The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 My question is this.. if they decide we are toast at some point and dump what they can and bring in more prospects, is JM the guy to develop our talent? I think not. I don't see why not, given his excellent record at player development. However, it's true that if things devolve to that catastrophic point, Martin won't survive, so it's a moot point anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Talking with my dad today a fan of the Canadiens for over 40 years. He made a very interesting suggestion and that was to have Jacques take a vacation or be "sent to the minors" for a week or two. Allow one of the assistants to take over or bring in a guy. He says they do it with players why not the coach if they really believe he is the problem then he does not come back. And they do not have to do this publicaly they could say he needs to be away for personal or family reasons, I doubt anyone calls his mom to see what the deal is. I thought it was an interesting and innovative idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenadian Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Where would the backlash come from if the next coach was an anglo? Media? They rant/rave about every little thing now, so what's once more? Fans? I for one am a fan of winning, so IMO they wouldn't stop going buying tickets and merch. Sponsors? Not sure, but once again they probably like a winner too........ Mtl reminds me of Dog River, Gus the local paper (media) dramatic with dramatic headlines Oscar (locals) flying off the handle at any little change . And like Lacy outsiders aren't part of the inner circle (those born raised there)....................the rest of us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Talking with my dad today a fan of the Canadiens for over 40 years. He made a very interesting suggestion and that was to have Jacques take a vacation or be "sent to the minors" for a week or two. Allow one of the assistants to take over or bring in a guy. He says they do it with players why not the coach if they really believe he is the problem then he does not come back. And they do not have to do this publicaly they could say he needs to be away for personal or family reasons, I doubt anyone calls his mom to see what the deal is. I thought it was an interesting and innovative idea. How about just some time in the press box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 How about just some time in the press box. Yes exaclty it is an interesting idea. If he were to watch the game from up high he may get a new perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 What did Darche do all year to earn ANY PP time???? What has he shown to suggest he can help on the PP???? What did Leblanc do last night to earn P time? He's not NHL ready, and is only with the team because of injuries and suspensions. He needs more AHL time, not to be a PP solution of a struggling team. He'll get 3 gms and be sent back to Hamilton. Who cares how high he was drafted or if hes french? He needs proper development. Look no farther than Latendresse and Pacioretty to see what that means. I just find it ridiculous that after every two or three game losing streak we talk about firing the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 With the horses this team does have there is absolutely no reason for the PP to be as bad as it has been. A good coach adjusts with what he has. Im not saying we should have the best PP in the league, but there is no reason for it to be as horrible as it has been This 0-3 slump is disconcerting, because our early season skid put us in a position where we could not afford too many further slumps. I'll say what I said early in the season, though: it's not about wins and losses, it's about where you are in the standings. Right now, we are two, count 'em two, points out of 8th place. So we remain in a perfectly viable position to make the playoffs and firing Martin would be premature. Obviously, if you think JM is a bumbling boob who is personally responsible for, say, the bad power-play - which, incidentally, is THE major reason we are not comfortably in a playoff spot - then my logic makes no sense. But in my view, which I have maintained all season long, this team just doesn't have the horses to run a consistently strong power play. That's because a PP is controlled from the blueline, and in the absence of Markov and Wiz (and to a much lesser degree Hamrlik), we lack the defencemen to make it happen. Weber is erratic at best. Subban hasn't put it all together yet. Gorges is not an offensive defenceman. The rest are either Gill or at-best-middling rookies. This is not rocket science. Our PP sucked last year when Markov went down and before we got Wiz. Then we acuqired Wiz and it became very good again. The independent variable could not be more obvious. It's called talent. So: the team struggles mainly because the PP struggles. The PP struggles because our blueline has ZERO players who can run a PP. Martin is NOT the main factor in all of this. Of course there are other, secondary problems. Cammalleri's struggles over this season and last year are becoming a grave concern. That Gio is -6 with poor offensive numbers is unsettling. These guys are supposed to be top-6 forwards - in Cammy's case, an elite top-3 forward - and they are out to lunch. One possibility is that they've quit on Martin. But since they are the only two, as far as I can see, who are playing well below potential, there is little evidence of a wider dressing room revolt. I dunno about you, but I don't think we should fire a coach because Cammy and Gio say so. Another possibility is that Gio is simply slumping and that Cammy is playing