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When Does Dominique Ducharme Get Fired?


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13 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Julien in January:

  • 5-1-2
  • 4.1 FG, 2.8 GA

Julien in February:

  • 4-4-2
  • 2.8 GF, 3.0 GA

Ducharme:

  • 4-3-4
  • 2.9 GF, 2.5 GA

The wins are not rolling in for Ducharme yet, to be sure. But GAA is down from 3.0 to 2.5, which is is significant. In spite of the modest improvement in the winning record, I still see positives in what he is doing. We had four OT/SO losses since he took over, but we were within a goal of winning every one of those. The gap is not so huge.


ultimately my recent posts are borne of frustration so grain of salt and all. 
 

The difference in goals against is about Price not playing like crap. He has been good or at least very much improved. 

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Dude. It's one game.

We are definitely not a team that can even think about rolling 4 lines with Anderson out if we want to score more goals.  The KK line looks anemic on the wings.  Until Anderson returns, I'm all for sw

Troll alert !  Troll alert !

He has improved the team in an environment with virtually no practice time to implement systems changes that he may want, and as such is forced to merely tweak what Julien was doing.  Ducharme deserves more time.

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I'm more than willing to ride Ducharme and even for him to be the next coach.

 

Anyway, what was the list ?

 

Bouchard

Vincent

Groux

Ducharme

Roy

 

 

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Bouchard is, and should be, a great player development guy. That doesn't mean that he would be a great NHL coach.

 

And Roy ... please, no. We'll remember him for his goaltending, let's not soil that with a failed coaching stint.

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I can’t even imagine a guy like Roy in leadership here. Hiring Roy to be the general manager and possibly coach as he wants would be the end of Molson. Molson would be embarrassed into selling the team 😂

 

Hmmm🤔

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3 hours ago, Commandant said:

He has improved the team in an environment with virtually no practice time to implement systems changes that he may want, and as such is forced to merely tweak what Julien was doing.  Ducharme deserves more time.


Yeah this is the truth and he has made adjustments which Julien would never have done. 
 

Im frustrated with his OT lines. It seems so obvious to play your scores 

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10 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

We continue to play like a bubble team.

 

Isn't that what they are though?  The division is basically Toronto, 5 bubble teams, and Ottawa.  This thing of one bad game, one good game isn't limited to Montreal; Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, and Winnipeg are all going through it as well.  The Habs aren't necessarily significantly better than any of those teams (maybe Vancouver), nor are they clearly worse.  That's basically the definition of a bubble team.

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45 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

Isn't that what they are though?  The division is basically Toronto, 5 bubble teams, and Ottawa.  This thing of one bad game, one good game isn't limited to Montreal; Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, and Winnipeg are all going through it as well.  The Habs aren't necessarily significantly better than any of those teams (maybe Vancouver), nor are they clearly worse.  That's basically the definition of a bubble team.


Yeah I’m starting to admit that I’m still in denial. I consider/considered the Habs to be a step above bubble status but we really aren’t. 
 

Still, it feels like we should be better than that. 

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27 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


Yeah I’m starting to admit that I’m still in denial. I consider/considered the Habs to be a step above bubble status but we really aren’t. 
 

Still, it feels like we should be better than that. 

Even Toronto has lost five of the last six. Three of the losses have been to Vancouver and Ottawa.

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  • 3 weeks later...

This thread creted a lot of chatter on TSN 690, many commenting on how much the Habs have improved under Ducharme

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...


As Commandant pointed out Ducharme hasn’t had an opportunity to make real structural changes. 
 

Im questioning if the players respect him at all. How can a respected coach get such poor efforts over and over again?

 

My feeling is that the vets are in charge and not the coach. As if the vets allow Ducharme to exist but he certainly isn’t in charge. 
 

What explains the lack of effort? Besides fatigue - all teams are fatigued. 

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2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


As Commandant pointed out Ducharme hasn’t had an opportunity to make real structural changes. 
 

Im questioning if the players respect him at all. How can a respected coach get such poor efforts over and over again?

 

My feeling is that the vets are in charge and not the coach. As if the vets allow Ducharme to exist but he certainly isn’t in charge. 
 

What explains the lack of effort? Besides fatigue - all teams are fatigued. 

 

The vets got Julien fired and now they appear to be in the process of ruining Ducharme’s promising coaching career.

 

But look. Two huge keys to this edition of the Montreal Canadiens are Carey Price and Shea Weber. We’ve almost forgotten this, but Price is supposed to be an *edge* for the team, a difference-maker, the guy who steals us games we shouldn’t win and locks down games we should. It sounds almost funny to say it now. And Shea Weber is supposed to be a bruising legit #1 defenceman with a devastating, difference-making bomb on the PP. That’s how this club is built. That’s what the salary structure says as well.

