sbhatt Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Samsonov should just take a pill Easy for you to say...you're not the one being publicly humiliated. But...does anyone know what's eating Kovalev? He's not seemed this out of it since he first got here. Has he soured on Montreal, or what? I'm guessing he's frustrated with still not having a decent center. When he signed on, I'm sure he thought he'd be playing with Koivu as his center. Instead, he's had Ribeiro and now Plekanec. I can understand his frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsmith Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 For 3 mil is it too much to ask Samsonov to be the go-to guy on his own line? I'm not saying that works if he only gets six minutes a game, but there have been two types of successful teams in the 30-team NHL. Type 1 are teams with truly elite top end talent (TB, Detroit, Avs until recently), and Type 2 are the ones that can roll their lines with confidence. (NJ, Buf, Car). Carbo and Bob are clearly aiming for a Type 2 team. To me the chemistry between Kovalev and Samsonov is iffy at best, and without a top center to make this line really dangerous, I'd rather try and get each of them to be the offensive puck carrier on their own line. It's true Pleks is not a top offensive center, but neither is anyone else we've got. Higgins might have the potential, but would you really want to have this guy change his position given the way he's improving right now? If Latendresse doesn't work on this line, then why not move Perezhogin up and put Samsonov with Bonk and Johnson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 (edited) Heaven help any of the modern day players if they'd played under Scotty Bowman - if anybody here is old enough to have watched the way Bowman handled the lines during the cup run of the 70's, they'd have seen a coach who split up any and every line whenever he thought it was worth doing. One night you'd see Lemaire, Shutt and Lafleur together in the first period, and then see 3 or 4 variations of that combo the rest of the game? There was no such thing as a line that was untouchable in his books..... including the so called number 1 line! If it meant winning a hockey game or losing it then tough luck! Heaven help the sanctimonious dumbass who dared to question the coach's decision - even behind closed doors. And if he ever dared to go the media - then a trip to the Nova Scotia Voyageurs was just a bus ticket away. The puke bucket(or even an hour long lecture from Howie Meeker) would have tasted better than any trip to the farm as far as those players were concerned? People have to get over this kind of thing and realize that this is a coach's decision that is based on winning or losing games - it's not some dumbass vendetta or grudge. If anyone deserves the moniker bonehead on this forum, it's Sampsonov. He made the ultimate mistake in the team sense. He broke one of the cardinal rules when he took his gripe to the media. It's one thing to be dumb enough to predict a victory in the media, it's a completely different thing to undermine the coach by going public with his frustration. If he wants to be a go to guy then stop whining - just shut up and put up. Edited October 26, 2006 by beliveau1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Heaven help any of the modern day players if they'd played under Scotty Bowman - if anybody here is old enough to have watched the way Bowman handled the lines during the cup run of the 70's, they'd have seen a coach who split up any and every line whenever he thought it was worth doing. One night you'd see Lemaire, Shutt and Lafleur together in the first period, and then see 3 or 4 variations of that combo the rest of the game? There was no such thing as a line that was untouchable in his books..... including the so called number 1 line! Hehehehe, you just reminded me of an anecdote. It was during the 76-77 season, where the Habs were rolling over everyone. One night they were on a road-trip, about to face some lowly team. Bowman then decided... to scratch Shutt, apparently for no reasons. Lafleur got upset for Shutty, so he called in a veterans meeting, and the captain (I think it was Savard at that time) got in Bowman's office and argued over Shutt's case. Finally Bowman caved in and let Shutt play... Result? A lopsided (something like 12-3) win for Montreal. Bowman was a master at keeping his guys ready for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 (edited) Hehehehe, you just reminded me of an anecdote. It was during the 76-77 season, where the Habs were rolling over everyone. One night they were on a road-trip, about to face some lowly team. Bowman then decided... to scratch Shutt, apparently for no reasons. Lafleur got upset for Shutty, so he called in a veterans meeting, and the captain (I think it was Savard at that time) got in Bowman's office and argued over Shutt's case. Finally Bowman caved in and let Shutt play... Result? A lopsided (something like 12-3) win for Montreal. Bowman was a master at keeping his guys ready for anything. Yeah he