Signing Cole Caufield contract

[Prime Minister Koivu]

On 4/17/2023 at 12:18 PM, tomh009 said:

We have some promising prospects that were not top 10, either:

• Caufield 15th
• Guhle 16th
• Beck 33rd
• Hutson 62nd

No, not ranking these at Pastrnak's level, at least not yet. This is just to point out that the Habs, too, have made some decent picks lately.

Im seeing increased twitter crap expressing concerns that Caufield is going to get offer sheeted. 

[DON]

31 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Im seeing increased twitter crap expressing concerns that Caufield is going to get offer sheeted. 

Is that a bad thing?

He is getting huge raise to begin with, if some other GM wants to go overboard, take the picks and move on.

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

33 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Im seeing increased twitter crap expressing concerns that Caufield is going to get offer sheeted. 

 

Things seem to have gone quiet on the contract front.  I am guessing the shoulder injury has slowed things down as a few months ago Gorton said they would get things done.  Have HuGo said anything recently? 

 

An offer sheet for Caulfield is a lot different than an offer sheet for KK as we have more information on the player Caulfield is going to be.  It would cost the team making the offer a lot more. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

3 minutes ago, DON said:

Is that a bad thing?

He is getting huge raise to begin with, if some other GM wants to go overboard, take the picks and move on.

 

 

I feel the same way. If some GM wants to get really stupid then take the picks. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

6 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I feel the same way. If some GM wants to get really stupid then take the picks. 

 

Are you guys bonkers? Caufield is likely a frigging 50-goal scorer. He is what you would be hoping desperately to acquire with those picks in the first place!

 

Good teams need to lock up their top-end prospects. The alternative is eternal rebuilding, i.e., madness.

 

I swear some fans are more excited about draft picks than they are about actual elite players on their teams. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

6 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Are you guys bonkers? Caufield is likely a frigging 50-goal scorer. He is what you would be hoping desperately to acquire with those picks in the first place!

 

Good teams need to lock up their top-end prospects. The alternative is eternal rebuilding, i.e., madness.

 

I swear some fans are more excited about draft picks than they are about actual elite players on their teams. 

 

My preference would certainly be to sign Caulfield to a 7/8 year, 7.5-8m per year contract. That's what I would really like to see. I am a big fan of Caulfield. 

 

BUT what if some GM put an offer of more than 10.5M/year (doubtful) on the table. Would you match it or take 4 1st round picks? That's the scenario I am talking about. 

 

I am guessing an offer sheet would be between 8.4 and 10.5, then the Habs would have a decision to make. Hopefully it doesn't come to that and the Habs sign him before then. 

 

I am not more excited about picks than Caulfield but the contract has to be somewhat reasonable. 

 

I am concerned that he hasn't signed by now. Maybe Caulfield is thinking he can put up Pastrnak like numbers. 

 

[GHT120]

26 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

... I am concerned that he hasn't signed by now. Maybe Caulfield is thinking he can put up Pastrnak like numbers. 

 

The issue may be as much term as AAV ... 1-2 more years likely sees the "Covid escrow" re-paid and the cap starting to climb by more than million-dollar increments ... so CC may, as you suggest, want to gamble on himself and assume the risk of a shorter -term deal.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

17 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

The issue may be as much term as AAV ... 1-2 more years likely sees the "Covid escrow" re-paid and the cap starting to climb by more than million-dollar increments ... so CC may, as you suggest, want to gamble on himself and assume the risk of a shorter -term deal.

 Yes, I am thinking the issue is likely term. Pastrnak timed it well, was becoming a UFA just as he was entering his prime and put up big numbers.  That's the choice a player has to make, bet on yourself and take a shorter term contract or take the security of a longer term contract. Marchand took the security of a longer term contract and it didn't turn out as well, he would have made a lot of more money with an initial shorter term contract. But maybe money wasn't as important to him. I guess it depends on how confident a player is and the value they place on security. Every player is different. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 hour ago, DON said:

Is that a bad thing?

He is getting huge raise to begin with, if some other GM wants to go overboard, take the picks and move on.

 

 

1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I feel the same way. If some GM wants to get really stupid then take the picks. 

 

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Are you guys bonkers? Caufield is likely a frigging 50-goal scorer. He is what you would be hoping desperately to acquire with those picks in the first place!

 

Good teams need to lock up their top-end prospects. The alternative is eternal rebuilding, i.e., madness.

 

I swear some fans are more excited about draft picks than they are about actual elite players on their teams. 

Im with Cucumber

 

We already have that 50 goal scorer. Even if there was an offer that warrants the 4 firsts, what is the likelihood we get a 50 goal scorer in there?

