Souray weighing contract offer from Habs

[smon]

I hope he's signed and Kovalev is moved out to offset the cap hit.

[ShortHanded]

I hope he's signed and Kovalev is moved out to offset the cap hit.

Based on the last couple of years, Souray is worth SO much more than Kovy and could find a home A LOT of places around the league. If we sign Souray, we can't expect tradig Kovy to offset the cap hit, because no team will take him off our hands without handing us back a lot of overpriced salary to offset their situation (unless we sent them Kovy and a whole bunch of our good, cheap prospects... at which point it wouldn't be worth it.)

[BTH]

Like I said, Souray will sign with us and for less than you guys are thinking. Meaning less than he could get on the open market.

[Pierre the Great]

I'd like to see him back.

[CoRvInA]

tell Sheldon to gaze on this picture ....

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Souray is one of those players that leave me a little indifferent if he stays or goes.

I want him for his offense and leadership but I am not so keen to see him on the highlight reel for being danced around for a sweet goal.

If he doesn't come back then I like BTH's idea of Samsonov for Aucoin, it's a reasonable solution.

[alexstream]

Souray is one of those players that leave me a little indifferent if he stays or goes.

I want him for his offense and leadership but I am not so keen to see him on the highlight reel for being danced around for a sweet goal.

If he doesn't come back then I like BTH's idea of Samsonov for Aucoin, it's a reasonable solution.

I see Souray as a TRUE UFA...

ie. we have 9M (or more?) to spend on the free market...

If we sign a D, I want it to be Souray

If we don't sign Souray, well I "expect" that we sign someone... (Ryan Smyth is my favorite option)

[Pierre the Great]

yeah Souray's defence stinks. He's got cement blocks for skates.

[dark_faerie87]

Souray is one of those players that leave me a little indifferent if he stays or goes.

I want him for his offense and leadership but I am not so keen to see him on the highlight reel for being danced around for a sweet goal.

If he doesn't come back then I like BTH's idea of Samsonov for Aucoin, it's a reasonable solution.

That was my idea, although I think people had mentioned it back during the regular season.

[Tony]

It was mentioned on Satellite Hotstove that Souray plans on discussing with the Habs next week and Ron MacLean believes the 4.5M$ (number said on the air) a season for 3 years is a crap offer for Souray.

[OneSharpMarble]

It was mentioned on Satellite Hotstove that Souray plans on discussing with the Habs next week and Ron MacLean believes the 4.5M$ (number said on the air) a season for 3 years is a crap offer for Souray.

This is a man who hangs out with a mouthpiece like Don Cherry by choice, his opinion isn't of the utmost value. If Souray doesn't like it let him catch the first thing smokin.

[lazy26]

I think what Ron likely meant was that Souray will be offered SUBSTANTIALLY more on the UFA market. (I was only half listening at the time). I respect Ron's opinion tremendously, and to lump him in with Cherry is a disservice, IMO. If anything, he deserves props for not ending his life... having been interrupted constantly for upteen years.

[OneSharpMarble]

IMO. If anything, he deserves props for not ending his life... having been interrupted constantly for upteen years.

LOL, maybe he likes the punishment, some sort of S&M thing. I am pretty sure his eyesight is fading thanks to DC's attrocious outfits, I swear that guy stole the cover off my grandmas couch once!

[BCHabnut]

When tracking a plus/minus stat, only goals for and against are counted if it is five on five. Souray plays on both special teams and on 5 on 5, so his plus/minus is a little decieving, considering how many points he put up on the PP. He is better than his plus/minus says he is. It is very much like Gonchar.

Souray is definitely no Pronger or Lidstrom ( They are able to play special teams, put up the points and keep their plus minus in tact.), but the fact is that entire team was awful 5 on 5, and because plus minus is derived from 5 on 5 play, you can't judge his ability strictly on that. I would be happy if he is signed, even though I worry that next season will be a bust for him. And I would be equally happy if we gave him up and signed a suitable replacement.

Edited June 3, 2007 by BCHabnut

[Habitforming]

When tracking a plus/minus stat, only goals for and against are counted if it is five on five. Souray plays on both special teams and on 5 on 5, so his plus/minus is a little decieving, considering how many points he put up on the PP. He is better than his plus/minus says he is. It is very much like Gonchar.