was an artist - no one was any better at that than Bowman. Many an average player used to hate the sight of him, but they were always that much better under his tutelage? Can you imagine the phone calls to agents that would be going on today if he was still coaching...... (I had the privilege of listening to him at a coaching conference many years ago - it was one hour that was more informative than a life time of reading books and other conferences I've been to as a coach/manager.) Edited October 26, 2006 by beliveau1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Ribeiro was a cancer to the club, pure and simple. Ergo: turd. Plex isn't lost out there so much as the two Russkies are running in useless circles and being COMPLETE perimeter players. Plex is the only one on the line willing to dig anything loose. Perhaps he's less talented than Ribeiro - and he might even have less points than Ribby if the latter were still in Montreal and centering the two Russkies, however their plus minus would probably be well into the double digits negatively. At least Plex gives that line the tiniest bit of defensive awareness. With Ribeiro? Addition by subtraction. I would have been happy with a rotting turd. Sorry, but I disagree. Not that a trade with Ribs had to happen eventually, but you can't just dump a guy and get a mediocre defenceman in return. We did not need another mediocre defenseman. If they got Pronger out of this.. well.. As for Pleks, his plus minus is not very good for this part of the season and Ribs is a plus 2. Ribs was a major plus the season before last as well. So.. I do believe that Pleks is better defensively, at least when he is playing that role. That is why I want him on the third line, where he can have a great career. Again, I am not saying I want Ribs on the team.. I am saying: 1. Pleks is not a number 2 center and that has made us weaker up the middle. This view has been shared by most of the commentator I have heard, so I don't think it is crazy talk. 2. Niniimaa was not what we needed. We need another top two center. Either one better then Koivu, or one better then Ribs was. That would fix our offense. 3. Pleks is performing worse then Ribs has, and so far, there is zero evidence that it is addition by subtraction. In fact, our record is worse starting the season then it was last year, with Ribs. Let me repeat, I understand that Ribs days were numbered, but that does not mean you make a bad trade. My opinion is that Ribs would be playing better then Pleks, and would be worth more later in the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 (edited) I'll keep this short. Sergei, team is not spelled TEI'M. I figured he would know that since he has a high IQ. Edited October 26, 2006 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 I'll keep this short. Sergei, team is not spelled TEI'M. I figured he would know that since he has a high IQ. There may not be an "I" in team, but there is an M and an E....ME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 (edited) Sorry, but I disagree. Not that a trade with Ribs had to happen eventually, but you can't just dump a guy and get a mediocre defenceman in return. We did not need another mediocre defenseman. If they got Pronger out of this.. well.. As for Pleks, his plus minus is not very good for this part of the season and Ribs is a plus 2. Ribs was a major plus the season before last as well. So.. I do believe that Pleks is better defensively, at least when he is playing that role. That is why I want him on the third line, where he can have a great career. Again, I am not saying I want Ribs on the team.. I am saying: 1. Pleks is not a number 2 center and that has made us weaker up the middle. This view has been shared by most of the commentator I have heard, so I don't think it is crazy talk. 2. Niniimaa was not what we needed. We need another top two center. Either one better then Koivu, or one better then Ribs was. That would fix our offense. 3. Pleks is performing worse then Ribs has, and so far, there is zero evidence that it is addition by subtraction. In fact, our record is worse starting the season then it was last year, with Ribs. Let me repeat, I understand that Ribs days were numbered, but that does not mean you make a bad trade. My opinion is that Ribs would be playing better then Pleks, and would be worth more later in the season. Ribs = unliked by all. He is a diving. whining cancer that was almost as horrible for the team as Koivus (his cancer) and for us to get some depth at D in exchange for him is just perfect. On the Samsonov issue, why not try Bonk on the 2nd line? He has centered top lines in Ottawa so why not here? By the way, he is big as well. And if nothing else is possible then why not split the 1st line up just for a game or two to see how Samsonov or Kovalev or even both of them would do playing with Koivu? Higgins - Bonk - Ryder doesnt sound that bad to me. Edited October 26, 2006 by Dalhabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HABBER-oooooKNOWS Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Who's in a state