Habs @ Sabres | Game Thread

[tomh009]

Seriously though....hook him up to IV's, get him on an epinephrine pump, whatever it takes. We need Halak back in there!

A goalie who works miracles (or appears to) will always increase the confidence of the team in front of him. Let in easy goals, though, and you start demoralizing the team. The goalie will have a disproportionate psychological effect -- and a goalie that appears not to be trying hard is not going to inspire the team.

[sbhatt]

A goalie who works miracles (or appears to) will always increase the confidence of the team in front of him. Let in easy goals, though, and you start demoralizing the team. The goalie will have a disproportionate psychological effect -- and a goalie that appears not to be trying hard is not going to inspire the team.

What he said.

[brobin]

A goalie who works miracles (or appears to) will always increase the confidence of the team in front of him. Let in easy goals, though, and you start demoralizing the team. The goalie will have a disproportionate psychological effect -- and a goalie that appears not to be trying hard is not going to inspire the team.

You could tell after that first goal that Price was toast. It wasn't his fault on the goal, but he reacted like he just couldn't win. He has zero confidence..

I think the problem was the all star game. He came back too early so he wouldn't miss it. He should have healed up, then got to Hamilton for a conditioning stint for a few games..

[tomh009]

I think the problem was the all star game. He came back too early so he wouldn't miss it. He should have healed up, then got to Hamilton for a conditioning stint for a few games..

But going down to the minors, even for conditioning is tough. Especially after having been hyped for two years as the future of the franchise. The pressure is on him ... and maybe it's a year or two too soon.

Unless either Price's or Halak's performance changes radically, I simply don't see how you Carbo could designate Price as the #1 goalie for the playoffs (assuming we make it that far).

[TheGreat88]

Hey guys, new to the board.

I've read a lot of what you guys have been saying in terms of your player and admin opinions and I think it's time I threw in my $0.02 about Bob Gainey, Carbo and the rest of the team... and tonight set up the perfect example for me. After coming out of a BG press conference basically stating that he has full faith in our team (which has been painfully underperforming as of late) we go ahead and lose to Buffalo in a disgusting display. It's almost as if the Habs did this because they wanted BG to look stupid, or something. I wish that were the case but unfortunately we all know that the Habs have shown us the past few seasons why our rivals in Toronto refer to the team as the Montreal Hasbeens. As true Habs fans, we can see it. The rest of the league can see it. I think we have a good team, and I think last season was a true reflection of potential and talent, not luck. The problem is harnessing that talent in a successful way again.

I see so many of you using the "He's cooking something up, DON'T YOU WORRY!" excuse every time BG pulls an unpopular move. Recently, for example: Begin to Dallas was both seen as a "cap-lowering-move" to some and a "move-out-of-respect" to others, nothing to worry about. Big plans coming. When we grabbed Metropolit, many of you spoke of how big things MUST be on the way if we're grabbing guys of his calibre. Now, after we do absolutely nothing at the trade deadline, many of you are prophesying that good 'ole BG is cooking something up for after the end of the season. Until he delivers something that I can actually appreciate, I'm going to stick to my guns and say I've lost faith in him.

Carbo? Lost. Completely lost. As soon as I heard Carey was in nets tonight, I knew the game was over, in a bad way. I love Price and can't wait until he gets his groove back, but Halak has been doing really well as of late Even if it's just a temporary streak I can't possibly see how removing him before the streak ends is good for anyone. Playing Price was a risk. No secret there. Halak was less of a risk as we knew he had been doing well lately, and even if he had lost the game tonight he would have at least had a chance at a 5-game winning streak. Let's be honest... he's the reason why we were on a streak in the first place. Nevermind the endless line changes, playing Laraque when he complains to the press (I guess he isn't getting paid enough to sit around ) I just don't understand Carbo's decision flow.

This brings us to the players. We all saw the game tonight. I don't even think I need to explain myself here. They play the same way in every game... It hurts to watch. However, I still think we have the talent in those guys, and they showed us that last season. What happened to that drive and passion?

My conclusion? There's a big problem in admin and coaching. There are little problems in our lineups but I think they can be overcome if Carbo and BG (and the rest of the staff) truly get behind them... or light a fire under their ass. Say what you will of Kovy being sent home for 2 games... He's still apathetic and it shows. He's supposed to be our knight in shining armor (he gets paid as though he is, anyways...). And besides, the rest of the team needs a kick in the pants too. They need a good reminder of what they were last season (what they still CAN BE) and of what lies at the end... a big shiny cup.

So, we have a team that is performing worse than it should, a head coach who can't make up his mind and a GM who sees the world through rose-tinted glasses. I've never had the chance to talk to Carbo or BG personally and ask the questions I would like to, so I can't say for sure... but I think someone's gotta go and it's going to be one of them before the Habs are true contenders again.