 

It turns out that all of Bergevin’s great additions don’t do a whole lot to compensate for the regression of the two keystones of the franchise into mediocrity. They’ve helped to keep us competitive. But it’s a step forward and a step back, leaving us wallowing in a pool of inadequacy yet again. That’s not the coaches’ fault, ultimately.

 

They two key cogs have been average-to-terrible from opening day this season. 

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3 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

... What explains the lack of effort? Besides fatigue - all teams are fatigued. 

 

For all the talk about the habs having a great locker room and veteran leadership, if the veterans were "in charge" the effort would still be there on a more regular basis ... IMO the team is fragile ... an early goal often gives them a boost that they can sometimes ride to taking control of the game ... but in a game like last night, despite a 1-0 lead, when the Oilers tie the game the tide shifts ... teams with great character and veteran leadership should not be so fragile ... I have not lost hope ... if they get on a roll confidence can inflate and the fragility can recede ... but I fear it would still be just below the "emotional surface"

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27 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The vets got Julien fired and now they appear to be in the process of ruining Ducharme’s promising coaching career.

 

But look. Two huge keys to this edition of the Montreal Canadiens are Carey Price and Shea Weber. We’ve almost forgotten this, but Price is supposed to be an *edge* for the team, a difference-maker, the guy who steals us games we shouldn’t win and locks down games we should. It sounds almost funny to say it now. And Shea Weber is supposed to be a bruising legit #1 defenceman with a devastating, difference-making bomb on the PP. That’s how this club is built. That’s what the salary structure says as well.

 

It turns out that all of Bergevin’s great additions don’t do a whole lot to compensate for the regression of the two keystones of the franchise into mediocrity. They’ve helped to keep us competitive. But it’s a step forward and a step back, leaving us wallowing in a pool of inadequacy yet again. That’s not the coaches’ fault, ultimately.

 

They two key cogs have been average-to-terrible from opening day this season. 


and tell me how this is news for any of us?

you are stating the obvious 

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31 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

The vets got Julien fired and now they appear to be in the process of ruining Ducharme’s promising coaching career.

 

But look. Two huge keys to this edition of the Montreal Canadiens are Carey Price and Shea Weber. We’ve almost forgotten this, but Price is supposed to be an *edge* for the team, a difference-maker, the guy who steals us games we shouldn’t win and locks down games we should. It sounds almost funny to say it now. And Shea Weber is supposed to be a bruising legit #1 defenceman with a devastating, difference-making bomb on the PP. That’s how this club is built. That’s what the salary structure says as well.

 

It turns out that all of Bergevin’s great additions don’t do a whole lot to compensate for the regression of the two keystones of the franchise into mediocrity. They’ve helped to keep us competitive. But it’s a step forward and a step back, leaving us wallowing in a pool of inadequacy yet again. That’s not the coaches’ fault, ultimately.

 

They two key cogs have been average-to-terrible from opening day this season. 


Is it not Ducharme’s job to manage this? If Weber shows he can’t do it anymore should DD not address it? Peel his minutes back, no PK time etc? Does Ducharme not realize that Weber is an issue or is he afraid to upset the vets?

 

We have reasons why we stink and this team seems to shrug their shoulders as if there is nothing that can be done about it. 
 

I say again that we suck because we are not serious about fixing it. 

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28 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

For all the talk about the habs having a great locker room and veteran leadership, if the veterans were "in charge" the effort would still be there on a more regular basis ... IMO the team is fragile ... an early goal often gives them a boost that they can sometimes ride to taking control of the game ... but in a game like last night, despite a 1-0 lead, when the Oilers tie the game the tide shifts ... teams with great character and veteran leadership should not be so fragile ... I have not lost hope ... if they get on a roll confidence can inflate and the fragility can recede ... but I fear it would still be just below the "emotional surface"


We have too many players that we elevate to very important/integral that do not contribute to the level we give them. 
 

Danault is perfect example. He is very important to our team and he is used very heavily in all situations. Our number one centre ... that does not put up points. 
 

He will be paid and used as a #1 but contribute as a #3. His defensive prowess is needed and wonderful but they are attributes of a #3. 
 

KK and Suzuki may be the future but Danault is relied upon and will surely be paid as the #1 despite being 60th versus other centres. 

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30 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


Is it not Ducharme’s job to manage this? If Weber shows he can’t do it anymore should DD not address it? Peel his minutes back, no PK time etc? Does Ducharme not realize that Weber is an issue or is he afraid to upset the vets?

