dlbalr Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I said this in another thread, but until O'Byrne plays 80 NHL games (including playoffs) he is waiver exempt, despite the fact he's on a one way contract. When you sign your first NHL contract at age 21, you are given 3 years or 80 games before waivers kicks in. So despite being on a one way deal, O'Byrne is still waiver exempt. Halak is in a similar situation, except that his criteria is different... because he's a goalie, they are given an extra year to reach the games played plateau. But both players are on one way deals and could be sent to the minors. Latendresse, who reached his games played mark last year, is the opposite... he's on a two way deal but is eligible for waivers. And Price will soon be in the same situation. http://www.nhlscap.com/waivers.htm Based on that page, he's darn near close. O'Byrne signed his first NHL contract 3 years ago, on August 9th, 2006. He's also 23 years of age. On the table, that's 60 games, and he's at 52...I know we're missing something that the website doesn't show, I just can't find what. I know the calculation is also based on professional games played, but reading through the CBA, I still can't find the passage I'm looking for. There's a reason every media outlet is saying O'Byrne has to clear waivers now, but where in the CBA is it? (For anyone interested, start at page 66, that's the waivers section. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I agree with Dutch_Habs_Fan that Ryan O’Byrne has very little to learn at the AHL level, he’s past that point of his career. We’re seen last season that he can be effective in the NHL, and we need to get him back on the right track. He needs to gain his self-confidence back, and as we’ve discussed before on this board, perhaps some better coaching from a former NHL defenseman on a consultant basis (who could probably also help the rest of the squad). Sending him to the minors would only be a form of punishment, which would probably have the reverse effect while being somewhat undeserved as he’s working very hard; he’s just thinking way too much, and is more pre-occupied with not making mistakes than doing good things on the ice. He’s basically where Komisarek was a few years ago under Claude Julien. I also agree with simonus that the Canadiens will be a better team in the playoffs with a confident Ryan O’Byrne, as were the Bulldogs during their run for the Calder Cup; O’Byrne was a dominating physical force, and was a key player for them along with Price and Chipchura. Beautiful post. I could not agree more. Its not often we agree to this extent but Ryan just needs time and patience. As for getting a defense coach that would be glorious and I think Gainey would welcoem one but he has to get the right fit for Carbo Jarvis and Muller. Larry Robinson would have been the ideal choice but that ship has surely sailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 He just has to work on being on the right side of the puck defending. Right now he is chasing the attacker instead of getting into the skating lane and hitting the attacker. He also needs to protect and move the puck better when getting a dumped in puck, especially when he is skating towards the defensive backboards. Give him time. Maybe he'll surprise us with improvements soon. They'll work with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 (edited) The kid has only played about 50 games in the NHL. Give him some time to develop. Komisarek took over 2 seasons. Toughest position in the league to master. He'll be alright Edited November 21, 2008 by kaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 The kid has only played about 50 games in the NHL. Give him some time to develop. Komisarek took over 2 seasons. Toughest position in the league to master. He'll be alright And Komi also bounced between the NHL and AHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Based on that page, he's darn near close. O'Byrne signed his first NHL contract 3 years ago, on August 9th, 2006. He's also 23 years of age. On the table, that's 60 games, and he's at 52...I know we're missing something that the website doesn't show, I just can't find what. I know the calculation is also based on professional games played, but reading through the CBA, I still can't find the passage I'm looking for. There's a reason every media outlet is saying O'Byrne has to clear waivers now, but where in the CBA is it? (For anyone interested, start at page 66, that's the waivers section. ) Not quite accurate here. Below the table, it gives a key, and the age part you've messed up here: Age = age when signing 1st NHL contract as described in Article 8 So, he was 22 years old when he signed his first contract (he was born Jul 19/84; he's actually 24). Which means I was wrong as well. I thought he was 21. This means he is 18 games away from being waiver eligible, as he gets 70 games, not 80 like I had assumed. The section on professional games has to do with the re-entry waiver rules, not regular waivers. Those rules are explained further down the page. Media outlets tend to be lazy on this kind of detail, thinking that two-way contracts means a player is waiver exempt. You won't find lazier journalists than on the sports page. Though a lot of journalists in Montreal have a more legit excuse for this kind of information, the CBA is written in English legal speak, which is tough for even native English speakers to comprehend at times. So O'Byrne has 17 games to prove he belongs. Which should be enough to see him stay up for the entirety of Komisarek's absence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Indeed, and like Komisarek he needs to go back to the Hamilton. Komi went back down after a lengthy stint with the Habs. As soon as we have someone who can take his spot, that's exactly where he needs to go. At the very least we have to get him off the second pairing. Having Hamrlik out there a lot doesn't help us when that means O'Byrne is also out there. We need to be limiting his minutes. Patience or not, he is hurting the team right now. I agree with most of what your saying except I would say it like this: As late as we have someone who can take his spot, that's exactly where he needs to go. Come crunch time from how he is playing right now I definitely wouldnt want him on the team in the playoffs. However like others have said he's been in AHL for several years already and he is learning a lot more in the NHL with the Habs than he ever could in the AHL. Like it or not for his progession and the good of the Habs he needs to stay in the NHL for as long as possible this year. At the trade deadline or slightly before that send him down. Hopefully it wont need to come to that because he might have learned enough through this season to have improved enough to consider playing him in the playoffs. O'Byrne really needs actual NHL experience and the regular season is the only time that is possible. This season is different than most years because the Habs are so talented they will make the playoffs regardless if he is or isnt with the Habs. I've got a feeling that I'm not the only one who wouldnt mind seeing the 1st seed Booins playing the 8th seed Habs. Well probably more like 3rd and 6th, but the point is Habs dont need to be 1st and they would probably be better off not being 