The last thing I want is our team to become the Toronto Maple Leafs up until very recently. Bad GM, useless coaching and talentless team. We're at 2/3 as it stands (in my opinion).

So, I know this has all been said before and my post was a little long-winded... But I needed to have my voice heard! Haha I moved from Montreal to attend university in Kingston, Ontario (sue me, I'm an Anglophone...) and am surrounded by Leafs fans with whom this type of conversation is impossible.

(And, for the record, Leafs fans can't hold a torch to us. Most of them can't even name 5 current-roster players. They all act like they love it, but they don't. How they get credit in the NHL for being amazing fans baffles me!)

[Colin]

Can we be negative in this thread?

WE SUCK

I feel better now. Go Habs.

Whew. Stroked a homer with that, didn't I.

[ForumGhost]

Carbo? Lost. Completely lost. As soon as I heard Carey was in nets tonight, I knew the game was over, in a bad way. I love Price and can't wait until he gets his groove back, but Halak has been doing really well as of late Even if it's just a temporary streak I can't possibly see how removing him before the streak ends is good for anyone. Playing Price was a risk. No secret there. Halak was less of a risk as we knew he had been doing well lately, and even if he had lost the game tonight he would have at least had a chance at a 5-game winning streak. Let's be honest... he's the reason why we were on a streak in the first place. Nevermind the endless line changes, playing Laraque when he complains to the press (I guess he isn't getting paid enough to sit around ) I just don't understand Carbo's decision flow.

It was either him or Denis...

The problem is that Price still hasn't got his head right. I think he can only be really faulted for one, maybe two goals, but if he was playing with the confidence he had before, you have to believe it would have been much closer. I think he needs to be put in nets against a soft team that doesn't have much offense to help his confidence back. Atlanta would be ideal, but Carbo's gotta start Halak. It's the better move for the team, especially since his streak never really ended.

[mee]

Last year, they started to play great after this.

would love to join this league for ehm, sent email though hwl website but haven't gotten a response. Any ideas

[TheGreat88]

It was either him or Denis...

The problem is that Price still hasn't got his head right. I think he can only be really faulted for one, maybe two goals, but if he was playing with the confidence he had before, you have to believe it would have been much closer. I think he needs to be put in nets against a soft team that doesn't have much offense to help his confidence back. Atlanta would be ideal, but Carbo's gotta start Halak. It's the better move for the team, especially since his streak never really ended.

Oh haha you're right. In my frustration I actually forgot about the Halak situation. Foot. In. Mouth. (for that point)

But you're right, Halak needs the start for Atlanta. However, don't be surprised if Carbo plays Price. I can see the reasoning already: "I can't bench Carey every time he loses a game. That's bad for his confidence. Let's play him against Atlanta." Hey, don't count it out yet.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Hey guys, new to the board.

I've read a lot of what you guys have been saying in terms of your player and admin opinions and I think it's time I threw in my $0.02 about Bob Gainey, Carbo and the rest of the team... and tonight set up the perfect example for me. After coming out of a BG press conference basically stating that he has full faith in our team (which has been painfully underperforming as of late) we go ahead and lose to Buffalo in a disgusting display. It's almost as if the Habs did this because they wanted BG to look stupid, or something. I wish that were the case but unfortunately we all know that the Habs have shown us the past few seasons why our rivals in Toronto refer to the team as the Montreal Hasbeens. As true Habs fans, we can see it. The rest of the league can see it. I think we have a good team, and I think last season was a true reflection of potential and talent, not luck. The problem is harnessing that talent in a successful way again.

I see so many of you using the "He's cooking something up, DON'T YOU WORRY!" excuse every time BG pulls an unpopular move. Recently, for example: Begin to Dallas was both seen as a "cap-lowering-move" to some and a "move-out-of-respect" to others, nothing to worry about. Big plans coming. When we grabbed Metropolit, many of you spoke of how big things MUST be on the way if we're grabbing guys of his calibre. Now, after we do absolutely nothing at the trade deadline, many of you are prophesying that good 'ole BG is cooking something up for after the end of the season. Until he delivers something that I can actually appreciate, I'm going to stick to my guns and say I've lost faith in him.

Carbo? Lost. Completely lost. As soon as I heard Carey was in nets tonight, I knew the game was over, in a bad way. I love Price and can't wait until he gets his groove back, but Halak has been doing really well as of late Even if it's just a temporary streak I can't possibly see how removing him before the streak ends is good for anyone. Playing Price was a risk. No secret there. Halak was less of a risk as we knew he had been doing well lately, and even if he had lost the game tonight he would have at least had a chance at a 5-game winning streak. Let's be honest... he's the reason why we were on a streak in the first place. Nevermind the endless line changes, playing Laraque when he complains to the press (I guess he isn't getting paid enough to sit around ) I just don't understand Carbo's decision flow.

