blame Mete for that tripping call, though.)

 

Yes, better finishing would have helped, and might have made a difference. Armia had an A-1 chance on the (singular!) power play but Andersen snagged it. Evans took a great shot in front of the goal, but Andersen slid his pad across and just managed to catch the shot -- if Evans had taken the shot 10 cm further away from the goal, it would have likely been over the pad.

 

The roster is what it is. It's absolutely better than last year. And we are maxed out to the cap anyway so there is no room to add more talent, even if it were available. Julien needs to make this work now. If the opposition has figured out our game plan, he needs to adjust it. If they have figured out that Suzuki needs extra attention, he needs to rearrange the lines to avoid that. He needs to instill disciple to stay out of the penalty box. He needs to get the PK to deal with elite forwards like the Leafs have. And he needs to get Suzuki working on his faceoffs.

 

Julien, are you up for it?

[BCHabnut]

KK really stood out for me last night. I love the big hits he lays in the offensive zone. He wanted the middle if the ice and he took it. Anderson played well too. As a whole, the team played a good game. The mistakes were just big ones. The Chariot puck over glass for a 5 on 3. Weber taking himself out of position to hit Matthews in the neutral zone. Price non save on the 2nd Matthews goal. 

 

 

[DON]

KK seems bit reckless in his forechecks, but love that he is aggressive and agree he stood out in the entertaining game.