4 Nations Cup: Face-Off - February 12 - 20th, 2025 (Montreal & Boston)

[BCHabnut]

USA was the superior team. 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

USA with a very cohesive defensive performance. We spotted them a free goal, because Binnington, and that was the difference. 

 

I thought MacKinnon was very quiet tonight. McDavid and Marchand seemed to be the two most dangerous Canadian FWs. Then again Matthews did nothing, thank God.

 

Makar would have helped, but of course USA is missing Q. Hughes, so we can’t moan too much about that. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

They better beat Finland now, in regulation. 

[Commandant]

18 minutes ago, BCHabnut said:

USA was the superior team. 

 

USA had the better goalie....

If Canada has a goalie who can stop 40 foot wrist shots with no traffic, its a 1-0 win. 

 

Rematch on Thursday though. 

[BCHabnut]

3 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

USA had the better goalie....

If Canada has a goalie who can stop 40 foot wrist shots with no traffic, its a 1-0 win. 

 

Rematch on Thursday though. 

Ultimately it did come down to goaltending, but it seemed like usa were executing better in all 3 zones. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Binnington let in two weak goals and that was the key difference. 
 

 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I didn’t notice this during the game but JT Miller just punched himself in the face 

 

LOL

[xXx..CK..xXx]

Splitting hairs but the second goal wasn’t a soft goal. Saveable perhaps but also a well placed shot on a 2 on 1. Not the definition of soft. The first goal was soft as Guentzel was able to pass the puck through Binnington but Guentzel was also on a partial breakaway. Again, saveable for any goalie who has their stick on the ice and a good butterfly but it was off another blown coverage on defence.

 

Sidney was already too hard on himself but it was his turnover that cost us the second goal. If Laine/Matheson were to blame for the turnover that led to the New Jersey game winning goal in overtime a few weeks back, then Crosby should take some blame for the second goal against. Of course no one wants to blame Crosby, myself included. 
 

I thought Canada played a good game but didn’t score enough and USA was indeed slightly better overall. The game could have gone either way. They’ll need to move forward and put this game behind them. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

47 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Splitting hairs but the second goal wasn’t a soft goal. Saveable perhaps but also a well placed shot on a 2 on 1. Not the definition of soft. The first goal was soft as Guentzel was able to pass the puck through Binnington but Guentzel was also on a partial breakaway. Again, saveable for any goalie who has their stick on the ice and a good butterfly but it was off another blown coverage on defence.

 

Sidney was already too hard on himself but it was his turnover that cost us the second goal. If Laine/Matheson were to blame for the turnover that led to the New Jersey game winning goal in overtime a few weeks back, then Crosby should take some blame for the second goal against. Of course no one wants to blame Crosby, myself included. 
 

I thought Canada played a good game but didn’t score enough and USA was indeed slightly better overall. The game could have gone either way. They’ll need to move forward and put this game behind them. 

Crosby absolutely deserves blame for that horrible Ozone pass that turned the puck over which led to the rush and goal. 
 

Still, Binnington has to save that shot. Call it soft or call it saveable it’s the same thing to me at this level of hockey. 
 

This game will lead to some roster changes for the Olympics which is a good thing. I expect Wilson to make the team to counter the Tkachuks. 
 

Hopefully a better goalie will emerge by then too

[Prime Minister Koivu]

This is apex level hockey. There is no higher level of hockey on the entire planet.

 

Our goalie needs to cover mistakes because even Crosby makes mistakes once in a blue moon 
 

 

[tomh009]

9 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

They better beat Finland now, in regulation. 

An OT win should be enough…unless the Swedes somehow manage to beat the US.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

Binnington made plenty of saves which covered mistakes to keep his team in it, they are simply being overlooked. He doesn’t need to cover every single mistake to be considered an adequate goalie. 
 

Most of the people complaining about the goaltending after that match either:

 

1) Already had concerns about Binnington prior to that match.

 

or 

 

2) Had the expectation that another one of the three goalies would play that game, once again prior to that match.

 

It’s almost as though they were looking for him to falter.

 

His team scored only one goal so that did not leave him much margin for error. Had Canada won 4-2 there wouldn’t be much talk about the goaltending outside of the 1st goal against. I don’t believe there are many players on the team who fault Binnington for the second goal. 
 

I hate to break it to everyone but it’s not like there is a huge saviour in net. Prior to the tournament I was thinking that I would have started Adin Hill as our number 1 but in reality there’s not much difference between the two (even three) goalies and at this point there’s a real risk baptizing a cold goaltender into the tournament during must win games. Team Canada’s mistake may simply have been not to have Logan Thompson on the team. Outside of that, I think all three goalies are a wash, and one of them has more experience.

