Trade Subban traded to Nashville

[DON]

Interesting to hear Darren Dreager this morning, he noted that most or many NHL executives he has spoken with (and himself) think Habs got better of deal. Craig Button thinks opposite.

And he bemused that many hab fans will come to appreciate what Weber brings and that he isn't as washed up as many critics are ranted about.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Interesting to hear Darren Dreager this morning, he noted that most or many NHL executives he has spoken with (and himself) think Habs got better of deal. Craig Button thinks opposite.

And he bemused that many hab fans will come to appreciate what Weber brings and that he isn't as washed up as many critics are ranted about.

Safe bet: everyone will talk high about Weber at game two, ignore bad games at game 32, frustrated at game 62, missing Subban at game 82.

[DON]

Safe bet: everyone will talk high about Weber at game two, ignore bad games at game 32, frustrated at game 62, missing Subban at game 82.

[habs rule]

Safe bet: everyone will talk high about Weber at game two, ignore bad games at game 32, frustrated at game 62, missing Subban at game 82.

I miss Subban now.

[TheDriveFor25]

If Weber plays at 75% of what Subban would have given us, then Montreal wins the trade.

Weber will have a bigger impact on the locker room, and will be better at helping develop Juulsen and Sergachev.

[DON]

Nilan noted it would great if Weber could be like Larry Robinson was with Chelios/Ludwig and be that mentor. He noted Beaulieu said he simply watches Markov at practice to try and get pointers...but Markov isn't one to sit down and chat.

And Subban was usually off fighting one teammate or other at practice, so no mentorship coming from him.

[Guest Stogey24]

That's a lot of the reason he was brought in.

[habs rule]

And Subban was usually off fighting one teammate or other at practice, so no mentorship coming from him.

I went back and looked at the fights he was in with team mates. Mostly Plekanic. 2 or3 times. He and Prust had a wrestling match that Prust rag dolled him neither threw a punch. They were both smiling so I do not know how serious that was. He is a passionate guy. But yeah he can be mouthy.

[DON]

That's a lot of the reason he was brought in.

14 PP goals might also be part of it?

[Guest Stogey24]

No, not for that at all.

[Helmethead]

Oh right - forgot about that

I'm actually surprised no one brought this up:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHbyRNVDNge/

Don't get me wrong, love the kid, but after the "girlfriend" incident last year and how it was swept under the rug, seeing him hanging (and needing to post it on Instagram) with Evander and Odell just irks me.

[Commandant]

His girlfriend assaulted him. How is he to blame in any way for that incident.

Jesus.

[nihilz]

His girlfriend assaulted him. How is he to blame in any way for that incident.

Jesus.

Hey Ben, I mentioned this in another thread somewhere. I was wondering if there's a way to see how many ppg's have been scored against weber/subban while in the penalty box. Just out of curiosity. Thanks!

[Commandant]

Hey Ben, I mentioned this in another thread somewhere. I was wondering if there's a way to see how many ppg's have been scored against weber/subban while in the penalty box. Just out of curiosity. Thanks!

I'm sure its out there, its not something I've ever looked for. I'm on my phone now, but I'll take a look later.

[Helmethead]

His girlfriend assaulted him. How is he to blame in any way for that incident.

Jesus.

Never accused him of assaulting his girlfriend. She assaulted him. But if I were to guess why it was probably cause he was fooling around with other girls.

Trust me, I'm not a moralist by any stretch of the imagination but for Christ's sake go about your business without having to #hashtag the whole planet in on it.

[Meller93]

Never accused him of assaulting his girlfriend. She assaulted him. But if I were to guess why it was probably cause he was fooling around with other girls.

Trust me, I'm not a moralist by any stretch of the imagination but for Christ's sake go about your business without having to #hashtag the whole planet in on it.

I mean.. That's assuming a lot isn't it? It could have happened yea, but its pretty bad when someone gets assaulted and the first thought is "yea but they probably cheated"

Assaulting someone isn't the most rational choice. Could it not be possible that an irrational cause led to the assault as well?

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

Andrew shaw is the latest to thank the hockey gods he doesn't have to play Weber anymore... Says he broke his ribs in the past lol

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

I laugh when I hear how a guy who scored 20 goals had 51 points and is feared by most players and lavished praise by all gm and coaches rather then media and analysts is on the decline...

Can't wait to see his bounce back year?

[Meller93]

I laugh when I hear how a guy who scored 20 goals had 51 points and is feared by most players and lavished praise by all gm and coaches rather then media and analysts is on the decline...

Can't wait to see his bounce back year?

Thanks for a dose of much needed optimism, and probably realism

[DON]

I laugh when I hear how a guy who scored 20 goals had 51 points and is feared by most players and lavished praise by all gm and coaches rather then media and analysts is on the decline...

Can't wait to see his bounce back year

But the fancy stats...what about the fancy stats??? He is in decline and likely will be working at a Kelowna McDonalds, flipping burgers for a living in a couple years.

[Link67]

I laugh when I hear how a guy who scored 20 goals had 51 points and is feared by most players and lavished praise by all gm and coaches rather then media and analysts is on the decline...

Can't wait to see his bounce back year

My sentiments exactly, every hockey person making any sort of statement is always speaking about how happy they are not to deal with Weber anymore. But the ALL KNOWING fans of Montreal, are hell bent on establishing he is a bum and we just traded a gold ring for a toy ring.

the best coach in hockey right now established Weber is his guy way before Subban would be, no one thinks that requires some deep reflection about each player? truly? We are all such great know it alls that not only do we believe the best coach in hockey is wrong, he is out in left field, barely even on the planet wrong? Biased opinions at their finest.

