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Subban traded to Nashville


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Everyone blabbing about "metric numbers", hockey isn't a freaking computer simulated activity.

Yeah. Except if the stats were for Weber (which some are, especially powerplay possession) I'm sure you'd be talking about the importance of them.

Whatever fits your narrative.

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72 pages of debate in this thread alone plus the countless times it cropped up in others, and it all ends up with Nashville sending him away in a cap dump. We can now officially put this baby to bed.

F**K YOU MARC BERGEVIN.

He did not "get dumped because he is a liability to his team".  That's not true. He got dumped because his GM has mismanaged the cap and no one will take players who suck like Nick Bonino or kyle T

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:popcorn:

I tend to agree with the overrated use of analytics as there are a bazillion variables in each and every game, but there's some bold statements in there that I'm sure someone will respond to thoroughly

I hope nobody does because it's not even worth discussing.

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Ok, So I've had a few days to digest the trade, and I have to say I don't hate the trade as much as I did on the 29th.

True, Subban is 3 1/2 years younger and just now entering his prime, but it's not like we got a 37 year old in return for him. Weber is a top 5 d-man in the league and will turn 31 this summer. He still has at least 4-5 good years left. Instead of playing him 26-28 minutes per night, let's hope the Habs coaching staff will limit his ice time to 24 minutes. That should help him out in the long run. Let's not forget that Weber will probably have a better and more immediate influence on guys like Beaulieu and Sergachev!

In the next 3-4 years, I believe that Weber will help this team reach the ultimate goal of winning a cup! I am sad to see P.K. go, but at some point, if too many players in the locker room don't get along with him (Max, Plecky and Markov) then I can understand why this trade was made. In the end, I will always hate Therrien, because I believe he is the one who's been asking Bergevin to get rid of Subban!

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Ok, So I've had a few days to digest the trade, and I have to say I don't hate the trade as much as I did on the 29th.

True, Subban is 3 1/2 years younger and just now entering his prime, but it's not like we got a 37 year old in return for him. Weber is a top 5 d-man in the league and will turn 31 this summer. He still has at least 4-5 good years left. Instead of playing him 26-28 minutes per night, let's hope the Habs coaching staff will limit his ice time to 24 minutes. That should help him out in the long run. Let's not forget that Weber will probably have a better and more immediate influence on guys like Beaulieu and Sergachev!

In the next 3-4 years, I believe that Weber will help this team reach the ultimate goal of winning a cup! I am sad to see P.K. go, but at some point, if too many players in the locker room don't get along with him (Max, Plecky and Markov) then I can understand why this trade was made. In the end, I will always hate Therrien, because I believe he is the one who's been asking Bergevin to get rid of Subban!

Shea Weber used to be a top 5 dman in the League. He is not today.

2012 vs 2016

CmhVhFmXYAA9H8a.jpg

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Pretty chart.

Who coached Weber in 2012 and who coached him in 2016? Not the same, so apples and oranges and why going to a Trotz-like coach in Therrien likely will be a bonus for Weber.

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The difference is Ryan Suter....

The really scary thought is that Weber might have been (to some degree) 'carried' by Suter and Josi, much as Denis Savard was in fact carried by Steve Larmer. I'm not saying this is the case, however. It'd be the nightmare scenario, though.

Another point about the Subban-vs-Weber is that, although some people are trying to spin this trade as the exchange of a flashy guy for a solid 'winner' who will do more to bring a Cup, PK Subban's playoff totals are quite significantly better than Weber's. As Muller rightly said, Subban was a big game player; it's far from clear that Weber actually is, despite his rep.

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The really scary thought is that Weber might have been (to some degree) 'carried' by Suter and Josi, much as Denis Savard was in fact carried by Steve Larmer. I'm not saying this is the case, however. It'd be the nightmare scenario, though.

Another point about the Subban-vs-Weber is that, although some people are trying to spin this trade as the exchange of a flashy guy for a solid 'winner' who will do more to bring a Cup, PK Subban's playoff totals are quite significantly better than Weber's. As Muller rightly said, Subban was a big game player; it's far from clear that Weber actually is, despite his rep.

The one negative about trying to spin Weber as some solid winner is that he has never won a cup.

I can see how Weber is not as effective in the playoffs statistically because teams block lanes better (even against Weber) and there are less power plays called, where Weber is extremely (most?) effective. So it is a legit concern.

I think as a fan one might despise going against a Subban more in a playoff series but as a forward coming into the corner or in front of the net, teams will not enjoy facing Weber. He is the perfect player for a deep run. Yes, I've heard about his game 7 disaster in the conference finals. What people fail to mention every single time is that it was GAME 7 of the CONFERENCE FINALS.

I miss Subban as well, but I'm seriously going to be fine when Beaulieu is "carrying" Weber as well. I won't be surprised when it happens.

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It is telling that Weber wasn't considered the best player on his own pairing twice in his career. I think he'll be good for our young D prospects and the locker room in certain ways, but contrary to what Bergevin believes that's not enough to win a Cup. You need talent, and we wasted one of the best.

Reading that Galchenyuk piece just made me sad all over again. And not too optimistic on how Radulov will fare under this regime.

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It is telling that Weber wasn't considered the best player on his own pairing twice in his career. I think he'll be good for our young D prospects and the locker room in certain ways, but contrary to what Bergevin believes that's not enough to win a Cup. You need talent, and we wasted one of the best.

Reading that Galchenyuk piece just made me sad all over again. And not too optimistic on how Radulov will fare under this regime.

