Permanent Rumour Thread

[dlbalr]

Mr. Ek is reporting that 2 more deals may be done soon and, in another article, claims the Habs are 1 of 5 teams on the verge of acquiring Ray Whitney. Of course, Whitney wouldn't work cap wise.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Metro, Lapierre, Weber and D'Agostini for Frolov is done according to:

http://twitter.com/Vestiaire

Elliotte Friedman is a poster on his site so is David Pagnotta from the fourthperiod.com

I'm not sure how significant it is with how relevant or reliable tweets are. But Frolov is starting to pop up everywhere.

Now all we need is Dreger to post so I can truly believe it. Frolov is this years Lecavalier

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Metro, Lapierre, Weber and D'Agostini for Frolov is done according to:

http://twitter.com/Vestiaire

Elliotte Friedman is a poster on his site so is David Pagnotta from the fourthperiod.com

I'm not sure how significant it is with how relevant or reliable tweets are. But Frolov is starting to pop up everywhere.

Now all we need is Dreger to post so I can truly believe it. Frolov is this years Lecavalier

Well, Gainey was pretty good about keeping things quiet. Gauthier may not be. So these rumours may be well-founded.

I don't like losing Lapierre or Weber. Frolov is a 30-goal scorer, and still young enough, so if he can be signed then I guess it's a decent deal despite his questionable rep.

[Colin]

Metro, Lapierre, Weber and D'Agostini for Frolov is done according to:

http://twitter.com/Vestiaire

Elliotte Friedman is a poster on his site so is David Pagnotta from the fourthperiod.com

I'm not sure how significant it is with how relevant or reliable tweets are. But Frolov is starting to pop up everywhere.

Now all we need is Dreger to post so I can truly believe it. Frolov is this years Lecavalier

4 parts for an impact player. Makes the Moore deal understandable. I wouldn't mind that deal.

[hab29RETIRED]

Metro, Lapierre, Weber and D'Agostini for Frolov is done according to:

http://twitter.com/Vestiaire

Elliotte Friedman is a poster on his site so is David Pagnotta from the fourthperiod.com

I'm not sure how significant it is with how relevant or reliable tweets are. But Frolov is starting to pop up everywhere.

Now all we need is Dreger to post so I can truly believe it. Frolov is this years Lecavalier

So we are picking up more salary and dumping our young, cheap talent.

We need to move our high ticket contracts and instead are picking up a UFA who is going to want more to resign. The priority has to be resigning pleks and moving Gomez and hammer.

Next year we face the same ufa issue with ak46 and then markov after that.

Does anyone on the mgmt understand how to build a team in the cap world.

Well, Gainey was pretty good about keeping things quiet. Gauthier may not be. So these rumours may be well-founded.

I don't like losing Lapierre or Weber. Frolov is a 30-goal scorer, and still young enough, so if he can be signed then I guess it's a decent deal despite his questionable rep.

How can we resign him without moving our high priced contracts???

[Fanpuck33]

I don't like losing Lapierre or Weber. Frolov is a 30-goal scorer, and still young enough, so if he can be signed then I guess it's a decent deal despite his questionable rep.

Yeah, if we can manage to keep him around and not have it affect keeping Plekanec, it's a great deal. I like Laps, but something hasn't been right about him since last year. D'Agostini will likely be a mediocre 2nd liner at best. Metropolit is nice, but nothing special. Weber hurts a little bit, but we aren't going to realistically keep all three of Weber, Subban, and Carle for the long term, IMO.

Of course, we'll likely make the trade and then not be able to keep both Frolov and Pleky, haha.

[lazy26]

Metro, Lapierre, Weber and D'Agostini for Frolov is done according to:

http://twitter.com/Vestiaire

Elliotte Friedman is a poster on his site so is David Pagnotta from the fourthperiod.com

I'm not sure how significant it is with how relevant or reliable tweets are. But Frolov is starting to pop up everywhere.