 

What I can agree with is that Hellebuyck was the better goalie, but that would be the case against any other goalie in the league as well. 

 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

51 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

An OT win should be enough…unless the Swedes somehow manage to beat the US.

Agreed. I’ve heard a few people say that Canada needs to win in regulation, even though they can advance by beating Finland in any manner.

 

The caveat is that Canada’s game is first on Monday so if we do not win in regulation, this does keep Sweden’s hope alive in the second game, and in a weird way allows USA to control their fate. I don’t expect the USA to do it. It won’t happen. But they could technically choose their opponent in the final and lose to Sweden if they’d prefer to play against them if Canada does not win in regulation but instead overtime or a shootout. At the very least, they’d be free to rest any player of their liking in that matchup, which they may already do anyway. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

2 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Binnington made plenty of saves which covered mistakes to keep his team in it, they are simply being overlooked. He doesn’t need to cover every single mistake to be considered an adequate goalie. 
 

Most of the people complaining about the goaltending after that match either:

 

1) Already had concerns about Binnington prior to that match.

 

or 

 

2) Had the expectation that another one of the three goalies would play that game, once again prior to that match.

 

It’s almost as though they were looking for him to falter.

 

His team scored only one goal so that did not leave him much margin for error. Had Canada won 4-2 there wouldn’t be much talk about the goaltending outside of the 1st goal against. I don’t believe there are many players on the team who fault Binnington for the second goal. 
 

I hate to break it to everyone but it’s not like there is a huge saviour in net. Prior to the tournament I was thinking that I would have started Aiden Hill as our number 1 but in reality there’s not much difference between the two (even three) goalies and at this point there’s a real risk baptizing a cold goaltender into the tournament during must win games. Team Canada’s mistake may simply have been not to have Logan Thompson on the team. Outside of that, I think all three goalies are a wash, and one of them has more experience.

 

What I can agree with is that Hellebuyck was the better goalie, but that would be the case against any other goalie in the league as well. 

 

Definitely accurate that I was concerned about Binnington since he was announced as the starter. 
 

I certainly didn’t want him to falter because I really wanted to win. Trump’s economic warfare on Canada has added another layer to everything. 
 

This wasn’t another hockey game for the players either. Three American players picked fights right out of the gate. The growing boos at American anthem. 
 

I wish Hill would get Monday’s start but Cooper will ride Binnington to the end because of a perception that Binnington rises to big moments. 

[dlbalr]

16 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Agreed. I’ve heard a few people say that Canada needs to win in regulation, even though they can advance by beating Finland in any manner.

 

They do have to win in regulation to clinch.  If they win in OT (2 points) and Sweden beats USA in regulation (3 points), Sweden would have 5 points and Canada 4 so the Swedes would move on.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

4 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

They do have to win in regulation to clinch.  If they win in OT (2 points) and Sweden beats USA in regulation (3 points), Sweden would have 5 points and Canada 4 so the Swedes would move on.

Yes, but they don’t need to win in order to be able to advance. They could win in overtime and Sweden could win in overtime or lose their match allowing Canada to still advance without a regulation win. It’s not imperative that they win in regulation, just much better.

 

The difference is simply in the terminology. If people are saying that they need to win in regulation for an automatic clinch, they would be correct. 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

32 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Definitely accurate that I was concerned about Binnington since he was announced as the starter. 
 

I certainly didn’t want him to falter because I really wanted to win. Trump’s economic warfare on Canada has added another layer to everything. 
 

This wasn’t another hockey game for the players either. Three American players picked fights right out of the gate. The growing boos at American anthem. 
 

I wish Hill would get Monday’s start but Cooper will ride Binnington to the end because of a perception that Binnington rises to big moments. 

Canada simply doesn’t have great goaltending relative to their competition, period. 
 

 

 

That pre-season list had Binnington 11th in the league and Hill as an honourable mention at 15th.

 

Another list:

 

 

 

Finally, ratings in a video game. Yes, I know it’s just a video game so please do not come at me. I’m simply adding it to show that the two goalies are relatively equal, as well as the fact that they are in a similar bracket to goalies like “Kochetkov” and “Jarry”. Take these ratings with a grain of salt as I wouldn’t blame you. (Montembeault is an 83)

 

I’m not saying all these ratings are perfect. I know many people will be against them. But it’s more to point out that it’s not like any of our goalies are top 5 in the league at the moment, so we can’t expect any of them to be top 5. Regardless if its Binnington or one of the other goaltenders. If we had Thompson on the squad, I’d say go with him.