hurt. A third possibility is that these guys feast offensively on the momentum they get from scoring on the PP. So take the PP out of the equation and their overall offence begins to dry up. Again: most of this stuff is not on JM. Now, if the team falls 5-6 points back of 8th place, then - just as I said earlier in the year - I favour a firing, simply because desperate times call for desperate measures and ya gotta do something. Given that times are not desperate yet, and that there remains surprising little evidence that JM is the problem, AND that there are no obviously superior bilingual replacements, I do not think he should be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davehab Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 when I read the thread title I legitimately laughed out loud.......and I agree, somethings gotta change...I miss Pat Burns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 My question is this.. if they decide we are toast at some point and dump what they can and bring in more prospects, is JM the guy to develop our talent? I think not. Why not? We might disagree with how Martin handles the young players. We might think he is too hard on them. But Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Eller, Weber, Emelin, Diaz, Desharnais, White, have all improved under him. Then we have his time in Florida where he developped a ton of guys. This is a criticism of Martin that once again is rooted in emotion, and if it was me I'd do this... but he's done a good job. Martin will NOT rush a kid, will pull him back and correct his mistakes when he is young, but it works for a ton of guys. The rushing people approach doesn't work... it was a problem with Latendresse, and it became a problem with Price as well, and we had to trade one, and pull back and make the other into a backup for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 And they do not have to do this publicaly they could say he needs to be away for personal or family reasons, I doubt anyone calls his mom to see what the deal is. No disrespect intended, but it shows you don't live in Montreal! The media would certainly call his mommy...no doubt about it! The media paparazzi that follow this team around would find out in less than 2 hours where Jacques Martin really was, and which member of his "family" he was with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 No disrespect intended, but it shows you don't live in Montreal! The media would certainly call his mommy...no doubt about it! The media paparazzi that follow this team around would find out in less than 2 hours where Jacques Martin really was, and which member of his "family" he was with. Exact. You're talking about a media base that went public on a story of "Marian Hossa's gloves being sent to Montreal" and who caught Malakhov skiing in Tremblant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 After the decisions in the shootout, I have no comment. Moen FTW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 After the decisions in the shootout, I have no comment. Moen FTW! Moen was our 5th shooter. Moen is our leading goal scorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Moen was our 5th shooter. Moen is our leading goal scorer. Fair point. I counter thusly: Kostitsyn, who has more talent in the boogers he flicks at his roomie's head on road trips than does poor Hands of Stone Moen, would have been called on before said rocky digitalis by virtually every hockey person on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Fair point. I counter thusly: Kostitsyn, who has more talent in the boogers he flicks at his roomie's head on road trips than does poor Hands of Stone Moen, would have been called on before said rocky digitalis by virtually every hockey person on the planet. You have to believe! Chimera's on pace for 35. Everything's possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HabsDad10 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Jacques has definitely lost touch with this team. The has changed so much that we need someone who is a little younger and more in tune as to the assets that we do have. We may not be the most talented but we are a better team than what is being put on the ice. Forget Markov we have a young talented D man in P K market him the way he needs to be. Gomez can stay on the sideline with whatever injury he can come up with, or stay in the locker room were he is best. Eller deserves to play, he is another Plek's in my opinion. The major stumbling block though is that JM is not the man to lead this team anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Jacques has definitely lost touch with this team. The has changed so much that we need someone who is a little younger and more in tune as to the assets that we do have. We may not be the most talented but we are a better team than what is being put on the ice. Forget Markov we have a young talented D man in P K market him the way he needs to be. Gomez can stay on the sideline with whatever injury he can come up with, or stay in the locker room were he is best. Eller deserves to play, he is another Plek's in my opinion. The major stumbling block though is that JM is not the man to lead this team anymore. Fairbanks, Alaska ? Welcome to HW ! Well, if peeps from Fairbanks have given up on Gomez, things are going really bad for him. I never bet but I did this year, and that he would get 48 pts or more. Doh. I've got the feeling Martin will be reassigned within the organization pretty soon. Maybe the new coach is already in his office, sorting through his papers and scorecards. (what the hell is Martin writing after each goal?