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2021/2022 Lineup Ideas


hockeyrealist
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3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

isn't Bozak very old and less effective than Staal was last year?

Bozak: 31Games  5g12a17pts 56.8FO%

Staal:   53Games 5g8a13pts 49FO%

 

why not Staal instead? He was better

 

Based on those numbers, how was Staal better? Bozak had better faceoffs numbers and more points in fewer games.

 

55 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Really? the two years before

BOZAK:

2018-2019 72 games 13g25a38pts 54.3FO%

2019-2020 67 games 13g16a29pts 55.0FO%

 

E.STAAL:

2018-2019 81 games 22g30a52pts 51.1FO%

2019-2020 66 games 19g28a47pts 49.5FO%

 

:blink: I am missing something here? :spamafote:

 

We're talking about a bottom 6 C, so I don't know how relevant it is to bring up those seasons. Staal was still a 2nd liner back then, getting 17-18 minutes a game and powerplay time. He couldn't even pull off that role in Buffalo and was not very effective for Montreal in a 4th line role on the whole. He had a huge dropoff in 2021 and as your stats indicated, was much less effective that Bozak.

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3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Really? the two years before

BOZAK:

2018-2019 72 games 13g25a38pts 54.3FO%

2019-2020 67 games 13g16a29pts 55.0FO%

 

E.STAAL:

2018-2019 81 games 22g30a52pts 51.1FO%

2019-2020 66 games 19g28a47pts 49.5FO%

 

:blink: I am missing something here? :spamafote:

 

 

Staal was a top-liner those years and we know that he isn't one now; he is a fourth liner at best.  Bozak has been a third-liner in St. Louis for basically his whole stint there and hasn't really slowed down much.  If I'm picking which one is likelier to contribute in the NHL next season, it's Bozak by a country mile.  I still believe he's waiting for St. Louis to free up some money to re-sign him while I don't think there's any sort of market for Staal.

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14 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

Staal was a top-liner those years and we know that he isn't one now; he is a fourth liner at best.  Bozak has been a third-liner in St. Louis for basically his whole stint there and hasn't really slowed down much.  If I'm picking which one is likelier to contribute in the NHL next season, it's Bozak by a country mile.  I still believe he's waiting for St. Louis to free up some money to re-sign him while I don't think there's any sort of market for Staal.

I have not seen Bozak play, so I do not know how good he is.

 

But the numbers do not show that he is miles better. Staal suffers from back problems and is not very good when hurt; but when he is is good shape he is effective. A heavy checking line of Paquette-Staal-Armia or Lehkonen-Staal-Armia would be very good

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The point of getting Bozak is that, as of last season at least, he is a legitimate 35-40-point checking C who may help to insulate our young C on a patchwork basis.

 

We saw what Staal is last season at this point his career: a 4th-line C at best.

 

I do not understand the point of championing for Staal’s return. We have lots of 4th-line/borderline guys. What we need is a veteran C who can play in the top-9.

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I think that signing Paquette and Perreault was a waste and instead we should of signed a better center like a Bozak or trade for a better 3rd line center. Playoffs aren't going to be easy to make this year like the last 2 years and if this is the team going into the season...... I don't see us making the playoffs. 

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49 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The point of getting Bozak is that, as of last season at least, he is a legitimate 35-40-point checking C who may help to insulate our young C on a patchwork basis.

 

We saw what Staal is last season at this point his career: a 4th-line C at best.

 

I do not understand the point of championing for Staal’s return. We have lots of 4th-line/borderline guys. What we need is a veteran C who can play in the top-9.

If Bozak was as good as most suggest, how come he is still available?

again, I have not seen him play; I just want to understand why he is so well regarded

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6 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

If Bozak was as good as most suggest, how come he is still available?

again, I have not seen him play; I just want to understand why he is so well regarded

 

I have not scouted him either. But he is generally regarded as having been a quality 3rd-line C for the Blues whose game shows no sign of drop-off. His numbers bear that out. Of course, at 35, his game could crater at any time; but thus far, he has been, by all accounts I've read, a fine top-9 C.

 

I would guess that he is still available because his preference is to play for the Blues. But the longer things drag out with them, the more interested he will be in playing elsewhere, I'm sure.

 

He seems to be by far the best option still out there in terms of a patch-up, short-term C who could help us.