I keep asking to remove the Subban favoritism from the equation and truly evaluate what you hear and what you see, but every other comment is riddled with a ridiculous amount of bias, and borderline whining.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

The "Weber is a bum" is hyperbole.

Weber still has 20 goal potential, still has good ability when it comes to even strength puck possession, and is still a threatening player on the ice.

But Weber also isn't what he used to be, and he'll be less of what he is now sooner than later. A declining asset is still an asset.

The real problem for Weber will come from the fact his style is nothing like Subban's, especially when it comes to his foot speed. It's very possible he works better in Therrien's system because he will be more willing to dump the puck instead of carry it. Neither Shea Weber or Andrei Markov have the footspeed to carry against top lines on the road and Nathan Beaulieu might not be there yet to do it in Markov's stead. That means a complete change in how the puck is carried on the top line. Either Montreal changes their style up to dump the puck or works towards Weber and Markov getting the puck to a faster forward who does the work, which creates an easy situation for opponent's to neutral zone trap the Habs.

That's not even getting into how PK Subban is one of the best shot suppressors in the NHL and Shea Weber has awful numbers for shot suppression in Nashville. Unless Weber changes up his style and can keep shots from coming to Carey Price/Mike Condon/Al Montoya/Pat Jablonski, we're going to have even more time than ever spent in the defensive zone trying to keep pucks from coming at the goalie.

That's not to say this all can't work out for Montreal. Weber playing a dump and chase style, which would satisfy Therrien more, could lead to Montreal changing up their style that works to the team Therrien is trying to coach. Less friction with the coach could lead to a happier lineup. Montreal might go back to focusing more on succeeding on the powerplay, which could lead to a lot of wins (not that Montreal was hurting in that department two years ago) and with Weber/Shaw bringing more physicality to the lineup, maybe some players skate more freely with the puck because of it. But even then, Montreal would have to prove that playing a style of hockey that hasn't succeeded to the Cup much since the lockout is the way to go. Basically, Montreal would be bigger underdogs than ever before. Kinda funny but it's true. They would be trying to prove to the National Hockey League that they were the first team in a very long time to win the Stanley Cup playing dump and chase. Despite Montreal now being a more physical team. If you're fine with that, Shea Weber is just what the doctor ordered. If you were hoping Montreal would trend towards what has worked for most Cup teams, this might not be a good omen.

[BCHabnut]

My sentiments exactly, every hockey person making any sort of statement is always speaking about how happy they are not to deal with Weber anymore. But the ALL KNOWING fans of Montreal, are hell bent on establishing he is a bum and we just traded a gold ring for a toy ring.

the best coach in hockey right now established Weber is his guy way before Subban would be, no one thinks that requires some deep reflection about each player? truly? We are all such great know it alls that not only do we believe the best coach in hockey is wrong, he is out in left field, barely even on the planet wrong? Biased opinions at their finest.

I keep asking to remove the Subban favoritism from the equation and truly evaluate what you hear and what you see, but every other comment is riddled with a ridiculous amount of bias, and borderline whining.

Quenville established he is his guy?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The "Weber is a bum" is hyperbole.

Weber still has 20 goal potential, still has good ability when it comes to even strength puck possession, and is still a threatening player on the ice.

But Weber also isn't what he used to be, and he'll be less of what he is now sooner than later. A declining asset is still an asset.

The real problem for Weber will come from the fact his style is nothing like Subban's, especially when it comes to his foot speed. It's very possible he works better in Therrien's system because he will be more willing to dump the puck instead of carry it. Neither Shea Weber or Andrei Markov have the footspeed to carry against top lines on the road and Nathan Beaulieu might not be there yet to do it in Markov's stead. That means a complete change in how the puck is carried on the top line. Either Montreal changes their style up to dump the puck or works towards Weber and Markov getting the puck to a faster forward who does the work, which creates an easy situation for opponent's to neutral zone trap the Habs.

That's not even getting into how PK Subban is one of the best shot suppressors in the NHL and Shea Weber has awful numbers for shot suppression in Nashville. Unless Weber changes up his style and can keep shots from coming to Carey Price/Mike Condon/Al Montoya/Pat Jablonski, we're going to have even more time than ever spent in the defensive zone trying to keep pucks from coming at the goalie.

That's not to say this all can't work out for Montreal. Weber playing a dump and chase style, which would satisfy Therrien more, could lead to Montreal changing up their style that works to the team Therrien is trying to coach. Less friction with the coach could lead to a happier lineup. Montreal might go back to focusing more on succeeding on the powerplay, which could lead to a lot of wins (not that Montreal was hurting in that department two years ago) and with Weber/Shaw bringing more physicality to the lineup, maybe some players skate more freely with the puck because of it. But even then, Montreal would have to prove that playing a style of hockey that hasn't succeeded to the Cup much since the lockout is the way to go. Basically, Montreal would be bigger underdogs than ever before. Kinda funny but it's true. They would be trying to prove to the National Hockey League that they were the first team in a very long time to win the Stanley Cup playing dump and chase. Despite Montreal now being a more physical team. If you're fine with that, Shea Weber is just what the doctor ordered. If you were hoping Montreal would trend towards what has worked for most Cup teams, this might not be a good omen.

I think that's some great analysis, and I've had similar thoughts. Until last year's disaster, the Habs were known for their deadly transition game - and Subban was the primary driver of it. Unless N8 comes up big, this trade represents a potentially major, and potentially problematic shift in team philosophy away from speed, transition, and possession...all elements that seem to be increasingly important in today's game.

[Guest Stogey24]

Exactly, Subban is the modern day NHL D-man. Fast, great first pass, and great with the puck....I'm going to stop right there though, I'm starting to tear up.