Now all we need is Dreger to post so I can truly believe it. Frolov is this years Lecavalier

Almost the same salary going back and forth. (although weber's hit is in the minors)

[dlbalr]

Metro, Lapierre, Weber and D'Agostini for Frolov is done according to:

http://twitter.com/Vestiaire

Elliotte Friedman is a poster on his site so is David Pagnotta from the fourthperiod.com

I'm not sure how significant it is with how relevant or reliable tweets are. But Frolov is starting to pop up everywhere.

Now all we need is Dreger to post so I can truly believe it. Frolov is this years Lecavalier

4 for 1 deal? Doesn't make a lot of sense for LA, a team fairly deep in depth to begin with.

[Colin]

4 for 1 deal? Doesn't make a lot of sense for LA, a team fairly deep in depth to begin with.

4 reasonable parts for a UFA? I like that deal for them. I only like it for us if Frolov is resigned.

[dlbalr]

4 reasonable parts for a UFA? I like that deal for them. I only like it for us if Frolov is resigned.

Technically, 3 as Metropolit's a UFA as well. D'Agostini has limited value making it Weber/Lapierre for Frolov. Decent for them...if they can find room for those two.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

I wonder just how serious LA truly wants to keep Frolov. On one hand it's true that LA wouldn't let him go complete the Kovalchuk deal. But it's also no secret that the organization has had issues with him and he's likely gone as a UFA when it comes up.

That's a contradiction and it I could definitely see Frolov moved before tomorrow. But it might not be to Montreal.

Who knows?

Edited February 12, 2010 by Athlétique.Canadien

[saskhab]

David Pagnotta is at tonight's Oilers/Kings game. Says it's loaded with scouts... 15 scouts from 12 different NHL teams. Not a habs scout in the house!

[hab29RETIRED]

David Pagnotta is at tonight's Oilers/Kings game. Says it's loaded with scouts... 15 scouts from 12 different NHL teams. Not a habs scout in the house!

If frolov was a done deal, i can't see LAK keeping him in the lineup. It happened with Joikinin, but Sutter is an idiot.

[ForumGhost]

From Eklund so take it for what it's worth:

Updated at 8:18: Montreal is not yet done I am told I don't have any specific details yet, only to say I was told this is "first of three, and one more could come tonight or tomorrow." may get more.

[hab29RETIRED]

From Eklund so take it for what it's worth:

Updated at 8:18: Montreal is not yet done I am told I don't have any specific details yet, only to say I was told this is "first of three, and one more could come tonight or tomorrow." may get more.

I don't know how they can make a big 3-4 player trade, when they got a big back to back weekend against a conference rival that they are battling for. If you take 3 guys out of the lineup (not including weber if the frolov rumour is true), do you play under-manned in 2 key games before the break??

Aside for paying so much for Moore, I also don't get the timing of the move. Unless Moore was going to be involved in the subsequent trades, why wouldn't you make your big move first??? It's not like somene is going offer more for Moore???

Funny I'm just just listening to sportsnet and they can't understand how much the habs paid for Moore. How do idiot clueless GM's get hired and keep their jobs when everyone else can see how stupid of a move they are making??

Edited February 12, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[Habsy]

I don't know how they can make a big 3-4 player trade, when they got a big back to back weekend against a conference rival that they are battling for. If you take 3 guys out of the lineup (not including weber if the frolov rumour is true), do you play under-manned in 2 key games before the break??

Aside for paying so much for Moore, I also don't get the timing of the move. Unless Moore was going to be involved in the subsequent trades, why wouldn't you make your big move first??? It's not like somene is going offer more for Moore???

Funny I'm just just listening to sportsnet and they can't understand how much the habs paid for Moore. How do idiot clueless GM's get hired and keep their jobs when everyone else can see how stupid of a move they are making??

I guess we're in worse shape now, than we were last week. I don't recall you ever calling Bob an idiot and clueless. Is it just me, or do we seem to have alot of 3rd and 4th liners? Maybe we're about to get rid of some, for draft picks. Moore is supposed to be good in the faceoff circle, our centers are not. Does he address that weakness, it did result directly in a powerplay goal for the Capitals. I'm confused though, as we look bad AGAIN at trading.

