Trade Subban traded to Nashville

[Meller93]

I know this sounds like a load of shit, but I just left a buddies house who knows some of the boys currently on the Habs roster. I guess they're all happy Subban is gone.. breaking news, i know, but atleast a little insider.

Not hard to believe you have a friend who know some of them well, but did you get an idea of of its actually all of them or just a few who are happy?

[DON]

I know this sounds like a load of shit, but I just left a buddies house who knows some of the boys currently on the Habs roster. I guess they're all happy Subban is gone.. breaking news, i know, but atleast a little insider.

That's total BS...I cant believe you actually have a Buddy. The rest is not a surprise though.

[Guest Stogey24]

Not hard to believe you have a friend who know some of them well, but did you get an idea of of its actually all of them or just a few who are happy?

Ya, I'm guessing its not the the entire team but, all he said was they're glad he's gone. One is a D-man too so...

That's total BS...I cant believe you actually have a Buddy. The rest is not a surprise though.

Sometimes you have to stretch the truth to make a story believable

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I wouldn't deny that PK's larger-than-life personality could be a pain in the ass, especially in the conservative culture of pro hockey.

The question that matters, though, is not the personal one of whether the guy is a pain in the ass, but rather whether your team is more likely to win with him or with a player who is older, slower, inferior, and has a worse contract.

Since the answer to this is 'no,' the personal feelings of some players is irrelevant.

And I reiterate: PK was on a team widely hailed for having the best room in hockey in 2014-15. What happened? Were those claims all BS? Did PK suffer a personality transplant over the summer of '15?

The return of Price would have meant the return of winning, and suddenly the sour pettiness of this personal response to PK would have become secondary.

[habs rule]

Shopping!!!!

Shopping!!?????

Our PK.. shopped!

No wonder they shopped him!

What did he buy??!!

Must have been something pretty strange.........

I think it was for panties, they were Max's size I heard?

[nihilz]

That kind of sounds like dr recchi calling out the seriousness of maxpac's injury and concussion because he was watching a movie. Big difference about the health requirements to play in the nhl and shopping or clubbing.

bahaha.. remember Vladimir Malakhov!? He was on injured reserve and went downhill skiing. lol that was good times! Man those teams were bad.

[Guest Stogey24]

bahaha.. remember Vladimir Malakhov!? He was on injured reserve and went downhill skiing. lol that was good times! Man those teams were bad.

That's pretty funny

[Guest Stogey24]

I wouldn't deny that PK's larger-than-life personality could be a pain in the ass, especially in the conservative culture of pro hockey.

The question that matters, though, is not the personal one of whether the guy is a pain in the ass, but rather whether your team is more likely to win with him or with a player who is older, slower, inferior, and has a worse contract.

Since the answer to this is 'no,' the personal feelings of some players is irrelevant.

And I reiterate: PK was on a team widely hailed for having the best room in hockey in 2014-15. What happened? Were those claims all BS? Did PK suffer a personality transplant over the summer of '15?

The return of Price would have meant the return of winning, and suddenly the sour pettiness of this personal response to PK would have become secondary.

I LOVE P.K, and i agree with what your saying, but even Bouillon said P.K is like your little brother, you love him, but even when you don't feel good, he's haning off your neck.

I think he was starting to piss guys off. After hearing what I heard, I put less blame on management for this move.

[DON]

I wouldn't deny that PK's larger-than-life personality could be a pain in the ass, especially in the conservative culture of pro hockey.

The question that matters, though, is not the personal one of whether the guy is a pain in the ass, but rather whether your team is more likely to win with him or with a player who is older, slower, inferior, and has a worse contract.

Since the answer to this is 'no,' the personal feelings of some players is irrelevant.

And I reiterate: PK was on a team widely hailed for having the best room in hockey in 2014-15. What happened? Were those claims all BS? Did PK suffer a personality transplant over the summer of '15?

The return of Price would have meant the return of winning, and suddenly the sour pettiness of this personal response to PK would have become secondary.

How is it a worse contract?

Inferior is just your opinion.

Subban isn't fast, is he? end to end rush, likely a tie or Weber wins. (have not officially timed either, nor studied Nashville footage, so possibly delusional)

Price wasn't around to keep PK in check, maybe?

So you got older, I give you that, but is cheaper.

(and his trophy room is a bit larger than Subban's.)

[Commandant]

end to end rush, likely a tie or Weber wins.

Now I know you are either completely delusional, or have not watched Weber in the last two years.

[DON]

Now I know you are either completely delusional, or have not watched Weber in the last two years.

Is Subban a quick skater?

[Commandant]

Is Subban a quick skater?

End to end speed he is slightly above average, but not fast.

His first step, quickness, and lateral movement are remarkable though.

End to end speed... Subban is still much faster than Weber.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Subban was originally supposed to take part in the 2016 NHL All-Star Competition but was replaced (I believe by Larkin, who broke Gartner's record).