This brings us to the players. We all saw the game tonight. I don't even think I need to explain myself here. They play the same way in every game... It hurts to watch. However, I still think we have the talent in those guys, and they showed us that last season. What happened to that drive and passion?

My conclusion? There's a big problem in admin and coaching. There are little problems in our lineups but I think they can be overcome if Carbo and BG (and the rest of the staff) truly get behind them... or light a fire under their ass. Say what you will of Kovy being sent home for 2 games... He's still apathetic and it shows. He's supposed to be our knight in shining armor (he gets paid as though he is, anyways...). And besides, the rest of the team needs a kick in the pants too. They need a good reminder of what they were last season (what they still CAN BE) and of what lies at the end... a big shiny cup.

So, we have a team that is performing worse than it should, a head coach who can't make up his mind and a GM who sees the world through rose-tinted glasses. I've never had the chance to talk to Carbo or BG personally and ask the questions I would like to, so I can't say for sure... but I think someone's gotta go and it's going to be one of them before the Habs are true contenders again.

The last thing I want is our team to become the Toronto Maple Leafs up until very recently. Bad GM, useless coaching and talentless team. We're at 2/3 as it stands (in my opinion).

So, I know this has all been said before and my post was a little long-winded... But I needed to have my voice heard! Haha I moved from Montreal to attend university in Kingston, Ontario (sue me, I'm an Anglophone...) and am surrounded by Leafs fans with whom this type of conversation is impossible.

(And, for the record, Leafs fans can't hold a torch to us. Most of them can't even name 5 current-roster players. They all act like they love it, but they don't. How they get credit in the NHL for being amazing fans baffles me!)

Lots there, good stuff. I can certainly understand criticisms of Carbo. I've said several times, on any other franchise his job would at least have come into question by now. As you say - he has a team that should be doing much better.

This gets to my (respectful) criticism of your post. You can't say that

1. the Canadiens are a talented team that should be among the league's elite (as it was last season) AND

2. then blame Gainey for doing a bad job of managing.

Look at this season: he added Tanguay, a bona fide first-line winger; Lang, a bona fide 2nd line C; Schneider, that elsuive 4th D-man and PP quarterback we needed; and Laraque, toughest guy in hockey. All this, added to the many talented young players his regime has developed and inserted into the lineup. Granted, I'm disappointed that he neglected to solve our longer-term problem at C by not pursuing Jokinen. I'm not saying Gainey is perfect. But while one problem on this team *may* be coaching, there is no way there is a problem in 'administration,' as you put it. Gainey assembled a Cup contender on paper. That it has failed to gel is not his responsibility.

[Colin]

So, we have a team that is performing worse than it should, a head coach who can't make up his mind and a GM who sees the world through rose-tinted glasses.

The GM says what he has to say to the press. I have no doubt he made every effort to acquire what we need.

Carbo, on the other hand...

I like Carbo. I always have. When he first came here, he struck me as the kind of coach who could really pull this team together and send us flying forward. However, I'm at the point where I can say that Carbo is just not our guy. We've had players improving steadily, guys getting more and more mature, and still we have absolutely no clue in the defensive zone. You can argue all you want about the players not buying in - I completely disagree. There comes a point where you have to take a step back and ask why the same things continually happen. Sure, there are a lot of things that can be dealt with through personnel moves alone, but the overall picture of the club?

Last season everyone was talking about how we had a dream season. Then we started this year the same way; everything looked rosy in the sky. Does anyone here recall *how* we did so well last season and early this year? We stole games because of one or two players, because we were lucky quite often. The bottom line is that our record last season was very flattering, and our record early this season was astoundingly flattering.

We allow more rubber to hit our goalies than Circuit Gilles Villeneuve allows to hit its tarmac. We offer up the blueline to attackers like a 14-year old buying his first hooker. Our defensive zone coverage is closer to chickens with a fox in the coop than it is anything cohesive. The few times when he manages to get everyone on board for a game, we actually look semi-reasonable, but even in those games, there are significant mental breakdowns.

And now everyone and their dog is talking about how its the players that suck: Price is horrid and looks defeated after the first goal; Komisarek is Captain Giveaway; Kovalev is Valium with a stick. When we hear soundbytes from unhappy players in the dressing room, and particularly from people who've been moved to other cities, they're always *always* saying they don't know what is expected of them. Excuse me? If that isn't crystal clear, then this team doesn't have leadership problems on the ice, it doesn't have an inability to score goals, and it doesn't have the defensive wherewithall to succeed, no. If that isn't so clear you can see the bottom of the deep, blue sea, then what the hell is going on with the coach?

You don't know what you're supposed to be doing?

I mean, we hear all the wonderful excuses: we're not executing; it's the players not doing their jobs. Well, if everyone KNEW their job to start, that would help. If a player doesn't have confidence that he even knows what is job is clearly, then how is he supposed to perform at the highest level? Answer: impossible.

