When Does Dominique Ducharme Get Fired?

[alfredoh2009]

3 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Elite Price makes a massive difference (as it should). But the difference between regular season and playoffs is significant too. First of all, the regular season, even in its 56-game attenuated form, is a grind with no end in sight and no defined target other than making the playoffs. Aging veterans tend to suffer in that context. By contrast, the playoffs are broken into defined 7-game series and aging vets are often able to recover their old form for those limited spurts.

 

Close games in the regular season are decided by 3-on-3 OT and shootout. That is very, very different from a 5-on-5 sudden death format.

 

Maybe more importantly, the way the regular season and playoffs are managed by the officials are completely different. It’s as though they are two different sports, really. The regular season rewards speed and skill. The playoffs reward grinding, relentlessness, size, and defence. In short, the 2021 NHL reverts to 1998 come playoff time. 

 

I think Bergevin realized this. His D still suffers from the lack of a puck-mover to spell of Petry, but he believed in the “Clydesdale” model of huge, suffocating D-men who could grind the daylights out of more skilled opponents. Over the regular season, it looked crazy - old, slow, plodding. But once the refs shove the whistles up their arses, they look legendary. This is the game they’re built for.

 

One interesting angle is the Habs’ willingness to ice the puck. Of course this is not the goal, but I think they are getting clear coaching instructions that icing is acceptable; it seems to be a strategic option within the defensive game plan. They’re getting away with it too.

agreed, but I noticed a marked improvement even in the regular season when the forwards started supporting the D and Dom's structure was followed. It took a while to get a full 60min of it until the middle of the TOR series

 

M built the team this way, like you mentioned; but having the right coach to implement the needed adjustment was needed.

 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

4 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

agreed, but I noticed a marked improvement even in the regular season when the forwards started supporting the D and Dom's structure was followed. It took a while to get a full 60min of it until the middle of the TOR series

 

M built the team this way, like you mentioned; but having the right coach to implement the needed adjustment was needed.

 

 

Support from the forwards is huge. You see a Hab with the puck, he almost always has a teammate within close range supporting him. Short, quick passes. 

 

I’m less certain that that system is all that much different from Julien’s, actually; and I didn’t see a whole lot of difference between CJ and DD’s teams until the TO series. It all came together - clicked - in Game 6 and we’ve been reaping the rewards ever since.

[alfredoh2009]

1 minute ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Support from the forwards is huge. You see a Hab with the puck, he almost always has a teammate within close range supporting him. Short, quick passes. 

 

I’m less certain that that system is all that much different from Julien’s, actually; and I didn’t see a whole lot of difference between CJ and DD’s teams until the TO series. It all came together - clicked - in Game 6 and we’ve been reaping the rewards ever since.

I listened to most (if not all) the post game media scrums and Dom's comments were consitent in preaching the new structure. When it clicked, he was given a leading question by the media to explain it; when it didn't, he stayed away from throwing any player under the bus and talked about the system.

 

It was also interesting to see how the RDS analysts showed the evolution over a few weeks, whenever I tuned in in the intermissions. (I don't check other stations), specially Guy Boucher. It helped me look at the games differently.

 

So yes, I saw an evolution form CJ to DD and how it clicked in the first round of the series. Cool stuff for a Habs fan!

[BCHabnut]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Support from the forwards is huge. You see a Hab with the puck, he almost always has a teammate within close range supporting him. Short, quick passes. 

 

I’m less certain that that system is all that much different from Julien’s, actually; and I didn’t see a whole lot of difference between CJ and DD’s teams until the TO series. It all came together - clicked - in Game 6 and we’ve been reaping the rewards ever since.

In the D zone, the Habs remind me of aJaques Martin team. Breakout too. In the O zone, I think they're free to do what they want until it's backcheck time. They seem very good at knowing when to forecheck and when to get back to 1-3-1.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

The wingers are doing far better at puck support in the Dzone. They are also very aggressive with the opponents Dmen in our zone. 
 

Our big Dmen are not letting very much get to our net. Heat maps show perimeter and point shots mostly. 
 

Forwards are being aggressive with forecheck for the most part and they win a bunch of board battles. 

We are doing really well at controlling the neutral zone too. We are not giving up near as many rush chances. 
 