[habs rule]

How is it a worse contract?

Inferior is just your opinion.

Subban isn't fast, is he? end to end rush, likely a tie or Weber wins. (have not officially timed either, nor studied Nashville footage, so possibly delusional)

Price wasn't around to keep PK in check, maybe?

So you got older, I give you that, but is cheaper.

(and his trophy room is a bit larger than Subban's.)

Weber will be 40 when his contract ends, cap hit 7.5 mill for another 10 years, you don't see how that is bad?

PK can skate circles around weber and still beat him to the end boards. So actually he is a ton faster than weber.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

I wouldn't deny that PK's larger-than-life personality could be a pain in the ass, especially in the conservative culture of pro hockey.

The question that matters, though, is not the personal one of whether the guy is a pain in the ass, but rather whether your team is more likely to win with him or with a player who is older, slower, inferior, and has a worse contract.

Since the answer to this is 'no,' the personal feelings of some players is irrelevant.

And I reiterate: PK was on a team widely hailed for having the best room in hockey in 2014-15. What happened? Were those claims all BS? Did PK suffer a personality transplant over the summer of '15?

The return of Price would have meant the return of winning, and suddenly the sour pettiness of this personal response to PK would have become secondary.

I wonder how having the personality who others don't enjoy does not factor into your equation of winning though.

If players on a team tune out the coach it is an issue but if players on your team have problems with one of your stars it is not? In any sport there is a mental side which, along with skill, factors into an outcome.

For any negatives which are brought up, valid as they are, there can be a counter argument. Weber is older? With age comes wisdom and leadership. Weber is slower? Less risk.

This is not to mention that Weber is an offensive threat and brings a physical presence in the defensive end.

I don't want to blindly argue that Weber is better but the narrative that Subban is a dominant force compared to Weber is freely shoved down everyone's mouth.

I'm not the hugest on analytics I'll admit but what I do know is that previous analytics are based on their previous teams. I'm aware the same people will be the ones to argue that the analytics would show even MORE of a disparity in Subban's favor between Weber and Subban if Subban was on Nashville and Weber was on Montreal but blah, blah, blah.

I didn't like the trade but while I have no idea about this most recent buddy of a buddy claiming something about the Habs locker room and how they feel about it, I wouldn't dismiss it as irrelevant to the outcome of the team's success. The mental side is more prevalent in an individual sport, until most teammates feel the same way. 50% mental & 50% skill let's say.

[hab29RETIRED]

Mental side is as important as your skill level. You can have all the skill or speed in the world, but if you have a space for rent sign on your head, your going to be a gaston ginger as (had skill, could skate like the wind and a booming shot), but did not see the ice and was mentally weak.

By the same token, having wisdom is useless when your skills have left you. There is a reason very fewlayers play beyond their 30's, and hey so many decline when they hit their 30's. Weber was clearly showing signs of declining AND the other factor that works against him is the game has changed. The most effective dmen today are the one with the ability to skate and carry the puck. Weber doesn't have that. Nashville traded him for a reason. He isn't even considered the best dman on his team anymore. Remember Darien hatcher? He was considered a great dman. Two lockouts ago, the game cup hanged and made him ineffective. The game has changed again and Weber isn't as effective as he was 3 or 4 years ago. He still has his shot and is clearly better than Souray. But he can't control the play. Nashville paired him with Josi who could control the play and skate with the puck. Who do we have on our team that can do that? Markov used to be able to do that, Beaulieu may be able to one day, but we have no one today.

If Weber is so great, why did Nashville trade him?

Subban puts up more points, can skate and carry the puck better than Weber, plays more minutes, plays harder D minutes (his partner is not as good as Jossi), oh and he won the Norris - which Weber hasn't. On top of that Subban is just entering his prime, while Weber is at the end of his.

I wonder how having the personality who others don't enjoy does not factor into your equation of winning though.

If players on a team tune out the coach it is an issue but if players on your team have problems with one of your stars it is not? In any sport there is a mental side which, along with skill, factors into an outcome.

For any negatives which are brought up, valid as they are, there can be a counter argument. Weber is older? With age comes wisdom and leadership. Weber is slower? Less risk.

This is not to mention that Weber is an offensive threat and brings a physical presence in the defensive end.

I don't want to blindly argue that Weber is better but the narrative that Subban is a dominant force compared to Weber is freely shoved down everyone's mouth.

I'm not the hugest on analytics I'll admit but what I do know is that previous analytics are based on their previous teams. I'm aware the same people will be the ones to argue that the analytics would show even MORE of a disparity in Subban's favor between Weber and Subban if Subban was on Nashville and Weber was on Montreal but blah, blah, blah.

