2023/2024 season playoff discussion

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

2 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I watched hockey for around 12 straight hours yesterday. Never in my life have I sat on my couch for an entire day watching hockey. 
 

What an unproductive yet glorious day. There was a lot of really great hockey played on Sunday. 

 

Cathal Kelly in The Globe and Mail - yes, like some figure from a lost age, I read the paper - has a piece today on how Bob Cole’s passing underscores how hockey is “in decline.” 

 

In fact, the game is fantastic, the best of my half-century-long lifetime in terms of quality and excitement. That sounds like 12 hours well spent.

 

(By “decline” Kelly seems to mean that the sport no longer occupies the same iconic stature in the Canadian imagination that it once did. I agree with that, but who cares, really?)

 

 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

34 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Cathal Kelly in The Globe and Mail - yes, like some figure from a lost age, I read the paper - has a piece today on how Bob Cole’s passing underscores how hockey is “in decline.” 

 

In fact, the game is fantastic, the best of my half-century-long lifetime in terms of quality and excitement. That sounds like 12 hours well spent.

 

(By “decline” Kelly seems to mean that the sport no longer occupies the same iconic stature in the Canadian imagination that it once did. I agree with that, but who cares, really?)

 

 

The hockey was simply amazing yesterday. 
 

I can’t remember a day with so much exciting hockey, back to back. 
 

I can see a decline in people that care about hockey. Gone are the days of kids playing street hockey. I see kids with basketballs everywhere. 
 

Folks are missing out 

[tomh009]

31 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I can see a decline in people that care about hockey. Gone are the days of kids playing street hockey. I see kids with basketballs everywhere.

Canada is no longer exclusively about hockey, other sports are growing in terms of participation, as you have noticed.

 

On the other hand, more girls and women are playing in Canada. And hockey is still growing in other countries, from the US to the UK.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

21 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Canada is no longer exclusively about hockey, other sports are growing in terms of participation, as you have noticed.

 

On the other hand, more girls and women are playing in Canada. And hockey is still growing in other countries, from the US to the UK.

This is true as well. 
 

The popularity of the new Woman’s league has been incredible. Ive internally started to wonder if I should de facto support Montreal? Would I or could I even consider cheering for Toronto?

 

 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

7 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Cathal Kelly in The Globe and Mail - yes, like some figure from a lost age, I read the paper - has a piece today on how Bob Cole’s passing underscores how hockey is “in decline.” 

 

In fact, the game is fantastic, the best of my half-century-long lifetime in terms of quality and excitement. That sounds like 12 hours well spent.

 

(By “decline” Kelly seems to mean that the sport no longer occupies the same iconic stature in the Canadian imagination that it once did. I agree with that, but who cares, really?)

 

 

 

I think the game is great as well. Maybe Cathal would feel different if the Leafs could actually win a round or two. 

 

His perspective is from Toronto where soccer and basketball are huge partly because large immigrant populations have settled there and enriched these sports. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

13 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I think the game is great as well. Maybe Cathal would feel different if the Leafs could actually win a round or two. 

 

His perspective is from Toronto where soccer and basketball are huge partly because large immigrant populations have settled there and enriched other sports. 

 

Hockey is probably paying a price for all those decades of hyper-conservative whiteness. I don't know what has gone on at lower levels, but the NHL has seldom projected a welcoming vibe to people of colour and immigrants (let alone LGBTQ types, women, etc); and the whole HNIC "small town hockey" ethos further amplified the idea that this sport is really about the fantasies and memories of "old-stock Canadians." I don't care, myself, since I always found that configuration rather grating.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

1 minute ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Hockey is probably paying a price for all those decades of hyper-conservative whiteness. I don't know what has gone on at lower levels, but the NHL has seldom projected a welcoming vibe to people of colour and immigrants; and the whole HNIC "small town hockey" ethos further amplified the idea that this sport is really about the fantasies and memories of "old-stock Canadians." I don't care, myself, since I always found that configuration rather grating.

I forget his name but there is that guy who calls games in Punjabi and his broadcasts get good ratings. Maybe hockey is popular among our Indian communities. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

2 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

I forget his name but there is that guy who calls games in Punjabi and his broadcasts get good ratings. Maybe hockey is popular among our Indian communities. 