[hab29RETIRED]

I guess we're in worse shape now, than we were last week. I don't recall you ever calling Bob an idiot and clueless. Is it just me, or do we seem to have alot of 3rd and 4th liners? Maybe we're about to get rid of some, for draft picks. Moore is supposed to be good in the faceoff circle, our centers are not. Does he address that weakness, it did result directly in a powerplay goal for the Capitals. I'm confused though, as we look bad AGAIN at trading.

Yep. I'm not questioning that Moore wouldn't help in the faceoff circle. We may even recover the 2nd round pick in further trades.

But there are a number of things that don't make sense.

1) EVERYONE thinks a 2nd rounder was too high of a price to pay. Moore is not having a good season and is a UFA. IF he was at least signed beyond this season, it may even be worth it.

2) Overpaying would have made sense if he was a depth move for a club that is a contender and is missing depth at the center position, so they may be willing to overpay. We are not in that position.

3) If this is precursor, for another trade that includes Moore in a package and are looking at moving 2-3 other regulars, considering the back to back games against key playoff implication games against Philly, you would want to compelte the other deals tonight, so you can have fresh bodies in for tomorrow. That doesn't appear to te the case.

4) If this is a precurser for a trade that doesn't include Moore, why wouldn't you make the key or bigger trade first - same reason as 3 - to ensure we aren't undermanned tomorrow, when we are already missing so many guys to injuries.

5) The habs ARE NOT contenders. Gauthier should have four goals.

i -Resign Pleks.

ii- Hang on to both goalies for next year (unless someone makes an offer you can't refuse - and I don't mean a Don Corleone offer made with a gun pointed at Gauthier )

iii- fix the cap situation - to me that can only be done by moving Gomez, Hammer and Spacek (I still don't like having a guy over 35 signed for an over-age contract when the habs are going to be up against the cap)

iv-Move some of your older assets or waivable assets that probably don't fit into future plans. The objective should be to pickup picks or youth to build for next year- to me that means moving Metro, Mara, Dags

I know all year people have been saying to move SK74 and there are still rumours now. I didn't agree then and don't agree now. You don't move a guy his age. Same thing for Ak46. He is a free agent next year. I would try and give SK74 every chance to stay on the top lines, get secondary PP time (which for some reason Martin refuses to do), and keep SK74 happy, so that it may factor in to make it easier to resign AK46.

The guys that the habs should be identifying as their core for next year are:

Goal: Halak/Price

Defencemen: Markov/Gorges/O'Byrne/Gill - in the summer pick up a good SOLID defensive dman to help mentor guys like Subban and give guys like Carle a LONG look at camp. If it looks like Gill or Gorges are expandable, you can move them. But both are serviceble bottom end d-man. I'm also assuming that O'Byrne continues to progress.

Centre: Pleks, I hate to move Pouliot back to center given his success at the wing, but I think we potentially have some good wingers, so lets see if Pouliot can take Gomez's positon. The other option would be to keep Pouliot on the wing and see if Cammy can play center. For the 3rd line center, send Laps home in the summer with clear instructions what the expectations are for next year, if he doesn't get a good start and have a good attitutude next year - you cut him loose. Unless Laps falters, you promote someone from Hamilton to the 4th center position

Wings: I 'd like to see AK46/SK74/Cammy/Gionta as our top 4 wingers. If MaxPax is progressing have him and a guy like Deshanrais play with Laps (get a kid scoring line going). Have Moen/White on the 4th line.

IF you can resign Pleks and the goalies AND pick up a good SOLID vetern D-man AND still have money for a decent centre, then I'd pick up another forward. BUt lets face it, most of the issues this year were on D. We need a TRUE #2/#3 that fits our cap. Hammer was great for most of the year and Spacek at times has been very good. However, Hammer eats up to much cap room and Spacek's age scares me - from what I understand of the CBA, since he was signed to a multi-year deal when he was over 35, the Habs are stuck with his contract regardless if he is injured or ends up having to retire.