I didn't like the trade but while I have no idea about this most recent buddy of a buddy claiming something about the Habs locker room and how they feel about it, I wouldn't dismiss it as irrelevant to the outcome of the team's success. The mental side is more prevalent in an individual sport, until most teammates feel the same way. 50% mental & 50% skill let's say.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Subban was not a high-risk player.

In terms of room dynamics, yes, they're important; but what about all that buzz about our fantastic room prior to the Price injury? What that implies is that the dynamics were different with Price gone, and in that context, PK drove some people batty. Fine, let's grant all that. The problem with the analysis is that Price is coming back. So the room dynamics should change accordingly, either due to winning or to the stature Price has in that dressing room, whatever.

I also question whether being irritated with a guy off the ice is the same as not being able to work with him on the ice. A player expressing relief that PK is gone may be expressing a 'personal' reaction, not a professional one; it's analogous to players being happy that 1970s-era tough-nut Scotty Bowman is gone, not considering the effects of that departure on their chance to win.

[DON]

Subban was not a high-risk player.

In terms of room dynamics, yes, they're important; but what about all that buzz about our fantastic room prior to the Price injury? What that implies is that the dynamics were different with Price gone, and in that context, PK drove some people batty. Fine, let's grant all that. The problem with the analysis is that Price is coming back. So the room dynamics should change accordingly, either due to winning or to the stature Price has in that dressing room, whatever.

I also question whether being irritated with a guy off the ice is the same as not being able to work with him on the ice. A player expressing relief that PK is gone may be expressing a 'personal' reaction, not a professional one; it's analogous to players being happy that 1970s-era tough-nut Scotty Bowman is gone, not considering the effects of that departure on their chance to win.

Not a high risk player...u r funny guy.

Not sure what last bit of post is all about?

[Meller93]

That's total BS...I cant believe you actually have a Buddy. The rest is not a surprise though.

Hahaha I died at this ?

[Scott462]

http://canadiens.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/recap?id=2015020977

I love PK but I think he is being a tad overrated on this board. He is not as quick as some think and is prone to many sloppy plays. He falls into the trap of doing too much and not making the smart play with his team mates.

[Guest Stogey24]

Feast boys.

[Scott462]

That said I do truely love PK watching him in the Boston series a couple years back was amazing. He was such a beast!

Hope Weber can fit right in and I really like the idea of a Weber Carey duo I think they fit better than Carey PK but only time will tell.

Cheers!?

[DON]

Feast boys.

Go get em, this is no place for such crazy talk, criticizing Pernell and such ...oh wait a sec, it actually is isn't it?

Stubbs Interview with Bergevin

https://www.nhl.com/news/canadiens-gm-marc-bergevin-talks-pk-subban-trade/c-281145516?tid=277548856

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Good to hear he at least contacted PK.

And those who insist the trade was made to please [coach] Michel Therrien? That's [nonsense]. Mike didn't know anything -- anything -- about the trade until after it was made.

Wow. That wasn't even asked. You can tell stuff with Therrien touches a nerve with him.

I want guys, when you lose, it gets them inside. It hurts. And then you go back to work the next day. I don't want a guy who walks out of the rink thinking, "Everything is cute, everything is fine even though we lost the game, life goes on." Yeah, life goes on, but I want guys who feel hurt by a loss. It's the culture that I want. It's the Chicago culture, that's what I want.

That was the rumour with PK. He didn't let a loss bother him.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

http://canadiens.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/recap?id=2015020977

I love PK but I think he is being a tad overrated on this board. He is not as quick as some think and is prone to many sloppy plays. He falls into the trap of doing too much and not making the smart play with his team mates.

Well, PK had an off-year last season, that's true. He responded to the Slump by trying to do too much and seemed confused at times as the PP point man. I said at the time that I thought the coaches whispering in his ear all the time ('don't do this! Don't do that! Don't follow your instincts!' etc.) seemed to be gumming up his game a bit.

That said, the guy is a top-5 defenceman in the NHL, one of the top players of his generation. He is that rarest of players, a guy who can change a game single-handedly. He is also a playoff beast. You only had to listen to the media discussion about him when the trade rumours were flying to see that he is widely viewed as a superstar, not just in Montreal, but all over the league. I've said many times that - notwithstanding his sub-par 2015-16 - in my opinion PK Subban is UNDER-rated. E.g., he gets criticized for 'high risk' plays when in fact these plays are NOT really risky when he's the guy doing them. They're risky plays for Tom Gilbert, not PK Subban. He's been a victim of the constipated, frightened culture of NHL coaching which simply does not know what to do with a special player. (That and subliminal racism, but y'know, you're not allowed to say that, apparently).

Anyway, he is now in an environment where the coach understands modern NHL hockey and allows his players to generate offence and be creative. I'll be surprised if he does not absolutely dominate.

EDIT: 'he did not let a loss bother him' - oy vey. Yet another example of a guy not playing by the constipated NHL rule-book. :bonk:You mean, he remains up-beat and energetic after a loss??? Better trade him.