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I've had a long time to digest this, and I just don't get it.

I am a HUGE Weber fan, and I'm excited to have him on the team. He's an exceptional player. I'll be one of the first to rock a Habs WEBER Jersey.

I'm not surprised to see PK go. There was too much going on in that room for the status quo to remain.

But, I figured the return would be a bit better. Maybe a package.. Hall/Nurse/Yak+ or Duchene/Barrie+.. I'm surprised it's one for one.

I'm a Habs fan, and I'll root just as strongly this year as I did last.

Let's see the on-ice product. If this fixes the room, it may make up for the difference between a PK and a Shea.

Ahhh, optimism!

I agree, I thought a huge package from Edm was coming back if Subban got traded, and although disappointed a bit, I really like Weber, and will be looking forward to the team next season.

Great post man. :thumbs_up:

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72 pages of debate in this thread alone plus the countless times it cropped up in others, and it all ends up with Nashville sending him away in a cap dump. We can now officially put this baby to bed.

F**K YOU MARC BERGEVIN.

He did not "get dumped because he is a liability to his team".  That's not true. He got dumped because his GM has mismanaged the cap and no one will take players who suck like Nick Bonino or kyle T

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So after thinking on this more, I realized something. Weber doesn't have a NTC/NMC. For everyone worrying about the cap hit for 9 more years, if Weber doesn't work out, don't protect him for the expansion draft. Without a NMC/NTC there's nothing forcing us to protect him. We have a 1 year test period to see if he really has declined, if he has, he will be picked up in the expansion draft.

Seeing more upside to this now.

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So after thinking on this more, I realized something. Weber doesn't have a NTC/NMC. For everyone worrying about the cap hit for 9 more years, if Weber doesn't work out, don't protect him for the expansion draft. Without a NMC/NTC there's nothing forcing us to protect him. We have a 1 year test period to see if he really has declined, if he has, he will be picked up in the expansion draft.

Seeing more upside to this now.

I hope this is hyperbole...I really do :(

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I've had a long time to digest this, and I just don't get it.

I am a HUGE Weber fan, and I'm excited to have him on the team. He's an exceptional player. I'll be one of the first to rock a Habs WEBER Jersey.

I'm not surprised to see PK go. There was too much going on in that room for the status quo to remain.

But, I figured the return would be a bit better. Maybe a package.. Hall/Nurse/Yak+ or Duchene/Barrie+.. I'm surprised it's one for one.

I'm a Habs fan, and I'll root just as strongly this year as I did last.

Let's see the on-ice product. If this fixes the room, it may make up for the difference between a PK and a Shea.

I am not surprised neither, after PK didn't come back from his neck injury I felt he wouldn't come back. Weber's contract and hockey stats are arguably comparable. PK is a special person, but hockey wise I think the CH will be OK in the short term.

So after thinking on this more, I realized something. Weber doesn't have a NTC/NMC. For everyone worrying about the cap hit for 9 more years, if Weber doesn't work out, don't protect him for the expansion draft. Without a NMC/NTC there's nothing forcing us to protect him. We have a 1 year test period to see if he really has declined, if he has, he will be picked up in the expansion draft.

Seeing more upside to this now.

I have not seen much posted (may have missed it) on what this trade and the Eller trade mean for the expansion draft. I think that is where it makes some business sense. It seems like MB is building a new core to protect and looking to improve that core.

My only hope is that we now get that top-6 right-winger we all covet. Only then will the PK trade be more digestible: if we end-up with a cup contender team. Anything less than that is failure to me.

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I am not surprised neither, after PK didn't come back from his neck injury I felt he wouldn't come back. Weber's contract and hockey stats are arguably comparable. PK is a special person, but hockey wise I think the CH will be OK in the short term.

I have not seen much posted (may have missed it) on what this trade and the Eller trade mean for the expansion draft. I think that is where it makes some business sense. It seems like MB is building a new core to protect and looking to improve that core.

My only hope is that we now get that top-6 right-winger we all covet. Only then will the PK trade be more digestible: if we end-up with a cup contender team. Anything less than that is failure to me.