 

Im expecting a contract similar to Suzuki 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

10 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

We already have that 50 goal scorer. Even if there was an offer that warrants the 4 firsts, what is the likelihood we get a 50 goal scorer in there?

 

Im expecting a contract similar to Suzuki 

 

 

He hasn't scored 50 yet, he was on pace for 46 although it wouldn't surprise me if he scored 50.

 

If he was offered a long term contract from someone else at 11M/year then Hughes has a very big decision to make and it won't be an easy one. 

 

I'm expecting Caulfield will get a better contract than Suzuki. 

[Commandant]

2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Im seeing increased twitter crap expressing concerns that Caufield is going to get offer sheeted. 

 

this is not possible. 

 

He is an exclusive rights free agent, not a restricted free agent. 

 

Offer sheets are not allowed on him this summer. 

 

If he signs a one year deal, then he could be offer sheeted next year, but there is no chance this year. 

[DON]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I swear some fans are more excited about draft picks than they are about actual elite players on their teams. 

Cant control being offer sheeted.

Cant control GMs make horrendous overpays.

DO you know why Weber is still on a contract.. Nashville said "F..K you Philly...Weber is a core elite piece!"

 

Did it help Nashville any to overpay?

 

So, what might seem bonkers, may not be that out to lunch. BUT, all moot and he will unlikley be offer sheeted and sooner or later will sign a Suzuki-like contract I fully expect.

[tomh009]

2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Are you guys bonkers? Caufield is likely a frigging 50-goal scorer. He is what you would be hoping desperately to acquire with those picks in the first place!

 

Good teams need to lock up their top-end prospects. The alternative is eternal rebuilding, i.e., madness.

 

I swear some fans are more excited about draft picks than they are about actual elite players on their teams. 

Thank you! Even if we were to get two first-round picks for Caufield, a mid-first-round pick only has roughly a 60% probability of playing 100% games in the NHL. The probability of picking up someone at Caufield's level? Far, far smaller. And bottom-feeder teams (with early picks) are not going to be sending otu offer sheets.

[tomh009]

1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

The issue may be as much term as AAV ... 1-2 more years likely sees the "Covid escrow" re-paid and the cap starting to climb by more than million-dollar increments ... so CC may, as you suggest, want to gamble on himself and assume the risk of a shorter -term deal.

According to Caufield's comments, he is not involved in any contract negotiations yet, so these are still at a fairly early stage, between his agent and Hughes, with no known roadblocks at this time.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

6 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Thank you! Even if we were to get two first-round picks for Caufield, a mid-first-round pick only has roughly a 60% probability of playing 100% games in the NHL. The probability of picking up someone at Caufield's level? Far, far smaller. And bottom-feeder teams (with early picks) are not going to be sending otu offer sheets.

 

There is a big difference between getting 2 x 1st round picks and getting for 4 x 1st round picks.  I think that's what the debate was about.  If some GM made him an offer that allowed 4 x 1st round picks as compensation, would you match?

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

23 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

this is not possible. 

 

He is an exclusive rights free agent, not a restricted free agent. 

 

Offer sheets are not allowed on him this summer. 

 

If he signs a one year deal, then he could be offer sheeted next year, but there is no chance this year. 

 

Thanks for clearing that up. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

50 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

this is not possible. 

 

He is an exclusive rights free agent, not a restricted free agent. 

 

Offer sheets are not allowed on him this summer. 

 

If he signs a one year deal, then he could be offer sheeted next year, but there is no chance this year. 

 

I guess these writers have no clue.

 

https://brotherlypuck.com/2022/12/13/the-flyers-should-offer-sheet-cole-caufield/

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-predicting-cole-caufield-next-contract/

 

 

 

 

[Commandant]

16 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I guess these writers have no clue.

 

https://brotherlypuck.com/2022/12/13/the-flyers-should-offer-sheet-cole-caufield/

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-predicting-cole-caufield-next-contract/

 

 

 

 

 

Yup, they have no clue.

 

He's a 10.2c not offer sheet eligible.

[tomh009]

1 hour ago, Commandant said:

He is an exclusive rights free agent, not a restricted free agent. 

 

Offer sheets are not allowed on him this summer. 

 

If he signs a one year deal, then he could be offer sheeted next year, but there is no chance this year. 

I thought the "exclusive rights" applied to players with only one or two years in the NHL--but Caufield has three, including the one he burnt in the spring of 2021. Or does that one not count?

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

9 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I thought the "exclusive rights" applied to players with only one or two years in the NHL--but Caufield has three, including the one he burnt in the spring of 2021. Or does that one not count?