Bob has done a brilliant job putting together a team with all the skill in the world and with more than enough defensive talent to win games on a very regular basis. Blaming Bob is the easy way out. Whup, players not performing; Bob brought them in, must be his fault.

I'm not at all on board with that. There *is* a giant leadership problem on this team, and it comes from the coach. Anticipated comeback for that comment: But Julien was the coach here and he didn't get the kind of results he's getting in Boston! Answer: Julien had a very young Komi - still going up and down to the farm, he had a Markov who couldn't speak English, he had more kids than a daycare - and was terrified to play them for fear of losing his job with losses, and he had three attitude problems which were promptly shipped out! Add to that the fact he now has had plenty more experience and has had tons of time to analyze and adapt to the mistakes he made in his *first* coaching job in the NHL, and it's fairly evident, at least to me, that Julien then and Julien now are two different things.

This team needs a Mike Keenan-type, pure and simple. We need a mean SOB who doesn't take any crap and makes these little buggers earn every single cent in their paycheck. We need someone who will hold EVERY player accountable, not just those he's not intimidated by.

If Bob Gainey has one major flaw, it's that he's married to Carbo. One gets the impression he's going to live or die with that decision, and sadly for us here in Montreal, it's looking more and more like a sinking, wallowing death. It's time for a coaching change in Montreal. Thanks for your service, Guy, we still love you here, but you just aren't cutting it behind the bench. Not by a long shot.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The GM says what he has to say to the press. I have no doubt he made every effort to acquire what we need.

Carbo, on the other hand...

I like Carbo. I always have. When he first came here, he struck me as the kind of coach who could really pull this team together and send us flying forward. However, I'm at the point where I can say that Carbo is just not our guy. We've had players improving steadily, guys getting more and more mature, and still we have absolutely no clue in the defensive zone. You can argue all you want about the players not buying in - I completely disagree. There comes a point where you have to take a step back and ask why the same things continually happen. Sure, there are a lot of things that can be dealt with through personnel moves alone, but the overall picture of the club?

Last season everyone was talking about how we had a dream season. Then we started this year the same way; everything looked rosy in the sky. Does anyone here recall *how* we did so well last season and early this year? We stole games because of one or two players, because we were lucky quite often. The bottom line is that our record last season was very flattering, and our record early this season was astoundingly flattering.

We allow more rubber to hit our goalies than Circuit Gilles Villeneuve allows to hit its tarmac. We offer up the blueline to attackers like a 14-year old buying his first hooker. Our defensive zone coverage is closer to chickens with a fox in the coop than it is anything cohesive. The few times when he manages to get everyone on board for a game, we actually look semi-reasonable, but even in those games, there are significant mental breakdowns.

And now everyone and their dog is talking about how its the players that suck: Price is horrid and looks defeated after the first goal; Komisarek is Captain Giveaway; Kovalev is Valium with a stick. When we hear soundbytes from unhappy players in the dressing room, and particularly from people who've been moved to other cities, they're always *always* saying they don't know what is expected of them. Excuse me? If that isn't crystal clear, then this team doesn't have leadership problems on the ice, it doesn't have an inability to score goals, and it doesn't have the defensive wherewithall to succeed, no. If that isn't so clear you can see the bottom of the deep, blue sea, then what the hell is going on with the coach?

You don't know what you're supposed to be doing?

I mean, we hear all the wonderful excuses: we're not executing; it's the players not doing their jobs. Well, if everyone KNEW their job to start, that would help. If a player doesn't have confidence that he even knows what is job is clearly, then how is he supposed to perform at the highest level? Answer: impossible.

Bob has done a brilliant job putting together a team with all the skill in the world and with more than enough defensive talent to win games on a very regular basis. Blaming Bob is the easy way out. Whup, players not performing; Bob brought them in, must be his fault.

I'm not at all on board with that. There *is* a giant leadership problem on this team, and it comes from the coach. Anticipated comeback for that comment: But Julien was the coach here and he didn't get the kind of results he's getting in Boston! Answer: Julien had a very young Komi - still going up and down to the farm, he had a Markov who couldn't speak English, he had more kids than a daycare - and was terrified to play them for fear of losing his job with losses, and he had three attitude problems which were promptly shipped out! Add to that the fact he now has had plenty more experience and has had tons of time to analyze and adapt to the mistakes he made in his *first* coaching job in the NHL, and it's fairly evident, at least to me, that Julien then and Julien now are two different things.

This team needs a Mike Keenan-type, pure and simple. We need a mean SOB who doesn't take any crap and makes these little buggers earn every single cent in their paycheck. We need someone who will hold EVERY player accountable, not just those he's not intimidated by.