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28 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I have not scouted him either. But he is generally regarded as having been a quality 3rd-line C for the Blues whose game shows no sign of drop-off. His numbers bear that out. Of course, at 35, his game could crater at any time; but thus far, he has been, by all accounts I've read, a fine top-9 C.

 

I would guess that he is still available because his preference is to play for the Blues. But the longer things drag out with them, the more interested he will be in playing elsewhere, I'm sure.

 

He seems to be by far the best option still out there in terms of a patch-up, short-term C who could help us.

OK, thanks!

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3 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I have not seen Bozak play, so I do not know how good he is.

 

But the numbers do not show that he is miles better. Staal suffers from back problems and is not very good when hurt; but when he is is good shape he is effective. A heavy checking line of Paquette-Staal-Armia or Lehkonen-Staal-Armia would be very good

 

The recent numbers certainly show that (in my opinion) and Staal turns 37 in October.  It's fair to question whether he can get back to the form of a few years ago.  I don't think he can with all the wear and tear he has had over the years.  Bozak is 35 so the health concerns aren't quite as strong.

 

I'm not fundamentally opposed to the idea of having Staal back on a cheap mentorship deal with an emphasis on cheap but his play last season suggests he's no more than a fourth line centre at best.  With his age and mileage in terms of games played, it's hard to foresee a magic turnaround to him getting back to the level he was with Minnesota; most players don't have a resurgence at 37.

 

Bozak has his own injury issues but as a right-shot centre that is well above average on faceoffs, he fills a couple of areas of need relative to Staal (a lefty who has struggled to get to 50% the last couple of years).  He's a little younger so the drop off shouldn't be quite as steep.

 

With where they are at the respective stages of their careers, Bozak can still play on an NHL third line.  Staal's performance last season showed that it's unlikely he'll be able to get back to that level; what he did three seasons ago doesn't matter much in that context.  It's a 'what have you done for me lately' type of question and that favours Bozak over Staal.

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1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

If Bozak was as good as most suggest, how come he is still available?

again, I have not seen him play; I just want to understand why he is so well regarded

Don't know that anyone is suggesting he is "good" (i.e., legit top 6 option) ... just that amongst UFA centres he looks like the best or poor options for a veteran to support the kids (Suzuki, KK, Evans and Poehling).

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1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

... Playoffs aren't going to be easy to make this year like the last 2 years and if this is the team going into the season...... I don't see us making the playoffs. 

And with the reputed strength/deep/quality of the next two drafts these are not seasons to either just fall short or go one-and-done.

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58 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

If Bozak was as good as most suggest, how come he is still available?

again, I have not seen him play; I just want to understand why he is so well regarded

 

I don't think anyone holds Bozak in especially high regard. I don't think anyone is even saying he is that good. It's just that Staal was ineffective last year, while Bozak was still serviceable. 

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1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

I don't see us making the playoffs. 

Correct, is opinion of most folks (or should be) given current roster as well the strength of teams in Habs division.

 

Not sure simply adding a old declining 3rd line centre will put them over the top, or be worth the cost for one that actually fits well?:spamafote:

 

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55 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

And with the reputed strength/deep/quality of the next two drafts these are not seasons to either just fall short or go one-and-done.

 

Falling just short is the worst case scenario. At least if you are well out of a playoff spot you can sell off pieces for picks and create cap space for the following year.  One and done is not much better. 

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2 hours ago, DON said:

Correct, is opinion of most folks (or should be) given current roster as well the strength of teams in Habs division.

 

Not sure simply adding a old declining 3rd line centre will put them over the top, or be worth the cost for one that actually fits well?:spamafote:

 

 

For me the point is to offer the young C some insulation. That will make the team better, but it will also avoid a scenario where KK, Evans, or even Suzuki are floundering without any life-preserver, which is always a worst-case scenario with young guys.

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1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Falling just short is the worst case scenario. At least if you are well out of a playoff spot you can sell off pieces for picks and create cap space for the following year.  One and done is not much better. 

Could be worse, could be a team that trades a 1st & 4th round pick (for a Foligno) and is up 3-1 in 1st round, then loses 3 straight and add on player does nothing.:)

 

17 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

For me the point is to offer the young C some insulation. That will make the team better, but it will also avoid a scenario where KK, Evans, or even Suzuki are floundering without any life-preserver, which is always a worst-case scenario with young guys.