1st. The Habs dont have any major injuries yet but they do have O'Byrne. he is probably the player that Carbonneau was pointing when he said that he couln't do all he wanted because of NHL cap and rules. I think he was refering to Gorges and Lats. Carbo was also probably speaking in general like going out and signing another elite player (like Gaborik, Sundin) but is handcuffed because of the cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I agree with most of what your saying except I would say it like this: As late as we have someone who can take his spot, that's exactly where he needs to go. Come crunch time from how he is playing right now I definitely wouldnt want him on the team in the playoffs. However like others have said he's been in AHL for several years already and he is learning a lot more in the NHL with the Habs than he ever could in the AHL. Like it or not for his progession and the good of the Habs he needs to stay in the NHL for as long as possible this year. At the trade deadline or slightly before that send him down. Hopefully it wont need to come to that because he might have learned enough through this season to have improved enough to consider playing him in the playoffs. O'Byrne really needs actual NHL experience and the regular season is the only time that is possible. This season is different than most years because the Habs are so talented they will make the playoffs regardless if he is or isnt with the Habs. I've got a feeling that I'm not the only one who wouldnt mind seeing the 1st seed Booins playing the 8th seed Habs. Well probably more like 3rd and 6th, but the point is Habs dont need to be 1st and they would probably be better off not being 1st. The Habs dont have any major injuries yet but they do have O'Byrne. I think he was refering to Gorges and Lats. Carbo was also probably speaking in general like going out and signing another elite player (like Gaborik, Sundin) but is handcuffed because of the cap. Actually a perhaps risky solution would be for Carbonneau to pair O'Byrne with Andrei Markov, like Gainey did a few years ago with a struggling Komisarek. It wouldn't be the first time Markov made an inexperienced defenseman make strides in his development, he also did it last season with Gorges. Some people like Begin react well to being hit on the head while some others need to be challenged. This could give a huge self-confidence boost to O'Byrne, especially since it is easier to play with a top defenseman like Markov; when in doubt, just give the puck to Markov, and he'll get you out of trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Sending him down now should be out of the question without Komisarek. Brisebois and Dandenault will do no better and his O'Byrne's biggest chance yet to prove himself. With Komisarek out he's now THE biggest physical presence on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_faerie87 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 As someone else mentioned, I'd like to see O'Byrne play with Markov, although give Gorges some shifts with Markov so we don't have to see Ryan 20+ minutes a night, at least not right away. Playing the rest of Gorges minutes with Hamrlik would still give him the opportunity to step up and play some quality minutes, as well as letting us see if he can still perform outside Markov's shadow. The third pairing could be Bouillon and whoever (Dandy/Breezer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Personaly I would like to see O'Byrne and Gorges getting 20+ minutes a game when Komi is out. The Habs might lose a few games but who cares they will make the playoffs regardless and thats really what matters. Theres no need to play themselves out trying to be 1st overall. Might as well give the rookies the most opportunity possible and be seeded a bit lower lower and be well rested for a long playoff run instead of burning themselves out trying to be 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMPL Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Man O'Byrne and SK74 are both going through a sophomore curse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I think that should now be spelled O'Burned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Man O'Byrne and SK74 are both going through a sophomore curse sergei has 9 pts in 19 game. last year he had 27 in 52 so he's not that far back. I trust that when Sergei'll put more effort to his game and show more grit he will be over the .5 ppg at the end of the season. I don't know how to proprely say it in english but it seems that O'byrne and SK have the feeling of having reach the top and that they don't have to show the same efforts. O'Byrne really needs to keep his game as simple as possible and play with the same grit he showed last year. both will be fine by the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 Lolololololololololololol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_faerie87 Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 I told you..... He was awful all night....... all night Then...that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 Lololololololol I know why I haven't been winning many games on NHL 09; I'm gonna scratch O'Byrne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les_glorieux Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA zomg he is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 If he isn't on the first flight to Hamilton I will question the leadership of this franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I told you..... He was awful all night....... all night Then...that You weren't watching the same game I was. He was solid and kept things simple. What are you expecting of him? He needs to get back out there. His teammates didn't do him any favours after the fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 If he isn't on the first flight to Hamilton I will question the leadership of this franchise. I question your sanity. Do you always kick guys when they are down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I question your sanity. Do you always kick guys when they are down? You and a few others say this as if he hasn't been teh suck on many a night...it's not just about his 'goal'...that's just the icing on the cake. There are other prospects that deserve to get a look...he's not playing well enough to earn a permanent place on the Habs' roster. How is it fair to the D-men in Hamilton if this guy continues to suck, yet gets to stay with the big team and they never get a chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 You weren't watching the same game I was. He was solid and kept things simple. What are you expecting of him? He needs to get back out there. His teammates didn't do him any favours after the fact. Too bad Canadiens Express is showing mostly highlights. O'burn has turned the pucked over al ot of times tonight I question your sanity. Do you always kick guys when they are down? Well, O'Byrne always kicks us when we are up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_faerie87 Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 LOLOLOLOLOLOL! Some crazy psycho chick just called into CJAD saying she wants to break O'Byrne's legs. Tonya Harding much? o,O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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