If Bob Gainey has one major flaw, it's that he's married to Carbo. One gets the impression he's going to live or die with that decision, and sadly for us here in Montreal, it's looking more and more like a sinking, wallowing death. It's time for a coaching change in Montreal. Thanks for your service, Guy, we still love you here, but you just aren't cutting it behind the bench. Not by a long shot.

Really, really excellent post.

I also have never had it in for Carbo and have been reluctant to call for his head. And I think that if we do can him, he'll resurface elsewhere, wiser for this experience, and go on to be terrific coach in the mode of Julien. But when you've got a terrific team on paper that plays as dimsally as this bunch has done, there may be no easy way around your conclusions.

People will, as you say, point to Therrien and Julien and blame the players. I like your response. And I would just add that we should consider that their experience in Montreal may have led to their becoming better coaches than they were for us. Which is why I'm frankly tired of Montreal being a training ground for rookie coaches. That was OK when we were bottom-feeders and a 'developing' organization. Now we are supposed to be contenders, goddamit! Bring in someone with a track record. I don't know who at this point, though - but experience and discipline would be my first criteria. Were it not for his tragic illness, Pat Burns would be absolutely perfect.

Edited March 5, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Colin]

Really, really excellent post.

I also have never had it in for Carbo and have been reluctant to call for his head. And I think that if we do can him, he'll resurface elsewhere, wiser for this experience, and go on to be terrific coach in the mode of Julien. But when you've got a terrific team on paper that plays as dimsally as this bunch has done, there may be no easy way around your conclusions.

People will, as you say, point to Therrien and Julien and blame the players. I like your response. And I would just add that we should consider that their experience in Montreal may have led to their becoming better coaches than they were for us. Which is why I'm frankly tired of Montreal being a training ground for rookie coaches. That was OK when we were bottom-feeders and a 'developing' organization. Now we are supposed to be contenders, goddamit! Bring in someone with a track record. I don't know who at this point, though - but experience and discipline would be my first criteria. Were it not for his tragic illness, Pat Burns would be absolutely perfect.

First, thanks.

Second, you can add Vigneault to that list of great coaches. He had the superstars Johan Witehall and Juha Lind on his Habs squad.

Third, we should have made a move for Tortorella at the very least. He may not be French enough for the media, but you don't need to really understand when all the coach does is yell and scream and cuss at his players for not playing. Maybe Hitchcock will be fired and Bob can bring him here. Lemaire would have us playing boring-to-death hockey - and we'd have a Cup with this talented lot within two years.

[bombTHEice]

Last season everyone was talking about how we had a dream season. Then we started this year the same way; everything looked rosy in the sky. Does anyone here recall *how* we did so well last season and early this year? We stole games because of one or two players, because we were lucky quite often. The bottom line is that our record last season was very flattering, and our record early this season was astoundingly flattering.

We allow more rubber to hit our goalies than Circuit Gilles Villeneuve allows to hit its tarmac. We offer up the blueline to attackers like a 14-year old buying his first hooker. Our defensive zone coverage is closer to chickens with a fox in the coop than it is anything cohesive. The few times when he manages to get everyone on board for a game, we actually look semi-reasonable, but even in those games, there are significant mental breakdowns.

Yea, we allow tons of rubber every night but somehow Halak seems to have no problem with it and keeps winning - Price simply not. Tonight we even had more shots than the Sabres and still Price manged to surrender another 5 goals. He simply isn't on his game. I only hope that Halak will be ready to go vs. the Trashers - it's not the best time right now to give Price time to regain his form (although there wasn't another opportunity due to the health of Halak), it's too late in the season - as soon as Halak is healthy, ride the hot hand again. I don't think that the coach is the main problem, Price can't give the team any confidence right now, he's in a mjor slump and I doubt that he'll regain his form any time soon.

[Helmethead]

The GM says what he has to say to the press. I have no doubt he made every effort to acquire what we need.

Carbo, on the other hand...

I like Carbo. I always have. When he first came here, he struck me as the kind of coach who could really pull this team together and send us flying forward. However, I'm at the point where I can say that Carbo is just not our guy. We've had players improving steadily, guys getting more and more mature, and still we have absolutely no clue in the defensive zone. You can argue all you want about the players not buying in - I completely disagree. There comes a point where you have to take a step back and ask why the same things continually happen. Sure, there are a lot of things that can be dealt with through personnel moves alone, but the overall picture of the club?

Last season everyone was talking about how we had a dream season. Then we started this year the same way; everything looked rosy in the sky. Does anyone here recall *how* we did so well last season and early this year? We stole games because of one or two players, because we were lucky quite often. The bottom line is that our record last season was very flattering, and our record early this season was astoundingly flattering.

We allow more rubber to hit our goalies than Circuit Gilles Villeneuve allows to hit its tarmac. We offer up the blueline to attackers like a 14-year old buying his first hooker. Our defensive zone coverage is closer to chickens with a fox in the coop than it is anything cohesive. The few times when he manages to get everyone on board for a game, we actually look semi-reasonable, but even in those games, there are significant mental breakdowns.