I know, i just think wait and see is what will happen and i am not opposed to that, at this point given the moves already made this off season.

:pray: i know isnt much of a plan, but anyways, see how plays out and 'hope' for the best.

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27 minutes ago, DON said:

Could be worse, could be a team that trades a 1st & 4th round pick (for a Foligno) and is up 3-1 in 1st round, then loses 3 straight and add on player does nothing.:)

 

 

True, it could be worse. The Leafs didn't have a 1st round pick the year before either because they had to give it up to dump Marleau's salary.  Bad cap management. No first round pick for 2 years in a row is going to come back and bite them. The Leafs are definitely in win now mode.  Huge pressure on the Leafs this year.

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1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

True, it could be worse. The Leafs didn't have a 1st round pick the year before either because they had to give it up to dump Marleau's salary.  Bad cap management. No first round pick for 2 years in a row is going to come back and bite them. The Leafs are definitely in win now mode.  Huge pressure on the Leafs this year.

:popcorn: and ever since 1967 :popcorn:

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11 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

If Bozak was as good as most suggest, how come he is still available?

again, I have not seen him play; I just want to understand why he is so well regarded

If stall is better. Why isn’t he signed yet??

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Just now, hab29RETIRED said:

If stall is better. Why isn’t he signed yet??

Good come back ;)

 

My point was that Staal on a cheap contract is as valid as Bozak on a more expensive contract. We know how well/poorly Staal can play but we do not know it Bozak would fit in the roster over the term he will probably want

 

but what the hoogle-poodle-doodle do I know 

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7 hours ago, DON said:

Could be worse, could be a team that trades a 1st & 4th round pick (for a Foligno) and is up 3-1 in 1st round, then loses 3 straight and add on player does nothing.:)

 

I know, i just think wait and see is what will happen and i am not opposed to that, at this point given the moves already made this off season.

:pray: i know isnt much of a plan, but anyways, see how plays out and 'hope' for the best.

Not any worse than us moving a 1st and a 2nd for Alex Tanguay back in the day.

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Where does Anisimov fit in comparison to Bozak and Staal? A 13th forward? or a poor man's 3rd-line C?

https://www.yardbarker.com/nhl/articles/free_agent_profile_artem_anisimov/s1_14825_35689715

 

Numbers are not great, but he may be a depth center that can provide depth

 

ANISIMOV

2018-2019 78 games 13g25a38pts 54.3FO%

2019-2020 49 games 13g16a29pts 55.0FO%

2020-2021 19 games    2g7a9pts 40.9FO%

 

 BOZAK:

2018-2019 72 games 13g25a38pts 54.3FO%

2019-2020 67 games 13g16a29pts 55.0FO%

2020-202131 games    5g12a17pts 56.8FO%

 

E.STAAL:

2018-2019 81 games 22g30a52pts 51.1FO%

2019-2020 66 games 19g28a47pts 49.5FO%

2020-2021 53 games 5g8a13pts 49FO%

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6 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Where does Anisimov fit in comparison to Bozak and Staal? A 13th forward? or a poor man's 3rd-line C?

https://www.yardbarker.com/nhl/articles/free_agent_profile_artem_anisimov/s1_14825_35689715

 

Numbers are not great, but he may be a depth center that can provide depth

 

I have to admit, I'm digging pretty deep into the list of free agents for my writeups in that series and Anisimov's name never came up for consideration nor was he in my top 75 when we were doing the voting last month for our rankings.  (The Yardbarker article is a PHR repost.)

 

Anisimov looked more than a step behind the play last season in the games I saw him.  Offensively, he's good enough to improve the floor on the fourth line in terms of offence but I question if the added production would be enough to offset his defensive weaknesses.  I don't think he's worth signing unless it was a training camp PTO to see if there's anything left in the tank.

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1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

I have to admit, I'm digging pretty deep into the list of free agents for my writeups in that series and Anisimov's name never came up for consideration nor was he in my top 75 when we were doing the voting last month for our rankings.  (The Yardbarker article is a PHR repost.)

 

Anisimov looked more than a step behind the play last season in the games I saw him.  Offensively, he's good enough to improve the floor on the fourth line in terms of offence but I question if the added production would be enough to offset his defensive weaknesses.  I don't think he's worth signing unless it was a training camp PTO to see if there's anything left in the tank.

like Frolik

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