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Jacques has definitely lost touch with this team. The has changed so much that we need someone who is a little younger and more in tune as to the assets that we do have. We may not be the most talented but we are a better team than what is being put on the ice. Forget Markov we have a young talented D man in P K market him the way he needs to be. Gomez can stay on the sideline with whatever injury he can come up with, or stay in the locker room were he is best. Eller deserves to play, he is another Plek's in my opinion. The major stumbling block though is that JM is not the man to lead this team anymore. Yes, this team clearly tuned him out, and weren't workin hard for him tonight.... he's lost touch with the team. Did we watch the same game? Do you honestly think the team is quitting on the coach with that performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Fairbanks, Alaska ? Welcome to HW ! Well, if peeps from Fairbanks have given up on Gomez, things are going really bad for him. I never bet but I did this year, and that he would get 48 pts or more. Doh. I've got the feeling Martin will be reassigned within the organization pretty soon. Maybe the new coach is already in his office, sorting through his papers and scorecards. (what the hell is Martin writing after each goal?) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Cherry picking a winning streak to state we are not that bad is confirmation bias at its finest. I would like to point out that that burst of decent hockey followed the firing of an asst coach. It is not crazy to think firing the actual coach might get some of our guys playing better. It is not crazy to think that a new coach could fix the PP. It is not crazy to wonder if maybe, JM sucks when he doesn't have an assistant that can talk to the players for him (muller). Personally, I think our team is average at best. Bad coaching could make us worse then average. Great coaching might make us a bit better then average, but only better players are going to make us a contender. I think JM is a decent coach who can squeeze some points out of an average team by playing boring hockey. It only works if they have great goaltending and can score on the PP. Our best run in the playoffs was winning two series on the back of incredible goaltending, some great shot blocking, and timely goals against weak goalies. It took everything to just hang on for those close wins and we had no chance of getting past Philly or Chicago, imo. Other then that, this team with this coach hasn't done much. I don't care if they fire JM right now as I am not convinced that will fix things. I think in Washington they had a great team significantly struggling, which is a different situation. I want the team improved, then get us the right coach to take that team all the way. Its not going to happen overnight. This. Except I think when the whole team is healthy, they move from average to good. Good, but with too many midgets. Even though I like them all individually, having 3 midgets on the top 6 and your best prospect is a midget, you aren't going to win anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Yes, this team clearly tuned him out, and weren't workin hard for him tonight.... he's lost touch with the team. Did we watch the same game? Do you honestly think the team is quitting on the coach with that performance? Ok, we get it, you're happy with the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Bizarre decision = Moen instead of Kostitsyn. Maybe Martin's age is messing with his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Love Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 I think despite the various opinions on JM and whether you like him or not, it's all irrelevent as the team is losing, we are terrible and something needs to change. I think we can all agree that what happens in this situation is the team fires their coach. This is no exception, he will be gone, whether he should be or not shouldn't be debated as I think we all know it's only a matter of time. My concern is whether or not PG is going to make the change in time for them to even have a shot of getting back into the playoff push. I, like most people would love to see the best coach available hired, but the reality is that it won't happen. We haven't had an anglo coach in Montreal in 40+ years, so instead of bitching about that, it would be more constructive to think of who would be possible candidates. The more I have been thinking about it, maybe Lemaire would be good, I know his style is similiar to JM but he is a winner, and he wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Ok, we get it, you're happy with the coach. The criticism that the "team is quitting on him, and he's lost the room" after a shootout loss on the road, against a good team in San Jose is completely and utterly off the mark. I hate the use of cliches and buzz words that don't apply in the circumstances. Saying the "team is quitting" or he's "lost the room" is such a cliche.... but the fact is, that was not what was seen on the ice last night. Criticize the decision making on Moen..... or some other aspect of what the coaching staff did last night... or the PP strategy in the Anaheim game, or whatever... but don't give me a cheap cliche about losing the room after a hard fought hockey game. Its B.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 There is no evidence of the team quitting. They are battling on the PK, they are in most games except for the odd goal, Price is slamming his stick against the net, the glass whatever...I mean they still care. Just a bunch of rookies, a bunch of injuries and a pathetic PP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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