And now everyone and their dog is talking about how its the players that suck: Price is horrid and looks defeated after the first goal; Komisarek is Captain Giveaway; Kovalev is Valium with a stick. When we hear soundbytes from unhappy players in the dressing room, and particularly from people who've been moved to other cities, they're always *always* saying they don't know what is expected of them. Excuse me? If that isn't crystal clear, then this team doesn't have leadership problems on the ice, it doesn't have an inability to score goals, and it doesn't have the defensive wherewithall to succeed, no. If that isn't so clear you can see the bottom of the deep, blue sea, then what the hell is going on with the coach?

You don't know what you're supposed to be doing?

I mean, we hear all the wonderful excuses: we're not executing; it's the players not doing their jobs. Well, if everyone KNEW their job to start, that would help. If a player doesn't have confidence that he even knows what is job is clearly, then how is he supposed to perform at the highest level? Answer: impossible.

Bob has done a brilliant job putting together a team with all the skill in the world and with more than enough defensive talent to win games on a very regular basis. Blaming Bob is the easy way out. Whup, players not performing; Bob brought them in, must be his fault.

I'm not at all on board with that. There *is* a giant leadership problem on this team, and it comes from the coach. Anticipated comeback for that comment: But Julien was the coach here and he didn't get the kind of results he's getting in Boston! Answer: Julien had a very young Komi - still going up and down to the farm, he had a Markov who couldn't speak English, he had more kids than a daycare - and was terrified to play them for fear of losing his job with losses, and he had three attitude problems which were promptly shipped out! Add to that the fact he now has had plenty more experience and has had tons of time to analyze and adapt to the mistakes he made in his *first* coaching job in the NHL, and it's fairly evident, at least to me, that Julien then and Julien now are two different things.

This team needs a Mike Keenan-type, pure and simple. We need a mean SOB who doesn't take any crap and makes these little buggers earn every single cent in their paycheck. We need someone who will hold EVERY player accountable, not just those he's not intimidated by.

If Bob Gainey has one major flaw, it's that he's married to Carbo. One gets the impression he's going to live or die with that decision, and sadly for us here in Montreal, it's looking more and more like a sinking, wallowing death. It's time for a coaching change in Montreal. Thanks for your service, Guy, we still love you here, but you just aren't cutting it behind the bench. Not by a long shot.

And to think that i was thiiiis close to not opening page #9 of the game thread.

Well said Colin. I think that the team SEVERLY lacks player leadership presence. However, when your team isn't showing any heart, you need to the coach to instill fear in everyone; and this clearly ain't happening. You can see it from Guy's body language during interviews. He's obviously too passive; too weak. Players sense this, and take advantage of it. Sometimes I find myself wishing that Carbo would blow up a la Therrien.

It seems that these guys aren't mature enough to have a coach. They need a mean ass babysitter. Preferably one that spanks them instead of giving them a "time out."

Edited March 5, 2009 by Helmethead

[bombTHEice]

Well said Colin. I think that the team SEVERLY lacks player leadership presence. However, when your team isn't showing any heart, you need to the coach to instill fear in everyone; and this clearly ain't happening. You can see it from Guy's body language during interviews. Sometimes I find myself "wishing" that Carbo would blow up a la Therrien.

You mean, blow it up like this ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agL3NHgb8Rk

Seems like he's as emotional as Guy at interviews ...

[Prime Minister Koivu]

I really doubt that Bob will fire Carbo.

He should, he needs to but he won't.

If we miss the playoffs Gainey should be replaced.

[Sir_Boagalott]

Yea, we allow tons of rubber every night but somehow Halak seems to have no problem with it and keeps winning - Price simply not. Tonight we even had more shots than the Sabres and still Price manged to surrender another 5 goals. He simply isn't on his game. I only hope that Halak will be ready to go vs. the Trashers - it's not the best time right now to give Price time to regain his form (although there wasn't another opportunity due to the health of Halak), it's too late in the season

I agree with what you said except whats in bold. I'm pretty sure Denis would agree with me.

After all a 5 GAA shoulnt be to hard to beat.

I think that the team SEVERLY lacks player leadership presence.

Gary Roberts is a true leader who plays with lots heart and he hates loosing. The Habs really do need more players like that. He may be old but the Habs could have used him because his strong desire to win the Cup again would ruboff on the youngsters. He would make them aware of how special it is to have just a shot at it. This year the Habs are the only team ever to have a shot at winning the Cup on their teams 100th ani and they seem to be throwing it away at times.