Souray is definitely no Pronger or Lidstrom ( They are able to play special teams, put up the points and keep their plus minus in tact.), but the fact is that entire team was awful 5 on 5, and because plus minus is derived from 5 on 5 play, you can't judge his ability strictly on that. I would be happy if he is signed, even though I worry that next season will be a bust for him. And I would be equally happy if we gave him up and signed a suitable replacement.

I agree, but the problem is who replaces him from this seasons UFA list?

You know what they say, "Better the Devil you know than the Devil you don't" We already know he can run a PP, his replacement might not be able to AND be as bad defensively.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

I agree, but the problem is who replaces him from this seasons UFA list?

You know what they say, "Better the Devil you know than the Devil you don't" We already know he can run a PP, his replacement might not be able to AND be as bad defensively.

Agreed, especially given our lack of D depth overall. Nature abores a vacumm and if Souray goes, that vacumm might suck pucks into our own net. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Souray's play that a balanced D squad around him cannot compensate for. You don't dump building blocks because you focus on their negatives. You improve the overall group itself. We can sit here all day and go on about Souray's deficits. But consider the positives we will lose and consider the way to solve the problem.

[ShortHanded]

Agreed, especially given our lack of D depth overall. Nature abores a vacumm and if Souray goes, that vacumm might suck pucks into our own net. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Souray's play that a balanced D squad around him cannot compensate for. You don't dump building blocks because you focus on their negatives. You improve the overall group itself. We can sit here all day and go on about Souray's deficits. But consider the positives we will lose and consider the way to solve the problem.

it's precisely because of the lack of depth that I'd go with someone other than Souray. You're right that they're nothing a balanced D squad around him can't compensate for. But do we have a balanced D squad? No, far from it... so do we keep him (with his AWESOME pp, and his MINUS 28), or do we go for someone more - uh - balanced? Someone who can't score that much on the pp, but who also has a more sound overall game... I would be all for signing Souray if we had loads and loads of money and loads and loads of D prospects, but we have neither, so we need to be very selective in what we do with our money... Our whole team stunk 5 on 5, but not the whole team is up for contract renewal / UFA status, so not the whole team can be considered an "option" of keeping or dropping right now...

[CoRvInA]

Aas many others have posted before... lets break Souray down into components and grade them

-his PP point shot : A+

-his defensive play(number 3 or 4 dman): B-

-his Veteran leadership (including standing up for other players; fighting etc.): A

Assuming he wants 5.5 Mil per year for this.

Can we obtain or do we need or do we have those three components that number 44 offers? that's the question...

I think we can get his defensive play (which isnt GREAT) but still above average "sort of" already from within and if not from a 2mil UFA dman which could render the same performance.

The veteran leadership I believe we would need to replace... if we lose Souray (or maybe it hasn't manifested itself yet, and would (from another player who steps up) if Souray leaves)) or from that 2 Mil Dman.

The PP obviously his biggest pro... Now could markov do half of that? and perhaps the other half could be fulfilled by the "NEW" UFA forward we'd be geeting, ? so question marks ....

With these assumptions we would replace Souray with either Markov and another D from hamilton (Cote, O'brian) and we need between 4 and 6 mil for the slap shot. hopefully from a Forward which would be able to satisfy our first line needs

So in my opinion... unless there really isnt much out there come July first I think Souray for 4.75 mil or nada.

[Chris]

Defensive game B-, he was worst in the league in plus minus for defenseman. Do you go to school with a sharp grading curve or something? There is no way he rates anything but an F in his own end.

Why does everyone talk about leadership? What has he done to lead the team, or where has he led them? No where.

If you want i can give you some leadership quotes. "We have to play a full 60 minute game". "We are a good team just struggling to play well" How is that, does that make me as good of a leader as Souray?

Face it he is gone.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Gainey said he was going to rebuild the D. Signing everyone back and having Markov - Souray - Komisarek - Bouillon - Dandenault - Gorges and maybe Streit ALL back isn't "rebuilding the D". Something has to be changing somewhere.

Rather not have Souray eh? When McCabe blasts a bullet against us or Souray for that matter and we lack that weapon - don't come crying to me!