Here's a bet I'd be willing to take even at 2 to 1 odds. Habs will go further in the playoffs this season than they did last season and the Preds will not go as far as they did. It seems so obvious to me because of the respective seasons they had last year. But if it is so obvious, then it's food for thought.

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Here's a bet I'd be willing to take even at 2 to 1 odds. Habs will go further in the playoffs this season than they did last season and the Preds will not go as far as they did. It seems so obvious to me because of the respective seasons they had last year. But if it is so obvious, then it's food for thought.

I don't know about the Preds, but the Habs are 99% guaranteed to do better than last season simply because of the return of Price. The Habs were a top-10 team prior to that injury and will be a top-10 team again after it. Sure, they'd have been even better with Subban, but they'll still be quite good. The team is improved at FW, having upgraded (Shaw > Eller, Radulov > whatever crap we had in that slot before). Galchenyuk should build on his breakout season. Petry will be healthy. It helps that Weber probably has a couple of impact years left in the tank. All of this will help to disguise the foolish weakening of the blue-line, in the short-term. It's as Weber regresses, while Subban goes on to the glory years of a Hall of Fame superstar career, that the true folly of this deal will make itself felt.

A lot will hinge on Beaulieu as well. This trade instantly makes him an absolutely critical player on the back end - the team's go-to puck-moving, transition/possession defenceman. If he falters, then Weber's weaknesses may become more apparent more quickly.

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Here's a bet I'd be willing to take even at 2 to 1 odds. Habs will go further in the playoffs this season than they did last season and the Preds will not go as far as they did. It seems so obvious to me because of the respective seasons they had last year. But if it is so obvious, then it's food for thought.

So you're betting that the Predators don't make it to the Western Conference final but the Habs make it to the playoffs.

I mean, that's a pretty safe bet to make. It's a lot easier to make the playoffs than it is to make it to the WCF. Double so when Carey Price is healthy.

Would you take 2 to 1 odds that if Price is out for all of 16-17, the Habs will still do better than last year?

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Yeah, it seems stacked odds

Price makes the team immeasurably better

Radulov fixes what has been a long term problem

Petry missed half the year

Max will be healthy as his knee bothered him last year.

Galchenyuk and Gallagher are still taking steps forward

All of that offsets any loss from Subban to Weber.

That said, this trade... by itself... is a downgrade that didn't need to be made.

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There will no doubt be a debate as to why next season's Habs will be better than last season's. The narrative will range from having a healthy Price back, to having a more cohesive "team". There are far too many variables to pinpoint exactly one way or another. It's just going to be one of those things that people will never change their mind on. Trade defenders and trade bashers shall debate till the end of time. All I hope is that the Habs are relevant again, I don't care who plays on the team.

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The really scary thought is that Weber might have been (to some degree) 'carried' by Suter and Josi, much as Denis Savard was in fact carried by Steve Larmer. I'm not saying this is the case, however. It'd be the nightmare scenario, though.

Another point about the Subban-vs-Weber is that, although some people are trying to spin this trade as the exchange of a flashy guy for a solid 'winner' who will do more to bring a Cup, PK Subban's playoff totals are quite significantly better than Weber's. As Muller rightly said, Subban was a big game player; it's far from clear that Weber actually is, despite his rep.

Hey, you are finding 100 different ways to say the same thing. And you can spin that shite however you like, Subban is gonzo!

Ohh 'Scary' and 'nightmare scenario'...come on, get real.

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So you're betting that the Predators don't make it to the Western Conference final but the Habs make it to the playoffs.

I mean, that's a pretty safe bet to make. It's a lot easier to make the playoffs than it is to make it to the WCF. Double so when Carey Price is healthy.

Would you take 2 to 1 odds that if Price is out for all of 16-17, the Habs will still do better than last year?

Of course, who wouldn't take that bet, they have a leader on defense now, they didn't last season.

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A lot will hinge on Beaulieu as well. This trade instantly makes him an absolutely critical player on the back end - the team's go-to puck-moving, transition/possession defenceman. If he falters, then Weber's weaknesses may become more apparent more quickly.

Agreed! I think alot depends on how Beaulieu does. If he turns into the next Markov (or close to it) then I think we should be OK. But if he struggles, then this trade will look even worse!

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No, it's because they'll have a friggin NHL goalie this year - even if Price is hurt again.

Of course, who wouldn't take that bet, they have a leader on defense now, they didn't last season.

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I like your optimism 29, I agree that this team is deeper and stronger than last year, even in coaching staff...and all will be happy campers in dressing room as well.

Go Habs Go!!!

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It is telling that Weber wasn't considered the best player on his own pairing twice in his career. I think he'll be good for our young D prospects and the locker room in certain ways, but contrary to what Bergevin believes that's not enough to win a Cup. You need talent, and we wasted one of the best.

Reading that Galchenyuk piece just made me sad all over again. And not too optimistic on how Radulov will fare under this regime.

What was the Galchenyuk piece. I missed that??

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What was the Galchenyuk piece. I missed that??

It's interesting that Galy referred to going through a 'tough time' in that piece, and that Subban helped him a lot. He didn't say what the 'tough time' was, but at face value it might have to do with Dumb's refusal to put faith in him as a C, no? If so, then what's being alluded to is that Subban helped Galy deal constructively with the coach's unimaginative, constipated bullying - which would be quite the irony.

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It's interesting that Galy referred to going through a 'tough time' in that piece, and that Subban helped him a lot. He didn't say what the 'tough time' was, but at face value it might have to do with Dumb's refusal to put faith in him as a C, no? If so, then what's being alluded to is that Subban helped Galy deal constructively with the coach's unimaginative, constipated bullying - which would be quite the irony.

Probably that and the girlfriend incident with DSP.

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