of panic ? The fan's werent,....the CH has only played 8 games and they are 4-2-2,.....the second line maybe could have produced more,....but it's a new role for the young Plek...and Samsonov is new in town,....both have been working hard so far and both have to composed with the talented but idiosyncratic Kovalev......in the end they have to work things out (with him) and among themselves......it takes time, patience and perseverance.....nobody was complaining, neither them nor the fans,.....but Carbo WAS it seems,....his solution = sending our newly acquired 3.5 millions UFA to play on the fourth line.....after 8 matches only into the season. This is bad hockey management and bad management of human rescources......Samsonov is pissed off..... no wonder....as it is an unfair and an innapropriate decision. Last year we had our 2.5 million dollards man on the fourth line......retrograding Bonk from the third line to the fourth was decided but it took a few months of seeing his lazy ass out there before it happens.......it took a long while for Bonk to be retrograded 1 line down.......the hard working Samsonov is retrograded 2 lines down after 8 games.....he is now our 3.5 millions dollards 4th liner,.....it' s insane. Last year we had some 23 years old prospects that looked GOOD from the start playing in the new NHL and they all had deserved their promotion when the Bonks and the Zednicks where all playing waaayyyy bellow expectations LATER in the season........... Samsonov is barely starting is first season with us and find himself in a situation that doesn't makes any sens to him.....he is a young veteran and seem's to be a very reasonable person....he felt what he said today, it's not good.....I dont blame him......there is something offensive and irrationnal in moving him 2 lines down......that this is done on the eve of his return on the Boston ice makes it worse on both equations. This move by Carbo seems precipitated to say the least and pretty much nil in term of a long term plan...... the timing is awfull as well. Thank god for once we have a coach that is four maby five steps ahead of the media and fans. Is Carbo supposed to read our threads and react when we're all mad and frustrated. I don't think so. This is a good move to get that line going, not in Febuary when we haven't won since Christmas because our second line doesn't produce. Because Carb is testing everything now means we'll have a greased machine come all star break. Sheesh..Nobody was complaining?.............................That is the most retarted thing I've read in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Samsonov is playing on the 3rd... Told you to relax... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Ribs = unliked by all. He is a diving. whining cancer that was almost as horrible for the team as Koivus (his cancer) and for us to get some depth at D in exchange for him is just perfect. On the Samsonov issue, why not try Bonk on the 2nd line? He has centered top lines in Ottawa so why not here? By the way, he is big as well. And if nothing else is possible then why not split the 1st line up just for a game or two to see how Samsonov or Kovalev or even both of them would do playing with Koivu? Higgins - Bonk - Ryder doesnt sound that bad to me. All the first stuff you talked about is a) opinion and B) business decisions should not be made on those emotional issues. He is not Terrell Owens... Again, I am not saying.. they should not trade ribs to improve the locker room, but I don't think they improved the team. If he was really that bad, they should have dumped him in the off season. I do like the short term idea of trying Bonk out on that line. His performance this year has been excellent and he has earned the spot. I can't really remember if he ever got a shot at it last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 (edited) Samsonov is playing on the 3rd... Told you to relax... You where right wise man Dany Dube had predicted it somehow....and it made much more sens this way. Samsonov got some pp time as well.....things got tried out in a balanced manner. Edited October 27, 2006 by PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromage Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Latendresse will probably get demoted back to Junior if he doesn't a really, really solid game against Toronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 (edited) Sammy layed a strong game, too. Less pointless circling in the offensive zone perimeter, much crisper, alert playmaking. Maybe this will turn out for the best... Notice, also, Carbo's good sense in dressing Huet for the Boston game despite a dodgy outing last time. He obviously knew that Huet stoned the Bruins last year and identified this as a great chance to boost Huet's confidence. And it looks like it worked. I come back with Huet vs TO, then Abby. Edited October 27, 2006 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 1. Pleks is not a number 2 center and that has made us weaker up the middle. This view has been shared by most of the commentator I have heard, so I don't think it is crazy talk. 2. Niniimaa was not what we needed. We need another top two center. Either one better then Koivu, or one better then Ribs was. That would fix our offense. 