 

The one area that stood out to me reading the end of Binnington’s paragraph there was the relationship between Doug Armstrong being the GM of both St. Louis as well as Team Canada. 
 

With John Cooper having and playing Hagel, Cirelli and Point (Point should be) a lot and Binnington being on the team, there could be a sense of going with familiarity based on the political context of the team. I hope that wouldn’t be the case but one never knowns. I already would have liked having a player like Suzuki on the team over say, Cirelli, and there is once again the argument to have had Logan Thompson on the team.

 

We’ll see how the tournament plays out, but those could end up potentially being decisions which backfire. Thompson being left off being perhaps a little more important than Suzuki.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Binnington made some big saves and he let in one absolute howler plus one legit goal that an elite goalie probably stops. That's not good enough at this level. Period.

 

I agree that our G is weak and would be saying the same things about the other two guys - including Monty - if they had turned in the same performance. 

 

This isn't about demonizing Binnington. It's about understanding why we lost. We lost because the teams are evenly matched except that our G is an average NHL goalie playing in a tournament where that won't cut it.

 

The moderate good news is that Finland, while a good team, is as easy a draw as you're going to get, and therefore a good time to break in Hill. No doubt they'll do that.

 

Personally I trust Monty more than the other two, but I get that he doesn't have pedigree.

 

They should have had the guts to pick Logan Thompson. 

[Prime Minister Koivu]

24 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Canada simply doesn’t have great goaltending relative to their competition, period. 
 

 

 

That pre-season list had Binnington 11th in the league and Hill as an honourable mention at 15th.

 

Another list:

 

 

 

Finally, ratings in a video game. Yes, I know it’s just a video game so please do not come at me. I’m simply adding it to show that the two goalies are relatively equal, as well as the fact that they are in a similar bracket to goalies like “Kochetkov” and “Jarry”. Take these ratings with a grain of salt as I wouldn’t blame you. (Montembeault is an 83)

 

I’m not saying all these ratings are perfect. I know many people will be against them. But it’s more to point out that it’s not like any of our goalies are top 5 in the league at the moment, so we can’t expect any of them to be top 5. Regardless if its Binnington or one of the other goaltenders. If we had Thompson on the squad, I’d say go with him.

 

The one area that stood out to me reading the end of Binnington’s paragraph there was the relationship between Doug Armstrong being the GM of both St. Louis as well as Team Canada. 
 

With John Cooper having and playing Hagel, Cirelli and Point (Point should be) a lot and Binnington being on the team, there could be a sense of going with familiarity based on the political context of the team. I hope that wouldn’t be the case but one never knowns. I already would have liked having a player like Suzuki on the team over say, Cirelli, and there is once again the argument to have had Logan Thompson on the team.

 

We’ll see how the tournament plays out, but those could end up potentially being decisions which backfire. Thompson being left off being perhaps a little more important than Suzuki.

All of this is true even if we quibble about the rankings. 
 

Canada doesn’t have an elite goalie. Well Canada does but his knee is toast beyond toast and can’t play. 
 

This is what I meant about apex hockey. Every single player on both teams are elite or very close to it except Canada’s goalie. 
 

At this level every mistake results in a chance against. 
 

 

[xXx..CK..xXx]

19 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

All of this is true even if we quibble about the rankings. 
 

Canada doesn’t have an elite goalie. Well Canada does but his knee is toast beyond toast and can’t play. 
 

This is what I meant about apex hockey. Every single player on both teams are elite or very close to it except Canada’s goalie. 
 

At this level every mistake results in a chance against. 
 

 

I didn’t see this article until this moment but I think it’s a pretty good summary which covers both sides of the coin.

 

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/jordan-binngton-has-had-some-brainfarts-but-canadas-offense-needs-to-wake-up-too

 

Where’s Canada’s offense?

 

Sam Reinhart, who? I haven’t been impressed. In fact, some of the line combinations seem to be an odd fit. 
 

As much as we’re hating on Binnington, with 1 assist he’s tied for 3rd in points. 
 

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

11 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

I didn’t see this article until this moment but I think it’s a pretty good summary which covers both sides of the coin.

 

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/jordan-binngton-has-had-some-brainfarts-but-canadas-offense-needs-to-wake-up-too

 

Where’s Canada’s offense?

 

Sam Reinhart, who? I haven’t been impressed. In fact, some of the line combinations seem to be an odd fit. 
 

As much as we’re hating on Binnington, with 1 assist he’s tied for 3rd in points. 

 

A fair article, except for its construction of 'good old days' where Canada steamrolls everyone and now other teams have 'caught up.'