Everyone is supporting everyone in every area of the ice. 

 

Ducharme and his crew have done great - we are in the finals 

[Sir_Boagalott]

The funny thing is I believe I have figured out what the system is and I would not explain it as the forwards started supporting the D.  I strongly believe that its the other way around and its like they are basically reversing their roles.  

 

The wingers are doing far better at puck support in the Dzone but thats technically due to the dmen being aggressive with forecheck.  

 

ex:  typically when a team breaks out of their own zone the other teams dmen skate backwards towards their own zone.  However, the Habs dmen are not baking up, they move forward and forecheck.   

 

The Habs Forwards are a lot faster skating in a forward direction towards Price than the Habs dmen can skate backwards facing the other teams net.  Therefore, instead of the Habs dmen skating backwards they move forward and check, and the Habs forwards skate back in behind the dmen and basically take their place.  

 

When the Habs D forecheck aggressively in that manner it causes turnovers and then the Habs speedy forwards are already behind their dmen and end up with the puck.

 

For some reason watching it in action sorta reminds me of playing Tetris or Chess.  

 

 

[alfredoh2009]

16 hours ago, Sir_Boagalott said:

The funny thing is I believe I have figured out what the system is and I would not explain it as the forwards started supporting the D.  I strongly believe that its the other way around and its like they are basically reversing their roles.  

 

The wingers are doing far better at puck support in the Dzone but thats technically due to the dmen being aggressive with forecheck.  

 

ex:  typically when a team breaks out of their own zone the other teams dmen skate backwards towards their own zone.  However, the Habs dmen are not baking up, they move forward and forecheck.   

 

The Habs Forwards are a lot faster skating in a forward direction towards Price than the Habs dmen can skate backwards facing the other teams net.  Therefore, instead of the Habs dmen skating backwards they move forward and check, and the Habs forwards skate back in behind the dmen and basically take their place.  

 

When the Habs D forecheck aggressively in that manner it causes turnovers and then the Habs speedy forwards are already behind their dmen and end up with the puck.

 

For some reason watching it in action sorta reminds me of playing Tetris or Chess.  

 

 

I think you got that right

 

mall in all, Don’s system is definitively different and better suited for thus roster 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

On a related note, you have to be impressed with how Luke Richardson has stepped in so seamlessly. His pressers are great as well. I suspect there is a head coaching gig in his near future, although he may, like Larry Robinson, be temperamentally better-suited to be associate coach.

[GHT120]

39 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

On a related note, you have to be impressed with how Luke Richardson has stepped in so seamlessly. His pressers are great as well. I suspect there is a head coaching gig in his near future, although he may, like Larry Robinson, be temperamentally better-suited to be associate coach.

My guess would be that it might require an AHL stint to substantiate the brief success he is having now with another coaches' team and system ... his prior AHL stint had mixed results (admittedly always difficult as an AHL roster depends on the NHL team's drafting/signings, and in-season needs) ... or another season or two in Montreal in which the team has regular season success ... hiring a coach is always easier to sell to fans if the new HC comes from a winning program.

[alfredoh2009]

6 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

45 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

temperamentally better-suited to be associate coach.

My guess would be that it might require an AHL stint to substantiate the brief success he is having now with another coaches' team and system ... his prior AHL stint had

He has done that already, with the baby Sens.

 

Richardson would make an excellent head coach in most NHzl teams.

it’s a matter of him deciding what he wants to do next

[GHT120]

3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

He has done that already, with the baby Sens.

 

Richardson would make an excellent head coach in most NHzl teams.

it’s a matter of him deciding what he wants to do next

***NOT*** saying he wouldn't make a good HC ... just that until this playoff run there was little success on his resume for another team to sell to their fans if they hired him.

 

He only had moderate success with Birmingham (two first round exits followed by two playoff misses)  ... the Islanders didn't make the playoffs the year he coached there and the Habs finished out of the playoffs his first year ... made the tournament despite finishing 24th in his second ... and 18th this season.

 

If Habs have a strong season next year that could be what he needs to make the jump.

[alfredoh2009]

5 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

***NOT*** saying he wouldn't make a good HC ... just that until this playoff run there was little success on his resume for another team to sell to their fans if they hired him.