[johnnyhasbeen]

We have no idea what we are doing out there! Yep, fire the coach! But wait, it is in our end we suck, fire the defensive coach too! No hold it, Price stinks, Theo stunk...hmmm Fire the goalie coach! Hang on a scond here, Boston is losing games now, Fire their coach too! ( actually Boston is losing because they are nowhere near as good as they played in the first 3/4 of the season, and it wasn't the coach that coached them to that, bounces, luck, flukey goaltending...) Q: How can a player make the NHL and ot know what his job is out there? It is a simple game of position. If you don't know what to do in your position you are not a good player! Players saying I stunk before the traded me because the coach doesn't define my role are as common as pennies on the ground at a drive thru window. Blame someone else, I am great! Bah!

I said before I took a nice long sit back here that I would not bet my future on Price or the kid in Columbus if I was them either. When Mason stumbles next season they will regret letting LeClair go. Young goalies get hot and cold, they are still growing into their bodies and more than any possition goaltnding requires mental maturity.Although some seem to show early maturity fact is that is only a mask. I won't judge a goalie until his late twenties, but Price to me is a perfect example of a young goalie who should be sent to the pine for the remainder of the season (only because I am sure he can't be sent down) and start next year in the AHL. He is not ready and has never shown any consistancy at the NHL level. He was hot for a while, so were countless other nameless goalies. He thinks in his immature mind that he is a star, because people with palm pilots voted him to be one and every chicky says so. I have never seen any consistancy in his play, just hot streaks, and real cold ones. I think if I was Bob he would have been gone yesterday. His stock is way over rated.

If Price hadn't stunk we would have won last night. The team came out flying, but Price stunk and they quit on him. Yes. it is true nobody came to his aid when he was elbowed. Why would they? Nobody thinks he desearves the rank he has been given. If you are the savior, stop a puck or two! When did Price last win us a game by which I mean steal one? If that was Jaro they would have jumped to his aid. They have been over the last while. The team is comfortably with him in nets, feel they can win. They don't think Halak is a star that can be left on his own and win games. I remember a bunch of you feeling we need to save evey bit of cap space down the road to sign this sieve. Glad Bob doesn't sign as quick as some of you would!

If Halak isn't ready for Atlanta, start Denis, or that goalie you strap to the posts even. At least it isn't out of position on his knees like a ... on pay day. Price is not an NHL goalie at this point in his carreer, and his teammates know it! The coach didn't let those soft goals in last night. Nice finger of blame. Scotty Bowman on the bench can't stop a goalie from sucking!

Edited March 5, 2009 by johnnyhasbeen

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Laraque is really starting to piss me off. He doesn't skate or hit or do anything unless the puck happens to be where he is.

Useless - it is a shame he has an injury.

[Habitforming]

The entire first was ALL Montreal and the Late PP goal didn't seem to make an impact on the guys, but the game really changed after Dan Paille ran over Price without a call.

What happend to Laraque?

Is this guy made of glass or what?

[Prime Minister Koivu]

We have no idea what we are doing out there! Yep, fire the coach! But wait, it is in our end we suck, fire the defensive coach too! No hold it, Price stinks, Theo stunk...hmmm Fire the goalie coach! Hang on a scond here, Boston is losing games now, Fire their coach too! ( actually Boston is losing because they are nowhere near as good as they played in the first 3/4 of the season, and it wasn't the coach that coached them to that, bounces, luck, flukey goaltending...) Q: How can a player make the NHL and ot know what his job is out there? It is a simple game of position. If you don't know what to do in your position you are not a good player! Players saying I stunk before the traded me because the coach doesn't define my role are as common as pennies on the ground at a drive thru window. Blame someone else, I am great! Bah!

I said before I took a nice long sit back here that I would not bet my future on Price or the kid in Columbus if I was them either. When Mason stumbles next season they will regret letting LeClair go. Young goalies get hot and cold, they are still growing into their bodies and more than any possition goaltnding requires mental maturity.Although some seem to show early maturity fact is that is only a mask. I won't judge a goalie until his late twenties, but Price to me is a perfect example of a young goalie who should be sent to the pine for the remainder of the season (only because I am sure he can't be sent down) and start next year in the AHL. He is not ready and has never shown any consistancy at the NHL level. He was hot for a while, so were countless other nameless goalies. He thinks in his immature mind that he is a star, because people with palm pilots voted him to be one and every chicky says so. I have never seen any consistancy in his play, just hot streaks, and real cold ones. I think if I was Bob he would have been gone yesterday. His stock is way over rated.

If Price hadn't stunk we would have won last night. The team came out flying, but Price stunk and they quit on him. Yes. it is true nobody came to his aid when he was elbowed. Why would they? Nobody thinks he desearves the rank he has been given. If you are the savior, stop a puck or two! When did Price last win us a game by which I mean steal one? If that was Jaro they would have jumped to his aid. They have been over the last while. The team is comfortably with him in nets, feel they can win. They don't think Halak is a star that can be left on his own and win games. I remember a bunch of you feeling we need to save evey bit of cap space down the road to sign this sieve. Glad Bob doesn't sign as quick as some of you would!