 

The fact is, these things ebb and flow. Canada has been a steamroller some years and not others. While we are always in the mix at the very top of hockey nations, best on best is seldom a walk in the park for us. Remember 2010...we won in OT.

 

The position player who most disappointed me last night was MacKinnon. With Crosby having a down night, we needed him to step up, and he didn't. 

 

A lot of this has to do with cohesion. The USA has, like boxed oatmeal, come together almost instantly to play a very focused, cohesive game on the ice. By contrast, a higher % of Canada's passes were not quite clicking; you could see guys taking an extra micro-second to read the other guys. 

 

I remember 2002 when the team started slow and Gretzky's press conference berating the officials flipped a switch. Sometimes a team just needs time to gel. They won't have that time here, but maybe desperation against the Finns will be that switch they need to hit level A.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

20 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

A fair article, except for its construction of 'good old days' where Canada steamrolls everyone and now other teams have 'caught up.'

 

The fact is, these things ebb and flow. Canada has been a steamroller some years and not others. While we are always in the mix at the very top of hockey nations, best on best is seldom a walk in the park for us. Remember 2010...we won in OT.

 

The position player who most disappointed me last night was MacKinnon. With Crosby having a down night, we needed him to step up, and he didn't. 

 

A lot of this has to do with cohesion. The USA has, like boxed oatmeal, come together almost instantly to play a very focused, cohesive game on the ice. By contrast, a higher % of Canada's passes were not quite clicking; you could see guys taking an extra micro-second to read the other guys. 

 

I remember 2002 when the team started slow and Gretzky's press conference berating the officials flipped a switch. Sometimes a team just needs time to gel. They won't have that time here, but maybe desperation against the Finns will be that switch they need to hit level A.

Agreed. We also lost to the USA in the preliminary round that year. 

 

Mackinnon had a rough night starting with getting hit in the face with a puck during warmup. These are elite level players so it’s hard to argue that it had an impact on his game but it was a rough start to his evening and he never really got going. 
 

I think the USA played cohesively as a unit so that also played a part in stifling Team Canada’s offense. They’ve had some line juggling as well already but it could be argued that their chemistry as a team is a little bit higher than Canada’s right now. Hopefully this loss or a good showing on Monday as you said can be the turning point, and we’ll see the best Canada has to offer prior to the end of this tournament. 

[Commandant]

5 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Splitting hairs but the second goal wasn’t a soft goal. Saveable perhaps but also a well placed shot on a 2 on 1. Not the definition of soft. The first goal was soft as Guentzel was able to pass the puck through Binnington but Guentzel was also on a partial breakaway. Again, saveable for any goalie who has their stick on the ice and a good butterfly but it was off another blown coverage on defence.

 

Sidney was already too hard on himself but it was his turnover that cost us the second goal. If Laine/Matheson were to blame for the turnover that led to the New Jersey game winning goal in overtime a few weeks back, then Crosby should take some blame for the second goal against. Of course no one wants to blame Crosby, myself included. 
 

I thought Canada played a good game but didn’t score enough and USA was indeed slightly better overall. The game could have gone either way. They’ll need to move forward and put this game behind them. 

 

In a World Class tournament, the goalie can't be giving away two unscreened wrist shots from 40 feet.  I could forgive one, but twice in the same game is a back breaker. 

[Commandant]

4 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

Crosby absolutely deserves blame for that horrible Ozone pass that turned the puck over which led to the rush and goal. 
 

Still, Binnington has to save that shot. Call it soft or call it saveable it’s the same thing to me at this level of hockey. 
 

This game will lead to some roster changes for the Olympics which is a good thing. I expect Wilson to make the team to counter the Tkachuks. 
 

Hopefully a better goalie will emerge by then too

 

Bringing Wilson to "counter the Tkachuks" in a tournament where there will be no fighting cause fighting is an automatic suspension for the entire tournament is stupid. 

 

How about we dont' bring guys like Cirelli as defensive specialists and bring a PPG player like Suzuki or Schiefele instead.

 

Its like these guys haven't learned from the Rob Zamuner and Kirk Maltby/Kris Draper mistakes. You don't take specialists who play third line in the NHL.  You take first liners like Jonathan Toews or Dale Hawerchuk and put them in defensive roles. That's always where Canada has been the most successful. 

[Commandant]

2 hours ago, tomh009 said:

An OT win should be enough…unless the Swedes somehow manage to beat the US.

 

Don't go to OT.  The game is in the afternoon and the US game is at night.  If the US knows they can face Sweden instead of Canada in the finals by losing in regulation, they just might. 

 

Keep it in your own hands, not others.