 

He only had moderate success with Birmingham (two first round exits followed by two playoff misses)  ... the Islanders didn't make the playoffs the year he coached there and the Habs finished out of the playoffs his first year ... made the tournament despite finishing 24th in his second ... and 18th this season.

 

If Habs have a strong season next year that could be what he needs to make the jump.

since we are arguing our interpretation and shooting the breeze here.

 

No way, I say he is a top candidate for a head coaching job in the NHL. Way less experienced candidates are getting hired. Hakstol hasn't won a thing before being hired.

[GHT120]

3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

... Hakstol hasn't won a thing before being hired.

Six Frozen Fours in 11 seasons at UoND is a pretty solid rep to "market" ... especially in a US city ... and a .570 Pts% in 277 games with Philly is solid 

 

Only one vacant position at the moment ... Arizona ... although some teams may be considering a change ... 

[tomh009]

4 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

No way, I say he is a top candidate for a head coaching job in the NHL. Way less experienced candidates are getting hired.

So ... has he been practising his French with Bouchard? 🤪

[Sir_Boagalott]

4 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Way less experienced candidates are getting hired.

Yep, thats true.  

[Sir_Boagalott]

 

9 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I think you got that right

 

mall in all, Don’s system is definitively different and better suited for thus roster 

 

Yes, this current system is an absolutely perfect fit for this exact team.  Its unarguable that the Habs Dmen have 2 major deficiencies:  1)  they're big so they're slow, 2) numerous D are not good puck moving dmen.  

 

With this system, the Habs dmen speed is a non factor when they dont have to skate back.  Furthermore, the fact the Habs D arent good at 1st passes becomes irrelevant.  i.e. the Habs forwards are the ones that are back and the 1st to touch the puck in their own zone.  The Forwards are fine at doing the 1st passes.  

[hab29RETIRED]

11 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

On a related note, you have to be impressed with how Luke Richardson has stepped in so seamlessly. His pressers are great as well. I suspect there is a head coaching gig in his near future, although he may, like Larry Robinson, be temperamentally better-suited to be associate coach.

I’m just shocked Molson didn’t make the usual sorry for having a non-Francophone temporary coach🙄

[Commandant]

11 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I’m just shocked Molson didn’t make the usual sorry for having a non-Francophone temporary coach🙄

 

Richardson has spoken some french in press conferences 

[GHT120]

5 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Richardson has spoken some french in press conferences 

A little bit goes a long way ... maybe not as a full-time hire, but certainly in this situation ... besides, unlike when Martin was fired, the Habs are winning.

[alfredoh2009]

game 4's lineup and preparation will be interesting to see; but even if Dom is not a factor in the Stanley cup final, I think he will come back next season

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

game 4's lineup and preparation will be interesting to see; but even if Dom is not a factor in the Stanley cup final, I think he will come back next season

He should be and will be. 
 

I have outlined my concerns with Ducharme but he got us this far and under less than ideal circumstances. The condensed season and lack of practice times followed by playoffs. 
 

He deserves another shot (I personally don’t want him as coach)

[alfredoh2009]

Thanks for replying @Prime Minister Koivu

 

I am so bored that I replied to a bunch of old threads.

 

 

[GHT120]

Ducharme to speak to press later this afternoon (3:30? ... TSN690 covering it whenever, so maybe tune in to the station) followed by Bergevin

 

Wonder if MB doesn't make a "special guest" appearance to announce an extension to start DD's presser ... or at least they announce before DD speaks that contract questions are off the table ... but I will be shocked if an extension isn't announced by the end off MB's presser.

[dlbalr]

4 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Ducharme to speak to press later this afternoon (3:30? ... TSN690 covering it whenever, so maybe tune in to the station) followed by Bergevin

 

Wonder if MB doesn't make a "special guest" appearance to announce an extension to start DD's presser ... or at least they announce before DD speaks that contract questions are off the table ... but I will be shocked if an extension isn't announced by the end off MB's presser.

 

It didn't happen today but it sure sounds like it'll be done soon.

[GHT120]

Burrows is a possibility as the HC job in Laval ... Richardson's contract up ... Burke is actually the Director of goaltending, not the goaltending coach ... depending on how things play out, Ducharme may have to build a complete new staff.