If Halak isn't ready for Atlanta, start Denis, or that goalie you strap to the posts even. At least it isn't out of position on his knees like a ... on pay day. Price is not an NHL goalie at this point in his carreer, and his teammates know it! The coach didn't let those soft goals in last night. Nice finger of blame. Scotty Bowman on the bench can't stop a goalie from sucking!

How can our defense be so terrible for so many games? Look at our defensemen...on paper they are all great or good. How can this group of great or good defensemen run around like they have no effing clue what they are doing game after game, after game?

We don't have a defense coach. That is Gainey's mistake and problem.

Our defense was brutal last night - AGAIN.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

The entire first was ALL Montreal and the Late PP goal didn't seem to make an impact on the guys, but the game really changed after Dan Paille ran over Price without a call.

What happend to Laraque?

Is this guy made of glass or what?

I forgot about that.

I lost my mind watching it. Nobody cared on our team. Nobody did a damn thing. Paille should have been mobbed and beaten senseless - penalties or no penalties.

A group of individuals who don't give a crap about anyone but themselves.

[johnnyhasbeen]

How can our defense be so terrible for so many games? Look at our defensemen...on paper they are all great or good. How can this group of great or good defensemen run around like they have no effing clue what they are doing game after game, after game?

We don't have a defense coach. That is Gainey's mistake and problem.

Our defense was brutal last night - AGAIN.

True, but at this point in their carreers shouldn't they know what they are doing without coaching? At least to the point of not totally sucking anyway. I don't think we had a defensive coach under Bowman, but I maybe mistaken. This isn't football where you always have one.

Regardless of how bad the defense was, Price stunk, from the get go. He has no clue how to goaltend at this level and shows that every outing. He is down early, doesn't just go down, but slides out on his knees like a peewee goalie. That shows he is too deep in his net, hiding.There is no control in his movements. He stinks, plain and simply. You watch successful butterfly goalies, they drop into a butterfly, not slide into one. He puts himself off balance and out of position on almost every shot he takes. He is clueless in there and should not be in the NHL at this time.ECHL maybe, but even there, sliding around like that they will light him up. If he is going to play butterfly he should learn the technique. It requires positioning and control. You can't throw yourself 5 feet on your knees and expect to get back into position for the next shot. I know I am not the only goalie/exgoalie on this site and you guys know what I mean. He is throwing himself at pucks and waving as they go by. That is what we in the field call a sieve. Demote him if possible, bench him at least. If Halak is healthy, keep Denis up and make Price a healthy scratch. He isn't worth the Price of his plane ticket! I know, he is toted as being the next best thing. So was Racicot! The vast majority of kids who are excellent Jr goalies can't make the jump. Sometimes even star Jr goalies can't. I am starting to believe that is the case here, although like I said, I will save final judgement until he is a full grown man.

If anyone of our players had made as many mistakes or played as poorly as he has this year, not one person would defend him. I will not defend a p-poor goaltender. He may have it in him to one day be an NHL goalie. He isn't one at this point. He is a sieve and ever team we play is real happy when we start him. Our team isn't. They have no confidence in him and it shows by the effort they put out in front of him. The 76/77 team couldn't have won with that much suckage in nets.

[HABBER-oooooKNOWS]

First, thanks.

Second, you can add Vigneault to that list of great coaches. He had the superstars Johan Witehall and Juha Lind on his Habs squad.

Third, we should have made a move for Tortorella at the very least. He may not be French enough for the media, but you don't need to really understand when all the coach does is yell and scream and cuss at his players for not playing. Maybe Hitchcock will be fired and Bob can bring him here. Lemaire would have us playing boring-to-death hockey - and we'd have a Cup with this talented lot within two years.

Good arguments by everyone, I suppose. Since Gainey said a few months back the best thing he did in his years in Montreal was hire Carbo then I'm going to believe Gainey, that is not the problem. I wish Gainey would coach again actually.

For now I'm accepting our fate on this 100th anniversary. The team will be blown up and look completely different next year..........and guess what Carbo will still be here.

You guys are right though, should he be fired now....HE WILL re-surface somewhere and you'll all cry how Gainey was stupid to let him go.

Funny how all former Habs do well when they leave, and then blow chunks when they have a chance to come back. From Gainey to Theo, Ribs and Carbo himself add to that pretty much everyone in-between.

Maybe the problem is Montreal? A city where the pressure is really high and one with money can live like a rockstar. Where everything is magnified down to the cells that make up a players body. My bets are there. While it's the best place to be when winning, it's the worst when losing.

Can't say the players or the coach function at their best in that city, that's for sure. A losing streak in Montreal probably takes years off these guys lives let alone confidence vs desire.

Edited March 5, 2009 by HABBER-oooooKNOWS