It seems like for most of the last 15 years the habs lineup has been filled with 3/4th liners and bottom pairing dman. The majority of the trades or signings seemed to be for bottom end talent. That has to end. We need to develop young players to come up in those positions. They are cheap and in a salary cap world, you need to fill you lineup with cheap guys that can play those roles. The problem with the habs is that they have been overpaying guys to play fringe roles for far too long.

Edited February 12, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[JoeLassister]

Fair enough. But I'd say that keeping both Halak and Price is not even healthy for this team. Having 1 unhappy goalie is crap, not to mention having both unhappy... I say use a 2nd pick to get a veteran 2nd goalie who won't mind sitting for 7 games in a row.

Oh wait... It's just in, 2nds bring shit.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

You know, I'm just spitballing, but if these Frolov rumours are true, I think maybe Gauthier's thought process is as follows: this team is not actually *too far* from being a contender. It just needs another top-6 impact forward and another top-4 defenceman or at least a #5-6 D-man who can step up and run the powerplay, and maybe a more veteran presence at C on the bottom 6 who can win faceoffs. Hey presto, add Frolov, Subban, and Moore. Eventually we get back Kostitsyn and Pouliot and Cammalleri. Refreshed and reinforced, the team barrels into the playoffs and makes an unexpectedly strong run.

I think this is fanciful at best. All I'm hypothesizing is that it might actually be the thought process. (Admittedly, a top-6 of Gomez, Pleks, Kostitysn, Cammy, Gionta, Frolov, and supplemented by Pouliot does sound pretty sold).

[sakiqc]

there are Frolov to Montreal "rumours" 3 years old in this very topic (search for frolov in the topic search box just below this post). We also have a thread here dating back to 2003 about Frolov (for Mathieu Garon). Frolov to Montreal trade ideas are probably the ones that have always seem to make the most sense. That's why I think those ideas were believed to be real. I'd give the 2 K brothers in a heart beat. But as for rumours I won't believe it till I see it.

[JoeLassister]

Am I the only one who think that Andrei is better than Frolov ??

[saskhab]

Am I the only one who think that Andrei is better than Frolov ??

He's not, but he's basically as good. Throwing Sergei on top of that is vast overpayment, as even if you re-sign Frolov, it'll probably cost $4.5m or so, which is more than what Andrei makes.

Frolov is a right shooting winger, Andrei is a left. That's about the main difference between them.

[KEEP26]

Well iam off today so i guess its going to be along day hoping this GM can make a good move.... iam still not happy with a 2nd rounder for moore..iam just glad i didnt have to listen to the T O fans at work today....

[hab29RETIRED]

He's not, but he's basically as good. Throwing Sergei on top of that is vast overpayment, as even if you re-sign Frolov, it'll probably cost $4.5m or so, which is more than what Andrei makes.

Frolov is a right shooting winger, Andrei is a left. That's about the main difference between them.

+1

actualy $4.5m is more then what Andrei AND Sergei make.

Two years ago I thought SK74 can be a better player then AK46 and I still believe that. This year AK was starting to show he can be a dominating scorer, while SK has shown flashes of being an elite playmaker AND a solid PK guy. I wish Martin would give him a regular oppertunity on the PP.

[hab29RETIRED]

Fair enough. But I'd say that keeping both Halak and Price is not even healthy for this team. Having 1 unhappy goalie is crap, not to mention having both unhappy... I say use a 2nd pick to get a veteran 2nd goalie who won't mind sitting for 7 games in a row.

Oh wait... It's just in, 2nds bring shit.

If the Hans were to move Halak, there would be a real backlash against Price - and I really don't know if he is up to the challenge of being able to succes being able to handle that kind of pressure.

On the flip side I think Price is a guy who would instantly find his game if he was to get out of the Montreal fishbowl.

I'd rather see how Halak does in the playoffs and then give them equal time for the first half of next year. You could also see if either goalie gets an offer sheet, in which we would get more then the lousy 2nd rounder we got for Huet.

The only way I'd move either goalie at this stage is if we were offered a deal that was too good to turn down.