 

His name is Harnarayan Singh, a great guy and great story. No question that pro hockey in general had a lot of work to do to make people of other cultures feel welcome, the story of Akim Aliu is a prime example of that.  But they are making progress. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I have a colleague from Africa. His son, who was born in Canada, plays hockey at a high level. I was chatting with the kid; his favourite players are Evander Kane and PK Subban. And considering how both of those guys were framed as "problems" for much of their careers, crapped on for not being "good Canadian boys" etc., the game is lucky that he didn't get turned off and go in another direction.

 

The future of hockey in Canada is probably as the leading sport of a number of sports, but no longer THE iconic Canadian thing; similar, really, to how baseball went from being "America's pastime" to one of a number of popular sports. And, as has been noted, the game continues to grow elsewhere. OK by me, although it does bode poorly for Canada's prospects in international play in the long run.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

I like the "hometown hockey" segments. Growing up in a small town I can tell you that without sports (hockey and curling in the winter) and ball in the summer, small towns would be "deadsville".  I can understand why someone growing up in a larger center where there is more to do might not see that. 

[Commandant]

4 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

I have a colleague from Africa. His son, who was born in Canada, plays hockey at a high level. I was chatting with the kid; his favourite players are Evander Kane and PK Subban. And considering how both of those guys were framed as "problems" for much of their careers, crapped on for not being "good Canadian boys" etc., the game is lucky that he didn't get turned off and go in another direction.

 

The future of hockey in Canada is probably as the leading sport of a number of sports, but no longer THE iconic Canadian thing; similar, really, to how baseball went from being "America's pastime" to one of a number of popular sports. And, as has been noted, the game continues to grow elsewhere. OK by me, although it does bode poorly for Canada's prospects in international play in the long run.

 

Pk's reputation was bullshit.

 

Evander Kane has earned his though with a number of run-ins with the law and off ice issues.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

3 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Pk's reputation was bullshit.

 

Evander Kane has earned his though with a number of run-ins with the law and off ice issues.

 

Agree about PK, having a dinosaur for a coach like Therrien didn't help much either.  PK had great passion for the game and had a big heart. 

 

Evander on the other hand has worn out his welcome in many places. A lot of his problems are of his own doing. He has done some good things in Edmonton, got involved in some charitable causes but it seems like his popularity has waned with some teammates the last couple months. Had a terrific game three and can be a force when focused in the right direction. 

 

 

[TurdBurglar]

PK's reputation is largely based on rumors.  A player as good as he was raises questions to why he was traded twice, once in his prime.  This is extremely rare, and cases where it did happen, it came out after there were bigger off-ice issues.  It would lend credibility to the rumors of how PK was behind the scenes.  To say it was all true or all wrong would be equally as wrong.  I would imagine it was somewhere in between. 

 

PK's problem was his attitude and interactions with teammates.  Kane's problems stemmed from his own behavior, most of which weren't hockey-related.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

8 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

PK's reputation is largely based on rumors.  A player as good as he was raises questions to why he was traded twice, once in his prime.  This is extremely rare, and cases where it did happen, it came out after there were bigger off-ice issues.  It would lend credibility to the rumors of how PK was behind the scenes.  To say it was all true or all wrong would be equally as wrong.  I would imagine it was somewhere in between. 

 

PK's problem was his attitude and interactions with teammates.  Kane's problems stemmed from his own behavior, most of which weren't hockey-related.

 

The Preds smartly traded Subban when he had begun his decline. For whatever reason, PK aged out early. So I see that as a pure hockey move.

 

Re: the Montreal trade, the thing I heard about PK was that, once he spearheaded the children's hospital charity, he didn't want to sign jerseys or do other work relating to Habs charities, because he wanted to maximize his value to "his" cause. And that didn't sit too well with the organization or other players. That comes from a former exec with the Habs foundation. Take it for what it's worth.

 

But the wider backlash to Subban, however, was almost instantaneous when he joined the league - long before the hospital thing. And I will never be convinced that that backlash was not informed by subliminal racism. A white kid who acted exactly the same way would have been turned into a Real Canadian Hero by the HNIC/media ecosystem. Instead PK was framed as a "problem" and too big for his britches, needing to learn a lesson, to learn his place. Absolutely the classic response to a swaggering, high-achieving black man. 🙄

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

12 minutes ago, TurdBurglar said:

PK's problem was his attitude and interactions with teammates.  Kane's problems stemmed from his own behavior, most of which weren't hockey-related.