3. Pleks is performing worse then Ribs has, and so far, there is zero evidence that it is addition by subtraction. In fact, our record is worse starting the season then it was last year, with Ribs. Let me repeat, I understand that Ribs days were numbered, but that does not mean you make a bad trade. My opinion is that Ribs would be playing better then Pleks, and would be worth more later in the season. 1. Most of the commentators you've heard? French commentators? With extreme bias? 2. On what planet did you think Ribeiro was ever going to net us a top-two centre? EVER? 3. Plex is playing with Sammy and Kovy - two players who couldn't find their own end with a compass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Samsonov was on the ice for 13:40 and had a couple of shots on goal. Carbonneau said after the game he liked his performance. I can't help but think that he was moved to the 3rd to pacify him after his little outburst to the media after 'not being needed'. Obviously I doubt that's permanent - Perezhogin won't stay on the fourth line forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Love Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Heaven help any of the modern day players if they'd played under Scotty Bowman - if anybody here is old enough to have watched the way Bowman handled the lines during the cup run of the 70's, they'd have seen a coach who split up any and every line whenever he thought it was worth doing. One night you'd see Lemaire, Shutt and Lafleur together in the first period, and then see 3 or 4 variations of that combo the rest of the game? There was no such thing as a line that was untouchable in his books..... including the so called number 1 line! If it meant winning a hockey game or losing it then tough luck! Heaven help the sanctimonious dumbass who dared to question the coach's decision - even behind closed doors. And if he ever dared to go the media - then a trip to the Nova Scotia Voyageurs was just a bus ticket away. The puke bucket(or even an hour long lecture from Howie Meeker) would have tasted better than any trip to the farm as far as those players were concerned? People have to get over this kind of thing and realize that this is a coach's decision that is based on winning or losing games - it's not some dumbass vendetta or grudge. If anyone deserves the moniker bonehead on this forum, it's Sampsonov. He made the ultimate mistake in the team sense. He broke one of the cardinal rules when he took his gripe to the media. It's one thing to be dumb enough to predict a victory in the media, it's a completely different thing to undermine the coach by going public with his frustration. If he wants to be a go to guy then stop whining - just shut up and put up. Beautiful. Couldn't have said it any better. Sorry, but I disagree. Not that a trade with Ribs had to happen eventually, but you can't just dump a guy and get a mediocre defenceman in return. We did not need another mediocre defenseman. If they got Pronger out of this.. well.. Pronger?????? For Ribeiro? Who's your dealer? I agree that this trade is looking to be a bad move, but I think we all knew at the time that it was a risk and it could have went either way. Ninnimma had a couple of really good seasons, then he got hurt and could never return to form. BG was obviously hoping that he would return to form and have a strong campaign. It looks like it didn't pan out, but you can't get mad at the move. He made the right move, in replacing Ribeiro for a defenceman, and he was going to get a 2/3 dman for him, so he took a chance that had potential upside and it looks like it backfired. As much as a cringe everytime he steps on the ice, I still am hopeful he can find a groove and contribute in some way, look at Bonk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 (edited) Beautiful. Couldn't have said it any better. Thanks - I may have disagreed with you somewhat on calling Niinimaa a bonehead for his comments (however I do agree that it was verey stupid as he may have had that go unnoticed during the regular season in Dallas , but not a chance in the 'Hockey Hotbed' of Montreal - I'd have gone as far as calling him a bonehead if it was dring the playoffs though!) but when Sampsonov went public with that gripe then I had to say that that was truly the measure of selfish stupidity. When you read about some of Bowman's tactics(even with superstars) it makes you wonder, with a big fat smile on your face, what he'd have done with that one? He'd probably not want to pull that kind of stunt ever again....... As far as Niinimaa goes - there is still a lot of time left in this season. A mere 1/8th of the way into is not the time to pass any judgment on him at all. I prefer to wait until after Christmas before deciding he's a flop. Time will tell on this move. Is he struggling - yes, however if anyone thinks they'd rather have Patrick Traverse out there every