We could had had PK AND a new top 6 winger, the PK/Weber trade doesn't affect the ability to get a top 6 winger so I can't see why people keep bringing this up. To make a bad trade to hope to get a better trade later on but using no resources from the first trade, unless we're trading Weber away.

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So after thinking on this more, I realized something. Weber doesn't have a NTC/NMC. For everyone worrying about the cap hit for 9 more years, if Weber doesn't work out, don't protect him for the expansion draft. Without a NMC/NTC there's nothing forcing us to protect him. We have a 1 year test period to see if he really has declined, if he has, he will be picked up in the expansion draft.

Seeing more upside to this now.

So wait, there is upside in trading PK subban for a player we plan to lose in a year for no return.

No there is no upside there.

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So wait, there is upside in trading PK subban for a player we plan to lose in a year for no return.

No there is no upside there.

No shit eh. Like Yay, we can trade Weber in 5 years. I'm so happy we traded P.K now.
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Weber is probably a hall of famer. So in the short term we break even. Long term I believe we lose this deal. But who knows what the future holds? Circumstances may change.

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Weber is probably a hall of famer. So in the short term we break even. Long term I believe we lose this deal. But who knows what the future holds? Circumstances may change.

He's a worse player than Subban in every respect except the boomer from the point on the PP, and even that is exaggerated because of Subban's outlier season last year. OK, maybe Weber is meaner. Whoo-ee.

We lose short term, we lose long term, we lose contractually, we get slower, we lose every which way. Stop kidding yourself.

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People are looking at this as PK vs Shea solely on the ice, their stats, etc..

This is WAY more than that.

Montreal has Juulsen and Sergachev in the system and both can be mentored by Weber. How amazing is that? One of the best defencemen in the world for the last several years!!

I don't know if there is a DMan in the league I'd rather have helping out those two.

Pacs and PK didn't get along and, although it will never be confirmed, that probably divided the room and caused some issues. The stuff that occurs off ice within the group can have more of an impact than the on-ice talent.

PK was an elite talent. But so is Weber.

Again, if you look at the bigger picture and see the impact this has on other players - it's a WIN for Montreal.

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People are looking at this as PK vs Shea solely on the ice, their stats, etc..

This is WAY more than that.

Montreal has Juulsen and Sergachev in the system and both can be mentored by Weber. How amazing is that? One of the best defencemen in the world for the last several years!!

I don't know if there is a DMan in the league I'd rather have helping out those two.

Pacs and PK didn't get along and, although it will never be confirmed, that probably divided the room and caused some issues. The stuff that occurs off ice within the group can have more of an impact than the on-ice talent.

PK was an elite talent. But so is Weber.

Again, if you look at the bigger picture and see the impact this has on other players - it's a WIN for Montreal.

That's a good point that I put some thought into myself. The Predators have had a steady stream of great defenseman coming through the organization in recent years. Is that a result of good drafting/coaching or also the presence of Shea Weber? He definitely seems to be well respected and perhaps having that on ice leader will do wonders for the Habs young defense prospects.

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Yeah, this is a great move for a rebuilding club like ours...could really pay dividends in five years if we can unload that albatross of a contract, eh? ("Wait, is that PK Subban ripping up the league - ? Quick, look over here, we've got good D prospects!!")

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Yeah, this is a great move for a rebuilding club like ours...could really pay dividends in five years if we can unload that albatross of a contract, eh? ("Wait, is that PK Subban ripping up the league - ? Quick, look over here, we've got good D prospects!!")

Among the many negatives of the trade, there are in fact some positives to come from it. I feel like this is one of them. Maybe Beaulieu can develop into a Josi level talent alongside Weber. Maybe Sergachev can make the jump next year and have an impact. I dislike the trade as much as the next guy but it's not like we got dog shit in return.

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I love watching PK on and off the ice. I am so disappointed.

So to try to understand MB's hockey strategy, putting aside the ego's etc., I wonder if something like this is his plan.

They ended up drafting Sergachev with the 9th pick. Were they surprised to get him then? Were they maybe expecting to get a forward??