 

 

Below was from the article by Blaine Potvin, I'll put my money on what Commandant says.  

 

 

Caufield’s Next Deal

Since Caufield played 10 games in his first season after he signed his ELC out of college and then played two more seasons (if 2022-23 is included), he will become a restricted free agent (RFA) who can receive an offer sheet. After the revenge offer sheet that saw Jesperi Kotkaniemi leave for the Carolina Hurricanes, the Canadiens are understandably sensitive to this issue and would be looking to ensure he is signed before July 1, 2023.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

I was doing some research to try and understand this 10.2c RFA. The closest comparison I could find was Quinn  Hughes.  He was similar to Caufield in that he signed when he was 20 and played a few games his first year out of college.  He was designated as 10.2c RFA when his 3 year contract was up.  On cap friendly Caulfield shows as RFA status when his 3 year contract is up. 

 

I trust Commandant is right but I am now confused.  Hopefully somebody smarter than I am can explain this 10.2c RFA thing. 

[huzer]

7 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I was doing some research to try and understand this 10.2c RFA. The closest comparison I could find was Quinn  Hughes.  He was similar to Caufield in that he signed when he was 20 and played a few games his first year out of college.  He was designated as 10.2c RFA when his 3 year contract was up.  On cap friendly Caulfield shows as RFA status when his 3 year contract is up. 

 

I trust Commandant is right but I am now confused.  Hopefully somebody smarter than I am can explain this 10.2c RFA thing. 

 

Hughes didn't meet the service requirements in the first season, as he only played 5 games. While that burns a contract year, it does not count as a year of professional experience. Caufield player 10 in his first season, which does count as a year of professional service. I don't see why, according to the CBA, Caufield isn't offer sheet eligible, other than we don't want him to be.

 

First SPC Signing Age Eligible for Group 2 Free Agency

18 - 21 3 years professional experience

 

For the purposes of this Section 10.2(a), a Player aged 18 or 19 earns a

year of professional experience by playing ten (10) or more NHL Games

in a given NHL Season, and a Player aged 20 or older (or who turns 20

between September 16 and December 31 of the year in which he signs his

first SPC) earns a year of professional experience by playing ten (10) or

more Professional Games under an SPC in a given League Year.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I have no idea how it works for Caufield. 
 

Probably should just sign him 

[Commandant]

2 hours ago, tomh009 said:

I thought the "exclusive rights" applied to players with only one or two years in the NHL--but Caufield has three, including the one he burnt in the spring of 2021. Or does that one not count?

 

That doesn't count.... burning a year of an ELC, and having a season of accrued experience for contract puprposes (RFA, Arbitration, UFA) are not the same.  He wasn't on the roster for half of the season

 

"An Accrued Season is defined as a year in which a skater is on an NHL roster for at least 40 games (30 games for Goalies).  If a player is on the NHL team's roster but injured, the team's games count towards the 40 game minimum. "

[dlbalr]

3 hours ago, huzer said:

 

Hughes didn't meet the service requirements in the first season, as he only played 5 games. While that burns a contract year, it does not count as a year of professional experience. Caufield player 10 in his first season, which does count as a year of professional service. I don't see why, according to the CBA, Caufield isn't offer sheet eligible, other than we don't want him to be.

 

First SPC Signing Age Eligible for Group 2 Free Agency

18 - 21 3 years professional experience

 

For the purposes of this Section 10.2(a), a Player aged 18 or 19 earns a

year of professional experience by playing ten (10) or more NHL Games

in a given NHL Season, and a Player aged 20 or older (or who turns 20

between September 16 and December 31 of the year in which he signs his

first SPC) earns a year of professional experience by playing ten (10) or

more Professional Games under an SPC in a given League Year.

 

This is the key phrase.  Caufield played in ten NHL games in his first season which was also his age-20 ELC year when he played 10 or more professional games under his SPC.  Thus, this qualifies as one season toward RFA status.  The difference with Quinn Hughes is that he only played five games in his first year, below the threshold of ten.  Caufield's first year plus these last two put him in actual RFA territory.  To use a Montreal example, Sean Farrell only played in 6 games this season, thus he's 10.2(c) eligible when his deal is up.

 

The citation that Commandant posted above this applies only to eligibility for Group III UFA purposes (Sec. 10.1(a)).  For arbitration purposes, the blurb that Huzer posted is the key one (Sec. 12.1(a)) and is repeated in that section.

 

Of course, the important thing to consider here is how many teams will have the cap space to offer sheet him?  Not just the picks, but close to $10M per year (to make it tough to match) to fit that player in on the roster.  That's a pretty small list.  Caufield getting an offer sheet isn't much of a concern.