 

I wouldn't agree that PK had an attitude problem. He had a flamboyant, outgoing personality that some people don't like. He didn't fit the mold that some expect a hockey player to have.  He was certainly generous with his charitable giving. I definitely give him the benefit of the doubt on being a good human being. 

 

I can't comment on whether PK was a great teammate or not, maybe he was maybe he wasn't. Only someone who was a teammate for a period of time could give a good assessment on that. 

 

 

[GHT120]

3 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

I wouldn't agree that PK had an attitude problem. He had a flamboyant, outgoing personality that some people don't like.

 

In fairness, all @TurdBurglar said was "PK's problem was his attitude and interactions with teammates" ... not that he had an "attitude problem" ... his attitude and interactions with teammates reflected his flamboyant, outgoing personality ... the management of the era apparently decided it was a problem ... I'm neither defending nor supporting PK, nor denying that race may have played some part in how teammates and other players around the league reacted to him. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

11 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

In fairness, all @TurdBurglar said was "PK's problem was his attitude and interactions with teammates" ... not that he had an "attitude problem" ... 

 

In fairness, I may have misread the intent of what @TurdBurglar was trying to say. 

[Peter Puck]

I think its very lazy and unfair to just attribute (part of )PK's problems to racism.  We have no evidence at all that his teammates or coaches mistreated him due to his race.  The Habs exec I heard from indicated that his teammates felt he put himself ahead of the team.  

 

  Whether he did or not, it is a problem in team sports if your teammates don't have your back.  

 

  

[Commandant]

We had Mike Richards calling him basically uppity and lacking respect to opponents to the media during his first season.  Ive never heard him say those kinds of things about a white player is all im saying.

 

Oh and Richards career kinda ended in disgrace... getting caught at the border smuggling pills.

[hab29RETIRED]

49 minutes ago, Commandant said:

We had Mike Richards calling him basically uppity and lacking respect to opponents to the media during his first season.  Ive never heard him say those kinds of things about a white player is all im saying.

 

Oh and Richards career kinda ended in disgrace... getting caught at the border smuggling pills.

Or what about Pang’s Freudian slip that PK needs to learn to play the “white” way.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Too bad about Toronto, it was a lucky bounce. 
 

Go Canucks and Go Colorado 

[Peter Puck]

5 hours ago, Commandant said:

We had Mike Richards calling him basically uppity and lacking respect to opponents to the media during his first season.  Ive never heard him say those kinds of things about a white player is all im saying.

 

Oh and Richards career kinda ended in disgrace... getting caught at the border smuggling pills.

Maybe Richards just thought Subban was uppity.  Does every criticism of Suban have to be because he was black?  Even if Richards is racist does this mean the reason we traded PK was due to racism? 

[Peter Puck]

4 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Or what about Pang’s Freudian slip that PK needs to learn to play the “white” way.

Maybe it was a slip of the tongue?  Is this proof Pang is racist?

 

One time I heard Bob Cole say a player made a "dumb in" instead of a "dump in".   Can we conclude that Cole was biased against that player?  I certainly didn't.  I forget who the player was but if he was from Newfoundland would that make a difference?

 

  Accusing people of racism just because it fits your narrative is very uncharitable.

[Commandant]

45 minutes ago, Peter Puck said:

Maybe Richards just thought Subban was uppity.  Does every criticism of Suban have to be because he was black?  Even if Richards is racist does this mean the reason we traded PK was due to racism? 

 

I never said he was traded due to racism.

 

That said I think some of the criticisms of him were due to racism, yes.

 

We've had a number of publicized incidents in recent years of clear racism in the sport, its kinda hard to believe that PK never faced it.  Heck there were Habs fans who showed up to a game in blackface, and there were bruins fans calling him the N-word on twitter when he scored an OT goal.  But sure, nothing he faced was ever racist in nature.

[Commandant]

Krys Barch of the Florida Panthers was suspended by the NHL for using a racial slur against Subban in an NHL game.  Bet there is an explanation for that one too, right?