So I wonder if shortly after they drafted him they see him as their future #1 D and wanted a Weber type and Markov to be his role models?

If Weber has 3-4 good years left that gives Sergachev the time to develop into a #1 D.

If they had drafted Nylander maybe this trade never happens??

For me, this is how I think MB is hoping and planning for the future on defence.

I still hate the trade! But if we pick up a very good UFA scoring forward, that will ease the pain a bit with the other positive changes we've

made....Muller, Shaw, Eller, add a very good forward and that will be something to look forward to.

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Among the many negatives of the trade, there are in fact some positives to come from it. I feel like this is one of them. Maybe Beaulieu can develop into a Josi level talent alongside Weber. Maybe Sergachev can make the jump next year and have an impact. I dislike the trade as much as the next guy but it's not like we got dog shit in return.

You're right...the leadership/mentorship angle is probably valid. I'll admit that. And as you say, not enough to override the fact that we traded a better, younger player for an inferior, older one with an even worse contract. But, fair point - IF we ignore that the supposed leadership void could have been filled without trading A FRIGGING SUPERSTAR.

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The fact that Bergevin would only say "we're a better team" only confirms the reason behind the trade (and not say why he thinks we're a better "team"), and that it wasn't to improve the on ice product. Trying to spin this in any way that it was about the player, and not the personality of the player, is just plain incorrect.

At least in their time of a brain camp they identified that by trading Subban, the huge hole in the defense needed to be filled, and that the only way to do that was to trade Subban for a quality defenseman. While I won't knock Weber, there's no way that, say, a 34 year old Weber is going to be better than a 30 year old Subban. To trade Subban due to personality conflicts and worsen the product on the ice is unforgivable, and that is the key.

Poor Weber will, in most fan's eyes, be the player brought in to replace Subban. Any gaffe or slump will only be magnified by fans, yet underplayed elsewhere. I'm sure Weber will be solid for at least the next couple of years, but he most likely won't be near as entertaining.

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The fact that Bergevin would only say "we're a better team" only confirms the reason behind the trade (and not say why he thinks we're a better "team"), and that it wasn't to improve the on ice product. Trying to spin this in any way that it was about the player, and not the personality of the player, is just plain incorrect.

At least in their time of a brain camp they identified that by trading Subban, the huge hole in the defense needed to be filled, and that the only way to do that was to trade Subban for a quality defenseman. While I won't knock Weber, there's no way that, say, a 34 year old Weber is going to be better than a 30 year old Subban. To trade Subban due to personality conflicts and worsen the product on the ice is unforgivable, and that is the key.

Poor Weber will, in most fan's eyes, be the player brought in to replace Subban. Any gaffe or slump will only be magnified by fans, yet underplayed elsewhere. I'm sure Weber will be solid for at least the next couple of years, but he most likely won't be near as entertaining.

I would not be shocked at all if Weber is lustily booed every time he hits the ice. In the event that he struggles with the adjustment, it could well get extremely ugly extremely fast, especially since a guy like that will be completely unused to that kind of antagonism (unlike Subban, who has been flipping the bird to doubters his entire life). Now, I think that Weber is good enough to eventually win over grudging respect from the Bell Centre vultures. But he will need to make some strong statements with his play early on to avoid the real danger of a cascading disaster, where fan loathing frustrates the player, which generates more fan loathing, etc..

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We have no idea what our D prospects will amount to.

We do know what we have in PK SUbban - or had :(

If MB was doing his job, he would have seen how exposed Weber was in the playoffs. I think we are going to see a seep drop-off in his performance over the next two years - it's already started.

He should also already know that Markov is no longer a top dman (although from his press conference he seemed delusional on Markov's existing ability and MT's idiotic use of him also show how lousy of a coach he is)

So the question is, do you trade a stud dman I his FRIGGIN prime to bring in a guy who may be a great leader but is in decline to mentor kids who may or may not become a #1 dman.

This deal had nothing to do with planning for the future - because we friggin traded away the future. This deal had to do with the habs obsession to control how their players behave, speak and express themselves. I also think there is some racism involved - at least from MT's side. He has hated SUbban from before he took this job. He repeatedly has singled out Subban and thrown him under the bus on numerous occasions. Both Weber and Peiterangelo made some pretty horrible give-aways in the play-offs - neither of their coaches criticized them - let alone throw them under the bus.