I can hear it now when he's gone. Good grief. You posters who hold this view, I'm taking note. I'm interested to see who does a 180 on the subject

Edited June 4, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[Chris]

I can honestly it won't be who is saying it, or switching back. Maybe you people on the other side will think it's nice to see Souray doing something other then picking the puck out of the net in his own end and taking stupid penalties.

I agree with your post about BG revamping the D, I would expect not resigning Souray as part of that and trying to move another D man Bouillon. Dandy has more versitility by playing forward and actually isn' bad at that.

[ShortHanded]

Defensive game B-, he was worst in the league in plus minus for defenseman. Do you go to school with a sharp grading curve or something? There is no way he rates anything but an F in his own end.

Why does everyone talk about leadership? What has he done to lead the team, or where has he led them? No where.

If you want i can give you some leadership quotes. "We have to play a full 60 minute game". "We are a good team just struggling to play well" How is that, does that make me as good of a leader as Souray?

Face it he is gone.

I would give him a C- or D for his Defense. In terms of leadership, I think that what the other poster was referring to was the fact that he scored a lot of timely goals down the stretch to help us win games (granted, he also took stupid penalties and got zipped by as others scored timely goals against us ...)

I can honestly it won't be who is saying it, or switching back. Maybe you people on the other side will think it's nice to see Souray doing something other then picking the puck out of the net in his own end and taking stupid penalties.

I agree with your post about BG revamping the D, I would expect not resigning Souray as part of that and trying to move another D man Bouillon. Dandy has more versitility by playing forward and actually isn' bad at that.

BG said he'd revamp the D but also said he'd try to sign both Markov and Souray in the same interview I believe, so while I don't think bringing Souray back is the best idea (for reasons I've stated before) I think it was in BG's game plan... mind you, he could always be offering Souray the contract he is knowing he won't take anything that low, and just doing it to say 'look, we extended an offer'. The other possibility is BG tries to sign Souray and ANOTHER of the big D's on UFA, or trade for one, and tries to move out Dandy/Franky-Boul... That's spending a lot of money on 3 D's though... Whatever it is, I HOPE we don't sign Souray to more than he's worth.

[saskhab]

As a team we took a lot of stupid penalties, which I think was personified by Koivu moreso than Souray. Koivu shouldn't need to be taking hooking penalties, he's fast enough to keep up. Souray will need to at times, especially since he's usually got no one behind him.

Souray actually has decent positioning defensively, it's just he gets caught looking at the puck too often on one on one situations. He's good at settling the puck down (at the blue line or defensive zone) and doesn't give the puck up that often. B- might be a stretch based on last season but it's probably what he's capable of being.

[beliveau1]

Souray certainly suffers from a number of brain cramps, as well as having had the misfortune for being saddled with the blame for some of Rivet's gaffes on occasion. However an 'F' in his own zone is questionable - anyone being graded in that extreme would simply not have an NHL job. Souray is at best a 'D' in his own zone and overall that makes him probably a 'C+' overall when you factor in his offence. The problem is he's being asked to carry the role of a number one pairing in Montreal, and that he is definitely not. Realistically he is at best a #4 defenceman who should garner top time on the powerplay, or ice time when a goal is needed - but not when the game is absolutely on the line!

That said it is still feasible to upgrade the defence without having to eliminate him from the lineup. However he has to be relegated to the second pairing at best. The problem in doing so though lies with what salary he commands on the open market. In other words, can Gainey afford to sign him and still get a top pairing thoroughbred defenceman. Losing his offencive production will be a factor no doubt, but the cost has to be reasonable to keep him.

As for Souray, personally I think we need his offence or something similar, but I have seen far worse behind the blueline..... so I have mixed feelings when it comes to signing him or not?

In my opinion(humble as it is) the Canadiens have to upgrade on guys like Bouillon and Dandenault if they hope make this team better behind the blueline..... Komisarek & Markov are a good basis to work from, but leaving Souray aside for the moment, one has to say that from the #3/4 spot down this roster is soft and it's small!

Edited June 4, 2007 by beliveau1

[Fanpuck33]

That said it is still feasible to upgrade the defence without having to eliminate him from the lineup. However he has to be relegated to the second pairing at best.

I agree, as long as his contract isn't silly. 4 million is acceptable. Though, he's already 2nd pairing on the team. Markov and Komi is the clear first pairing.