night...... Edited October 27, 2006 by beliveau1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Beautiful. Couldn't have said it any better. Pronger?????? For Ribeiro? Who's your dealer? I agree that this trade is looking to be a bad move, but I think we all knew at the time that it was a risk and it could have went either way. Ninnimma had a couple of really good seasons, then he got hurt and could never return to form. BG was obviously hoping that he would return to form and have a strong campaign. It looks like it didn't pan out, but you can't get mad at the move. He made the right move, in replacing Ribeiro for a defenceman, and he was going to get a 2/3 dman for him, so he took a chance that had potential upside and it looks like it backfired. As much as a cringe everytime he steps on the ice, I still am hopeful he can find a groove and contribute in some way, look at Bonk. I don't mean trade Ribs for Pronger straight up. But a multiplayer deal might have been made that included Ribs. Or a multiplayer deal for a center better then Ribs, that included Ribs. Or how about just signing a free agent to replace Ribs, then trade Ribs for Niinimaa. All I am saying is we are worse off now then before the trade, imo. We have a second line that is worse then last year (and last year you all blamed Ribs for it). Our defense is not better either. so.. how did this help? Maybe a better dressing room without Ribs? Well, that is conjecture given Theo was already gone. Perhaps the dressing room is just as bad with Niinimaa shooting his mouth off. It sure doesn't look like Kovalev and Sammy are happy campers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House11 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Ok 2 things ... I don't like the fact Sammy is saying what he's saying in the press about his situation .. he needs to talk to Carbo and Gainey about it in private ... but with that said, its nice too know he cares and that he wants to be a high end player for the team now what Niinima said with the "prediction" why wouldn't you want your players to be like that ... now he could have worded it differently .... but he has confidence in his team ... he feels they can beat anyone ! that's a good attitude to have IMO ... I wouldn't want guys going out there thinking they have no chance. and that they expect to lose. Give it time people ! Hopefully Carbo can get everyone on the ship and get it sailing in the right direction soon B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfposi Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 (edited) http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/bruins...ne_in_montreal/ Look, I am pretty excited at the prospect of Sammy tearing it up in a Habs uniform. I truly felt that his speed and skill made him a natural choice for the habs. This being said, the above article shows me a side to him that I hate. As a proffessional I would expect this guy have a bit more patience. If he is place on the fourth line for more than 3 games, then I would complain, but he should understand (by this time in his career) that experiments are normal when you only have 1 offensive line working well! Edited October 27, 2006 by cfposi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 (edited) 1. Most of the commentators you've heard? French commentators? With extreme bias? TSN, Sportsnet, CBC.. no French at all. 2. On what planet did you think Ribeiro was ever going to net us a top-two centre? EVER? I never said that, ever. I said you make a deal for a top two center, then you can dump Ribs. Or you include Ribs PLUS others for a number two center. San Jose got Joe Thorton. Did they give up anything comparable? No, they gave us several lesser players for one good player. 3. Plex is playing with Sammy and Kovy - two players who couldn't find their own end with a compass. Funny, last year when Ribs had to play with Kovy and (insert winger of your choice) and was a minus, it was all his fault. I notice Ribs is plus 3 in Dallas. I will also point out that Ribs had over 50 points last year, which was a BAD season for him. Pleks is on pace for around 18 points. so..no offense, no defense... I think they are ruining Pleks, he should be playing as a defensive center and learning that role, which he will excel in. It is kind of like Bulis. As soon as he was on the top two lines trying to score, his defensive play tanked. Edited October 27, 2006 by brobin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Ribs is on a far better team now. Of course he is on the plus side. Also the majority of his points now are on the PP. He is the 4th line center in Dallas. I am glad he is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Ribs is on a far better team now. Of course he is on the plus side. Also the majority of his points now are on the PP. He is the 4th line center in Dallas. I am glad he is gone. Of course he is on a better team. They ditched Niinimaa and have a 60 point guy as their number 4 center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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