There is no rationalizing this trade. EVERY FRIGGIN analyst out there has been very clear. THe habs LOST this deal both in the SHORT term and LONG term. ALmost every analyst out there has said that Subban is a better dman than Weber TODAY - not 3 or 4 years from now, but TODAY.

This came down to MB/Molson choosing MT over Subban. Just like Houle/Corey/Molson chose Tremblay over Roy. We all know how that turned out don't we.

I can't think of a single instance where a team traded a dman in their prime and didn't regret it. A case can be made for Brad Park - but I don' think he was in his prime at the time. In Subban's case, he has just started his prime.

Do you see Ottawa's coaches calling out Karllson for his giveaways? No. you take the good and the bad and in both cases the good far outweiaghs the bad.

But like I said earlier, this is about the habs obsession to control how their players act, talk and present themselves. It is about ego. It's ego that blinded MT just how good of a player he had. I'd also reiterate there is probably some racism at work here - otherwise, why is it there is not highlight package of Karlson's giveaways?? You could also have put together a highlight package of Weber and Peiterangelo's giveaways in the playoff alone. Why is that no one brings them up???

I love watching PK on and off the ice. I am so disappointed.

So to try to understand MB's hockey strategy, putting aside the ego's etc., I wonder if something like this is his plan.

They ended up drafting Sergachev with the 9th pick. Were they surprised to get him then? Were they maybe expecting to get a forward??

So I wonder if shortly after they drafted him they see him as their future #1 D and wanted a Weber type and Markov to be his role models?

If Weber has 3-4 good years left that gives Sergachev the time to develop into a #1 D.

If they had drafted Nylander maybe this trade never happens??

For me, this is how I think MB is hoping and planning for the future on defence.

I still hate the trade! But if we pick up a very good UFA scoring forward, that will ease the pain a bit with the other positive changes we've

made....Muller, Shaw, Eller, add a very good forward and that will be something to look forward to.

I think Weber will want out of Montreal within a year.

I would not be shocked at all if Weber is lustily booed every time he hits the ice. In the event that he struggles with the adjustment, it could well get extremely ugly extremely fast, especially since a guy like that will be completely unused to that kind of antagonism (unlike Subban, who has been flipping the bird to doubters his entire life). Now, I think that Weber is good enough to eventually win over grudging respect from the Bell Centre vultures. But he will need to make some strong statements with his play early on to avoid the real danger of a cascading disaster, where fan loathing frustrates the player, which generates more fan loathing, etc..

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Guest Stogey24

You're right...the leadership/mentorship angle is probably valid. I'll admit that. And as you say, not enough to override the fact that we traded a better, younger player for an inferior, older one with an even worse contract. But, fair point - IF we ignore that the supposed leadership void could have been filled without trading A FRIGGING SUPERSTAR.

To me it's a selfish move by management. Therrien and Bergevin never liked P.K. Therrien tore into him nightly on R.D.S( I wish he never left).

P.K will flourish under Laviolette and probably be a 70pt D-man paired with Josi,

I beg the question that if Therrien was fired last year, if P.K would still be a member of this team.

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I would not be shocked at all if Weber is lustily booed every time he hits the ice.

Which is really unfortunate considering he's done absolutely nothing wrong. (I have that concern as well.)

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Which is really unfortunate considering he's done absolutely nothing wrong. (I have that concern as well.)

Yup, Weber is apparently a great guy too.
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Which is really unfortunate considering he's done absolutely nothing wrong.

Yea, I think it would be pretty pathetic if he's booed. If fans want to let out frustrations they should be directed at Therrien on opening night when he is introduced.

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What I want to see is that for every exhibition game, every regular season game, regardless of the score, the fans chant "fire Michel Therrien, fire Bergevin"

Yea, I think it would be pretty pathetic if he's booed. If fans want to let out frustrations they should be directed at Therrien on opening night when he is introduced.

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