 

We have reasons why we stink and this team seems to shrug their shoulders as if there is nothing that can be done about it. 
 

I say again that we suck because we are not serious about fixing it. 

 

If your franchise cornerstones suck, it is impossible to coach your way out of that. You can peel Weber’s minutes back, but who takes those minutes? Nobody who is anywhere near as good as a the team needs Weber to be.

 

It’s a problem that can only be fixed by the replacement of Weber with a legit #1 defenceman.

 

Similarly, the evaporation of Price as a difference-maker can only be fixed by the addition of a comparable difference-maker, whether at G or elsewhere.

 

Putting it this way shows the scale of the structural problem. MB added a number of good pieces (imagine if he hadn’t signed Allen???) but they amount to a patchup job over the craters caused by the distingtegration of the franchise cornerstones.

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12 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

If your franchise cornerstones suck, it is impossible to coach your way out of that. You can peel Weber’s minutes back, but who takes those minutes? Nobody who is anywhere near as good as a the team needs Weber to be.

 

It’s a problem that can only be fixed by the replacement of Weber with a legit #1 defenceman.

 

Similarly, the evaporation of Price as a difference-maker can only be fixed by the addition of a comparable difference-maker, whether at G or elsewhere.

 

Putting it this way shows the scale of the structural problem. MB added a number of good pieces (imagine if he hadn’t signed Allen???) but they amount to a patchup job over the craters caused by the distingtegration of the franchise cornerstones.


I agree with the heart of your argument but disagree that there isn’t anything we can do about it. 
 

Allen was vastly outplaying Price yet coaching would not play Allen more. Why not? 
 

Weber is struggling yet his ice time and usage remains the same. Use him less and other defence more. 
 

Bergevin provides the players but Ducharme decides how to use them

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37 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

If your franchise cornerstones suck, it is impossible to coach your way out of that. You can peel Weber’s minutes back, but who takes those minutes? Nobody who is anywhere near as good as a the team needs Weber to be.

 

It’s a problem that can only be fixed by the replacement of Weber with a legit #1 defenceman.

 

Similarly, the evaporation of Price as a difference-maker can only be fixed by the addition of a comparable difference-maker, whether at G or elsewhere.

 

Putting it this way shows the scale of the structural problem. MB added a number of good pieces (imagine if he hadn’t signed Allen???) but they amount to a patchup job over the craters caused by the distingtegration of the franchise cornerstones.

 
I find it a bit harsh given that they are playing 3 games I 4 days the rest of the way and nagging injuries and fatigue are making the cornerstones of this team crumble

 

buy you are not wrong.

 

I am ok in doing to Ducharme what the Habs did to that other interim coach in an impossible losing season (I forget the name) , honey something ?

 

Regardless of whom you would have brought in, the team is what it is.

If MB continues next season, it will be easier to find a new coach. If MB is fired, the new GM will have an easier task in hiring a coach.

 

Also, the pending UFAs multiple draft picks and salary structure will allow the Habs to complete the retool this summer, if a new GM comes in he will have a good chance to change the team to his liking  

 

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Hey, team looked good for 1st half of game...baby steps.

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14 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... Also, the pending UFAs multiple draft picks ...

 

Even if I sometimes disagree, almost envy your eternal optimism ... but this is one of the worst years ever to try to leverage draft picks in trades (I assume that is what you meant as no 2020 draft pick will help for a couple of years at least) ... it is a weak draft year ... teams have had minimal opportunity to even scout the previously expected top/lottery picks, let alone anyone else to be picked later ... sadly, likely not tremendous value

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His style reminds me a lot of Jaques Martin. All 5 back. All 5 supporting out of the d and through the neutral zone. But then crossing the offensive blueline, I get confused. How does a team that scores most of its goals from the rush, score when you never rush? If you're going to support up ice, you need to cycle and own the wall. You can still transition and rush from turnovers but not from breakouts. Because there aren't breakouts from what I'm seeing. I feel like they need to work on the cycle game in the o zone.

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13 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

His style reminds me a lot of Jaques Martin. All 5 back. All 5 supporting out of the d and through the neutral zone. But then crossing the offensive blueline, I get confused. How does a team that scores most of its goals from the rush, score when you never rush? If you're going to support up ice, you need to cycle and own the wall. You can still transition and rush from turnovers but not from breakouts. Because there aren't breakouts from what I'm seeing. I feel like they need to work on the cycle game in the o zone.


Evidenced by the fact that our goal production is now pathetic. 
 

Can’t win if you can’t score

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